quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
And it kicks off in Namibia:

Herewith are the contents of an official letter from the Namibian Ministry of Environment & Tourism signed by the Minister Pohamba Shifeta:

"....requests all hunters with valid hunting permits to refrain from posting photographs of dead animals taken during hunting expeditions on social media.
This practice is not only unethical but also tarnishes the image of the well regulated Namibian hunting industry.
Consequently the Ministry has now introduced a new permit condition, to prohibit hunters with valid permits not to post or send photographs on public platforms but to just take photographs for their own use in their private capacities.
The Ministry kindly requests that this new condition is adhered to at all times."

This directive now also opens the door to prosecution for those hunters who defy the Ministerial order and authorities such as USF&W are likely too pounce on this announcement as a tool for legal action against hunters in the US.

quote:

CHC - Some say that it's defeatism to slow down on the Social Media postings while others say it's survival in a mass media world.

It's the proverbial glass half empty/half full debate and there are not correct answers. So the hunting community will continue to be fragmented on the issue and that unfortunately does not help either.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I don't like any government telling me not to do something that is properly within my discretion as a free human being.

That said, what the Namibian government is doing in this case is only requesting that we refrain from defying the dictates of common sense.

Not a problem AFAIC.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I would love to see the Namibian government sue foreign hunters in their own countries just because they have posted photos of hunts they had legally been part off!

May be hunters should start telling the Namibian government to take a bloody hike, and go hunt somewhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

I doubt they will sue foreign hunters but more like taking it out on the resident outfitters who would be expected to notify their clients of the ministerial request and in a way would be held responsible for the actions of their clients.

The Namibian authorities could however voice their complaints to and demand the USF&W to take action and it could affect those hunters who are subject to reprisals in their own country which endorses the Lacey Act.

Food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by royal27:
+3


The interesting thing in this whole photo ban mess isn't that some government functionary signed it. Governments do stupid stuff all the time, look at USFWS....

What's shocking is that NAPHA supports the move and has come out with a press statement saying they do. NAPHA is either extremely misguided and is using a Chamberlain type appeasement strategy, or there is something else in it for them. I'm not sure exactly what, but would bet financial gain is involved.

And am I the only one that finds it strange that NAPHA members have been publicly silent on this issue, both for and against? I haven't seen a single comment. You'd think this issue would stir some things up with outfitters as well, but it hasn't.... Why?

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I would love to see the Namibian government sue foreign hunters in their own countries just because they have posted photos of hunts they had legally been part off!

May be hunters should start telling the Namibian government to take a bloody hike, and go hunt somewhere else.

I doubt they will sue foreign hunters but more like taking it out on the resident outfitters who would be expected to notify their clients of the ministerial request and in a way would be held responsible for the actions of their clients.

The Namibian authorities could however voice their complaints to and demand the USF&W to take action and it could affect those hunters who are subject to reprisals in their own country which endorses the Lacey Act.

Food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I am sure the minister has nothing against a hunter showing the photos to their friends.The problem is anti hunting groups are taking these photos and posting them everywhere around the world, along with a anti hunting message or a one way take on what is going on.Then the governments are pressured to stop hunting-something that is not in their benefit neither the wild animals.

Great post George.
It could be good advice.I don't think the "I will not hide" or "I couldn't care less" attitude will serve us best.Wouldn't posting pics on social media be like going into a high crime neighbourhood and flashing money or jewelry?

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I am sure the minister has nothing against a hunter showing the photos to their friends.The problem is anti hunting groups are taking these photos and posting them everywhere around the world, along with a anti hunting message or a one way take on what is going on.Then the governments are pressured to stop hunting-something that is not in their benefit neither the wild animals.

It could be good advice.I don't think the "I will not hide" or "I couldn't care less" attitude will serve us best.Wouldn't posting pics on social media be like going into a high crime neighbourhood and flashing money or jewelry?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think we all need to realize that poorly thought out use of social media has done more to damage our sport than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:

quote:

Originally posted by royal27:
+3


The interesting thing in this whole photo ban mess isn't that some government functionary signed it. Governments do stupid stuff all the time, look at USFWS....

What's shocking is that NAPHA supports the move and has come out with a press statement saying they do. NAPHA is either extremely misguided and is using a Chamberlain type appeasement strategy, or there is something else in it for them. I'm not sure exactly what, but would bet financial gain is involved.

And am I the only one that finds it strange that NAPHA members have been publicly silent on this issue, both for and against? I haven't seen a single comment. You'd think this issue would stir some things up with outfitters as well, but it hasn't.... Why?

Dear Royal27

I'm a Napha member and has been for the last 20 years and I can assure you that not all of us are in favor of this, including myself. I just want to clarify, I'm not representing Napha on this group and the posts I make are my own opinions.

