quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
You wanna offer up your kid to a wounded buff with a 9.3x62 in his hands?

Just dribble!

Stupid is like a tatoo. Once you got it, it lasts forever.

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
You wanna offer up your kid to a wounded buff with a 9.3x62 in his hands?

Just dribble!

Would you do it with yours stuey(if you have one) if he had a 375 or a 416 in his hands?

A wounded buff is a result of crap shooting(or bad luck). Not because someone has used a 9.3 instead of a 375 or a 416.
A 375 or a 416 will hardly stop a charging buff any faster than a 9.3.

I am totally sure your son will do very well with his 9.3x62 on his DG hunt GAHUNTER

Stupid is like a tatoo. Once you got it, it lasts forever.

Listen to Will on this. He knows first hand.

This is an interesting thread, basically contrasting those with tons of experience vrs those with little to none. Being on the very little experience side I won't comment on buffalo but will say that the difference between the 9.3x62 and the 375 H&H on our large brown bears is virtually none.

Experience is a great teacher and a life long Zambian PH friend of my sons maintained that he preferred his 30-06 over his 416 Rigby for following up wounded lions as everything happens fast with lions and the 30-06 was adequate and much faster to get into action.

I also received photos of a couple of buffalo my son shot on his own when he was working in Zambia -- and his rifle of choice? A 9.3x74R Dakota number 10 single shot.

It wouldn't be my first choice but I wouldn't stay home if I had to use one.

GAHUNTER. Four Africans (at least three are PH's) have replied to your thread so far and all support the use of the 9.3x62 on Buff. No doubt they speak with more experience than everyone else combined. Go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
GAHUNTER. Four Africans (at least three are PH's) have replied to your thread so far and all support the use of the 9.3x62 on Buff. No doubt they speak with more experience than everyone else combined. Go for it.

That fact has been duly noted.

I sent the link to this thread to Dan (my son) today. Like I said earlier, it's his decision. I just wanted him to make an informed one. If nothing else, he knows the importance of perfect shot placement, no matter what rifle he chooses.

quote:

Originally posted by jfm:
Stupid is like a tatoo. Once you got it, it lasts forever.

Listen to Will on this. He knows first hand.

It might be drivel, but I dribble too.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
This is an interesting thread, basically contrasting those with tons of experience vrs those with little to none. Being on the very little experience side I won't comment on buffalo but will say that the difference between the 9.3x62 and the 375 H&H on our large brown bears is virtually none.

Experience is a great teacher and a life long Zambian PH friend of my sons maintained that he preferred his 30-06 over his 416 Rigby for following up wounded lions as everything happens fast with lions and the 30-06 was adequate and much faster to get into action.

I also received photos of a couple of buffalo my son shot on his own when he was working in Zambia -- and his rifle of choice? A 9.3x74R Dakota number 10 single shot.

I would respectfully have to say those PH's, either real or fictional, are full of sh*t.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
This is an interesting thread, basically contrasting those with tons of experience vrs those with little to none. Being on the very little experience side I won't comment on buffalo but will say that the difference between the 9.3x62 and the 375 H&H on our large brown bears is virtually none.

Experience is a great teacher and a life long Zambian PH friend of my sons maintained that he preferred his 30-06 over his 416 Rigby for following up wounded lions as everything happens fast with lions and the 30-06 was adequate and much faster to get into action.

I also received photos of a couple of buffalo my son shot on his own when he was working in Zambia -- and his rifle of choice? A 9.3x74R Dakota number 10 single shot.

I would respectfully have to say those PH's, either real or fictional, are full of sh*t.

Will, don't you know that you should NEVER question a professional's advice in ANY field of endeavor?!

Shame!

quote:

Exactly. The 9.3 will work, but there is no such thing as too much gun (assuming you handle the rifle well).

There's the rub.

So, then if one is recoil shy, or physically unable to handle heavy recoil practice due to physical injury, you should just not be allowed to hunt DR?

Am I to understand that half-ass shooting with a rifle you are scared whitless of is more desirable than accurate shot placement with a rifle you've used for "everything" for years with great success?

Correct me here but isn't a PH with a 40+ rifle generally standing right next to you in these situations? Doesn't the PH have at least a bit of experience with things going south?

Finally, whose opinion do you trust a PH or someone whose life experience, though considerable, amounts to only, at best, a few seasons compared to perhaps 20 or more for a PH?

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMontana:

quote:

Exactly. The 9.3 will work, but there is no such thing as too much gun (assuming you handle the rifle well).

There's the rub.

So, then if one is recoil shy, or physically unable to handle heavy recoil practice due to physical injury, you should just not be allowed to hunt DR?

Am I to understand that half-ass shooting with a rifle you are scared whitless of is more desirable than accurate shot placement with a rifle you've used for "everything" for years with great success?

