Gents:
I have received a request from a very good friend to post here regarding information on Gordon Duncan. I have no personal knowledge on GD but SOAZ has (or may have) issued a warning about his business dealings.

My friend is unable to post here but he is known by most of you and has a very good reputation. He feels the African hunting community should be warned of less than ethical business practices. Your feedback here will be appreciated and let the chips fall where they may.

Cal

I have personally never heard of him. However, on AfricanHunting.com someone issued a warning and asked that the poster be contacted.

http://www.africahunting.com/t...-gordon-duncan.2281/

Have only heard good about him and several members here have hunted with him many times.

Use the Find function & type in his name.
Lotsa info there.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
I have received a request from a very good friend to post here regarding information on Gordon Duncan. I have no personal knowledge on GD but SOAZ has (or may have) issued a warning about his business dealings.

My friend is unable to post here but he is known by most of you and has a very good reputation. He feels the African hunting community should be warned of less than ethical business practices. Your feedback here will be appreciated and let the chips fall where they may.

Cal

Sent you a PM

I am not sure but I believe he hunts DOMA.

Cal

I never talk badly about anyone unless it is warranted and I can strongly advise you to pass on to your mate that should he do a safaris with GD will will regret it and he will end upon a very long list of super unhappy clients. I concidered pm you this info but thought it may be useful to other clients that may fall prey to him in the future.

He owes many people alot of money including ourselves and plenty of clients that have hunted with him lately have not got their trophies/ money back.I have just put a public warning through SOAZ about him- BEWARE

Buzz, others, and those that PM's me. My thanks as this illustrates the value of AR.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Cal

I never talk badly about anyone unless it is warranted and I can strongly advise you to pass on to your mate that should he do a safaris with GD will will regret it and he will end upon a very long list of super unhappy clients. I concidered pm you this info but thought it may be useful to other clients that may fall prey to him in the future.

He owes many people alot of money including ourselves and plenty of clients that have hunted with him lately have not got their trophies/ money back.I have just put a public warning through SOAZ about him- BEWARE

Thank you Buzz.

This is very sad to hear, and as always, we should stay away from the shady pros, and support those who deliver what they promise.

Buzz Charlton is 100% right, as AR members will discover now or later. Gordon Duncan owes me $ 7668 for 3 years now. He also owes a lot of money to a number of clients in USA & Europe and to a number of P.Hs and partners in Zimbabwe.

How is it that he owes clients money?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
How is it that he owes clients money?

Lots of way Larry, lots of ways.

I have no idea of this particular case, which I hope we will hear about.

I have to agree with Buzz. Gordon has unfortunately got himself in such a mess, he's never getting out. I do believe he owes half of Zimbabwe money and the other half have not met him yet. You have been warned!

Thanks Buzz!

Follow Buzz's advice!!!!!!

Well...I am only down an old landrover I lent him for a week 7 years ago...but offering to put up somebody else's landcruiser (without the ownerns knowledge) as a guarantee for payment is a new one even for me.

Gordon has had several bad breaks, trouble wit malitai/war vets, trouble from the army General who controlled Doma Safari Area etc, but most damaging has been that his paperwork has been poor and consiquently National parks will not alow the trophies to be exported...but the money for the hunt was already spent, so he then has to use the next couple of clients deposits to get the held up shipment out, and this has just spiraled down.

It is one thing to be a great PH- and I know Gordon is, I took him for His licence 12 years back - but a totally different set of skills to be a safari operator and dealing with masses of paperwork and 'the Zimbabwe Situation'. I know I would have been a poor operator without some guidance.

If anybody who has hunted with Gordon in the last two years have got their trophies I will
a) be surprised
b) phone Gordon and apologise for this post.

Zimbabwe is now a very expensive county and a hard place to earn an easy living. A man with a wife and two kids cannot come out on a PH's pay, even with good tips- and good tips usually come from successful and fun hunts. (many folk tell me they like to hunt hard- the results of inflow to my wallet sugest that very few do).

I could see this comming and steped back last year, I would have been hard pushed to pay school fees and medical insurance, let alone save for a replacement landrover and buying myself out of the 60k hole that Gordon is in (it could be more but is certainly not less) is virtually impossible with a hard to hunt area like the farms and Tribal lands to the South of doma safari area where he has his operation.

I met some Europeans just after their hunt with him and they were ALL so happy, with that said I never know if they got their trophies back.

Gentlemen, It is easy to see this is the result of some very unfortunate circumstances for Gordon, that has him in a hole he can't dig himself out of! That fact is just sad, however that fact also has a very sad effect on his clients, and others he owes money to.

Those who he owes will, IMO, never see a plus on the recovery side of his money debt or property. The biggest favor we could do for Gordon, and future clients of Gordon is to simply not book with him at all, and let nature take it's course. Gordon has dug himself a hole that is caving in around him, and the best thing we can do is avoid him like the plague, because anyone who does book with him is simply dropping their money down that hole as well.

