New SCI survey

" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”

29 June 2016, 05:34

Poyntman

Hmmm
I didn't see unless I accidentally deleted. Knowing that I want to look for it to give them an earful as well
This has become a perfect example of what makes "trophy hunters" look bad.
Not only that they seem to have doubled down recently coming up with silly categories like "game pigeons of the world"

29 June 2016, 15:34

INTREPID SAFARIS

Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

29 June 2016, 18:07

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

A donated hunt has a value which is normally calculated on a cost only basis and if SCI undersold by $800 that would be their problem and not yours.
Ungrateful, greedy, incompetent - no better words to describe SCI.

29 June 2016, 18:53

Leopardtrack

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I just got a survey about the awards program. Did anyone else get it?

I gave them an earful.

Same here Larry! I hope that they respond to it.

29 June 2016, 21:11

Gatogordo

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

Incredible. Did you sign a contract about this?

It would seem to me that if they have to get a certain amount of money for a FORCED HUNT DONATION, then they should start it at that figure.

xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.

29 June 2016, 21:18

Greg Brownlee

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

I received the same letter.

Greg Brownlee
Neal and Brownlee, LLC
Quality Worldwide Big Game Hunts Since 1975
918/299-3580
greg@NealAndBrownlee.com

www.NealAndBrownlee.com

Instagram: @NealAndBrownleeLLC

Hunt reports:

Botswana 2010

Alaska 2011

Bezoar Ibex, Turkey 2012

Mid Asian Ibex, Kyrgyzstan 2014

29 June 2016, 21:18

Saeed

SCI has nothing to offers us as hunters.

I have been saying it for years, they are bunch of self serving, self glorifying bunch of ignorant idiots!

29 June 2016, 21:43

458Win

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

I would tell SCI that you are sending it off to the purchaser of the hunt and to contact them in the future !

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

29 June 2016, 21:44

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

Are you kidding me!?!?!?! Now donors are responsible for the money raised by their gracious donations, wow!

29 June 2016, 22:58

Leopardtrack

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
SCI has nothing to offers us as hunters.

I have been saying it for years, they are bunch of self serving, self glorifying bunch of ignorant idiots!

I am starting to agree with that sentiment Saeed!

I think that awards are ridiculous, and it harms the image that we as hunters are trying to defend. The killing of an animal becomes just another contest for rich guys.

I bet that you killed more Buffalo than anyone alive today, yet I NEVER heard you brag about it.

We shouldn't need to have our ego's stroked by getting a stupid metal trophy handed to us in front of our adoring fans.

Hunting and Killing is sacred. I do it for myself and I seek NOBODY's approval or recognition.

The whole "Awards" thing makes me sick!

30 June 2016, 00:47

Beretta682E

quote:
Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Sorry to say but SCI is loosing the plot... I just got a BIG THANK YOU letter from them thanking me for my hunt donation I HAD TO MAKE IN January, with a bill for $800 stating that MY DONATION did not bring in enough I owe them $800!!!!!!

Why I will never join sci or ever go to its convention.

Mike

30 June 2016, 01:10

larryshores

I will at least have to give SCI credit for asking some of the right questions in the survey. What they do with it is a different story.

I have heard of the billing the donor before. I conceptually understand what they are doing. I don't agree with it but I understand what they are doing.

30 June 2016, 01:24

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I have heard of the billing the donor before. I conceptually understand what they are doing. I don't agree with it but I understand what they are doing.

I think we all understand what they are doing Larry, its called FLEECING!

30 June 2016, 01:39

twoseventy

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I have heard of the billing the donor before. I conceptually understand what they are doing. I don't agree with it but I understand what they are doing.

I think we all understand what they are doing Larry, its called FLEECING!

Yes, exactly. Donors are somewhat complicit, however. Read the contract and don't sign it if you don't like it. The booth is not that lucrative. Or, is it?

...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, duke of York

". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

Cogito ergo venor- KPete

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations”

30 June 2016, 01:58

crbutler

Sorry, Aaron, it's only fleecing if it was a consistent changing of what the deal was. What did the contract say?

I get that lots of folks don't like SCI.

I get that their public persona is that this is all a voluntary association of hunters and they act behind the scenes like the US IRS.

I also think it likely that you would be paying to go regardless...

I filled out the survey. I too have my concerns, but I also realize that a single hunter from MN is not going to change what they do.

