Ray has a gentle nature compared to me. I never learned to walk around or away from an issue.
Mark Sullivan came and made his case. I have acknowledged his comments and made my apologies.

Now we are at a place where the rest of you have to let go of it, or play "pile on after the fact" from the anonymity this forum accords you.

Do you feel better now, little man?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ray has a gentle nature compared to me. I never learned to walk around or away from an issue.
Mark Sullivan came and made his case. I have acknowledged his comments and made my apologies.

Now we are at a place where the rest of you have to let go of it, or play "pile on after the fact" from the anonymity this forum accords you.

Do you feel better now, little man?

Rich
DRSS

You surprise us ISS - After having piled it so high and had it tumbling down on you - can't take a nudge in the ribs from people you have persistently offended, if not insulted?

Surely a man of your caliber and standing should be able to take as much as he gives

Come On!!! How can a group of succesful people be so damn naive? I have read the posts from the beginning including Mr Sullivans reply and promised myself I would not post a comment but what is it with the hero worship?
It is plain as daylight in the videos, the photos, the books, and his reply that Mr Sullivan has a ego that is second to none. The poses in the books are down right laughable, the big double over the shoulder, the shooting gloves (ha ha ha ha) tucked into the belt and the serious expressions....
Read some books about the old timers that shot buffalo for meat, sometimes more than 2000 in a year and they recall a handful of charges over their entire careers, and this guy has a handful over one season?? And people doubt that he induces the charges?? How else is he going to sell his videos?
He might be a great guy and great to have a chat with but he is not a hunter.Let alone a professional one. Hunting is about the preparation, the pursuit and finally the kill. Not in hail of bullets but by getting as close as possible to ENSURE a quick clean kill, and if he cannot get his client into that position, most of the time, he is in the wrong profession.

quote:

#1 Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Mac - ISS says that if a PH fires a shot, the hunt and now the hunter, are both failures. Yet, he praises Ivan all the time, and Ivan shoots frequently. To me, that's fine, but Rich is being critical of one and praising the other?

quote:

#2 Now, let me word this carefully so as to not offend the un-intended. You speak highly of Ivan Carter, and I too respect him, but he fires his gun a lot!! Just watch "Boddington on Elephant", and I am sure you have. So, are all of those hunts failures, or are you just being hypocritical???
Aaron Neilson

Aaron,the reason I posted about your post was only to set things straight about why Ivan shoots, being different from why Mark Sullivan shoots a lot in the example you gave for making your point in the second quote above.

In that quote you were sighting a film with Boddington on elephant. The principles in that film are Boddington, and Ivan Carter, and what I was taking issue with is, that IVAN was shooting by request of the client,Boddington. NOW! I haven't seen that film, it is just that I know how Boddington feels about being backed up by the PH on dangerous game.

I'm very sure every one of MS's clients do not request the PH to shoot even after they shoot, and certainly not BEFORE they shoot!

All I was saying was ISS was right in that difference between the two PHs in this case.

I am personally like Boddington in regard to the PH backing my shot on dangerous game as a matter of course, but it is my decision, not the PH's, unless the animals is wounded and about to get into the weeds,or a park where a follow-up will be a very dangerous afaire, or not at all. And may be lost, or may hurt someone.

IMO, MS carries that decision a little to far on his own.

I'm not disagreeing with you that some statements seem to be a flip flop, but like me, ISS is not a profesional writer, and may not always get across what the actual meaning he is trying to convey.

Everyone is always sighting jealousy as the reason for MS's detractors! I would say the only jealousy I think would fly is the fact that MS has found a way to shoot a couple hundred Cape buffalo, and hippo on the clients dime, and in fact been paid well for the privilege. As my grandfather always said. "Find what you like doing the best, then find a way of doing that for a living!" I think Mark has found that job.

Kibo,

there is a difference in basic approach. I differentiate between the post and the poster as long as possible. Some times you have to go on the other persons record. Most repliers (is that a word? Is now!) flunk that part of the test.

detractors cannot emulate me (in posting style and emphasis), and at the same time castigate me for how/what I post. That positions them alongside me, perhaps a level below.

See, if you choose to attack me, instead of carefully considering the point I am trying to make; then I have beaten you at your own game.
That thing about wanting to kill the messenger, if you cannot handle the message.
Not that I care, indeed it reinforces my position.

I deal in facts, and history. Mark Sullivan positions himself as a circus clown who specializes in killing his client's DG for them BEFORE it becomes necessary to prevent someone's being injured. That is a matter of public record, at his behest. He makes lots of $$$ off of klutzes.
I just wonder what sort of stories they have to make up when they get home to not appear totally inept to their circle of friends and acquaintances.

Imagine this conversation, I will omit quotation marks:
Hey Ed, heard you just got back from four weeks in Africa. How was it? Here's a picture of the Hippo I got. I blew the shot and MS had to kill it for me at about ten feet. You should see the video.
That's cool, what else did you get? Here's a picture of the 44 inch Cape Buffalo I got. Unfortunately, I shot him a bit far back. MS tracked him down, and killed him for me at twelve feet when he charged us.
Anything else? Yeah, I got a nice Elephant, missed the brain shot at fifteen yards. Boy am I glad MS was right in front of me, he nailed that 50 pounder at less than six feet. Pretty exciting, I can tell you that...
Say, is your wife pregnant? I know you guys have been trying for a couple years now to have kids. Yes, I had a few problems with impotence after the shooting issues, so MS was kind enough to take care of that for me too.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

#1 Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Mac - ISS says that if a PH fires a shot, the hunt and now the hunter, are both failures. Yet, he praises Ivan all the time, and Ivan shoots frequently. To me, that's fine, but Rich is being critical of one and praising the other?

quote:

#2 Now, let me word this carefully so as to not offend the un-intended. You speak highly of Ivan Carter, and I too respect him, but he fires his gun a lot!! Just watch "Boddington on Elephant", and I am sure you have. So, are all of those hunts failures, or are you just being hypocritical???
Aaron Neilson

Aaron,the reason I posted about your post was only to set things straight about why Ivan shoots, being different from why Mark Sullivan shoots a lot in the example you gave for making your point in the second quote above.

