AN OPEN LETTER TO MARK SULLIVAN

Mark:

There have been several posts of late relating that you may be joining the sometimes raucous, frequently informative, and always entertaining Accurate Reloading family. If so, let me be among the first to welcome you.

It probably is old news to you that the mere mention of your name has a polarizing affect on our membership. You have your staunch defenders, but also no small number of detractors. I should also add that there is an almost unanimous feeling that you are receiving unfair treatment at the hands of SCI. If you have been banned from displaying at the annual conference, such ban should only come following some manner of due process – which appears to be absent in your case.

Inasmuch as the AR membership is a potential constituency of yours, I can’t help but think that it is worthwhile for you to address a few of the concerns expressed by members, as well as some of the wilder and outrageous accusations directed at you.

Clearly you are under no obligation to do so, and indeed, word has it that you don’t suffer an economy of clients. But public figures deserve to be judged in the light of the truth and not unsubstantiated rumor, and many of us sincerely want to know more about a man who is arguably the most famous – if not infamous – practicing PH alive. And, you could find that even your detractors could come to your defense before the SCI powers that be.

Let me clarify that by no means do I speak for either our much respected host, Saeed, who generously provides us with this forum, nor any other participant on AR. Ours is a fiercely independent band of hunters that have only in common a love for African hunting – like yourself. That said, I will do my best to summarize perhaps the most significant questions posed about you and your style of hunting dangerous game. Trust me though: If I leave anything out, my friends on the board will promptly post addenda.

Full disclosure on myself: You don’t know me (though we have spoken several times); I own many of your videos, which I find entertaining, if sometimes melodramatic; I have two of your books, the first being far superior to the second; and, most importantly, I admire your infusing ‘danger’ in hunting dangerous game, as there should be an element of risk in their pursuit. That said, I do have some problems, as I will make clear below.

First, one of the accusations made against you is that you somehow intentionally wound your quarry – for the most part buffalo – so as to prompt them to charge. The actual claims range from the silly (you tell your client to shoot the animal in a non-vital area, or you do it yourself) to the absurd (you use a .22LR to whack them in their cajones – a testament to your shooting prowess, I might add). There are even some who say a ‘friend of a friend’ (or ‘a game warden friend of a PH’) has told them that your hunting concessions are left littered with many wounded buffalo, the result of your deliberately wounding and losing them.

The second issue relates somewhat to the first: A number of our members are made uncomfortable, and indeed find it unethical, that instead of firing backup shots to kill a buffalo at the first opportunity, you instead prolong the animal's death and instead attempt to instigate a charge. The argument has been made that the common practice of leaving a buffalo to 'stiffen up' or 'get sick' before pursuing it is no less offensive; nevertheless, it strikes many as unduly cruel to taunt your prey and prolong its suffering for the simple purpose of filming a charge.

Third, it’s claimed that your hunting clients must sign a ‘non-disclosure agreement’ that prohibits them from relating the details of your hunt. The assumption here being that, were you to employ unethical hunting practices, your clients would be estopped from making them public under pain of tort. My guess is that, in reality, there is an agreement that gives license for you to use a client’s image, etc. in any videos you may later create, along with limitations on their personal use of such video for profit. Whatever the case, could you clarify this for us?

The fourth and last issue of significance is one that would concern me, were I on safari with you. Your videos appear to demonstrate a predilection to shoot on top of some of your clients, sometimes virtually simultaneous to their first shot. Though it may be that the client requests this of you, it strikes many of us as if you’re hunting on the client’s dime. Indeed, on one video, you seem mildly perturbed when a capable young man fires and kills a charging hippo before you have the chance to shoot, too. Perhaps this is all discussed before the hunt takes place and agreements are made prior to any shooting, but this is a matter of controversy that many on AR take issue with.

As I said, you have no obligation to address any of these points – this is not a tribunal. On the other hand, you have many supporters – and potential supporters – who would benefit from hearing your side of the story.