If they get enough commentary I would expect to see some change, but one also has to remember that this crowd here (on AR) is not representative of SCI's membership as a whole.

30 June 2016, 02:37

larryshores

When SCI came up with that lame brain booking agency idea, a lot of hell was raised. Some of us were right in the middle of it.

One of the things that results was another survey. I have never heard a word about the results. Has anyone?

30 June 2016, 02:58

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Sorry, Aaron, it's only fleecing if it was a consistent changing of what the deal was. What did the contract say?

I get that lots of folks don't like SCI.

I get that their public persona is that this is all a voluntary association of hunters and they act behind the scenes like the US IRS.

I also think it likely that you would be paying to go regardless...

I filled out the survey. I too have my concerns, but I also realize that a single hunter from MN is not going to change what they do.

If they get enough commentary I would expect to see some change, but one also has to remember that this crowd here (on AR) is not representative of SCI's membership as a whole.

CR - Obviously I understand the contractual obligation, and I know that you too understand my point! I voluntarily forfeited my SCI booth, and I doubt I'll ever try to get another one. The hypocrisy has simply reached a point beyond which I can bear.

30 June 2016, 04:13

Poyntman

Well, I got the survey just about an hour ago today.
I blasted the Hunting Awards as Antithetical to our interests. I find it interesting that they asked if you attend convention or specifically book hunts with this in mind.

I put in the "other" reason box that Among other things they create artificial demand for what many consider the very worst in hunting and in Us As hunters.
Examples include artificial color variants being included in grand slams, promotion and inclusion of captive bred and high fence hunting for many species.
Pay to play killing and glorification among a small group of constituents (real or perceived)

30 June 2016, 04:16

Leopardtrack

quote:
Originally posted by Poyntman:
Well, I got the survey just about an hour ago today.
I blasted the Hunting Awards as Antithetical to our interests. I find it interesting that they asked if you attend convention or specifically book hunts with this in mind.

I put in the "other" reason box that Among other things they create artificial demand for what many consider the very worst in hunting and in Us As hunters.
Examples include artificial color variants being included in grand slams, promotion and inclusion of captive bred and high fence hunting for many species.
Pay to play killing and glorification among a small group of constituents (real or perceived)

It has become pathetic

30 June 2016, 04:23

Frostbit

Only reason we even attended SCI in Vegas last year was to be able to visit with many friends from around the world and country all in one spot. Probably cost us a grand for that pleasure. No more!!

______________________
DRSS
______________________
Hunt Reports

2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141

30 June 2016, 04:29

MJines

As Larry knows, when SCI sent out the email notice that they were establishing the "Game Birds of the World" awards program and that you could get the Grand Slam of North American Quail, the Grand Slam of Northern American Dove, etc., I declared the leadership of SCI to be completely and utterly tone deaf. That said, I am hopeful that they will consider expanding the awards program to include insects in the near future. With all the rain we have had in Houston, I am looking forward to booking some hunters for Gold Medal cockroach hunts . . . rest assured my booking contract will be long and one-sided.

30 June 2016, 05:17

larryshores

Mike, I have to agree with you. I was rather astounded by these new awards programs. But just when I think they do not get it, the survey shows up with questions which make me think they might be starting to realize that the awards are a problem.

I think in the final analysis, the issue is money. The awards raise a significant amount of money apparently. I have always been of the opinion that if SCI was truly "First for Hunters", revenues would not be a problem.

I have been invited to the awards program several times. I just can't stomach it.

30 June 2016, 05:35

MJines

You can make a case that their revenue problem is actually driven and fueled by things like the awards programs, the high cost of attending the convention, the name, etc. There is a reason that they only have 50,000 or so members . . . they do not strive to be inclusive. How about raising revenues by making membership affordable, making attending the convention affordable for families, promoting inclusion and canning elitist notions like the name of the organization (yes I know they went to SCI, and everyone still thinks of them as Safari Club International) and its magazine, etc. Rather than grow the base they seem to focus on how to make more money off the existing base. It's a business plan for a dying organization.

30 June 2016, 05:37

larryshores

I am afraid you are right.

30 June 2016, 06:46

jdollar

None of this idiocy is a surprise. SCI just doesn't get it and hasn't for a long time. It's all about perks for the board members at the average member's expense. And where are the usual cheerleaders defending the game birds circle jerk awards??

30 June 2016, 07:01

dogcat

Got it as well. I blasted the awards program. Will likely never attend and will not rejoin.

