Where has Ray gone and has anyone heard from him?

If you are talking about Ray Atkinson I think he quit posting here after being attacked about a mule deer hunt he advertised in Outfitters forum. I do not know what all the fuss was really about but I guess he decided that it was not worth all the headaches. Too bad, he had some good info. to pass along.

He posted yesterday on 24hourcampfire.

quote:

I think he quit posting here after being attacked about a mule deer hunt he advertised in Outfitters forum.

Ray had been at the sharp end of the stick several times here.....and I'm surprised he came back after the first round of accusations.

I take no sides here as I have no first hand information either way.....but It wouldn't surprise me if Ray is gone for good this time.

There have been several knowledgeable folks who have gone elsewhere because of too much testosterone and aggression on this forum. In the long run it's been a loss to those who stay.

I can see why he left, he was ridden like a pack mule here! I don't know what it is that makes people want to hide behind a keyboard and say things they certainly would not say face to face with anyone, and more specially with Ray. I think Vapodog is correct, I don't think he will be back either. He's been posting regularly on 24 hour campfire, However, that place is just as bad about gang banging anyone that happens to be chosen by a few of the sharks. It seems a feeding frenzy begines as soon as someone falls to the ground under the onslaught of a couple of back biters who are nothing but hypocrites themselves!

I'm not takeing sides in any conflict with Ray, or anyone else here,because as soon as I recognize the pissing contest,I simply quite reading it. It is just that I hate cowards with poison pens, who simply like to stir the pot, from the safety of their back room keyboards!

Our loss....he had lots of good insight.

Wow! A guy goes hunting and fishing for a month and 1/2 and comes back to what appears to be a changed forum. No more Ray and 500 Grains is even gone. What the heck?

quote:

It seems a feeding frenzy begines as soon as someone falls to the ground under the onslaught of a couple of back biters who are nothing but hypocrites themselves!

So, MacD, I guess this means that you don't believe that any VALID complaints have been raised on this forum?
Peter.

Way many valid complaints have been brought to this board, most of which should have and probably could have been resolved privately. You can do most anything on here except F*ck with Don!

Ray left because several people called BS on his posts and advertisements for hunts. He had trouble with clients at times, that were aired on AR. He "hired" a lawyer (a client of his) that posted as well. He quit posting for a year or so and came back the same as before.

Second, he advertised a mule deer hunt that would have been illegal based on what he advertised. Drummond Lindsey called him on it and Ray started the usual defense of name calling.

He then tucked tail and ran to the 24hrcampfire forum where he posts as if he were an authority on everything from gunsmithing to roping to Africa to cowboys to any subject.

He was his own worst enemy.

I do not know about Atkinson but 500grains got a little out of hand on the Political Forum with some comments and posts that were racially prejudicial and inflammatory to the point of being obscene. He was warned repeatedly and finally banned. No fault but his own. He does not own the website and this is not a democracy on the internet. Same thing has happened as a result of the actions of other posters.

quote:

Originally posted by Vinny:
I do not know about Atkinson but 500grains got a little out of hand on the Political Forum with some comments and posts that were racially prejudicial and inflammatory to the point of being obscene. He was warned repeatedly and finally banned. No fault but his own. He does not own the website and this is not a democracy on the internet. Same thing has happened as a result of the actions of other posters.

It seems that deplorable behavior on the Political Board is punished or tolerated based on unpublished criteria, as some remain there depite their inablity to post in a remotely civil manner, so some might conclude 500grains was singled out for other reasons -- in particular for getting crossways with The Management.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

It seems a feeding frenzy begines as soon as someone falls to the ground under the onslaught of a couple of back biters who are nothing but hypocrites themselves!

So, MacD, I guess this means that you don't believe that any VALID complaints have been raised on this forum?
Peter.

I did not say that Peter, those are your words! As Die Ou Jagter says most any conflict can be handled with out crucifying anyone in public, especially when noone other than the two parties involved know shit about the conflict, other than the fact that the detractor likes one, and not the other, so sides that way, without one fact in his purse, other that the word of the one they like! Certainly they both cannot be right, or there would be no conflict!

I'm not saying that people may not have a ligetimate bitch coming, but it is the "pile ons" that is the problem. Nothing is solved by a Kangaroo court, no matter the side one hopes will win. Real courts are most times unfair enough,without resorting to a lynch mob mentality.

Mac,

Ray has been caught exaggerating (and I'm being kind here) many, many times, and on this most recent occasion, was offering a scenario that could have resulted in Lacy Act violations for the client.

If he's gone, he's gone. Some may follow him to his new home; I wager he'll be found out there soon enough.

George

Oh Charles you are sooo right, the Political Board is a garbage bin. You just don't want to get crossways with the Administrator. I have never had a problem wih Ray, I sent him a check for a rifle and he got back that it was a 416 Rem instead of a 416 Rig and ask if I wanted the rifle or my money back and I ask for the money and he returned it ASAP. When I met Ray in Dallas he seemed a bit gruff, but H*ll being that way myself I understand, we all can't be peaches and cream all the time like some here assume themselves to be.

