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| One of Us |
Personally, while I am disgusted with SCI, I will continue to support them. While it is often not publicized, they do some good at times. I will continue to go to the show. There is a very simple reason. It is fun and I get to see my friends. I have also come to the conclusion that, regardless of the behavior of the organization, they simply do not have the horsepower. | |||
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So I have another question out of ignorance, with regards to the outfitters who do the SCI show: 1. Is every outfitter solicited by SCI (pressured maybe?) to donate a hunt? 2. What happens if you tell them "no thanks" and why? I have heard they eventually relocate you and your booth to a less than desirable location but that may not be true. 3. If an outfitter receives a bill for funds due on an auctioned/donated hunt, as in the examples above, what happens if the outfitter tells SCI to take a hike and does not pay, or accept the "funds due" bill? | |||
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While things may be changing for the reasons Aaron notes above, my understanding as of now is that there is still a waiting list of those who wish to have a booth at SCI. When demand outstrips supply, the seller holds all the cards. Obviously SCI is the seller in this case and as such can, for better or worse, do whatever it wants. My understanding, subject to correction, is that any new business/person wanting a booth had better be prepared with a donation. This includes those who are still relatively new to the show. I do know of one outfitter who has been at the show for a long time who told me last year they've told SCI they will no longer donate. His booth location was without question not in what I think anyone would consider a prime spot. | |||
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Booth location goes hand in hand with the value of the "donation" or better, "extortion", and it applies to all participants be they old or new. | |||
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Yes, as mentioned that outfitter has been annually at SCI for a long time. | |||
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SCI booth assignment is actually pretty straightforward. It's been explained to me by multiple operators, and is what it is. Your total lifetime support ($) for the entity is totaled up and the highest total value gets to pick first and then they go down from there...so if you have been there forever, you get better spots than if you are a newbie, unless you really donate a lot. It sounds like the org is starting to crack down on donor's stated value vs actual value and is expecting the donor to make up the difference if they claim it is worth a lot more than what they auction it off for. From another group I am involved with, this may actually be more driven by the US IRS than SCI being jerks... So, if you are a new, poorly capitalized company and you want in, you have to donate a bunch of hunts instead of just paying cash to get on the list. The booth itself may be some nominal money (so if you have been there 30 years you do have to pay something...) but your size and location are dependent on getting past the bar for admission... And if you want a good location, well it's even more. I am sure that like any other NPO group there are some friends who get treated better by cronyism, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. | |||
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| one of us |
Folks, Dr. Butler pretty much has it right. Booth assignment is based on points and points are accrued by longevity, floor displays and value of donations. The exhibitor with the most points gets the first pick of booth locations. If you donated an auction item that did not go for the cash equivalent of the minimum donation they you would be responsible for the balance. With this system a new exhibitor can for instance donate a $250,000 item and if it brings $200,000 at auction he could jump up dramatically in the list and have a pick of booth locations above many with more seniority. Fair or not this is the system and operators are standing in line to exhibit. Personally I like the record book as it let's folks know what makes a good trophy and what does not and I don't see how the book could continue without there being some acknowledgement for the hunters entering their trophies. On the other hand I agree the system does seem to be far more about self aggrandizement and a competition than anything else. I also agree it projects a counter productive imagine for the organization and hunters in general. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I see no problem with the record book. it is useful. | |||
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I agree on the record book , but would prefer to see it handled more like Rowland and Ward and raise the standards for entry. | |||
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I like the record book too, and I agree with Mark that it provides a good benchmark on trophy quality and gives good information on geographic areas... BUT...Big BUT..unlike B&C or P&Y SCI has all sorts of pen raised/BOMA raised everything mixed in which skews reality and relativity. | |||
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Darn it! I remember getting the survey and I just deleted it without another thought. Now I would like to have the opportunity to tell them my thoughts on the ridiculous awards! Any ideas on how to get the survey back? I checked their website but it has been minimalized until closer to the convention. | |||
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| Administrator |
I just got my copy of SAFARI magazine. Nothing in it apart from awards and adverts!! And they really think we should take them seriously??  | |||