Correct me here but isn't a PH with a 40+ rifle generally standing right next to you in these situations? Doesn't the PH have at least a bit of experience with things going south?

Finally, whose opinion do you trust a PH or someone whose life experience, though considerable, amounts to only, at best, a few seasons compared to perhaps 20 or more for a PH?

HunterMontanaI agree with everything you posted above, with the exception of the bit about depending on the PH to pull your nuts out of the fire! this is a thought process that has always bothered me. A person who books a safari to hunt dangerous game, needs to be of the mindset that he is hunting completely alone, and must see to his own protection, and that of anyone in the hunting party. Where is it written that the PH can't be the first one clobbered, leaving you to pull his butt out from under a lion or buffalo?

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MacD37 you are quite right, it is, however, our primary responcibility as the "client" or first shooter to not bugger things up with a poorly placed first shot.

As Saeed has said before, there are a good number who cannot competently manage their big recoiling magnums.
PHs are[whether they admit it or not] prepared to suffer such client short comings, the motive being business-money.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

A good shot with a 9.3 beats the crap out of a shitty shot with a 505

Bingo!

How many such threads have we on AR? The 9.3X62 has been around for 107 years and at last it has become main stream in the US. There must be a good reason for this! Look at the number of premiuum bullets available now - just in the last 5 or 6 years.

I have not been to Africa but not a day goes by that I do not dream of my first safari - to hunt buffalo & kudu. I will be taking this with a Leupold 2.5-8X scope





At 8.5 lbs with scope it is perfect for off hand shooting and also for rapid reloading and accurate snap shooting.

I'll keep dreaming!

My question is would YOU use one to hunt dangerous game?

Yes I would especially on buffalo.

But like hunting with the 45-70 there are better choices IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

I would respectfully have to say those PH's, either real or fictional, are full of sh*t.

I assure you that they are real. The father is a Zambian icon and the fact that the son is still alive and well means he also knows a few things. Whether you believe it or not.

the Boers did for about half a century or a bit more, without back up. I guess buffalo weren't as dangerous back in the first half of the twentieth century...

Yes, the Boer may have used the 9.3 often BUT every time I look through a "MAGNUM" magazine in Joburg airport there always seems to be an old picture of a bandaged or busted up Dutchman compliments of a Leopard or Buffalo.

quote:

I guess buffalo weren't as dangerous back in the first half of the twentieth century...

Do you remember the days you can shoot them as pest for a few hundred bucks ?

Accelerated evolution in 30 years ?

Yes the answer to your question is

I will and have used 9.3x62 for DG

And there are no issues with it

quote:

Originally posted by Will:


These loaded questions are always responded to by the posters with the inevitable most serious tale of how they killed an enraged dinosaur with a 223 Rem. It was dead at the shot but he had to follow up with a half dozen roads just to satisfy the PH!!

Sometimes it is based on conveniently vague tales,... other times it based on solid accurate accounts from the careers of famous professionals like Bell.
On average 1.5 shots per elephant for a total of 1400 [ by smaller bores 6.5mm and 7mm]
He found the 6.5x54ms sufficiently lethal ,. but the amunition unreliable, hence switch to 7mm.
He wrote about being able to drop elephant with a light caliber rifle if he shot it in the same place that he would have shot it with a heavy rifle.
Clearly he had the skill & competence to succeed at something than other less skilled-less competent types, who feel they need a much larger cartridge, to make up for their shortcomings.
and anyone who says that Bell only shot unriled elephants, is simply unaware of the facts.

quote:

quote:
Exactly. The 9.3 will work, but there is no such thing as too much gun (assuming you handle the rifle well).

These threads are silly if there is any objection to my quote.

As for PH's for backup, some of us hunt without PH's around, and if around, the client's job is not to put the PH at risk, and, I've taken buffalo with a 338WM and would do so again. It is certainly the equal of the 9.3x62, carrying slightly more energy. But I would prefer the biggest thing that I can get my hands on and recover reasonably quickly for a second shot. I do not want to use the 577 T-Rex, because I've seen the video and think that I would run a risk of not being ready for a second shot within a couple of seconds. Still there is wisdom in considering a 40+ calibre. Each hunter must weigh the advantages and disadvantages for themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
As a Pro hunter hunting a Buff I would prefer somoene hunting with a rifle they are confident with and not scared of.

A good shot with a 9.3 beats the crap out of a shitty shot with a 505

I don't disagree with these two statements. However what bothers me when I see these statements and the old standby's "A scoped 375 is your best bet" or "I winced when the client pulled out a Weatherby", is they imply that only PHs can handle the big bores well. This simply is not true. There are many of us who CAN shoot Weatherby's, full house 416 Rigbys, 500NE doubles, and larger rifles well.

Yes a good shot with the 9.3 beats the crap out of a shitty shot with a 505, but a good shot with a 505 beats the crap out of a shitty shot, or for that matter, a good shot with the 9.3! Or 375!