One thing I believe I can say on behalf of everyone on AR is this: Like Craig Boddington, Buzz Charlton, Ivan Carter, Marc Watts, and the other well known hunters and PHs who favor us with their participation, you would be a welcome member in any of our discussions.

Thanks and regards,

A well thought and interseting letter, Kim....but "not a tribunal"....ain't convinced of that. Not guilty until proven does not apply. No shortage of opinions here....some informative and kindly presented...others just plain $hitty.
Hope he does come aboard though.....

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I wish I coud write like that.

I just wish the great one would post a response, since he is supposed to be a member; and greatly desirous of setting his detractors straight.

Hope this happens soon...

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I just wish the great one would post a response, since he is supposed to be a member; and greatly desirous of setting his detractors straight.

Hope this happens soon...

Rich
DRSS

"Great one"?

I am sure Mark will be flattered with his new title.

I just got off the phone with Mark Sullivan! He was kind enough to call me despite his preparing to leave for Tanzania on Saturday for his 21st year as a PH.

Mark has, in fact, registered as a member of AR and will be posting before he leaves. We had an entertaining conversation, during which time he tried to convince me that all of the allegations against him are not only true, but part of his grand marketing scheme. (I've heard from clients of his that he has a sly sense of humor, and it was very evident throughout our discussion.)

'Great One' or not, I feel confident that we will be hearing from Mark in the next couple of days. This should be both informative and entertaining ...

He registered on 8-4-10 as "Mark Sullivan".

Very well written letter Kim.

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
I wish I coud write like that.

I agree with Mr. Smith. I'll bet KPete got an "A" in English 1A. The content of the letter is also great- just what I will ask when I see him in person again. I anticipate Mr. Sullivan's response.


Tom

Mark Sullivan on AR: it's called hearsay, and none of it is admissable in a court of law. The videos, however, are, and that is the damning evidence to date.

Personal Response: he will be too busy to post before he leaves.

Rich
DRSS

Who is worried about a court of law - this is AR. For God's sake man, we are not trying anyone, only seeking to understand a fellow hunter's position.

Nice "piece of bait" Kim. You have a way of reeling guys in here, ya know buddy. I talked with Mark at length as well this week, urging him to set the record straight with the AR crowd. He and I also agreed on a date where I will conduct a TV interview with him. There were no preconditions set on what I can and can't ask him about. This interview will be part of an in-depth broadcast report I'm doing on Mark for an outdoors TV show.

I guess I have to give you credit Kim (or do I blame you for my entrance into the forum.) I logged on one day to find some odd statements being said about me, and I eventually stepped in to set the record straight.

Mark is as you stated, preparing for a Tanzania safari, and I guess if he gets the time, he'll post something. He doesn't back down from a challenge, has never been known for brevity and if I had to guess he's likely preparing something to submit to the forum as you read this. So get ready, he's coming.

Of course he could entertain this crowd for days upon days, but don't expect him to answer every question. If he feels the forum is fair to him, he'll stick around and post from time to time. If he's feels disrespected and insulted by cheap shots, he's not gonna be a familiar face around here.

That was the way I felt about AR when I first read it. I didn't want to dignify any of the negative posts here. I also had an issue with the "piling on" mentality. But as I observed from afar, I noticed that many of the posters in here do know what they're talking about and ask sensible questions. Your posts Kim, are what really drew me in. I liked also what LionHunter wrote and AAZW, ScottyBoy and Jason just to name a few. The AR forum is now overwhelmingly a positive tool in the hunting community, and I told Mark so. No longer do people think the AR guys and gals are a bunch of nuts.

Mark Sullivan is to hunting what Madonna is to music. Some of the outrageous things he does baffle us, but we do seem to keep buying his music. He knows he's a lightning rod, and I have to give it to him for stating his beliefs, standing by what he believes in and fiercely arguing for what he thinks is right.

On the hunting side we're totally opposites. He throws a lot of lead. I like to throw just one punch. He likes to get in the face of animals. I've been known to shoot as far away as possible (on plainsgame).