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From SCI's website.... "We can give you plenty reasons to join. But don’t just take our word for it, this is what some of our members had to say in a recent survey: "SCI is proactive in protecting my hunting rights, and the annual convention gives me exposure to many outfitters and sources for my hunting and fishing trips." "SCI is the best proactive hunting, conservation and educational organization in the world. It not only emphases local, state and national, but also international." "I believe it is the responsible thing to do as a member of the hunting community: Support organizations that protect wildlife conservation and hunting." So perhaps the purpose of the survey is to get you to write their ad copy for them. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I bet all the above are just bloody lies, made up by ad copy writers! | |||
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Don't you just hate it when you are always right? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Saeed and all, That magazine was what prompted me to start this discussion. I felt that most of the awards are pure garbage and mean nothing. It is truly pathetic. Reminds me all of the awards for the entertainment industry - Oscar, Grammy, CMA, and the rest of the trash. Followed by all of the sports award shows.... | |||
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| One of Us |
I did get the survey and stated the awards program and its circles is a detriment to hunting, and is not why I hunt. The bird thing is pathetic. I rejoined for a year after being away from SCI for several years, hoping they had changed. The SCI magazine is about the banquet, awards, and high end items I have no desire to purchase. I have never seen an organization so tone deaf to what goes on around them. DSC gets my money. The danger of civilization, of course, is that you will piss away your life on nonsense | |||
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I received the e-mail survey request, looked at it and have not responded yet....thinking about how to have the most impact!! Clearly, the AWARDS PROGRAM is simply a money making endeavor and enjoyed by those who wish to have the personal recognition. I knew Jack and Casey Schwabland who endlessly worked to develop a new system to measure trophies and truly to historically record trophy species and locations they were collected. There is some benefit for scientific studies of game species, however it is NOT all inclusive so a lot is left unrecorded...or lost for scientific purposes. SCI, DSC and NRA has a HUGE TASK to educate the uninformed about the benefits of hunting and the funds it raises to support all wildlife...and TO CURB POACHING!! If this message isn't broadly published to a point of being overbearing like HSUS...and even refuting their message and misuse of donations....our Goose is Cooked...in our lifetime!! Here is the bottom line- HOW DO WE FUND A MAJOR CAMPAIGN TO TURN THE TIDE OF THE ANTIS??...presently they are WINNING!! Cheers, 470EDDY | |||
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SCI- convention = fun record book = somewhat useful awards = ammo for the antis USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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That sums it up perfectly. | |||
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Here's a good example of why many of us are opposed to the "awards program." One of my clients took a world record African Antelope. His PH urged him to have it scored as he claimed it would be in the top 5. My client had no idea, and frankly, other than his PH's request, really didn't care. I rough scored it (he asked for SCI) and advised him he'd need to get an SCI master scorer to do this as I'm not a master. I told him it definitely would make the top 3 and if he wanted to enter it in SCI record book, he should pursue it. He let several years roll on and by chance he found a master scorer living not far from his new home. It was scored and was listed as the #1. As the award program came about, he was awarded two trophies @ $2,500 each. My client could pay this without thinking twice about it, but laughed and said, "Hell no, I'm not paying $5,000 for that!" He had the certificates framed along with photo's of the animal and trophy's. They look great hanging in his trophy room. I've known award chaser's my entire adult life, and although I score for SCI and RW, the only personal trophy I've ever had officially scored was a Whitetail deer I took with an 1863 Springfield rifled musket that I used to reenact civil war events with. He took 1st place that year and the TWRA (TN game & fish) gave me a little ribbon and certificate. Didn't cost me a dime  LDKGray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Ive always felt surveys were for the lost, trying to find a bearing. | |||
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. . . or for those looking for an excuse to do or not do something that they already intend to do. Mike | |||
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I'm member because they do good most of the time Nobody is perfect I enjoy Vegas and local chapter as well " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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So he won an award BUT had to pay for the trophy's Who does that? Every club I've been involved with, if you got an award the club pays for the trophy.------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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| One Of Us |
David, As I said earlier....MONEY MAKER, this is the BIGGEST example I have seen yet...that said, have you seen the limited edition Bronzes that SCI has commissioned to commemorate these awards...??!! pretty impressive in the trophy room....AND to beat your Buddies in THE 'MINE'S BIGGER THAN YOURS IS!!" game....  470EDDY | |||
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It depends on what work looks like next year. I might go, I might not go. I have friends from Europe that like to go, and we are 3 hours away, so if they are going I might go. I think the outfit is crooked as Hillary. | |||
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