With that said, my next safari this October will be for Tuskless and Buffalo Bull. My rifles will be a 500NE Double and a 9.3X74R Double with scope in case we can't close the distance on the Buff for iron sights with the 500NE. So yes, I might end up using the 9.3 (the 74R instead of the 62 in this case) on some DG if the need arises, but it won't be my first choice.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

quote:
Exactly. The 9.3 will work, but there is no such thing as too much gun (assuming you handle the rifle well).

These threads are silly if there is any objection to my quote.

As for PH's for backup, some of us hunt without PH's around, and if around, the client's job is not to put the PH at risk, and, I've taken buffalo with a 338WM and would do so again. It is certainly the equal of the 9.3x62, carrying slightly more energy. But I would prefer the biggest thing that I can get my hands on and recover reasonably quickly for a second shot. I do not want to use the 577 T-Rex, because I've seen the video and think that I would run a risk of not being ready for a second shot within a couple of seconds. Still there is wisdom in considering a 40+ calibre. Each hunter must weigh the advantages and disadvantages for themselves.

I agree that the 338 Win Mag is suficient for cape buffalo, but I have to ask the question! Where did you take cape buffalo with a 338 Win Mag? The reason I ask that question is there are only two places in Africa, that I'm aware of, where the 338 Win Mag is leagle on cape buffalo. In most places where the 9.3 is leagle the 338 is not.
...............................................................................

Let's see, Cape Buff, Hippo, Eland, Sable, Leopard all taken with my 9.3 X 62, so guess I would use it for DG? Works for me.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Yes; I would. I carried one as a backup on my buff/tuskless hunt last year and would have used it on the buff without hesitation - on the ele with some hesitation.

I had an 8x60 with a lot of history. Mr. Boyce used it when he was a Parks employee and told me he took 100 buff and 60 elephant in a 2 week period with it, while on a control operation.

It worked for him!

How many wounded and lost? No trophy fee anyway.

It is the very minimum that I would use on buff or elephant. I would prefer something with a lot more bullet weight but then I am a very careful soul.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

quote:
Exactly. The 9.3 will work, but there is no such thing as too much gun (assuming you handle the rifle well).

These threads are silly if there is any objection to my quote.

As for PH's for backup, some of us hunt without PH's around, and if around, the client's job is not to put the PH at risk, and, I've taken buffalo with a 338WM and would do so again. It is certainly the equal of the 9.3x62, carrying slightly more energy. But I would prefer the biggest thing that I can get my hands on and recover reasonably quickly for a second shot. I do not want to use the 577 T-Rex, because I've seen the video and think that I would run a risk of not being ready for a second shot within a couple of seconds. Still there is wisdom in considering a 40+ calibre. Each hunter must weigh the advantages and disadvantages for themselves.

I agree that the 338 Win Mag is suficient for cape buffalo, but I have to ask the question! Where did you take cape buffalo with a 338 Win Mag? The reason I ask that question is there are only two places in Africa, that I'm aware of, where the 338 Win Mag is leagle on cape buffalo. In most places where the 9.3 is leagle the 338 is not.
...............................................................................

My grandfather did so in Zim, Zambia, bots, tanzania and Cameroon from 1974 to 2004. Some of that time was before anyone really cared about legal minimums. As long as you could shoot well, the PH would turn you loose with the 338.

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
My grandfather did so in Zim, Zambia, bots, tanzania and Cameroon from 1974 to 2004. Some of that time was before anyone really cared about legal minimums. As long as you could shoot well, the PH would turn you loose with the 338.

You are correct about those old days and I would say a full 80% of the buffalo taken in the early years was with an 8MM Mauser war surplus rifle by locals. In the late 70s, and early 80s both Zambia and Zimbabwe were recovering from the bush wars, and nobody cared about regulations any way.

Today is a different story and the 9.3 is minimum in many places and the 375 in almost all others for buffalo and larger in the big five. The cats are still legally hunted with smaller chamberings.
.........................................................................

While it is true that African history shows us that Elephant (and I assume Buff) can be taken with the 6.5 Mannlicher, 7mm Mauser, and purportedly even a 22 rimfire, those are obviously under ideal conditions. I pay good money for an African hunt, and if I'm on the Cape Buff or Elephant of a lifetime, I may not have the opportunity of a perfect, undisturbed, broadside shot through the ribcage. I want a rifle that can humanely take DG with quartering on or quartering away shots, and other shots where much bone and tissue must be penetrated with the shot the animal affords me. For me, those calibers start with a "4" or better.

I have a good client/friend who is a lady that shot a cape buffalo in Tanzania in the 1980's with a .308 Winchester. She went on safari with her mother and was not even really intending on shooting a buff. One shot right behind the shoulder through both lungs and top of the heart with some type of factory ammunition...ran 50 yards and died...end of story. She tell me all the time now: "I don't know what the big deal about cape buffalo is...they die just as easy as deer."