I think in due time Kim, he'll respond. And then I'm gonna have you formulate my questions for when I sit down with him for my one on one interview.

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
Nice "piece of bait" Kim. You have a way of reeling guys in here, ya know buddy. I talked with Mark at length as well this week, urging him to set the record straight with the AR crowd. He and I also agreed on a date where I will conduct a TV interview with him. There were no preconditions set on what I can and can't ask him about. This interview will be part of an in-depth broadcast report I'm doing on Mark for an outdoors TV show.

I guess I have to give you credit Kim (or do I blame you for my entrance into the forum.) I logged on one day to find some odd statements being said about me, and I eventually stepped in to set the record straight.

Mark is as you stated, preparing for a Tanzania safari, and I guess if he gets the time, he'll post something. He doesn't back down from a challenge, has never been known for brevity and if I had to guess he's likely preparing something to submit to the forum as you read this. So get ready, he's coming.

Of course he could entertain this crowd for days upon days, but don't expect him to answer every question. If he feels the forum is fair to him, he'll stick around and post from time to time. If he's feels disrespected and insulted by cheap shots, he's not gonna be a familiar face around here.

That was the way I felt about AR when I first read it. I didn't want to dignify any of the negative posts here. I also had an issue with the "piling on" mentality. But as I observed from afar, I noticed that many of the posters in here do know what they're talking about and ask sensible questions. Your posts Kim, are what really drew me in. I liked also what LionHunter wrote and AAZW, ScottyBoy and Jason just to name a few. The AR forum is now overwhelmingly a positive tool in the hunting community, and I told Mark so. No longer do people think the AR guys and gals are a bunch of nuts.

Mark Sullivan is to hunting what Madonna is to music. Some of the outrageous things he does baffle us, but we do seem to keep buying his music. He knows he's a lightning rod, and I have to give it to him for stating his beliefs, standing by what he believes in and fiercely arguing for what he thinks is right.

On the hunting side we're totally opposites. He throws a lot of lead. I like to throw just one punch. He likes to get in the face of animals. I've been known to shoot as far away as possible (on plainsgame).

I think in due time Kim, he'll respond. And then I'm gonna have you formulate my questions for when I sit down with him for my one on one interview.

Nice post Marc, classy as always.

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
Nice "piece of bait" Kim. You have a way of reeling guys in here, ya know buddy. I talked with Mark at length as well this week, urging him to set the record straight with the AR crowd. He and I also agreed on a date where I will conduct a TV interview with him. There were no preconditions set on what I can and can't ask him about. This interview will be part of an in-depth broadcast report I'm doing on Mark for an outdoors TV show.

I guess I have to give you credit Kim (or do I blame you for my entrance into the forum.) I logged on one day to find some odd statements being said about me, and I eventually stepped in to set the record straight.

Mark is as you stated, preparing for a Tanzania safari, and I guess if he gets the time, he'll post something. He doesn't back down from a challenge, has never been known for brevity and if I had to guess he's likely preparing something to submit to the forum as you read this. So get ready, he's coming.

Of course he could entertain this crowd for days upon days, but don't expect him to answer every question. If he feels the forum is fair to him, he'll stick around and post from time to time. If he's feels disrespected and insulted by cheap shots, he's not gonna be a familiar face around here.

That was the way I felt about AR when I first read it. I didn't want to dignify any of the negative posts here. I also had an issue with the "piling on" mentality. But as I observed from afar, I noticed that many of the posters in here do know what they're talking about and ask sensible questions. Your posts Kim, are what really drew me in. I liked also what LionHunter wrote and AAZW, ScottyBoy and Jason just to name a few. The AR forum is now overwhelmingly a positive tool in the hunting community, and I told Mark so. No longer do people think the AR guys and gals are a bunch of nuts.

Mark Sullivan is to hunting what Madonna is to music. Some of the outrageous things he does baffle us, but we do seem to keep buying his music. He knows he's a lightning rod, and I have to give it to him for stating his beliefs, standing by what he believes in and fiercely arguing for what he thinks is right.

