quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:
So, if anyone disagrees with how SCI does things, they're a "hater".

The same exact tactic the PC whacko left uses.

I didn't renew my membership last month. 'Tain't much, but my dollars are walkin'.

Just amazed that the 'haters' as you put it use every opportunity, even a thread about SCI entertainment of all things - to slip the boot in to a hunting organisation.

It's funny how hushed they are in the other thread about the Wildlife Consultative Forum.

As for disagreeing with SCI - I disagree with much of what they do - but none of the haters are ever interested in the details - they are only interested in generalisations and rhetoric.

quote:

I have some information recently obtained about how trophy hunting if viewed by the public. When I get in the office tomorrow, I will post copies. If you don't think those awards are a problem after seeing this information, nothing will convince you ever.

The problem with the public's perception of trophy hunting is they are misinformed.

1. Most people believe the meat isn't utilized.
2. They are unaware that hunting almost anywhere in the world today is regulated and sustainable.

You would never know it by the posts on this site, but SCI is not the only organization that presents awards to members for killing animals. Nor is its record book the world's only such book.

Others include:
Boone & Crockett Club.
Pope & Young Club.
Houston Safari Club.
Dallas Safari Club.
Grand Slam Club/Ovis.
The Wild Sheep Foundation.
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
National Wild Turkey Federation.
CIC.
Texas Trophy Hunters Association.

There are lots more, but these ten came to mind without research.

I purposely did not list the many PH and guides' associations that reward their members for the exceptional animals their clients kill.

Please don't call me an SCI cheerleader, because I am not. However, I do wonder why the awards program of one hunting organization is condemned on this site while similar programs of other groups are not.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

I do wonder why the awards program of one hunting organization is condemned on this site while similar programs of other groups are not.

. . . maybe because they publish an annual awards magazine that is almost 150 pages long that lists more than 60 different categories of awards . . . everything from an award for taking animals using multiple methods to an award for introduced species in North America. You name it, they have an award you can purchase.

Does anyone believe a B&C whitetail is the same as an SCI bronze metal whitetail?

Mike is right .

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Does anyone believe a B&C whitetail is the same as an SCI bronze metal whitetail?

Mike is right .

The other factor not being mentioned is the media/politically driven class warfare occurring in this country and worldwide via social media.

When I open Safari Magazine and look at the 50% ads, but more importantly what is advertised in a "hunting magazine", it's obvious that SCI has a brand developed for the international hunter.

That brand of scotch, martinis, jewelry, $50,000 rifles, and clothing with names I can't pronounce does little to endear us into the hearts of the whitetail/hog hunter let alone the uninformed non-hunting public.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:
So, if anyone disagrees with how SCI does things, they're a "hater".

The same exact tactic the PC whacko left uses.

I didn't renew my membership last month. 'Tain't much, but my dollars are walkin'.

Just amazed that the 'haters' as you put it use every opportunity, even a thread about SCI entertainment of all things - to slip the boot in to a hunting organisation.

It's funny how hushed they are in the other thread about the Wildlife Consultative Forum.

As for disagreeing with SCI - I disagree with much of what they do - but none of the haters are ever interested in the details - they are only interested in generalisations and rhetoric.

If...you are referencing me in the above post...this is my response.

I started working on changing SCI on its view of lion conservation in 2009 when a lot of the people who jumped on the Cecil bandwagon were ready to join forces with SCI, DSC, and hunters in general to work together for the good of the lion.

I spent a lot of time out of 4 years of my life and contributed a fair amount of my own money as well.

In the end...with a good deal squarely on the table...with all of the lion scientists & DSC firmly on board as well, USF&W ready to recede...SCI managed to screw it up...thus we are where are today with the lion and then USF&W moving on with the ele!

If SCI could have seen the forest without being blinded by the trees back then...it would be a different ballgame today.

Hunters still had a lot of credibility with scientists in 2010...not so much today...thanks to SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Denial will never improve the organization. The reality is that the awards do the organization far more harm than good in today's environment. Will they change that? Absolutely not, they are addicted to the revenue from the awards program. Is the continued existence of the awards program helping to ensure that the organization remains marginal into the future? Absolutely.

