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In some parts of Africa they say "same mother....different father"  | |||
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But guys like you are the exceptions that prove the rule. Those "old standby's" are still around for a reason! just look at this thread: http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/1801003371 The "best dangerous game rifle for you" thread is practically a testament to those old standby's. (once again with a few notable exceptions) All this on a specialised african hunting & big bore forum. When you take into account all the african hunters that hit the field every year there are not many who can really handle much over a .375. So the old standby's will be around because too many clients prove them true every year. . | |||
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I am sorry that I missed this discussion. If a .375 is a medium medium and is a DG minimum, and the cartidge is loaded with a 286 gr bullet with great sectional density, then it is serving the same function as a .375. And the muzzle energy and FPS are sufficient with a heavy enough round for the bush or 200 yards with a great PBR. Similarly, the 404 jeffery in a 40 caliber 423 sized bullet does the same as the larger and more powerful magnums. So, I can go to Africa and hunt game and dangerous game with two rifles that are easier to carry(Bell), and easier to shoot and easier to practice with. That sounds like a plan. But, mostly, I will use next spring, a 7x57 or the 9.3 as I am plains game hunting. In fact, I could just use the latter and would be prepared to meet conditions in emergency with confidence. That practice and not flinching and not being beaten to death with high foot pounds of energy says something. Which is why I chose the 9.3 over the 375 - best, David | |||
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Thousands upon thousands of head of dangerous game have been successfully and safely taken with the 375H&H over the last 100 years. So you stuffed up or had a stuff up on your safari when using a 375H&H. With all due respect is it not better to fix the cause of the stuff up than to blame a cartridge which has a tradition and history on dangerous game as good, if not better than many. | |||
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Without a prick of hesitation - yes. That said, I have never seen an elephant.... I planned a lion hunt that didn't materialize. The gun I would have taken was a 9,3x62. Based on advice, I would have loaded it with Norma Oryx.
Precisely what I would have done and have done. Indeed, loaded with premium bullets such as the A-Frame, Barnes X, North Fork etc. (plus solids) it should be plenty gun.
Always helps. - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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Yes Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Yes i would use it .PONDORO TAYLOR never used a 7x57 that was KARAMOJO BELL . My friend DON HEATH used one for years never having a trouble with it ,ideed i used his excellent mauser domulin in one of our adventures and i killed many game with it. www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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Nope. I'm with Biebs,.40 or bigger for Cape Bufflo. My son is making his first African Safari in August with Martin Pieters and Cape Buffalo is his primary animal. He will be carrying a Win. Model 70 in .416 Rem Mag. I will be there and am very excited to share Africa with my son. I believe it is very possible to take Cape Buffalo with almost any caliber from .300 Mag. up, however, having participated in one "statistically unlikely" meeting with a Cape Buffalo, I refuse to tempt fate with my Son. I don't care what anybody else has experienced, I have my own experience to guide me. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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The rule is simple. You grab the largest calibre that you can effectively handle. Given the choice between a 9.3x62 and 416 Rem--you go with the 416 Rem. Period. Even someone 110 lbs body weight should train up for the 416. If the 416 were not available, or a doctor had limited a person to under-40 lb. recoil energy after a shoulder operation, then grab the 9.3 or a 338WM with confidence. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Even though they are more than capable in producing the desired results on DG, neither of the latter fall into the minimum requirement for most African countries. Its the legal nonsense that one may be faced with back home that puts a spanner in the works. | |||
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First I have no problem with hunting Cape buffalo with a 9.3X62 or 9.3X74R, but I'm willing to finish what I start. That being said! The above is a perfect example of the point I’ve been trying to make over the last few years with little success! The most common poor judgment I see recommended is to use inadequate rifle because the PH is there to save you! In Butch’s case he was adequately armed, and though rare this proves that there is no guarantee that the PH will not be the first one hit, leaving you to save his bacon. The mindset some seem to have that the PH is a 100% guarantee that, if you make a mistake, he will save you is your first mistake, IMO! One should always yield to the mindset that you are hunting completely alone, and be armed accordingly. When I have given a warning about many practices or action types as being tempting fate, the drill goes like this: “These things are so rare that it isn’t worth the effort to make changes! “ Or “I’ve used my ( you choose one) for 30 years and I’m still alive and I’ve never had that happen! “ Those response are fine if you are willing to live or die by that decision. To disregard these warnings for yourself is fine, but that disregard shouldn’t be recommended to others here on the internet. Even though some of the things are rare, they DO happen! Things like push feed jamming, or dropping a round out of the rifle, rimless cartridges in a double rifle causing an extraction problem or slowing a re-load or safeties that cause accidental discharges when pushed to the fire position. These are all known problems with certain things and brands and some may only rarely happen but are easy things to avoid by simply buying equipment that is devoid of these problems or using adequate rifles for the game you are hunting or may encounter. Though Butch was adequately armed, nobody even thought the RARE thing would happen that did happen in their case. Warnings about avoiding things that cause rare happenings are not just “The sky is falling!” warnings to be ignored or recommended to be ignored by others . .................................................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Ask Ganyana. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I would, but it is the largest caliber I can fire as comfortably as a rimfire, above the 9.3 and I have to focus to avoid fatigue and eventual flinching. | |||
