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I suspect than a properly loaded 7-08 would work, Bell killed a lot of them with a 7 Mauser This guy has killed quite a few as well and judging by his posts the 7-08 would work as well
_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I can also though, appreciate the senitments of those who have been up close and had a close call - for the urgent desire to rush out and get a bigger gun. Been there and done that myself 3 times. Bought a .404..left it behind ..sold it to a friend becuse it was never used...got charged, bought a .404...never used it..sold it. Had a close call with an elephant in a blinds...bought a .458 Lott- shot a hippo with it and sold it... In every circumstance a familiar and well used rifle has served me better than raw power. Yes you need SD. A bit of oomph matters when you are trying to break the spine on a buff from front on..you do need enough which is why legal minimums were introduced - to stop sportsmen people taking it too far. The pro's can (still) use what they like- and the more they are sucessfull with whatever rifle they carry the more they like it and the more succssful they are. Ammo failure is a reality - it happens. Rifle failure shouldn't. I have always disliked the .458 Win (becuase I nearly got squashed by my first ele using one, but I have warmed to it- for it is so easy to reload and so user friendly with reduced recoil loads that folk WILL actually take their pet .458 rifle hog or whitetail hunting and can afford to practice...too much big bore ammo is runionusly expensive for practice- cheap for the hunt- but not for a quick 200 round pre-hunt warm up. At the end of the day my oposition to the big bores is nothing more than the limmited ammount of practice that most client armed with them seem to have done. They have a flinch- either from the recoil in their shoulder or the pain in their wallets and haven't done the required practice - and often don't shoot well as a result. | |||
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I am taking my old Husky in 9.3x62 with Barnes 286 Triple Shock and leaving my Dakota 416 with the 350 grn. Barnes X at home. Took my first buff in TZ with Geo. Hoffman using his 416 Hoffman adn a 350 Barnes X. The Dakota is great but kicks the snot out of me. This 9.3 is easy to carry, shoots lights out, soft on my shoulder. I hope to lay a buff on the ground in Zim in about 10 days or so from today. It has bushwacked everything else we have tried it on. I trust and feel confident when shooting this rifle. I like the way it feels in my hands. The truth will be in the pudding I reckon. Better tomorrows! You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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Harry, From the few Buffalo I have shot, The 9.3 has given the same results and a few times even dropped them faster than from big bores. Here's one with an old Husky 9.3;  | |||
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I go with the bigger is better crowd with dangerous game, simply from a stopping perspective should things turn nasty. Ja, shot placement is the key blah blah.. Easier said than done when black death is boiling down and closing the gap on you and your puny 9.3 through the thick stuff...  I mean I would rather miss the brain with a .500 than a 9.3...Having said this, I hear what the guys who feel very comfortable with their lighter rifles are saying. Confidence in one's rifle is pretty much everything when it comes to shooting is it not? Like Ganyana, I know a number of PH's who have increased firepower because of hairy situations, the only difference being that they have stayed with that increased firepower! Yes Mr Jolly, I concur - as big as one can accurately handle. Good compromise plan there Mr ozhunter, can't fault hunting with the rifle you are most familiar with and having the no 2 tracker pack your big stopper for sticky situations. Okay so I agree with everyone. | |||
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Especially Will  | |||
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Spot on David except I carry the stopper and the Tracker has the light rifle. | |||
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And that makes even more sense | |||
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Ganyana, I shoot a lot of big bore rifles along with a fair amount of smaller calibers as well. I find the same thing you seem to! That being many people I see do not shoot big bore rifles all that well, and I place that on the same thing you do, lack of practice shooting. The cost of the ammo, as you say, is why they don’t hunt with them enough. That is the reason they never get completely comfortable with the recoil! Hunting with a rifle not only makes you a good shot, but gets you used to the recoil that shooting from the bench exacerbates. You can always tell the guy who has done all his shooting of a heavy recoiling rifle from a bench. This, IMO, is a client that needs a lighter legal rifle to hunt dangerous game. I believe that is why most, PHs when asked what rifle they would like buffalo hunters to bring, if bringing only one rifle, answer “a 375H&H bolt rifle”! I hunt almost everything with double rifles, and a 300 lb wild boar or a 200 lb muledeer falls just as well with a 470NE full load bullet through the shoulders as he does with a little 30-06. Hunting game at home like wild boar, and deer with your safari rifle makes you deadly when it counts in the African bush. It seems most think a big bore destroys too much meat and that is not the case, it destroys less meat than a little hot rock 30 cal. Even if it did destroy some meat it is worth a little meat to learn your rifle intimately. Of course everyone has thier personal preferance, and I'm no different, but Im willing to hunt with what is available and legal! ................................................................................... ........................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Good post _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Absolutely, your son will do just fine. | |||