We do have to be careful here as it is a very sensitive topic. We've had several heated discussions over here the past week since the release was made by Mr.Shifeta. What we've learned from past experiences is that we should try to handle situations like this in house, as soon as it hits forums and social media, it makes it extremely difficult to come up with a workable solution. It might be the reason why no one in Namibia is willing to comment at this point. Please allow us time to process this and work on it as an industry first and I'm sure we will come up with the best way forward. Mr. Shifeta is a very respected man and has in the past always supported our industry. He is always open for deliberation and it is of utmost importance that we keep an open door policy with him. The Namibian economy needs the hunting industry but more important our wildlife as well, to stop supporting Namibia's hunting industry to spite our government would in effect mean the end of the "Game" for our lovely country.


Kind Regards to all and good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Amazing how even the AR forum is so divided on this topic. I take a lot of pics; a lot. I will continue to post them. social media is what it is. I get different people want different things. I have friends who are not for or against hunting asking questions and posting comments. I get negative comments and positive comments. I thought Namibia was a very pro hunting country so I will watch how this plays out. There are some many places to go and hunt at that if I need to go to another country so be it. I will not sign an agreement or buy a license stating I cannot post my pictures online. I will just simply go elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:
Some of the effects from such postings:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lFqrkj2NYg

https://www.change.org/p/aaron...-lions-we-say-enough

https://archives.sfweekly.com/...s-dead-animal-photos

https://www.salon.com/2015/08/..._you_very_seriously/

https://www.boiseweekly.com/bo.../Content?oid=3552965

https://www.forbes.com/sites/d...d-in-king-of-beasts/

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/529735974895292808

https://www.capitalgrio.com/si...affe-is-poacher.html



*******************
The boyfriend of a huntress who sparked outrage by posing for photos next to a dead giraffe after Cecil the lion was killed is a convicted poacher, MailOnline can reveal.

Sabrina Corgatelli taunted the world by posting pictures of her ‘trophy kills’ in the wake of the global revulsion around Cecil’s death at the hands of U.S. dentist Walter Palmer.

Telling her haters to ‘bring it on’, Sabrina posted the photo of her draped around a giraffe corpse with the caption: 'I couldn't be any happier!! My emotion after getting him was a feeling I will never forget!!!'


Hunter: In response to the outrage sparked by photos like this one of Aaron Neilson, 43, with the corpse of a lion, he told MailOnline 'Hunting is still the best conservation tool we have throughout much of wild Africa'


Huntress: Sabrina Corgatelli posted this picture of herself with a dead giraffe. It sparked a stream of obscene and disparaging comments accusing her of animal abuse and heartlessness


Proof: Documents from Yuma County court, Colorado, show Neilson pleaded guilty to unlawful hunting of whitetail buck in 1995. He also admitted obtaining a signature by deception and second-degree forgery

Her boyfriend Aaron Neilson is a hunter who has posed with 15 lion kill 'trophies' and helped his clients hunt 'dozens’ more, defends his right to hunt legally.

But MailOnline can reveal that Neilson, 43, a father of one from Colorado, has been convicted of poaching.

Prosecution court papers obtained from Yuma County court in Colorado show he pleaded guilty to unlawful hunting of whitetail buck on private property in 1995.

Then, 23, Neilson also admitted obtaining a signature by deception and second-degree forgery.

His sentence was deferred for 24 months and the court ordered him to pay $1,500 dollars to the Colorado Division of Wildlife’s ‘Operation Game Thief’ – which offers rewards to people who report poachers.

He was also ordered not to hunt or fish in Colorado for two years.

There is no suggestion he has committed similar offences since then.

Neilson, who has been hunting for more than 20 years, claims to have 'developed a reputation in the safari hunting industry as one of the leading experts on the African Lion'.


Wildlife: As this picture shows, not all of the animals Neilson have hunted were in Africa. This image reveals how he persues his controversial passtime in the Arctic



Goading: One Facebook user told Sabrina Corgatelli: 'You could take me hunting anytime'. She is complemented not only on her looks but her hunting skills on social media

'Few agents can match his experience or expertise when it comes to the King of Beasts, or African hunting in general,' a statement on his website, reads.

His pictures prompted fury and led to a 100,000 signature petition calling for him to be banned from visiting some African countries and for his images to be removed from Facebook.

In response Neilson wrote: 'A little something special for my many thousands of Anti-Hunting Fans!

'They currently have three active petitions against me (just google it) apparently hoping numerous African countries will no longer allow me entry?

'Ya right, the guy who shows up with the money - to partake in a legal, ethical and widely supported activity within their country. I'm sure that's gonna happen?'