Unfortunately the hunting fraternity will continue to fail to take a deep hard look at what is unacceptable in a changing world - we dont need to apologize for being hunters we dont need to be politicaly correct but we do need to shed those things that are not good for hunting , and those include :
* Conventions where the emphasis is on ego's and record books and back slapping instead of the experience , educating the public and getting kids outdoors , ethics and sportsmanship.
* Canned killing , this includes stopping advertising it in major publications

On topic - I recall reading here that Huey Lewis and the News were not pro hunting in the first place.

I stopped attending the banquets because just how much self flagellation can one bear from the back slapping club, the worst hunter that I ever guided is a major part of this inner club - who are part and parcel of the demise of our sport .

SCI is so out of tone of its members and times - if it does not change it will continue to diminish its ability to stand for hunters and conservation.

Crikey, I hope they check that the dinner waiters are all pro hunting too.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:
So, if anyone disagrees with how SCI does things, they're a "hater".

The same exact tactic the PC whacko left uses.

I didn't renew my membership last month. 'Tain't much, but my dollars are walkin'.

Just amazed that the 'haters' as you put it use every opportunity, even a thread about SCI entertainment of all things - to slip the boot in to a hunting organisation.

It's funny how hushed they are in the other thread about the Wildlife Consultative Forum.

As for disagreeing with SCI - I disagree with much of what they do - but none of the haters are ever interested in the details - they are only interested in generalisations and rhetoric.

If...you are referencing me in the above post...this is my response.

I started working on changing SCI on its view of lion conservation in 2009 when a lot of the people who jumped on the Cecil bandwagon were ready to join forces with SCI, DSC, and hunters in general to work together for the good of the lion.

I spent a lot of time out of 4 years of my life and contributed a fair amount of my own money as well.

In the end...with a good deal squarely on the table...with all of the lion scientists & DSC firmly on board as well, USF&W ready to recede...SCI managed to screw it up...thus we are where are today with the lion and then USF&W moving on with the ele!

If SCI could have seen the forest without being blinded by the trees back then...it would be a different ballgame today.

Hunters still had a lot of credibility with scientists in 2010...not so much today...thanks to SCI.

I imagine DSC must feel like the forgotten step-child in all this.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Denial will never improve the organization. The reality is that the awards do the organization far more harm than good in today's environment. Will they change that? Absolutely not, they are addicted to the revenue from the awards program. Is the continued existence of the awards program helping to ensure that the organization remains marginal into the future? Absolutely.

Unfortunately the hunting fraternity will continue to fail to take a deep hard look at what is unacceptable in a changing world - we dont need to apologize for being hunters we dont need to be politicaly correct but we do need to shed those things that are not good for hunting , and those include :
* Conventions where the emphasis is on ego's and record books and back slapping instead of the experience , educating the public and getting kids outdoors , ethics and sportsmanship.
* Canned killing , this includes stopping advertising it in major publications

On topic - I recall reading here that Huey Lewis and the News were not pro hunting in the first place.

I stopped attending the banquets because just how much self flagellation can one bear from the back slapping club, the worst hunter that I ever guided is a major part of this inner club - who are part and parcel of the demise of our sport .

SCI is so out of tone of its members and times - if it does not change it will continue to diminish its ability to stand for hunters and conservation.

+1

Bill - you are absolutely correct in that "most" hunting organizations have an awards system/program for their members. Civic Clubs, 4H clubs, Boy and Girl Scouts, school systems, etc. have always recognized outstanding accomplishments and endeavors that their members have achieved. So, this is not really something that only "SCI" does but basically all of society . In the 70's our little, local bow hunting Club (125) members always recognized Members who took outstanding trophies and excelled in leading Community projects.

For some "unknown" reason on AR it's only the award and recognition system of SCI that is a hunter/hunting ruining, evil one. Actually it's not a "unknown" reason, but one that is very obvious.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

I have some information recently obtained about how trophy hunting if viewed by the public. When I get in the office tomorrow, I will post copies. If you don't think those awards are a problem after seeing this information, nothing will convince you ever.