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I probably would, but it wouldn't be the first rifle I'd grab out of the safe to take over. SCI Life Member DRSS "In those savage countries success frequently depends upon one particular moment; you may lose or win according to your action at that critical instant." Sir Samuel Baker | |||
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One irrelevant anecdote after another, Sort of like watching a pit full of crazies at the nut house. "I done killed a elephant with a .22. Ain't I butch." And all the hunters I've talked to that killed more than a hundred elephants ALL said they done used a .22. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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And if Criton had been killed, in six months it's "Criton, who?" "Anthony, who?" "Owain, who?" ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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It is well established that a 9.3x62's ballistic performance is enough to accomplish the task. Based on that criteria, I would not have a problem using it. Simple physics, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else is emotion, opinion and ego. | |||
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OZ, I do the same! If I'm hunting with a double and a bolt rifle I always carry the double, and give the bolt with chamber empty to the tracker, regardless of which is the largest bore. Having said that, the double is almost always the larger bore, but if they were reversed I would still carry the double. Because in a close surprise attack I would rather have two very quick aimed shots than one! However like most here I would rather have a big bore double than a 9.3 double in that situation, but if the 9.3 was in my hands it would get the barrel, or barrels hot in a hurry. I think several people here have misunderstood my voicing my preference for empty chambers as a safety measure. Because of this suspected misunderstanding, let me explain a little better. It seems most have taken that to mean I don't load the chamber till we are on a buffalo, and that is not the case at all. As was stated by one of the PHs in this thread, If using a bolt rifle I load the magazine, and leave the chamber empty and place the rifle in the rack in the hunting car. When buffalo tracks are found crossing the road and it is determined that the spoor is fresh enough that we might be able to catch to them, I retrieve my rifle from the hunting car, and if the country is fairly open I still do not chamber a round, and may carry the rifle on a sling or PH carry. If’, however, the bush is tight or the spoor is HOT, I will then chamber a round, safety ON and carry the rifle in both hands port arms. With a double rifle it will be completely unloaded till the bush gets tight or the spoor is hot, then it will be loaded safety on, and carried in both hands till the buffalo are sighted. Gentlemen I’ve around the barn a few times at my age and though I’m quite old I do not have a death wish. Heaven is my home, but I can assure you I’m not homesick. So you can be assured when an unexpected charge from his HIDEY-HOLE as BUZZ puts it, my rifle will be fully loaded because the only way the buffalo would have a HIDE-HOLE is if we are in tight bush or among large rocks. In that type country my rifle would be ready to do battle. I hope this clears up the empty chamber thing, if not well…………that’s alright because what I do has no effect on what others choose to do! ..........................................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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so riddle me this. if the said cartridge, loaded with a premium bullet that will penetrate straight and deep, is used and found to offer enough penetration to reach and destroy vital tissue it is somehow not adequate? how will additional diameter make it better? isnt a charge normally stopped by a CNS hit? if the answer is yes, how is diameter playing a role? shouldnt penetration be the most vital aspect here? Bob | |||
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As long as you are proficient with it, it will do the job on DG just as well as any of the other magnums of inferior caliber to the .375 (legality aside). It does however have its setbacks where availability of ammo is concerned - which is, to the best of my knowledge not readily available in all the African countries. So, whilst it is capable of doing the trick, the safest bet would be to opt for the .375 and eliminate any worry with regards to short-landed ammo or running the risk of getting embroiled with legal issue States side if you intend using it in those countries that have set the minimum limit for DG to the .375Mag. | |||