I don't post very often but I read this board (and others on AR) every day and have for quite a few years. I like this site because it is not the ass kissing fest that other internet sites have become; one was mentioned earlier.

I have no dog in the fight nor do I want to get involved. With that said, I have read Ray's posts for many years on this and other sites and he seemed like a pretty good guy to me.

Maybe some of the accusations aired on this board are true but like Mac, I think everyone would be better served if they were hashed out in private.

Anyway, that's just my $.02

Landrum

Ray's problem was he could never admit he was wrong.

I think not posting is in his best interests; I certainly would never book anything with him given what he has posted about "clients."

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Ray's problem was he could never admit he was wrong.

I think not posting is in his best interests; I certainly would never book anything with him given what he has posted about "clients."

Agreed 10,000% !!!

I only had one dealing outside this forum with Ray.He went out of his way to help me out and he had nothing to gain from it.

But on this forum he has gotten into several "wars" that have ended with very questionable outcomes. Each time he packed-up and left. Each time he came back.

Kinda reminds me of AD. Of course he got sick of leaving "for good" time and time again, and finally left for real

quote:

Maybe some of the accusations aired on this board are true but like Mac, I think everyone would be better served if they were hashed out in private.
Anyway, that's just my $.02

Landrum

I think that there are very few times that the complaints are posted before the poster feels that they have exhausted their options. I really can't understand all the calls to keep negative experiences private.

I think one of the best things about the internet is that it can help people protect themselves from shysters.

If we only post positive experiences the shysters will have free reign.

Jason

I have booked and hunted with Ray twice, and would gladly do so again.

Both him and Pierre did a grand job of making sure everyone enjoyed their safar, whether out in the bush or in the camp.

Both our hunts were very well orgenized.

Sadly, the Internet has many keyborads experts, and some of us do not realize that we are actually dealing with wannabees, rather than with peoploe who know what they are talking about.

We do not have the luxury of looking into someone's face as we talk to him on the Internet, so all we can do is take whatever he writes as the truth.

One tends to seperates the real individuals with character, and those who should be avoided, as time passes, and one gains experience of their behavior on the Forums.

There are many here who I have never had the pleasure of meeting in person, but would consider as friends, and do listen to what they write.

Others one learns to avoid even reading their utterances.

This, I am afraid, is a fact of Internet Forums.

Saeed

I have no doubt that most of Ray's clients received very good service. If this were not the case there would have been many more complaints against Ray than the two that were hashed out on this forum.Many hunters here on AR booked with Ray on a repeated basis.

I have always thought of you as one of the most level headed people on this forum. But I have always wondered if you believe your experiences on safari translate to the experiences that anyone else on this forum could expect from the same outfitter. I would think that an outfitter or agent would be more likely to give you top level service because your large group means that they will make a larger profit.

Jason

FWIW,

I've been in the safari business one way or another for close to 30 years and don't have any kind of past or present business arrangement with Ray, and other than one recent occasion, haven't used any agent, paid any commission or made any donation of any kind for many years (certainly more than 10) and so don't have an axe to grind......... I can say however, that Ray is one of the good guys and this forum will lose out should he decide to leave.

I for one would like to see him back.

You know (if you have hunted Africa) Sh*t happens on safari, I have hunted with one PH for about half dozen times and I remember once a few safaris back when I looked at him and said "This F*cking safari is over I am tired of your shit". That was the third day of a 10 day safari which we finished and by the way I only took one trophy on that safari, common reedbuck, and I have hunted with him since.

One of the nice things about the SCI and Dallas (more so) is you do get the chance to go face to face with your fellow posters and find out each other isn't as bad as you may think.

That remark was in self defense.

I have never spent any money with Ray. I have enjoyed his company in Dallas and I look forward to seeing Ray and my other old friends in Dallas.

I have been on more than a dozen hunts booked by Ray.

I have never had a bad hunt and never had a problem with any of the arrangements.

The internet is no way to get to know him.

Although I've got no fight in this topic, nor with Ray himself, and Ive never met Ray and never booked any kind of hunt through him, but HERE on the INTERNET, he reminded me of a snake oil salesman with his constant pandering to the masses...That said, I would NEVER book a hunt from him, based solely on his actions and words he posted on here. He was caught MORE THAN ONCE in lies and all he did was comence to name calling and mud slinging, instead of owning up to his own mistakes.
Good ridance.

Anyone who posts repeated and strong claims and opinions on an internet hunting forum like this one needs an elephant hide for a skin - and a double thickness of elephant hide if he is going to try to use the forum for business purposes.

Not saying it's fair or unfair, just that it's the way it is, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Anyone who posts repeated and strong claims and opinions on an internet hunting forum like this one needs an elephant hide for a skin - and a double thickness of elephant hide if he is going to try to use the forum for business purposes.