He posted the message alongside more photos of dead lions, which he told people to 'enjoy'.

In an interview in August, Neilson, who also hosts TV series ‘Trijicon's World of Sports Afield’, told American news channel ABC: 'Hunting absolutely is the only tool right now that’s paying for the vast majority of the wildlife conservation throughout the continent of Africa...

'We might take a small surplus of [lions], but without what we’re doing there won’t be any of them at all.'

This is something disputed by some wildlife organisations, and the idea that trophy hunting benefits animals has been branded a 'fantasy'.

Lion killer: Corgatelli and Neilson (third from right) are pictured posing over a slain lion. Doctor Pieter Kat, director of the charity Lion Aid, said: 'Why anyone would want to shoot a single lion to deliver to a taxidermist is puzzling, but to want to go back time and again to eventually have 15 stuffed lions in their trophy room is incomprehensible'

Bloody: Doctor Pieter Kat, director of Lion Aid, questioned how the actions in these pictures could have anything to do with lion conservation

Doctor Pieter Kat, director of the charity Lion Aid, told MailOnline: 'Aaron Nielsen recently returned from Africa with his 14th and 15th lion trophy safely deposited at the taxidermist.

'Why anyone would want to shoot a single lion to deliver to a taxidermist is puzzling, but to want to go back time and again to eventually have 15 stuffed lions in their trophy room is incomprehensible.'

When confronted by MailOnline on his poaching conviction, Neilson said: 'As you can see it was a big mistake made by a young man in a new area of operation for the first time.

'Like most, I paid my debt to society and learned my lesson in life. To be accurate and factual, I poached nothing - I was not hunting, nor did I even have a hunting licence.'

He said the hunt he joined his girlfriend Miss Corgatelli on in July was inside a private reserve and that the tribal chief had granted permission for them to hunt.

Convicted: Doctor Pieter Kat, director of Lion Aid, believes Neilson has 'no respect whatsoever for wildlife'

Neilson said he has been on anti-poaching patrol in Zambia, adding: 'I've been shot at, I've held poachers at gunpoint, and I've seen the most repulsive example of indiscriminate mass poaching one could imagine.'

He claims 'hunters put their money where their mouths are' and contribute financially to lion conservation in Africa.

'Hunting is still the best conservation tool we have throughout much of wild Africa. In the case of conservation minded hunting - the theory of "sacrificing a few to save the many" is legitimate and working as it has for decades.

'Emotion and irrationality will not save Africa's wildlife. Only money, hard work, and persistence will do so.

'We as hunters want what anti-hunters want too, Africa's wildlife to live on and prosper forever.'

Addressing his hunting of 15 lions, he said: 'No one cares more for, loves or works harder to protect the king of beasts than do I and my hunting brothers and sisters.

Girlfriend: Corgatelli posted this picture of a wildebeest on her Facebook. One of her fans commented: 'That is a very big one young lady that is something to be proud of'

'To me, the lion is the most incredible creature on the planet and nothing I want to see more than his longevity.'

However he added: 'Wild lions don’t have names, they are not friends with Pumba and don’t dance around the campfire with others. They are fighters, they are killers, they have no feelings for the game they hunt and they take no prisoners.

They practice infanticide, and survival is their only goal. Stop humanising a wild animal, humans they are not.'

Tony - Just so I'm clear on this issue as you see it. You were "guilty" of the same thing (posting pics) that supposedly cost your son a job, but you have no problem continuing the spread (re-hashing) of inflammatory material that might cost others theirs? Your either foolish enough, or too ignorant to realize AR is also a social media platform, followed by many whom are not hunters, some even anti-hunters. Today alone Sabrina has received several threatening messages from antis relating to your posts above, noting that even her fellow hunters from AR seem willing to attack her, and lay claim to her supposed wrong doings. Despite the fact her hunt was 100% legal / ethical, etc, and really had nothing to do with me other than I won't stand for people attacking my family. Every time idiots like you dig up this issue, she not only gets threatening messages, her employer does too. Thankfully for her, he has more balls than you and informs her to be proud of her hunting heritage...rather than hiding from it like you propose.

Apparently the only examples (all 8 of them) that you can find of these dastardly deeds involve Sabrina and myself? This really is just a chicken-shit attempt at smearing me...which frankly I couldn't care less about - other than the fact that it then involves Sabrina who was simply proud of her very first African Safari, only a couple of days after the funeral of her younger brother! A continued attack she doesn't deserve, certainly not one that is often fanned by the likes of your dumbass! But you are obviously too stupid to recognize that!?