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Don, you are welcome to modify my 30-06 quote and replace 30-06 with 9.3x62. Just finished up spring bear season and for a change all the hunters could shoot. the biggest caliber used was a 9.3 and the smallest was a .270, followed by a 7 mm Rem and both of those were Bang/Flop kills on big boars. The shooter and the bullets make more difference than the bore size Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I've used the 9.3 X 62 o Cape Buffalo in Zambia and NW Red Buffalo in Cameroon. No problems, and nothing that a .375 H & H could do better, that's for sure. I have found that 250 grn. TSX and RWS H-Mantle (if you can ever find them) are very effective. Leopard posed no problem, as expected. I would not use in on elephant, and in fact use my .450/400 double on elephant in preference to all others. I don't think the 9.3 is enough to bet my hide on with elephant. Buffalo, leopard, lion, no problem. | |||
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No I would not want to use a 9.3 on DG... I like big bores...really big bores... Do I think megga bore rifles are necessary??? No... I just like them and that's part of the fun for me... On the flip side I think it's equally unnecessary to try and use too small a rifle to evade recoil with the notion of having the PH there to automatically bail you out.. If I were a normal person wanting to hunt African DG I'd just have a 416 and learn to shoot it well...The reality is somewhere in the middle not on the extremes... | |||
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Given that shot placement beats bullet size every time and that a good bullet from a small bore beats a second rate bullet from a big bore....use whatever is legal (Zimbabwe, 9,3x62 is min without a special permit...mozambique it is 6,5!) then what you like to shoot- If you like a .500- be my guest- just make sure you have put in the trigger time on the range so that you can shoot your chosen rifle well. A couple of boxes does not constitute adequate practice....  | |||
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+1 +2 +3 Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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For those that brought a 9.3x62 to Africa, how heavy (or light) is your rifle barrel's contour? Dave | |||
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The same old baloney. All this stuff about shot placement being most important. Well, what about that wounded buffalo that whacked Owain? Whatever the caliber, a bigger one couldn't have hurt anyway. It's why the old-time elephant hunters used the big guns and NOT a 9.3x62. I took one on an elephant hunt one time. It is absurdly little when facing a jumbo. I switched to me 416 Rem. How many friggin times does it take to make clear that a .22 LR can kill a buff, but what the hell does that matter? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I am with the no crowd,have hunted Buff twice now,and although I like the 9.3 calibers,I would not use it on DG,so far I have used both a 470 & a 500/416 NE,both worked great,I would feel seriously undergunned with a 9.3x62. DRSS | |||
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I can never understand why this subject keeps cropping up. As long as it is just a hypothetical discussion on a website that's fine, but I bet that there are no members on here that would volunteer to stand a buffalo charge with a 9.3 if they had a choice of weapons. That is the bottom line, and weapon choice should be based on that (hopefully unlikely) scenario. I use a 9.3 regularly to shoot driven boar in mainland Europe and I have seen just how far they can go with a fatal injury. I wouldn't even dream of using that calibre on my African DG trips when I have bigger in the cabinet. Some years ago I shared a camp with a hunter attempting to shoot ele cows with a 9.3. His PH had to save their bacon more than once after the clients initial shot by knocking them down with his 500. Play arm chair hunting by all means, but when it comes to the real thing take as much gun as you can accurately handle !!! | |||
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If I was going to Africa for buffalo, my choice would be my .416 Rigby. However, if somebody plonked a 9.3x62mm in my hands here, I'd happily waltz up to any buffalo and give it a smack. I absolutely do recommend and prefer the larger calibres, but have been successful with smaller calibres (.30/30, .308, .300H&H, 6.5x55mm - seen .22-250 and 7mm STW in action - wouldn't do it again with these, except for the .300H&H shooting Hydros, and even then I'd want a mate backing me up with something more substantial). | |||
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Jolly, there is no argueing with your take on this subject because of course you are absolutely correct! That being said I always hunt with an appropriate rifle for buffalo, but my light rifle is always LEGAL to take that rifle's place if it fails to arrive, or developes a mechanical problem. In my case the big double I use is a 470NE, and my back-up rifle is either a 9.3X74R double or a 375H&H bolt rifle. I would not hesitate to do the whole hunt with the light rifle if any of the problems took place. Addtionally I have done buffalo hunts with only one rifle that being a FN Mauser 375H&H with working iron sights, and a scope in quick detach rings and bases that return to zero every time, and it has never worried me in the least! SO I guess you coulod say from that I would stand a charge with a 9.3 if I need to, and I don't think it would worry me that much! ............................................................................................................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I recently shot a lion with a 9.3x62 using 285gr softpoint bullets. I recovered 2 of the three bullets I fired and none of the 2 .458 Win Mag 500gr solids the PH fired. It was a charge situation and the PH fired at my request. All five shots hit the lion - 3 in vital spots, but he was alive enough to come on until the last shot hit his neck at 12 yards. It was "enough gun" but after the experience, I think a .375 or .416 would make me feel better. I think a bigger hole in the right location is better than a small hole everytime. I also think that the energy of more "mass" helps as well. As an engineer, we studied Newton's equation F (force) = m (mass) x a (acceleration) . For me, mass of the projectile is very significant as is speed. All assuming a well constructed bullet fit for purpose. | |||