The ones who have booked with him in the last couple of years may as well simply write their trophies off as a total loss, and move on!

Gordon should simply drop it, and find a job and let the chips fall where they may, because as I see it he has drowned beyond recovery.

It is sad that a good PH has found himself in this situation, but helping him dig the hole deeper is not a favor to him, or anyone who may book with him!

I fear all those he owes must simply realize that they will not recover, and move on!

........................................................................ When you find yourself in a hole stop digging!

Ganyana post is bang on! I am afraid that we have realized that we will not be recovering a single cent of the $16 000 owed to us as he is just not in a position to pay us back and never intended to in the first place. I can assure you that Gordon owes far North of 60K!

At the end of the day I feel it is our responsibility to inform all that we can about Gordon so that they are not also ripped off. My final action in this matter will be to make sure that Gordons hunting license is suspended. I did send a letter through our hunting association SOAZ and the numerous replies that I received form people in the same boat as myself has persuaded me that this is the right thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Ganyana post is bang on! I am afraid that we have realized that we will not be recovering a single cent of the $16 000 owed to us as he is just not in a position to pay us back and never intended to in the first place. I can assure you that Gordon owes far North of 60K!

At the end of the day I feel it is our responsibility to inform all that we can about Gordon so that they are not also ripped off. My final action in this matter will be to make sure that Gordons hunting license is suspended. I did send a letter through our hunting association SOAZ and the numerous replies that I received form people in the same boat as myself has persuaded me that this is the right thing to do.

Buzz,

Thank you for saving any future hunter from being ripped off like you and other have been.

It is up to us to make sure those who we know to be honest are supported.

And the crooked ones should be avoided at any cost.

I have been away from this forum for awhile and case mr GD is the main reason for that. Last time I was in contact with GD, January this year, I wrote this "report" as a final attempt to get my trophies moving. In the end the sheer amount of GD's unbelievable lies reached peak that went over my tolerance and I just gave up. I made a bad decision not to publish this and warn others. I was thinking that this could effect Phillip Smythe's reputation wrong way. He did his job great but was little bit gullible concerning infamous mr GD.. Now that GD's case is here open I can close my books with him. I still have some unanswered questions of booking agents responsibility is such a case? Anyway here is the story I wrote.

------------------
Dear fellow AR members. I have a problem that I was wondering if any of You could help me with. This is a bit of a long story, but bear with me.
My story sort of starts in 2005 when I first went for a buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. All went well and I got my buffalo. It took nearly four years until my buff head finally got home here in Finland Scandinavia. In the very same day when I put that shoulder mount on to my wall I started looking for another trip to Africa. And I found one. Aaron Neilson offered here at AR a hunt combo with elephant trophy bull and leopard at Doma Safaris owned by Gordon Duncan. I did my research by sending some inquiries to some AR members and all seemed ok. So I booked the hunt from respected member of AR Aaron Neilson Global Hunting Resources knowing that if any problems appears, he most certainly would help. The impression of men of his word was strong after reading his posts here.
The hunt took place in Doma area in August 2010 with PH Phillip Smythe and it was the hunt of my dreams. I was happy and I knew what will happen once my trophies are home, despite what my wife says. I will be back. Look at my last sentence of the hunting report I wrote back in January 2011.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...791064741#5791064741

Knowing that in different cultures time has different meaning, I waited. I of course did send greetings every now and then. Patiently having that former buff head experience in mind and knowing that it can take a while before Mr Duncan gets things line up, I waited. After one year I started asking for a reason for this delay and all I received was polite but, totally nothing to do with my trophies, stories. I also of course was in contact with Aaron Neilson who only forwarded my emails to Gordon Duncan and said he believes that Gordon is an ok guy and hopefully will someday send your trophies. And that's all he wrote. I also sort of kept my connections warm to Phillip Smythe who did start his own business; Ivory Trail Safaris. The very thing I discussed with Phill while we were barbequing elephant temple meat sticks by the fire in Doma under full moon. I was certain that I'm among the first clients Phill is going to guide once his operations starts.

Instead, here I'm writing this final report that I promised. Gordon and Phill were laughing about the PH and safari operator who made me wait four years for my buff head at my first trip back in 2005. I instead felt somehow sorry for the fellow because he was an ex farmer, lost everything and I was the first client of a new Finnish booking agent who was in Zimbabwe for the first time , who did not know how things worked. But during the period of four years when I waited my buff head, the Finish agent did everything to get my trophies home. And they eventually did deliver.
Very different approach this time. It's like everybody knows what the hell happened to my ivory and leopard, but are too ashamed or for whatever the reason, just decided not to tell me. I'm still so naive that I hope some arrangements can still be done. This is the main reason I waited so long to come open with my problem. I just can't believe that everything comes down to just dishonesty. Too big of a cultural difference among hunters in terms of keeping his word. Can't comprehend.
Questions is; Is this a common thing that clients trophies just vanish without an explanation and if so what in your opinion should client, agent, outfitter, PH, local authorities etc. do? So far nothing has been done at all. I know that there are many hunters here who have hunting experiences with Doma Safaris before and after mine. In the end, how did things go with you? You can also send a PM to me if you think that the subject here is somehow too sensitive.