The problem with the public's perception of trophy hunting is they are misinformed.

1. Most people believe the meat isn't utilized.
2. They are unaware that hunting almost anywhere in the world today is regulated and sustainable.

You would never know it by the posts on this site, but SCI is not the only organization that presents awards to members for killing animals. Nor is its record book the world's only such book.

Others include:
Boone & Crockett Club.
Pope & Young Club.
Houston Safari Club.
Dallas Safari Club.
Grand Slam Club/Ovis.
The Wild Sheep Foundation.
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.
National Wild Turkey Federation.
CIC.
Texas Trophy Hunters Association.

There are lots more, but these ten came to mind without research.

I purposely did not list the many PH and guides' associations that reward their members for the exceptional animals their clients kill.

Please don't call me an SCI cheerleader, because I am not. However, I do wonder why the awards program of one hunting organization is condemned on this site while similar programs of other groups are not.

Bill Quimby

In a word . . . ridiculous . . .

Actually it is worse than ridiculous because it makes hunting appear to the public to be little more than a game designed to stroke a hunter's ego. That is why the awards are a bad idea and should be either eliminated or dramatically cut back. And to those that would say, "if you do not like the awards you do not have to participate" . . . unfortunately the awards make the defense of the sport harder for all of us.



C.J. MCELROY AWARD: Named for the late founder and chairman emeritus of Safari Club International, the C.J. McElroy Award established in June 1995, honors a member of SCI who has made great contributions to the sport of hunting, achieved excellence in worldwide hunting, displayed a dedication to the conservation of wildlife, and has a history of service to the global hunting community and to Safari Club International's goals. Potential nominees must have shown exemplary ethics in the business of hunting and be committed to SCI's programs and mission statement. Nomination forms are posted on www.safariclub.org. Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT AWARD: Established in June 1993, hunters who participate fully in the SCI World Hunting Awards program are honored with the Crowning Achievement Award. To qualify, hunters must have achieved and purchased nine Grand Slams, the Hunting Achievement Award at the Silver Level, the Animals of Africa Inner Circle at the Silver Level or Animals of North America at the Gold Level, the Fourth Pinnacle of Achievement, and 13 of the remaining 27 Inner Circles at the Copper Level or higher. (New SCI Continental Awards or Alternative Method Recognition Awards do not count towards this award.) Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

DIANA AWARD: Established in June 1995, the Diana Award honors the female hunter. Named for the huntress of Roman mythology, it recognizes the women of SCI who have excelled in international big game hunting. Nominees will have shown exemplary ethics in the field, remained committed to the mission statement of SCI, and have personally given of their time and energies to enhance wildlife conservation and education. This award is sponsored by Diana Committee. Nomination forms are posted on www.safariclub.org. Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

HALL OF FAME AWARD: Induction into the Safari Club International Hall of Fame may be the most prestigious honor bestowed upon a SCI member. Introduced in June 1984, potential inductees are nominated by SCI members. The Hall of Fame Award selection committee ranks each nominee based upon the following criteria: history of service to the world hunting community, dedication to Safari Club International's goals of conservation, protecting the freedom to hunt, and education of the people. Hall of Fame Award criteria do not include the candidates' hunting accomplishments. Beginning in 2008, a bronze was presented to the inductee during the Annual Hunters' Convention. Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

INTERNATIONAL HUNTING AWARD: The International Hunting Award was established in June 1980 to honor the great hunters of the world. Those hunters who have achieved excellence in the field, have hunted extensively and are actively hunting at the time of selection are possible candidates. Selection is based solely on specific and well defined hunting achievements, numbers and quality of trophies entered into the SCI Record Book, number of countries hunted, total number of hunts taken and levels of entries that qualify for World Hunting Awards. Candidates are ethical hunters who have demonstrated this with years of hunting experience throughout the world. All candidates must complete at the Diamond level the Mountain Game of the World, Animals of Africa, and Animals of North America. Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