Lane these are the stories you hear always when someone is trying to justify hunting with an inadequate rifle. The fact that this lady took the cape buffalo with the little rifle and the shot happened to be accidently “PERFECT” and didn’t hit any large bones, so perpetrated both lungs, and the top of the heart, makes her next buffalo a very dangerous animal.

Because the buffalo chose to run away before dying leads her to believe that buffalo will always be that easy.

If that buffalo had chosen to take her on after the shot rather than run away, I think she would have a far different opinion on Cape buffalo, that is, “IF” she survived the impending fight.

The above is an example of gaining respect for an inadequate tool for a job because it worked under perfect conditions ONCE! The opinion formed by this, because of that limited experience, may get you killed at a later date on another seemingly same job under different conditions.

The buffalo can be a problem with any rifle, but a person is much better protected as long as he sticks with what is legal. The rounds that are legal are legal for a reason, they have been found to be adequate in most cases and the ones that are not legal are illegal for the opposite reason!

It has always amazed me at the folks who say they would turn in anyone they saw breaking a game law, and turn around and try to justify breaking a game law on legal cartridges for certain animal species simply because they think the law is wrong. My thing is if you believe a law is wrong, work to change it, don’t break it because you disagree with it!

I personally consider the 9.3X62 and the 9.3X74R to be adiquate for cape buffalo, but if it were illegal, I would not use it for that purpose!

All just the opinion of one old hunter!.............................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Lane these are the stories you hear always when someone is trying to justify hunting with an inadequate rifle. The fact that this lady took the cape buffalo with the little rifle and the shot happened to be accidently “PERFECT” and didn’t hit any large bones, so perpetrated both lungs, and the top of the heart, makes her next buffalo a very dangerous animal.

Because the buffalo chose to run away before dying leads her to believe that buffalo will always be that easy.

If that buffalo had chosen to take her on after the shot rather than run away, I think she would have a far different opinion on Cape buffalo, that is, “IF” she survived the impending fight.

The above is an example of gaining respect for an inadequate tool for a job because it worked under perfect conditions ONCE! The opinion formed by this, because of that limited experience, may get you killed at a later date on another seemingly same job under different conditions.

The buffalo can be a problem with any rifle, but a person is much better protected as long as he sticks with what is legal. The rounds that are legal are legal for a reason, they have been found to be adequate in most cases and the ones that are not legal are illegal for the opposite reason!

It has always amazed me at the folks who say they would turn in anyone they saw breaking a game law, and turn around and try to justify breaking a game law on legal cartridges for certain animal species simply because they think the law is wrong. My thing is if you believe a law is wrong, work to change it, don’t break it because you disagree with it!

All just the opinion of one old hunter!.............................................................

Mac,
I don't disagree with anything you said...just relaying a story.

Not sure what the law stated in 1980 in TZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun

+1

I've shot fourteen water buffalo with a 9.3x74R so I don't see the 9.3x62 wouldn't kill cape buffalo with proper bullet placement and good bullets.

Would use it on everything else too if needed.

Do prefer something bigger.

quote:

Not sure what the law stated in 1980 in TZ.

Since colonial times has always been a minimum .375 for DG

I shot a .375 through both shoulders of a bull elephant and brought down a Cape Buffalo with a bang-flop to the spinal shoulder junction.

Why would not the 9.3 do as well?

The 286 grain 9.3 bullet has the same sectional density as the 300 grain .375, so I don't see why it would not do the same. Granted, the bullet weighs less (by the amount of 1/3 of a .22 long rifle bullet), goes about 2450 fps instead of 2550 fps, and is narrower by 1/100 of an inch. I think this is so much nit-picking.

Somewhere I read about a PH who actually prefers the 9.3 because is is so quick to recover for repeat shots, due to the lesser muzzle jump.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
I shot a .375 through both shoulders of a bull elephant and brought down a Cape Buffalo with a bang-flop to the spinal shoulder junction.

Why would not the 9.3 do as well?

The 286 grain 9.3 bullet has the same sectional density as the 300 grain .375, so I don't see why it would not do the same. Granted, the bullet weighs less (by the amount of 1/3 of a .22 long rifle bullet), goes about 2450 fps instead of 2550 fps, and is narrower by 1/100 of an inch. I think this is so much nit-picking.

Somewhere I read about a PH who actually prefers the 9.3 because is is so quick to recover for repeat shots, due to the lesser muzzle jump.

Indy, I agree with you completely! However with either one of these two classics one needs to use very good bullets, and v ery carefully place the shots. I simply do not see any difference in the killing power of these two. Both are minimum legal chamberings for dangerous game in Africa,at least for buffalo and up. They are simply brothers from a another mother, so to speak!

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