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maxenergy, a hit in the CNS will most times drop a buffalo or Elephant, but not always! It depends on how much shock is impressed on what part of the CNS. Sometimes it stops the animal that will remain on it feet, stunned for moments, then is shrugged off, and he continues his attack. Some times the CNS is missed all together, but the animal is put down because large major bones are shattered breaking him down. This last scenario is where the large heavy bullet shows it’s worth. There is no doubt that a larger bore has it’s advantages over a smaller, lighter bullet when stopping is the job at hand. Stopping and killing are two distinctly different things. There is no question the a larger hole, or broken bones is the benefit of using a larger caliber where stopping is concerned. This is not to say the 9.3X74R or 9.3X62 are not capable of cleanly taking any animal you are likely to run into in Africa or anyplace else on this planet, because it is, but that doesn’t mean it is better than something bigger if the shooter can shoot it as well. I will say again I would have no problem hunting cape buffalo with a 9.3! Elephant would be a different story for me, however!  ..................................................................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Worth repeating! | |||
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I know three professional hunters who have stated they see more dangerous game wounded and lost when a client is using big bore, heavy recoiling rifles than when the client is using something they can handle properly such as a 9.3, .375 or .416. One of them also states he sees no difference on any DG animal when using a 9.3, .375 or .416. Only when one moves up to .500 caliber has he noticed any difference in knockdown effect. I know shot placement is number one but suppose shot placement is equal with anything 9.3 up to .577. I would say the larger hole in the right place would be better than the smaller hole in the right place. I also know that heavy DG is not impressed by kinetic energy and that the hole in the right place is what counts. How well can a person keep his cool when a DG animal is charging? Doesn't this have a lot to do with practice? The local police forces, SWAT teams and the world's military forces all believe it does matter. I agree as well. Give me something I can practice with on a daily basis and shoot numerous rounds in as many ways as possible. A hole in the brain is a hole in the brain and I do not believe it matters what the size of the hole is, provided it is a legal caliber that can reach through to the CNS. A CNS shot is the way to stop DG. I can practice all day long with my .375 H&H and could do as well with a 9.3 x 62. I used to own a Winchester M70 in .416 Remington magnum and I must say that it was a little too much for me to shoot as accurately as I wanted to shoot. I was much more proficient with a .458 Winchester magnum with 500 grain bullets moving 2106 fps than with 400 grain bullets moving 2400 fps. I found the recoil more stout on the .416 and was therefore less accurate with it. Anyway, I believe there are many professional hunters who have witnessed far too many hunters who have not practiced as much as they should have prior to their departure to Africa. To sum it up, those professional hunters I know have all stated that lots of practice to allow for proper shot placement and the ability of a projectile to penetrate to the vitals of DG are what counts. Some here have stated if shot placement was all that counts we'd all hunt with double .22 long rifles. That is a silly statement as I do not believe the .22 LR has the penetrative qualities for DG. If KE and diameter is more important than shot placement then why are we all not hunting DG with 20mm or 50BMG rifles? It has a lot to do with what an individual can handle. Legal DG caliber, shot placement and penetration. By the way, the experience of these three PH's equal greater than 100 years in the field. Argue all you want as this is an internet forum. I'll bet any of you who argue the power factor, when confronted by these three gentlemen in a face-to-face sit down, would buckle to their experience. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, just stating what they have told me. Thanks, jfm | |||
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Very good post! Please excuse me for modifying your post so it is a little easier to read for me, and others that suffer from dyslexia! I changed nothing in your post only seperated paragraphs! SORRY! ........................................................................................................................................................ ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Very good thread with a lot of great information! I would hunt Buff with the 9,3, but like most and the consensus - if available would prefer a a bit more oomph. Funny how one can compare this similar to hunting deer with a CF22, which is often praised, it's all about shot placement, blah blah, but when the story turns to Buff all of a sudden a marginally smaller 9,3 vs 375 is often noted as a foolish undertaking  Could say pretty much say the same thing about Deer that SDhunter notes here on Buff, a good analysis.