Not saying it's fair or unfair, just that it's the way it is, IMHO.

Not necessarily. If you just tell the truth and don't lie about your accomplishments and experience you have nothing to fear. It is only when people repeatedly inflate their resumes and repeatedly get caught doing so that they run into skeptics.

There are a lot of people here that are skeptical of Atkinson.

Don't know much about Ray.

However I do know that 500 grains' input is sorely missed. There's no substitute for experience.

He paid the price for having an opposing view to the moderators.

I suppose it's another case of "do as I say not as I do" .

quote:

Originally posted by BulldogMaster:
Ray left because several people called BS on his posts and advertisements for hunts. He had trouble with clients at times, that were aired on AR. He "hired" a lawyer (a client of his) that posted as well. He quit posting for a year or so and came back the same as before.

Second, he advertised a mule deer hunt that would have been illegal based on what he advertised. Drummond Lindsey called him on it and Ray started the usual defense of name calling.

He then tucked tail and ran to the 24hrcampfire forum where he posts as if he were an authority on everything from gunsmithing to roping to Africa to cowboys to any subject.

He was his own worst enemy.

Summed up nicely. Good riddance.

I wish to support the above statement by George S, moderator.
May I add a comment about the Lacey Act.
In 1988, the role of guiding or outfitting
"services were added to cover a new threat to big game species under the ambit of "sale." Prior to the amendment, big game guides who provided illegal hunts were immune to prosecution for violation based on commercial activity. The amendments also created a separate and distinct violation for the intended falsification of documents pertaining to the exporting, importing, or transporting of wildlife, fish, or plants. The felony provision of this part of the act was amended such that one could be convicted if he or she either knew of the import or export of the species or where he or she was involved in the sale or purchase of wildlife, fish, or plants with a market value greater than $350."
Those of us over 50 years of age need to care in great detail for those who have not learned what we have come to know.
Sincerely,

Put me in the camp of someone that misses the knowledge represented by both Ray and Dan (500grains). As someone noted above, there is no substitute for experience and both gentlemen had plenty of real experience as opposed to many of the keyboard kowboys that seem to frequent the AR ranch who hide behind a screen name and have an opinion on every subject known to man despite having a complete dirth of relevant experience.

Ray's arrogance and comments about his clients showed him to be a classless Ahole. If you miss him, go get a comic book to read...it will probably be more factual!

quote:

Originally posted by Flron:
Ray's arrogance and comments about his clients showed him to be a classless Ahole. If you miss him, go get a comic book to read...it will probably be more factual!

Goddam, he sure did make a lot of enemies.

[QUOTE] ]Ray has been caught exaggerating (and I'm being kind here) many, many times[/QUOTE

Who has not exagerrated on this board?

I never spent money with ray, but i have met him and his friends, and I like him. he has his opinions, and doesnt hide them. more power to him, and anyone else who does the same thing without being a complete ass.

i miss ray, and hope he comes back!

I don't have a dog in the hunt on this one but for all those missing Ray he is posted a hunt on that thread

quote:

Originally posted by emron:
[QUOTE] ]Ray has been caught exaggerating (and I'm being kind here) many, many times[/QUOTE

Who has not exagerrated on this board?

I never spent money with ray, but i have met him and his friends, and I like him. he has his opinions, and doesnt hide them. more power to him, and anyone else who does the same thing without being a complete ass.

i miss ray, and hope he comes back!

Exaggeration is a very mild way of explaining some of Ray's posts. Flat out liar is the more descriptive term. And a nasty SOB when he got called on it.

I was sold on Ray when I first started posting here. But Ray and Ray alone proved to me that he was nothing more than a big talking loud mouth B.S. artist. You can believe whatever you want but he got to fool me once and that gentlemen was his last opportunity.

If you have any questions towards Ray's knowledge base with firearms ask him how he tried to solve his .500-416's regulation "problem". I'll give you hint, it involved a hammer a punch and a muzzle crown on one barrel. As far as I can tell the man is, if not a complete fraud definitely got a problem with telling the truth.

I heard tell, Ray is looking for Sheephunter so he can apologize to him!
"NOT"
I have no doubt that Ray has provided some good hunts for members here.
However.....
Any Agent/Outfitter that has an outright lie on his internet site to increase his bookings is wrong. I would never book with him or use the Guide. Both were advised of the "mistake" by PM. Both said, no big deal...
I disagree, I think it is a big deal.
If he would lie about his guide in Alaska, you reckon he would lie to Sheephunter about which Block he will hunt on?

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:

If he would lie about his guide in Alaska, you reckon he would lie to Sheephunter about which Block he will hunt on?

Many people have alluded to lies that Ray has been caught in on this forum. I wish you all would be a bit more specific abut the actual incidents.

I have been on this forum for a long time and I have read many tales posted by prominent members that were complete BS. Several years ago there was a lynch mob that would take you to task if you questioned the BS that was posted by one of their "pals."

There is no need to fear now. If you have something to saw you might as well say it.

Jason