On the hunting side we're totally opposites. He throws a lot of lead. I like to throw just one punch. He likes to get in the face of animals. I've been known to shoot as far away as possible (on plainsgame).

I think in due time Kim, he'll respond. And then I'm gonna have you formulate my questions for when I sit down with him for my one on one interview.

Bait? I think you credit me with too much guile, Moja. I just find guys like you and Sullivan both fascinating and curious, that's all. As most of us do.

By the way, I would be flattering myself if I were to believe that I was of any significant influence in your decision to participate on AR. However, if I did encourage you in some very small way, I would consider that an immense accomplishment - as well as a favor to everyone who has come to enjoy your sober, logical, and experienced-backed opinions.

We will all look forward to seeing your interview with Mark, and trust you will give us ample warning so that we can set our recorders and Tivos. Now, can you give us a little inside information on the outdoors show you're hooking up with?

Time goes by, and still no marky-mark post. I am flabbergasted, I thought he would be as fast on the trigger here as he is on safari with client's animals.

Consider me as having fired a shot...
I also always advised clients to not take the stand if they were guilty.

Rich
DRSS

Good post Moja..

Looking forward to seeing the interview.. Should make for a good watch.

See you and Moja-ettes in Dallas!!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Time goes by, and still no marky-mark post. I am flabbergasted, I thought he would be as fast on the trigger here as he is on safari with client's animals.

Consider me as having fired a shot...
I also always advised clients to not take the stand if they were guilty.

Rich
DRSS

Rich, don't take this wrong, but you really need to let it go.

Part of me hopes Mark does not respond. Just because there are many people here who 'do know what they are talking about' doesn't imbue Mark with ANY responsibility to respond to any post, well-written or not. This is a public forum, yes, but it is filled with childish taunts as evidenced by Idaho Sharpshooter etc. There is no consensus among anyone but those present that this represents the apogee of all things African hunting and therefore if it is spoken here, it is gospel and if an issue is raised against (or for) someone or something, it deserves a response merely because there are those who feel they are owed a response because their sensibilities have somehow been offended.

Mark used his own forum, his website, to state his case. It is aimed at those who are interested in him and seek him. I can't see how pestering him by inviting him to join the virtual circle-jerk that is often this site to 'explain' himself is even remotely appealing to him.

He does what he does, and doesn't owe you or I any explanation. If you feel he does, pick up the phone and call him. From what I hear, he readily takes calls.

If he posts, then great, but I can't imagine he will say anything that will sate the appetite of those who just simply despise him.

Well Kim---regarding the TV show I have to be a little bit careful this time because I've put the cart before the horse on a few of these TV projects in the past.

But here's what I can say about this one. It doesn't involve me with a gun hunting. Besides that would be pretty boring: For example=== EPISODE #1: "Moja climbs to top of highest Ethiopia mountain and shoots #2 Mt. Nyala measuring 42"!" EPISODE #2 "Moja travels to C.A.R and shoots 56" Lord Derby". EPISODE #3 "Moja hunts with legendary Tanzania PH Gerard Miller and shoots salt lick leopard that had eluded Miller for three years." Are you snoring yet?

Well you get the point. Boring stuff right. And how do you compartmentalize all that in only 22 minutes of programming content. (The 30 minutes minus the 8 minutes of advertising.) My stand-up on camera open takes up three minutes in itself!

Seriously though the cable TV format doesn't suit my story telling style. I don't like to skip steps and rush to the kill shot. So I've put my reporter hat back on and have developed a news style investigative hunting issue interview type TV show. It's like ABC 20/20 but only involving the hunting world. This show has edge and involves confrontation of the hunting world's most pressing issues. I'm setting out to tackle the hunting world's most pressing issues and profile it's most intriguing and controversial characters.

Hunting is controversial within it's own ranks and I want to foster discussion and thought about some of these issues through the prism of television. The show is gonna need experts from time to time so keep your makeup bag handy.