-------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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Sorry Mac, but if the animal is only stunned then the CNS was missed. The fact that the animal was stunned means that one hit close to the CNS, but no cigar _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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jwp475, Mac is correct. You can hit the brain and stun it or it could still run off. It all depends on what part of the brain has been hit. I have done it on elephant. 465H&H | |||
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Sorry jwp475, but that simply is not true! The CNS can be hit and only paralyze one leg or cause the hind quarters to collapse then recover or partially recover over time. A bullet in the brain can cause only blindness, some times permanent and sometimes only temporary and sometimes death! The CNS includes the brain, spinal column and can affect any single part of the body, without affecting any of the rest of the body. The secondary nervous system is all the nerves that connect the CNS to the Secondary nervous system. Any one of those hit or traumatized, can cause either permanent or temporary loss of control of only one part of the body. The simple fact is all hits to the central nervous system do not result in death! Your opinion is close, but no cigar!  Of course it really doesn’t make any difference when you are shooting at a cape buffalo, because if you kill him you are out of trouble, and if you only stun him it gives you time to kill him, and if you don’t do either it gives him time to kill you, and he gets the cigar! ………………………………………………………………………………...................................................................  ........................................................................ ................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I once shot an Asian Buffalo through the side of the head. The bullet entered at the base of the horn to high too totaly take out the brain. Of course this did not finnish the game. The difference that we are having here is one of definition I believe. I considered that a CNS miss (very close, but a miss none the less} had I have taken out the brain the game would have been over, but I didn't and the game continued until the next shot _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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JWP- I think there is a differnece between buff and elephant. Buffalo have small brains and a hit always means lights out. IF the bullet has enough energy to break the spine from any angle and at least dislocate the spine if you nick a process then the round will do. Elephants are a whole different ball game and there is alot of the brain. And not all of it is necessary (as it is uncessary in people- look at the old practice of frontal Lobotamy's). I have seen elephants recieve a 'frontal lobotamy' and not die- this is particularly true for side brain shots- too far forward and you will put a hole in the brain and will make the ele wobble or fall down temporarily but they quite often seem to get back up. I have seen c4000 elephants shot on the culls and supervised the dissection of their heads for research purposes afterwards. I have seen alot (c400) shot by clients or appies on the exams or whatever and shot a few myself. Seen funny things with elephants...I will say that any hit to the brain stopps them. I have seen at least 20 survive what was later proved to be a direct hit on the frontal part of the brain...I know a small OR slow moving bullet does not cause sufficient hydrostatic shock inside the brain to always kill it. How well the said elephants would have recovered - don't know- they were shot again and disected! Also there have been two incidents involving bad people, a .416 rem loaded with solids and brain shots that caused local police to request outside expretise. In both cases said bad fellow took a .416 solid through the brain. One left a chunk of brain the size of my fist lying on the ground 5 paces from where he was hit (and cranial cavity was mostly empty) and then ran 70m. The other was climbing out the window when shot and the bullet left no visible entry wound (perfect texas heart shot). Hit the heart actually and exited through the top of the head...he ran off 40m and over a wall before collapsing. If some people can behave like chicken and go through the motions of movement without a brain- how much more so with lower animals? Like I say, I have never seen a buff keep going with a trashed brain or broken spine and I shot A lot of Buff on the culls that were being driven onto us with a helicopter. They were not 'charging' but were running straight at us. I found the 9,3 a nice balance of shootability and clout on those culls. I have seen elephant survive for several minutes at least after a fontal lobotamy...Do you need the bullet to be going faster so that their is more hydrostatic shock to destroy the brain or do you need a bigger bullet to make a bigger hole? I honestly don't know, but Saeeds pet cannon does both so if you want to hunt with that- BE MY GUEST. I am not! I consider the .416 rigby to be a marginal step up in terminal performance over a .375/9,3. If I wanted something with more stopping power that I have seen actually make any sort of differnece then you need to go to a .500 Jeffery or .500 A square. I have not seen enough game shot with a 450 Rigby/.460 weatherby to know if the extra velocity makes them significantly more effective than the .375/.458 Win class of cartridges. I do know that if I ever feel the need for something bigger than my 9,3 bolt or my .375 double I will get a .500 if I can. | |||