In that quote you were sighting a film with Boddington on elephant. The principles in that film are Boddington, and Ivan Carter, and what I was taking issue with is, that IVAN was shooting by request of the client,Boddington. NOW! I haven't seen that film, it is just that I know how Boddington feels about being backed up by the PH on dangerous game.

I'm very sure every one of MS's clients do not request the PH to shoot even after they shoot, and certainly not BEFORE they shoot!

All I was saying was ISS was right in that difference between the two PHs in this case.

I am personally like Boddington in regard to the PH backing my shot on dangerous game as a matter of course, but it is my decision, not the PH's, unless the animals is wounded and about to get into the weeds,or a park where a follow-up will be a very dangerous afaire, or not at all. And may be lost, or may hurt someone.

IMO, MS carries that decision a little to far on his own.

I'm not disagreeing with you that some statements seem to be a flip flop, but like me, ISS is not a profesional writer, and may not always get across what the actual meaning he is trying to convey.

Everyone is always sighting jealousy as the reason for MS's detractors! I would say the only jealousy I think would fly is the fact that MS has found a way to shoot a couple hundred Cape buffalo, and hippo on the clients dime, and in fact been paid well for the privilege. As my grandfather always said. "Find what you like doing the best, then find a way of doing that for a living!" I think Mark has found that job.

Mac - You should watch the film, Ivan shoots lots! Not just backing up Craig. As I mentioned, I have NO problem with that at all. He's the PH, he shoots when he thinks necessary, none of that was my point. ISS made a blanket statement, then goes on to qualify it when it doesn't fit with his previous posts, that was my point.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Mac - You should watch the film, Ivan shoots lots! Not just backing up Craig. As I mentioned, I have NO problem with that at all. He's the PH, he shoots when he thinks necessary, none of that was my point. ISS made a blanket statement, then goes on to qualify it when it doesn't fit with his previous posts, that was my point.

Sorry I simply misunderstood your post! I see now what you mean. I don'r really pay any attention to PHs shooting unless they tend to shoot first, especially on dangerous game. As you know there many times that it is absolutely necessary that the PH shoot and very quickly after the client shoots if he sees the shot was bad, and cover is close! That doesn't bother me at all, in fact I welcome it.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Mac - You should watch the film, Ivan shoots lots! Not just backing up Craig. As I mentioned, I have NO problem with that at all. He's the PH, he shoots when he thinks necessary, none of that was my point. ISS made a blanket statement, then goes on to qualify it when it doesn't fit with his previous posts, that was my point.

Sorry I simply misunderstood your post! I see now what you mean. I don'r really pay any attention to PHs shooting unless they tend to shoot first, especially on dangerous game. As you know there many times that it is absolutely necessary that the PH shoot and very quickly after the client shoots if he sees the shot was bad, and cover is close! That doesn't bother me at all, in fact I welcome it.

Mac - Totally agree!

From watching some of the commercial hunting videos, it seems quite a few PHs like to shoot as soon as the client has fired.

In some of them, I have seen the PH fire more shots at buffalo than the client.

My immediate reaction to this is to add that PH to my own blacklist of those to never hunt with.

Probably not real confident in the clients shooting ability? I understand you train of thought. I have noted on some recent TV programming where the PH is telling the client to "shoot again" on Buffalo hunts after the first shot.
Was watching Tracks Across Africa last night or perhaps it was Ivan and Craigs African show but a client was hunting Leopard and I could swear he hit the cat a foot behind the intended target area however they found the cat dead.
I have stated before that I am aware of at least two families that have gone on safari as their first hunt and probably used borrowed guns.
This stems from dialog with others (friends) that a Safari is something you can bring the whole family on. Nice digs and food. Non challenging, see a new country, experience Africa. Hardly like a goat hunt, sleeping in a tent and wearing blisters on your feet daily.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
From watching some of the commercial hunting videos, it seems quite a few PHs like to shoot as soon as the client has fired.

In some of them, I have seen the PH fire more shots at buffalo than the client.

My immediate reaction to this is to add that PH to my own blacklist of those to never hunt with.

Nobody else wants to kill your game for you...

That is the crux of the matter.

Rich
DRSS

from my experience there are only a few scenarios where a PH will shoot at a clients animal.
1/ To protect the client , himself and the team in the event of a dangerous situation occuring.(ie charge)
2/ At the request of a client. Some clients ask PH's to back them up immediatley as a matter of course. This discussion should be held before the hunt takes places so the client and the PH have a clear and concise understanding of exactly where and when the PH should shoot. There are most certainly clients who want the PH to shoot with them or immediatley afterward. Others do not want back up at all.

I think the bottom line is that every situation is different. Videos may seem exciting etc, but we all know that they are edited etc etc for effect and therefore the whole story is never known.
I am certainly of the belief that a client should do as much for himself on a DG hunt as is possible, as it makes the reward that much greater. I certainly however wouldnt decry a client who wanted immediate back up in order to ensure the animals quick death and his trophy security.