Everybody who has seen the clips has nothing but rave reviews for the program, and it's different from everything else. To me all the hunting shows are the same.////Boy gets out of truck. Boy stalks animal. Boy shoots animal. Boy recovers animal. Boy says "bye-bye see ya next."//// I don't want to be part of that. There are already lotsa guys who are really good at that too like Craig, Jim S., Mike Rogers.

I want to educate, inform and entertain by doing what I really know how to do. That is interviewing and sometimes putting people on the hot seat. Sort of like HBO Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, but all hunting issues.

Single issue or person for the entire 30-minutes in depth. There's no shortage of material! WORKING TITLE: "For the Record with Bwana Moja". I'm in the process of producing six segments now which will serve as sample programming. The episodes will air, and if the shows are received favorably we'll continue with more. I'm not out to make friends with the show. I'm setting out to set the record straight---on MS, Canned Lion Hunting, Leopards with Dogs, Who's Getting Rich Off Hunting, Corrupt Safari Operators, How Easy/Difficult is it to Become a PH, HSUS v. The Hunting World...and on and on.

There's not a single program on TV like this and you better watch my first episode! I'll be front and center with full Moja wear on; Black Cowboy hat, Black fringe suede coat, Black cowboy boots---You can see me now can't you?

In my best anchorman voice..."Good Evening. Tonight on For the Record we travel to Tanzania and get up close with the worlds most famous or infamous PH, Mark Sullivan. Just exactly who is he? How did he learn to shoot so well, and why has SCI banned him from exhibiting at their shows?"

MONDAY PROMO...In my best anchorman voice..."If you can hang out on AR for 30 minutes, you can certainly join me for a half hour on Tuesday's at 8 p.m. For the Record with Bwana Moja."

Now that's titillating TV!

I think you have been praised enough but I can't help but say you do have some great writing skills Kim. I can assure you Mark will be posting tomorrow. He is extremely busy preparing to head-out to Tanzania as you say but he is a man of his word.

Mark is looking forward to getting the story out beyond his website and his inner circle of close friends, clients, and business associates. As M. Watts (Sable Trail) says, he will post something.

I will let MS speak for himself tomorrow but I know he has been patiently waiting for SCI to reverse their action. Many, including myself, have previously written SCI and expressed our concern regarding their official action well before this was made public knowledge on the Nitro Express Safaris website. We have reminded SCI of their organizational responsibility that should be associated with an action of this magnitude.

MS is a supporter of SCI and certainly must find himself in an unusual position. Especially when you consider his willingness and desire to initiate dialog with SCI and then being faced with their lack of willingness to do so or even offer an explanation for discussion.

I hope as Larry Sellers and CCMDoc suggested in an associated thread, a letter writing campaign to SCI demanding transparency on this matter will occur and hopefully stimulate appropriate action by the Executive Committee to properly resolve this issue.

As SableTrail eluded to and BaxterB mentioned, I can affirm MS is not interested in trying to satisfy the appetite of the MS haters.

BaxterB: Well stated. Nice post.

Express Yourself,

"I can assure you...". Pretty strong words from a newbie.

What will you have to say if he does not show?

As an aside: someone here PM'ed me and suggested that I was trying to provoke ms. I told him "thank you very kindly" for the compliment.
It's how he makes his living, isn't it?

regards,

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Express Yourself,

"I can assure you...". Pretty strong words from a newbie.

What will you have to say if he does not show?

As an aside: someone here PM'ed me and suggested that I was trying to provoke ms. I told him "thank you very kindly" for the compliment.
It's how he makes his living, isn't it?

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Ouch Rich. Why all the hostility? I never claimed to be anything more than a simple man who has a love of hunting, trying to learn as I go, and a sincere desire to share my experiences with those who might be interested.

I will say the same thing tomorrow when MS does post. Absolutely nothing.

That's why many of us might take awhile to reach your high level of posting notoriety. Because as we all know. Quantity of posts equals quality of posts right?