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A good thing your "experience" wasn't with a buff. Otherwise we could of started a new thread about how little guns can't stop buffalo! Except on the internet. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Often even with the great 416Rigby and the like, unless the nerve system is hit during a charge it seems to matter not. If the nerve system IS hit then does it make a difference if the round is a 9.3mm or 11mm? Naturally for follow-up I would prefer my 458 or 470 BUT I do think an easy shooting, Optic wearing 9.3 makes a better hunting rifle. | |||
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In what way? Hey, as long as the PH jumps in front of you when it comes, why not?  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Perhaps I should have said "more efficient hunting rifle" (as can also be said for the 375). Don't get me wrong I to love hunting with an open sighted Big Bore BUT they have more limitations. That's why I'm taking both a 9.3 and 458 this season again. Preparation;  | |||
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I would prefer my 30-06. But why not? | |||
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I would use the 9,3x62 for buff, even if there is no backup rifle. It's a pretty good caliber as long as you use premium bullets! About two weeks ago I saw a hunter shot a big bodied cape buffalo with a 9,3x62. Two shots behind the shoulder and it ran for 80meters and died. | |||
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100% Oz Regards Stu | |||
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What would be really interesting is if we could get some of the big outfitters to keep a record of what clients actually bring... Many 'Talk' about using something big, very few seen to actually turn up in camp with one. From Craig Boddingtons survey a few years back I sem to recall it was about 75% in favour of a .375 and the remainder in favour of something else with the majority inclined towards .416. I have no objection to a client choosing a big bore- I have more of an issue with what are cheerfully descirbed as 'premium' bullets in some cases... Will- Every man I have ever met who has definately shot more than 500 elephants (Not me ) used a small bore except for specialised work. Most of those who have shot over 100 seem to favour a .375 except Ken Worsley (Likes an F.N. in .458 win) You might say that PH's encounter 'specialised circumstances' more often than regular citizen hunters, Ivory hunters or National Parks control officers (I think that is true) but almost universally due to poor initial shot placement. Buff die very easily when hit with 7,62 ball - if you hit them right the first time. Buff die very very slowly if they are pissed off, even if you put in 4 centre chest shots with a .577 (and then the buff tossed the hunter- it took a .500J through the gut to get it upset initially). I am happy with whatever the client wants to use provided that the bullets are good enough and the client can shoot with the rifle/sight/ammo combination. | |||
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Ganyana is spot on as usual. Gunsmith Jack Huntington and Shawn Davis both used 9.3X74 doubles on their Cape buffalos without drama. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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The 375 and 9.3 are so close balistically that what you say of ones buffalo killing ability equally pertains to the other. When on a serious buffalo hunt I like to have a scope sighted 375 bolt rifle if the shot requires a longer shot or one through a narrow opening in brush or the herd. Makes the shot much easier. I also like to have a large caliber double for a close shot or for following up a wounded animal. Having a larger caliber won't necessarily stop a buff charge. Two years ago while I was in Zim elephant hunting and within a couple of weeks of each other, two PHs failed to stop buffalo charges with the first two shots out of their 500 doubles. You have to place any bullet correctly or pay the price. 465H&H | |||
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Here is the ravings of a guy that just doesn't get it.
Shot placement was poor or the dangerous situation would never have occured. To stop a close range charge CNS is vital, and caliber won't make up for a miss. Here is a man that does get it:
_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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To the original question: Nope NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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On a leopard lion? you bet, on the rest? NOPE. As to the "shot placement is the key" crowd, in my view that is an invalid argument as the assumption is all the calibers in question hit in the same spot. If "shot placement" was a stand alone solution to all hunting, then the whole hunting world would be awash in 22LR Doubles as clearly why use a bigger caliber if shot placement is the only measure of effectiveness? the 9.3 is a "sweet" caliber (or so I'm told by the 9.3 cultists, but not one I would use as a matter of course on all DG. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Comparing a 22LR to a 9.3 is like comparing apples to concrete no comparison _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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So use 7mm-08, why don't they just use 7mm-08? A 7-08 in the CNS will stop an animal cold. But I prefer over 40 cal, because close does count for something with a larger diameter, and a fast, big slug has the potential to stop an animal in more places than the little slug or the slower slug, and of course, this assumes total bullet integrity. We should not shoot anything less at a buffalo. Finally, the wording on the question is WRONG. I would USE a 9.3 on a buffalo, but I would not CHOOSE a 9.3 when given a choice of a heavier hitter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting 9.3x62: Would YOU use it on dangerous game?
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