So here we are. I hope some of you took time to read my story and hopefully have suggestions what needs to be done. Every advice or opinion is valued and most of all by the participants who are involved with the case.
Thank You
--------------------------------

Ps. Now that all of us know that we, the clients of GD can say goodbye to our trophies, can anybody guess what will happen to them? They will be burnt in pile, sold to east,...what?

I agree that agents should bear plenty of responsibilities and they should carry liability insurance that pays for this kinda stuff.
That way they'd be more diligent about outfits they work with if it affected their business and money making as well
They are big part of the business so there is no excuse for any agents not to do everything they can to rectify these kinda problems

In Norway all the agents travel and hunting has to be member of of an insurance fund (reisegarantifondet) that can refund trips if bankrupt etc. Don`t know if this situation will be solved by this, but it`s better than most countries I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I agree that agents should bear plenty of responsibilities and they should carry liability insurance that pays for this kinda stuff.
That way they'd be more diligent about outfits they work with if it affected their business and money making as well
They are big part of the business so there is no excuse for any agents not to do everything they can to rectify these kinda problems

+1...I thought that's why folks choose an agent to book

For the record I want to say once more that I was more than satisfied of everything that concerns hunting back in 2010 Doma. Reason for me to whine about is that my hunt turn in to the non-exportable mode. And even that's ok, shit happens, but the biggest lost personally is that about first three years went listening GD's lies and Aaron Neilsons reassurances and in the process I lost my interest in Africa. In the end and I tend to believe quite soon after my hunt, when it was clear for Aaron that me and at least some of his clients after me has been screwed royal by GD, the best he could do for us is to quit business with GD and hope never to hear from him again. And that's it.

I'm not in any position to tell how to run such a business, but some sort of a gesture on behalf of Aaron would have shorten the agony of forcing my brain not to think about Africa. I know I'm not alone with my opinion. Instead of vague "you tell me what can I do" answers over the years I finally found proper answers here at AR like;

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The ones who have booked with him in the last couple of years may as well simply write their trophies off as a total loss, and move on!

So, I have started to plan my next trip now. Sad thing however is that I'm not sure if I just had bad luck with people I have been choosing or is it Zim. Now that my leopard belongs to someone else I must try my luck with lion. And I mean luck with trophy shipment.

quote:

Originally posted by TrophyShotPrints:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I agree that agents should bear plenty of responsibilities and they should carry liability insurance that pays for this kinda stuff.
That way they'd be more diligent about outfits they work with if it affected their business and money making as well
They are big part of the business so there is no excuse for any agents not to do everything they can to rectify these kinda problems

+1...I thought that's why folks choose an agent to book

+1000!

Lahtari,

Due to your bad experience...I wanna make you SMILE brother!!!

I'd like to GIFT you with my Custom Enhanced Ready-to-Display 11x17 Metal Showpiece delivered to your door.

Just let me know when you get back

Safe Hunting!

Roland

What can I say. I'm smiling already. The number of private messages and sympathy I have received... I'm speechless.

I almost had forgotten how effective tool this forum is. However the negative feedback should be given after careful consideration, but maybe just a little bit less careful than my four years.

Thank You all.

All agents should respond to this and assure us that they have liability insurance in such a case as this and they would take care of any problems.
Maybe suggestion of holding agents fees until after the hunt is successful and trophies are in your possession, then they get paid?
Technically all the business is conducted here in US before the trip.
I think, that way there would be lot more honesty in this business
Funny how most of us here in US will not get paid until project/business is completely finished and usually retaining fee of 5-10% is held for year or so.
Hell, most of us don't even take money up front, period.

Crazy world gentlemen...

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
All agents should respond to this and assure us that they have liability insurance in such a case as this and they would take care of any problems.
Maybe suggestion of holding agents fees until after the hunt is successful and trophies are in your possession, then they get paid?
Technically all the business is conducted here in US before the trip.
I think, that way there would be lot more honesty in this business
Funny how most of us here in US will not get paid until project/business is completely finished and usually retaining fee of 5-10% is held for year or so.
Hell, most of us don't even take money up front, period.

Crazy world gentlemen...

Milan:

As you know, that is why I am creating my "Booking Agent Co-op" - if you don't like the hunt for whatever reason, you get the commission refunded. And if you have a great hunt to recommend to others, you get half the commissions paid to the co-op. Why not make some money for all those hunt reports? Write one on AR, and then post it on our website; we will then act as booking agents, assuming the outfit you hunted with agrees.

So how about it?? Going to book that Selway hunt?

Details to follow soon on my website www.envoyoutdoors.com

I agree with you AZ
I think the. Responsibility has a tendency to disappear very quickly especially on international hunts
I also understand, that agents are only middlemen and at times they really can't t do much in some situations
Life is never perfect except when we hunt ...