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Maximal tissue trauma and disruption is desirable for the most rapid dispatch of any game but particularly desirable for game that might turn the tables and dispatch you. While smaller calibers can do exactly that and have in the hands of many, we've just read that a few extremely experienced individuals have "brained" DG only to have that game carry on for a bit. For those circumstances, I'd prefer a round capable of smashing hips or shoulders with more potential to stop the elephant/buffalo/etc. before stomping me or getting away. The 9.3x62 might be able to do just that but I prefer somthing bigger. Somewhat unrelated - for people and brain shots - size does matter. One need only practice what I do in an area with an active "knife and gun club" where high velocity lead poising is a daily event to know first hand. But that's people ... Just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it ... NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Now, Ladies and Gentlemen, the above qualifies as real analysis. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Aye, and that is "real analysis" as opposed to "arm chair analysis" | |||
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100%, the words of experience.  | |||
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Mac, no worries. There are three professional hunters whom I've consulted on all of this and I will no longer take too seriously, many on this forum. As long as you can shoot reasonably well, I've been told, you will do quite well with the 9.3 calibers, .375 calibers or .416 calibers. This is you shooting alone (as in no PH help in shooting the game). I believe there are some on this forum who like to talk up use of the big bores on DG as a matter of machismo and whom would prefer to see the guys using medium bores go away. All I have to say about people that claim the medium bores are inadequate is to speak with Saeed who has hunted more than any of us put together. Talk to Harry Selby. Talk to Fritz Rabe who has posted here many times. Talk to any PH you know and they will advise everything I've stated is true. Anyone else who says anything different is just stating their preference. I recently got back from hunting cape buffalo in SA and found the .375 H&H with 300 grain SAF bullets to be an outstanding choice. Proper shot placement and penetration. Yes, I guess things could have gone south if I'd made a poor initial shot, but I didn't. Case closed. Buffalo down in 43 yards and death bellow after one shot. I know this is not a great sampling of kills but it is my only one so that is what I have to go on. Anyway, I believe the experience of numerous professional hunters trumps the experience of many on this forum. I will take them to heart. Thanks, jfm | |||
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I agree with you and the PHs on this fact! I find, especially with a new buyer to double rifles, they tend to want a .577NE or .600NE double though they have never even shot a double rifle of 9.3X74R before. This is the biggest mistake a person new to double rifles, or big bore in general makes. Where the general, one or two safari, client in many cases buys the first big bore he has ever even shot, much less hunted with to any extent! In most cases the guy we are discussing here has never shot a rifle larger than a 30-06 prior to buying a very large rifle for his first safari. This guy is one of the people who would wince when fireing a 338 Win Mag. Ganyana said earlier because of the very expensive ammo and the attendant recoil they simply do not shoot the big bore rifle enough to become comfortable with the recoil, or being able to shoot the rifle properly enough to consistently place shots where they are needed. The above is the reason when asked of a PH, by a new client being booked, what rifle to bring for a one rifle safari including cape buffalo, the answer is usually,” If you have one bring a low power scoped 375H&H with ammo having a 300 gr Swift A-frame, or Nosler Partition bullets, and practice at all ranges from muzzle to 200 yards, and you will do fine!” I can tell you that the only one shot kills I have had on cape buffalo have been with a 375 H&H FN Mauser rifle with 300 gr Nosler partitions. All others have taken at least three shots no matter the caliber or type of rifle, or bullet make up! Seeing no difference in killing power till you get to a .500 cal is a fact if the CNS is hit with them all, but there will be considerable difference if very large bones are hit that can’t be broken by the bottom two, the 9.3, and 375, and even the 416 with most bullets from those three. This is critical when dealing with elephant, where the CNS is missed, a broken shoulder, or hip will put him down so he can easily be dispatched. As long as normal tissue is all that is encountered the smaller rounds are as good as is needed, but if things go bad no bullet is too big! There was a time when all PHs recommended solids only for buffalo, rhino and elephant, but today solids are only recommended, by most, for elephant. Even the mono-metal solids have been redesigned so they are expanding solids in most cases today. Shooting even the .500NE requires some getting used to, and the only way to do that is to shoot them often, and hunt with them for deer and other things where you get field practice with the big bore. Once that big bore rifle is sighted in get off the bench, and do some hunting or simple stump shooting under hunting conditions! ..................................................................................... ......................