PATHFINDER AWARD: Established in June 2002. When an individual is faced with overcoming a physical challenge or disability that is capable of blocking the "routine" way forward through life (including hunting and shooting), he or she must discover previously unexplored regions of self-esteem, self-worth, courage, persistence, and determination. The Pathfinder Award recognizes these individuals. Through trial and error, success and failure, the pathfinder, with a "never quit" attitude, works hard to discover his or her own way through life. A pathfinder is one who discovers a way into or through unexplored regions. This award is made possible through the generous support of Jan Oelofse Safaris, Numzaan Safaris, Fauna & Flora Customhouse Brokerage, Inc., Highvelt Taxidermy, Life Form Taxidermy, Safari Air Cargo Systems CC, Oxi-Logistics, Robert Kiyosaki, Afton Guest House and W.C. Russell Moccassin Co.

PINNACLE OF ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS: The Pinnacle of Achievement Awards, established in June 1986, honor hunters with wide experience in hunting around the world. To enter the First Pinnacle of Achievement, the member must have achieved and purchased six of the 43 SCI Grand Slams and/or Inner Circles at any level. Recipients of the First Pinnacle of Achievement Award receive a four-tiered, wooden base along with an elegant crystal obelisk. To enter the Second Pinnacle of Achievement Award, four Inner Circles at the Silver level and two Grand Slams are required. The Third Pinnacle of Achievement Award requires four Inner Circles at the Gold level and three Grand Slams. The Fourth Pinnacle requires five Inner Circles at the Gold level and one Inner Circle at the Diamond level. (New SCI Continental Awards do not count towards achievement.) Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

PROFESSIONAL HUNTER AWARD: The Professional Hunter Award, created in June 1980, honors two professional hunters who are acknowledged by both their peers and clients to be tops in their field. Those who receive this award are industry leaders in their involvement with the hunting community. Until 1993, only one professional hunter per year received this award. Starting that year, the award was split into two divisions: North American and International. Members of the SCI Board of Directors and Chapter presidents nominate a pool of candidates in each division from which the Award recipient is selected.

YOUNG HUNTER AWARD: The Young Hunter Award, established in June 1987, recognizes a young SCI member. To be eligible, the young hunter must be 15-21 years of age and do the following: be a current member of SCI, complete the application posted on www.scifirstforhunters.org, compose a 500-word essay on the topic, "How I Am A Role Model for Hunting," complete a hunter safety education certification course, obtain a letter of recommendation from an SCI chapter, and obtain a letter of recommendation from a school administrator. The Trophy Records Committee will be the selection committee for the Young Hunter Award. Applications are scored, based on 30 percent conservation work and community service, 25 percent hunting and outdoor experience, 25 percent role model for hunting (including essay), 10 percent SCI Chapter recommendation and 10 percent TRC overall judgment of applicant. The two applicants with the highest overall percentage will be declared the winners and be recognized both at the Major Awards cocktail reception and at the following evening banquet during the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention. This award is sponsored by Cabela's. Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

WORLD CONSERVATION & HUNTING AWARD: Developed in June 2006, the World Conservation & Hunting Award offers another opportunity for committed SCI members to be recognized for their continued hunting accomplishments after achieving the highest honor of the World Hunting Award Rings. This award is presented each year during the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention at the Record Book Major Awards Cocktail Reception. This award recognizes the efforts of SCI hunters who continue to travel the six continents to hunt. Traveling hunters contribute a monetary value to wildlife that promotes the conservation and preservation of those species. Continued hunting boosts the economy in big game areas, in many cases providing employment opportunities for indigenous people. To achieve the World Conservation and Hunting Award, members must have achieved and purchased all 14 Grand Slams, the diamond level of 25 of the 27 Inner Circles, the fourth Pinnacle of Achievement, Zenith and the Crowning Achievement. (New SCI Continental and Alternate Methods Awards do not apply towards this award.) All record book entries or photo entries must be submitted by September 1 of each award year.