Face it Tony...you're a washed up "has been", who never really was! You play internet - keyboard warrior like a 20 something stuck in his mommy's basement, looking for any opportunity you can get to defame others in a pathetic attempt to bring relevance to your sorry existence! My personal issues have been aired here on AR several times before, and its always from the likes of you. Someone who's miserable with their own life, hoping for nothing more than an opportunity to slander others in an attempt to feel important....despite the fact your own success has never amounted to anything! If clowns like you spent half as much time trying to better yourselves as you do trying to perpetuate harm to others....you likely would be a lot more successful in life.

I completely agree with Aaron. This is not a closed society here and these pages get trolled every day. To post this is just an attempt to smear the guy.

Total BULLSHIT.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Amazing how even the AR forum is so divided on this topic. I take a lot of pics; a lot. I will continue to post them. social media is what it is. I get different people want different things. I have friends who are not for or against hunting asking questions and posting comments. I get negative comments and positive comments. I thought Namibia was a very pro hunting country so I will watch how this plays out. There are some many places to go and hunt at that if I need to go to another country so be it. I will not sign an agreement or buy a license stating I cannot post my pictures online. I will just simply go elsewhere.

That is the spirit my friend.

There is no way in hell this rule can be enforced.

As already mentioned, previously we had the Namibian government stand with hunters.

Now we seem to have a deranged idiot making stupid decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:

quote:

Originally posted by royal27:
+3


The interesting thing in this whole photo ban mess isn't that some government functionary signed it. Governments do stupid stuff all the time, look at USFWS....

What's shocking is that NAPHA supports the move and has come out with a press statement saying they do. NAPHA is either extremely misguided and is using a Chamberlain type appeasement strategy, or there is something else in it for them. I'm not sure exactly what, but would bet financial gain is involved.

And am I the only one that finds it strange that NAPHA members have been publicly silent on this issue, both for and against? I haven't seen a single comment. You'd think this issue would stir some things up with outfitters as well, but it hasn't.... Why?

Dear Royal27

I'm a Napha member and has been for the last 20 years and I can assure you that not all of us are in favor of this, including myself. I just want to clarify, I'm not representing Napha on this group and the posts I make are my own opinions.

We do have to be careful here as it is a very sensitive topic. We've had several heated discussions over here the past week since the release was made by Mr.Shifeta. What we've learned from past experiences is that we should try to handle situations like this in house, as soon as it hits forums and social media, it makes it extremely difficult to come up with a workable solution. It might be the reason why no one in Namibia is willing to comment at this point. Please allow us time to process this and work on it as an industry first and I'm sure we will come up with the best way forward. Mr. Shifeta is a very respected man and has in the past always supported our industry. He is always open for deliberation and it is of utmost importance that we keep an open door policy with him. The Namibian economy needs the hunting industry but more important our wildlife as well, to stop supporting Namibia's hunting industry to spite our government would in effect mean the end of the "Game" for our lovely country.


Kind Regards to all and good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I would love to see the Namibian government sue foreign hunters in their own countries just because they have posted photos of hunts they had legally been part off!

May be hunters should start telling the Namibian government to take a bloody hike, and go hunt somewhere else.

I doubt they will sue foreign hunters but more like taking it out on the resident outfitters who would be expected to notify their clients of the ministerial request and in a way would be held responsible for the actions of their clients.

The Namibian authorities could however voice their complaints to and demand the USF&W to take action and it could affect those hunters who are subject to reprisals in their own country which endorses the Lacey Act.

Food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
An updated for all who was concerned.

It has been a stressful week here in the Namibian hunting industry but after what I feel was a very successful action from all stakeholders. The following results was achieved this morning.
Thanks to all who has contributed including our very reasonable Minister Shifeta for listening and supporting our industry.


UPDATE ON SOCIAL MEDIA RESTRICTIONS ANNOUNCED MY MINISTER SHIFETA

Dear members, stakeholders and affiliates of NAPHA,

We are happy to announce that we have returned from a very constructive and positive meeting with the Minister and his office. Other stakeholders that attended were NACSO, NNF and WRN.

A summary of all the concerns and questions communicated to us by our members was presented to the Minister; as well as NAPHA’s proposal as to a way forward.

Herewith we can confirm that the implementation of the condition on the restriction of the posting of images of trophy animals on social media made by the Minister is for now on hold, until such time that the industry has reverted back with proposed guidelines for ethical marketing practices for the hunting community.

NAPHA has taken the lead in this initiative and has shared the below letter with the Minister with proposals which the Minister welcomed and acknowledged in good spirit. All stakeholders have agreed to work together and expand on these suggestions. We have also provided the Minister with a draft pamphlet with guidelines for social media advertising and posts. We suggested that this pamphlet be distributed at the airport, Air Namibia, NTB, MET and NAPHA offices, and would also accompany all hunting permits issued.