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Lots of different thoughts and reasons. NO matter for me now as the paperwork in Africa says 9.3x62. If I post on July 19 Buffalo is dead and I am not! I feel confident with that rifle so it will just be up to me to 'git r dun'! You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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As noted a few places, if first shot does it, may not matter. I ask myself, would YOU (me) want to shoot a Cape Buff with a 35 Whelen, which is what the 9.3x62 is, essentially. My answer is, not really. I have a friend who killed a Cape Buff with his 264WM. That doesn't make it a Buff cartridge any more than doing the same thing to an Elk with a 243 makes it an Elk round. My friend shot his Buff UNDER The Ear. I personally would use something with more oooomph. Another guy here, has killed 2 or 3 Cape Buff with his 416Rem and 400gr Northforks. One shot each. The great new bullets, Ttxs, NAB, Swifts, etc. out there, have made some marginal rounds pretty good these days. But myself, I see using something like a 9.3x62 on Buff more of a stunt. A retired PH I know, who's killed literally 1,000s of Buff, used a 458, because he wanted to make sure the buff would be down and out quickly, and if things went south, he'd have enough gun to stop a charge, or whatever. If I were living in Africa, on my own land, and could hunt a lot of the time, and get up close (be capable of hunting right), I might use something smaller, and just put the bullet under the ear, at 50 feet or whatever. Would never use a body shot with any round, if the under the ear shot available. To me, to pay 1,000.00s of dollars out for a hunt, and take something because it might be cool to use, is silly. Just like I have folks say, why not use factory Rem ammo and the good ole Core-Lokt bullets, instead of that expensive stuff you make up with those high priced bullets. I can there, at least, remind them that my loading my own still makes it as cheap, or cheaper, than any factory stuff, and using a premium bullet makes ME believe, it will work better when it counts. Couple of $ for top quality ammo, cheap insurance. Since I'm an old guy who grew up in a different time, I see a 20 something as wet behind the ears, and should be directed to use what he's told to, especially if I'm paying the freight for the hunt, lol. And when I was in my 20s had been reloading for some time, and read everything I could get on the different rounds, etc. I just see taking a 9.3x62 as a buff gun, as being a stunt. Will it kill them, yeah, if bullet placed right (under the ear, preferably), but is it a DG cartridge? NO.. now, a 9.3x68, I believe it is, would be, as close to a 375. Personally, when I finally get to go for Buff, will take something real, like a 404, or 458. 458 can be loaded down to 45/70 to practice with and then resight with full house loads and taken to hunt with. Same with the 404. Speaking of the 45/70, Brian Pearce, who writes for Handloader/Rifle, took his 45/70 in a model 95 Marlin, using Cor-Bon ammo, to Africa and killed 3 Buffalo with it. Two of them he meant to, the one killed by the bullet that passed through the first one, wasn't meant to be killed. But his loads Cor-Bon solids that were 400gr bullets, tripping along at 1800+ fps, or thereabouts, not the 1200 fps stuff.. anyway, my long winded response.. | |||
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TySue I hope you get your hunt and with a suitable rifle. And while on the subject of a suitable rifle, a lot of people are happier these days with the 458 Lott or 458 AccRel. But the 458 Win and a modern, handloaded 404 will work. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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As you and others have said - practice alotwith what you intend to use on safari - and like you, I use my big bores on small game and deer here in the USA. Good pratice all around. As you and others have pointed out, even the biggest and toughest game can be killed with a single shot from a small caliber - posters in this thread point to that fact as true for some of the most celebrated/infamous hunters/poachers. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" - applicable in all walks of life; particularly in mine. The gust of wind, waving twig, change of angle, game movement, etc. that changes the "perfect" shot to something less so as the sear breaks and bullet flies. It's part of hunting. It has happened or will happen if you hunt long enough. If you watch the hunting DVDs or TV shows you've seen the most experienced hunters and PHs - people held in the highesst regrd for their knowledge, experience and skill - take more than one shot to stop an elephant or Cape buffalo or lion from either charging or getting away. And the recent tragedies remind us that the PH is just as human as we and might rely on the client's ability when the sun is setting ... This is dangerous game and so named for good reason. So ... Use the biggest caliber you can shoot precisely and accurately; practice enough with the firearm so that it requires no "thinking" to use it safely, accurately and repeatedly (i.e. recharging it); don't be of the mind that "my PH can finish the job if I get in trouble" - unless he can't due to unforseen problems (gun, ammo, injury, dealing with another animal bent on making you toe jam, etc). NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Addendum to my last posting. I've been to Africa 3 times, just not opportunity to shoot a Buff. The only one that I had a "chance" at was crossing back into Hwange park (then Wankie), and was right on the line, so didn't get a shot. If I go to hunt Buffalo, will take something suitable for shooting one with.. | |||
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Very well stated Sir! .......................................................................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting 9.3x62: Would YOU use it on dangerous game?
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