WORLD HUNTING AWARD RINGS: The World Hunting Award Rings, introduced in June 1995, is the highest award in the World Hunting Awards program, recognizing extraordinary efforts in conservation of wildlife. A custom-crafted ring made of 14-karat white or yellow gold, onyx and 21 point diamonds with six stones are presented to each participant. These rings represent the premier honor in the world of hunting. Recipients are recognized at both the Major Awards Cocktail Reception and at the evening banquets where the ring is presented during the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention. To date, 94 people have been awarded this honor. SCI members must have achieved and purchased 11 SCI Grand Slams, including the North American 29 and the Africa 29, 17 SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level and the Fourth Pinnacle of Achievement and the Crowning Achievement. (New SCI Continental Awards do not count towards award.) All record book entries or photo entries must be submitted by October 30 of each award year.

ZENITH AWARD: The Zenith Award, created in June 2009, is designed for SCI hunters who may not have an opportunity to complete the Crowning Achievement Award. The Zenith Award falls in between the 4th Pinnacle and the Crowning Achievement. Members must have completed 6 Grand Slams, 2 Inner Circles at the Diamond level, a minimum of 2 Inner Circles at the Silver level, 6 at the Gold level and the Fourth Pinnacle of Achievement. Please note all the above awards must be achieved and purchased before a member qualifies for the Zenith Award. (New SCI Continental Awards do not count towards award.) Application deadline is September 1 of each award year.

WORLD HUNTING AWARDS: The World Hunting Awards, established in June 1993, recognize hunters for their hunting achievements and conservation efforts submitted to SCI via the SCI Record Book of Big Game Animals or photo entry. The World Hunting Awards program is comprised of SCI Continental Awards, SCI Milestone Awards, and Inner Circles. Award requirements and order forms can be found in the current Awards issue of SAFARI Magazine or at www.scifirstforhunters.org under the Record Book tab. The awards committee monitors the award criteria based on current legislation and distribution of wildlife.

SCI CONTINENTAL AWARDS: The SCI Continental Awards, created in June 2012, are part of the World Hunting Awards program and recognizes hunters who have achievements in 17 different categories. There are different species requirements for the different SCI Continental Awards. Requirements can be found in the annual June Awards Issue of the Safari Magazine or by visiting the SCI website. Award winners are recognized in the Awards issue of SAFARI Magazine and at the SCI Annual Hunter's Convention.

MAJOR AWARDS: The Major Awards, established in June 1985, are presented during the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention at the Major Awards Cocktail Reception. Every top ten and top twenty entry taken within the past 18 months of the award deadline that are accepted into the SCI Record Book and certified by a Master Measurer are eligible for Major Awards. Every category sub-chair reviews the selection report and chooses the top entries that they feel are outstanding accomplishments for that award year and they get placed on the final ballot to be sent to the judges. The judges rank the candidates based on the difficulty of the hunt, the desirability of the animal, the number of entries submitted to the Record Book for that species category and overall quality of the entry. The judges select first through tenth places along with two alternates for each category. Names of recipients are listed in SCI Annual Hunters' Convention programs and the annual Awards issue of SAFARI Magazine. There is no cost or special application form needed to be eligible for the Major Awards, provided the hunter submitted a certified top ten or top twenty entry within the given time frame. Eligibility is limited to members of Safari Club International. The deadline is March 30 of each award year.

INNER CIRCLES: The Inner Circles, established in June 1984, is part of the World Hunting Awards program and recognizes hunters who have achievements in twenty-eight different categories. There are five levels that can be achieved on an Inner Circle: copper, bronze, silver, gold and diamond. Members who qualify for Inner Circles are eligible to receive a plaque at the Copper Level. As the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Levels are achieved and purchased, the hunter receives a brass plate to add to their Copper Level plaque. When the Diamond Level is achieved and purchased, you get to choose from one of many bronze bases that hold the plaque. Recipients of the twenty-eight different Inner Circles are acknowledged in the June issue of the Safari publication.

SCI MILESTONE AWARDS: The SCI Milestone Awards are part of the World Hunting Awards program. SCI Milestone Awards recognize hunters for their achievements in taking a representation of species across different continents. The minimum requirements and eligible categories vary for each continent and may be found in the annual June Awards Issue of the Safari Magazine or by visiting the SCI website. Award winners are recognized in the Awards issue of SAFARI Magazine and at the SCI Annual Hunter's Convention.