All joking aside, I respect your opinion. I hope we can still remain friends. Even if I am just a "newbie."

One of the better PR campaings I have seen in awhile. We generally call it gorilla marketing...cheap, direct and effective.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Time goes by, and still no marky-mark post. I am flabbergasted, I thought he would be as fast on the trigger here as he is on safari with client's animals.

Consider me as having fired a shot...
I also always advised clients to not take the stand if they were guilty.

Rich
DRSS

Rich, don't take this wrong, but you really need to let it go.

I agree. Rich, you need to relax and understand that MS has no obligation whatsoever to post or respond on this forum. If he does respond, I for one think AR will be better off for it. I joined AR BECAUSE of the variety of opinions and lively discussions. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and entitled to agree or disagree. You however seem to poke fun/ridicule anyone who sees Mark joining AR as positive. Add to that your Marky Mark and "great one" comments and it is becoming painfully clear that you have no actual interest in giving the man a fair hearing. You have tried and convicted him before allowing him to make a choice .
Funny that sounds awfully like the Chinese govt imprisoning people for choosing to have a bible in their possession!!!!!!!!!

I ,and I am sure many others would like to have Mark on AR, but he deserves the right to make his own choices .......let him do that.

That was written so well...I have tears in my eyes!


dale

Why is it such a big deal that he joined.....

IMHO, every member here is equal, and no one is better than others... (well, maybe Walter).

Lets see IF he posts, and when he does, evaluate then.

Idaho,Mark Sullivan will proof you are wrong about what you think of him,believe me.Have a greatday and relax......

Some people here (ISS) appear to really think the world revolves around their taunts,AR and the number of posts on AR. Let me give you a hot flash. It doesn't.

This guy has got a business to run. Yes, hunting is a business. I run several businesses. If I were MS, I would respond only if and when I had the time. Keep in mind he is leaving for Tanzania Saturday. I'm confident he has nothing better to do than troll AR to see what is said about him by a bunch of people who by and large can't afford to hunt with him. I sure as hell wouldn't make 15 seconds I didn't have to respond to a bunch of childish taunts (ie Marky Mark).

The fact of the matter is that this is like talking politics. You all can beat to death this for years, make all the unsupported accusations you want and make childish taunts every hour on the hour and no one is going to change their mind in part because many here are so closed minded.

Who says men don't enjoy soap operas???

Guys,

If I were Mark Sullivan I'd be loving this. Some members are in awe of him and others are actually incensed by his video persona. All this does is enhance his reputation and make him more interesting. The best part is all this pubicity is free.

Mark

I watched 1 of Mr Sullivan's videos. I do respect him for how he has generated a thriving business in a VERY competitive world. It is not my style of hunting and I am not a fan. I do believe that SCI needs to make a public statement! What would impress me and put me in the fan column is if Mr. Sullivan donated a hunt to be raffled to benifit John Greeff !!! What better way to put your money where your mouth is. IMHO it would put all the bantering behind and focus on what is important. Hard to criticize a man when he helps one of his own.

I think Idaho Sharpshooter should be gut shot and we'll take bets how long it takes "marky mark" to let him choose how he wants to go out"

"I think Idaho Sharpshooter should be gut shot and we'll take bets how long it takes "marky mark" to let him choose how he wants to go out"

Degas,

You are a new member so I will give you a little slack, but your post is way out of line.

I'll betcha MS is selling some videos and books off this current round of discussions. Hmm...maybe I'll buy some so I can see first hand what all the fuss is about.

Degas,

that was tried several times, those men all died.

Rich

I disagree with ms approach to hunting with clients. IMHO, if the PH ever fires his rifle the hunt was a failure.

I do not approve of how this SCI thing was handled.

I would love for Mark Sullivan to appear here and state his case.

He ain't here yet...

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Degas,

that was tried several times, those men all died.

Rich

Oh lord, here we go!!

Idaho you pompous ass I doubt Sullivan could give a rip what you'd like or not.
I'm with the poster whom said MS is loving every minute of this.