Let us say you are on a Lion hunt and this is the best possible view you get of this Lion. Study him and yes he is with his girlfriend but this is not a pride scenario and their are no dependant cubs.



Is he of age? Six? Is he a nomad, courting pride male or an outcast?

Would be interested for opinions across the board and especially from those in the know.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Let us say you are on a Lion hunt and this is the best possible view you get of this Lion. Study him and yes he is with his girlfriend but this is not a pride scenario and their are no dependant cubs.



Is he of age? Six? Is he a nomad, courting pride male or an outcast?

Would be interested for opinions across the board and especially from those in the know.

I'll be the first absolute non-expert to weigh in. In this case I can only see less than half the Lion. The face carries some scars (the female has really seen better days), the nose looks black (for whatever that is worth, the mane lays facing rearward, not forward, and the coat colors, especially along the back are quite dark.

If this was early in the hunt and this cat was happy on bait, since he does have a female with perhaps further observation is in order. If it's later in the hunt and the cat has been observed to only be with this female then (wait for it)......he's fairgame.

Bottom line is I personally will be relying on the talent and expertise of my PH this June and he does appear to have quite a bit of knowledge judging the maturity of game including Lion.

Where's the picture from Andrew?

Cheers
Jim

Well , I have never hunted Lions yet! But I will give it a try, hoping somebody with the right intel will answear on this thread!
There is clearly a visible mohawk and obviously the ears are very visible that puts the cat inn the 3-4 years category!On the other hand there is very much pigmentation on the nose, there is a light area on the nosetip, but still 80-90% black? If that is correct this cat is 7-8 years old and a shooter. There is also some scarring, both ears are cut up..
So what is significant? I will think it depends on area , some of the central African lions dont develope a lot of mane, there are also some genetical issues when it comes to big manes.
I think I will have to depend on the PH here (unless its All Gones PH), I cant answear the question.
But i am hoping somebody will

Andrew,

I'm no expert either but my guess is it's a shooter. Your pic? From where?

Mark

Clearly a shooter, IMO.

Andrew, PM re: safari outbound to you.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Study him and yes he is with his girlfriend but this is not a pride scenario and their are no dependant cubs.

Is he of age? Six? Is he a nomad, courting pride male or an outcast?

It looks like him and his lady are outcasts. I would think that he is of age due to his mostly black nose and facial scaring.

His lady seems to be missing and eye and has a great deal of scarring for a female. I have seen that prides will kick lame females out of the pride, so I would guess that is what has happened here.

They look like Zambezi valley maneaters. I know there is going to be a twist here, but I say boom, and if the tag is there, boom again! Ja, now contrary to what I wrote on the leopard thread, I reckon they should start shooting more female lions in Zim's Zambezi valley and give the males a break.

These lions are what I always imagined the maneaters of Chimutsi dam to look like.....

OK chaps location is irrelevant and let us dismiss the female.

You are in a blind and this is the very best look you get at him. You have seen his spoor over a few days and he is independent or rather singular. You have seen him in the twilight hours and your PH maybe hesitant.

Is he a younger nomad or an aged outcast?

Nose colour is not an age indicator in Zambia.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


Is he a younger nomad or an aged outcast?

In the blind I would defer to your expertise but I'll pick number two aged outcast.

As my buddy Mr. Jines wrote, I would shoot him and never post a picture on AR.

Seriously, he appears old to me, but I am not a lion expert like most on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
As my buddy Mr. Jines wrote, I would shoot him and never post a picture on AR.

Seriously, he appears old to me, but I am not a lion expert like most on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Nose colour is not an age indicator in Zambia.

Ah, you have given the game away....

The echo would be sounding in the ph's ears.

Mike

Not before consulting with my vet.....eran PH.

I'd give him a pass.

With that drooping chin and lower lip plus his dark colour I would guess he is. The female certainly looks old.

If my PH advised me to shoot, we'd be taking dead animal pictures.

Have a look at his legs and does anyone see a spot pattern? Is his mane dense? He is also lying in shadow. The Lioness could be the male's mother?

So far we have a minimum of 3 plus. Safari Lawyer has turned him down.

Would like Lane and Aaron to comment before I post more pictures, but what I am getting at is this maybe the best sight a PH gets of the Lion and ultimately we have to make the call.

quote:

Would like Lane and Aaron to comment before I post more pictures,

Andrew,
Are we getting ready to see a picture of this lion with a hunter squatting behind it?

I'd shoot him just for having such an ugly girlfriend....

troy

I would shoot the female as I have never had the desire to kill a male of any age or status, but dearly wanted to shoot a female.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I would shoot the female as I have never had the desire to kill a male of any age or status, but dearly wanted to shoot a female.

Plus one I think a lioness make a great mount and a stalking hunt for lioness would be great.

I don't think he's 6.

His mane is a little thin, and I see what Fairgame is saying about the spots, although I did not really pick up on it when I first saw the photo, and just thought it was due to the lighting.

Honestly, if this is all the better look I will get on him, I'm passing unless my PH is certain.

Even if he is 6, the relative thinness of the mane makes him not the lion I would be looking for.

I am at my deer hunting camp and looking at the pic on my Iphone. With that pic...I would vote 4-5 and would not shoot him without seeing more to convince me he was older.

Come on Lane are you going to shoot or not? It is a $50,000 question. The pictures are good.

Here is another.

Unless my PH says otherwise, he is ging to be going back to the skinning shed with us.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Unless my PH says otherwise, he is ging to be going back to the skinning shed with us.

Yep, boom is still my call.

Indeed - Andrew bring the vehicle and guys to load it.

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
Indeed - Andrew bring the vehicle and guys to load it.

I'd like to see more views, but at this point I'm leaning towards agreeing with you. That said I'm wanting a pro's oppinion on this one! If he says no I'm ok with that.

Brett

Don`t thin k it is, looks a bit immature to me.

In the Zambezi valley shoot now << in matetsi pass

I agree with Ross-The Zam Valley for sure, Save, Matetsi, Masailand pass

But that's the thing isn't it? These lions almost have to be valley residents, they have the look....

I would shoot him unless the PH said he wasn't a trophy as I know nothing of lions. I like his very rugged looking face.

Your question Andrew is really two-fold, IMO. Would I personally shoot him, well, depends on where I was hunting? Do I think he's old/mature enough to make an acceptable/quality trophy, ABSOLUTELY!! Would I ever shoot a lion, and be ashamed, or apprehensive to post him on AR, or anywhere else, heck no!! If you are, that should tell you something about your lion. Would I be happy with this lion as a trophy, yep!!

I will say this though, if I was guiding/hunting in TZ, with the new 6 yr old LAW, I would absolutely wait until I could see more. Its the law!!!

Good call most of you and the Zim hunters know their Lions. This is in fact a pride male and was recently photographed in Lower Zambezi.



When i first saw photo one I guessed about a four year old but having seen a number of photographs and indeed some excellent video of this male responding aggressively to another I changed my mind and added a couple of years. Therefore he would be a taker once removed from the pride.

This is little more than an illustration to show that for us PH's often light (or lack of) angle of head etc can be confusing when guessing age. Most Lions in hunting concessions are secretive and a quick glimpse as in the first photo is often all you will get.

Safari Lawyer you missed out mate.

What age say the Zim chaps?

Looking at all the pics posted, and the last one is awesome by the way. I'm confident he's well over 6 yrs old. His pride status might make him a non-shooter, but certainly not his age or trophy quality. JMO.

Dtala, that's a funny post.


Dutch