I just deleted the post on this subject. I was simply trying to bring to the attention of AR members that two entertainment participants for the SCI Convention had bowed under PC pressure by the anti hunter movement. Something I thought ALL hunters and AR members would be concerned about. With the exception of a very few folks who actually understood this matter, the thread, as always, turned into a SCI bashing, personal agenda one with the usual participants leading the way.

Seems if other subjects were of more importance, then a new thread could have been introduced instead of crapping on this one? : So please continue with your own self centered high jacking, I am finished.

I have made a lot of "good" friends and acquaintances here on AR, gleaned a lot of good information, etc. AR has gone way down hill, as can be seen by the number of participants lately. I for one will now join the ranks of those who choose to no longer participate here. Will keep in touch via PM and e-mail with those who I have come to know and respect.

Have a great Holiday Season, Audios.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

In the latest issue of Safari Times, they give the web address for both entertainers. They recommended letting them know how you feel.

www.hueylewisandthenews.com

www.doobiebros.com

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
In the latest issue of Safari Times, they give the web address for both entertainers. They recommended letting them know how you feel.

www.hueylewisandthenews.com

www.doobiebros.com

I went to the Huey Lewis website but couldn't find a way to send a message or email. There was a "Forum" link but when I went there I saw a message that the site was being discontinued due to "security concerns."

Do you think the anti's made threats on Lewis' website?

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
In the latest issue of Safari Times, they give the web address for both entertainers. They recommended letting them know how you feel.

www.hueylewisandthenews.com

www.doobiebros.com

I went to the Huey Lewis website but couldn't find a way to send a message or email. There was a "Forum" link but when I went there I saw a message that the site was being discontinued due to "security concerns."

Do you think the anti's made threats on Lewis' website?[/QUOTE}

Try the section at the bottom. Fan contact.

I left the Doobie Bros a message as well as Huey. .

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
In the latest issue of Safari Times, they give the web address for both entertainers. They recommended letting them know how you feel.

www.hueylewisandthenews.com

www.doobiebros.com

I went to the Huey Lewis website but couldn't find a way to send a message or email. There was a "Forum" link but when I went there I saw a message that the site was being discontinued due to "security concerns."

Do you think the anti's made threats on Lewis' website?[/QUOTE}

Try the section at the bottom. Fan contact.

I left the Doobie Bros a message as well as Huey. .

Not sure if it is helpful but we sent our emails to:

Huey Lewis and the News
Attention Huey and the band.
info@hueylewisandthenews.com

The Doobie Brothers
Attention Patrick and the band
kate@richlynmarketing.com

I kept the email professional and non-threatening about discouraging fans, etc. I voiced my disappointment as a lifelong fan and also expressed my willingness to help them learn more about wildlife conservation. I offered to connect them with others should they have interest in learning more.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
In the latest issue of Safari Times, they give the web address for both entertainers. They recommended letting them know how you feel.

www.hueylewisandthenews.com

www.doobiebros.com

I went to the Huey Lewis website but couldn't find a way to send a message or email. There was a "Forum" link but when I went there I saw a message that the site was being discontinued due to "security concerns."

Do you think the anti's made threats on Lewis' website?[/QUOTE}

Try the section at the bottom. Fan contact.

I left the Doobie Bros a message as well as Huey. .

Not sure if it is helpful but we sent our emails to:

Huey Lewis and the News
Attention Huey and the band.
info@hueylewisandthenews.com

The Doobie Brothers
Attention Patrick and the band
kate@richlynmarketing.com

I kept the email professional and non-threatening about discouraging fans, etc. I voiced my disappointment as a lifelong fan and also expressed my willingness to help them learn more about wildlife conservation. I offered to connect them with others should they have interest in learning more.

Love to hear if you get a reply.

Cheers
Jim

I am not holding my breath Jim but I will be sure to post if I receive a reply.

Best always,
Shawn

i did not get a reply