30 June 2016, 07:03

JGRaider

If this happend to Greg Brownlee and Intrepid, I'm certain there are many outfitters that got the same demand letter.

If enough of you guys tell SCI, as Aaron has done, to stick it where the sun don't shine, how would SCI react?

I'm astounded by the stance SCI has taken on this.

30 June 2016, 07:05

Michael Robinson

I am a life member. I completed the survey.

My answers were critical of the silly "awards" program. Both in terms of its inapplicability to hunting and its negative portrayal of hunters.

I commented that hunting is a personal and private pursuit, and should not be the subject of an ostentatious competition.

I will not hold my breath until they abolish the hunting awards.

30 June 2016, 07:49

Saeed

quote:
I commented that hunting is a personal and private pursuit, and should not be the subject of an ostentatious competition

Exactly!

Sadly, there are far too many individuals in teh top SCI who do not look at hunting as we do.

It has become such a childish competition of "mine is bigger than yours" to the extent that common sense has been thrown out of the windows.

Farm raised animals, animals that have been captured and transported to other locations - even other countries - are used to meet the sick demands of this culture of more money than bloody brains or self respect.

I think this is not the first time they have sent out this sort of pointless survey.

Can anyone please tell them what their claim "FIRST FOR HUNTERS" means?

They have no clue what it means.

Their moto should be "FIRST FOR ME, ME, ME"

I have been a Life Member since the early 80's

30 June 2016, 08:02

Frostbit

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
You can make a case that their revenue problem is actually driven and fueled by things like the awards programs, the high cost of attending the convention, the name, etc. There is a reason that they only have 50,000 or so members . . . they do not strive to be inclusive. How about raising revenues by making membership affordable, making attending the convention affordable for families, promoting inclusion and canning elitist notions like the name of the organization (yes I know they went to SCI, and everyone still thinks of them as Safari Club International) and its magazine, etc. Rather than grow the base they seem to focus on how to make more money off the existing base. It's a business plan for a dying organization.

Totally agree Mike and I would add that they are a detriment to the average hunter's image to the non-hunter.

30 June 2016, 08:07

Wesheltonj

I completed their survey. I could not agree more about those awards, they are just bad news. I have said that SCI should sell the record book to Rowland Ward and get out of the record business. And they are going to stay in that business, then stop with the pink albino striped white tail deer with 6 legs award.

I personally would like to see SCI focus on hunting and lawsuit protecting my right to hunt.

I have never been to an SCI convention, its over priced for me to shop a hunt. DSC on the other hand, I enjoy attending, its cheap to attend and open to everyone.

30 June 2016, 10:37

cal pappas

How about a Grand Slam or Inner Circle for the siliconed SCI whores and porn stars they use to solicit funds at the convention?
Worthless, greedy, self-serving. All built on the money of the membership they look down at. They should relocate to Syria.
Cal

_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________

30 June 2016, 10:57

prof242

I had been a member of SCI some years back, then dropped it after seeing some of the board "activities." I said no more of this type of organization for me.

Give it twenty years later and a friend talked me into going to DSC's show. Hmmmm. Joined it and am happy with it.
Max

30 June 2016, 12:23

Saeed

A few years ago, whenever I mentioned anything negative about SCI, I was taken to task.

It seems the penny has dropped, and many people have opened their eyes to their crooked ways!

30 June 2016, 18:40

dogcat

So, what can we do?
Start a new org?
Move over to DSC?
Move over to NRA and their new role in supporting hunting?

I really do not see SCI changing their methods. The only movement I have seen was cancelling the agent business they started.

30 June 2016, 18:41

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by JGRaider:
If this happend to Greg Brownlee and Intrepid, I'm certain there are many outfitters that got the same demand letter.

If enough of you guys tell SCI, as Aaron has done, to stick it where the sun don't shine, how would SCI react?

The fact is, I think this is already happening and will continue to happen more - even though in some instances it may not be intentional on the outfitter / exhibitor behalf. African outfitters / agents are in general, some of the biggest exhibitors/donors at the SCI show every year. As we all here know well, much of African hunting is suffering badly - for a number of different reasons. If this trend continues, exhibitors will either continue to reduce their donations / booth spaces, or stop both altogether.

SCI needs to really focus their efforts on saving / protecting our hunting heritage, conservation and privileges - rather than worrying about some silly awards program. Hunting is NOT a right - it can easily be taken away if we are not diligent in our fight to protect it.