I have a 9.3x62 mauser which I love. I bought it because of it's history, the fact that it's a mauser cartridge and because I was mainly going to use it for boar and moose in Europe where it is still pretty much the preferred calibre. Here in the UK it's about the largest calibre one can get without a lot of hassle and still use on deer.

One of these days I plan a trip of a lifetime to Africa. I would love to hunt Eland and a Buffalo. I've heard a lot of views about the suitability of my 9.3 some good, some bad. I'd like some real experience (preferably good)I plan on using 300gr swift a frames at approx 2200-2250fps.

Allthough it's not what it's designed for this rifle groups 1.75" at 200 yards with 270 gr speers not bad for a cartridge designed in 1904!

1894
What's the make of the gun? I have a 9.3x62 CZ550 I bought it because I wanted something different. Although not big game I have taken 5 Deer with it with 5 shots. Every time the big 9.3 barked a deer fell. I to dream of the big hunt and one day hope to go on one. The 9.3x62 was the only caliber that was grandfather in under the minim caliber clause for a lot of African countries when they set the smallest caliber standards to use. This should speak for its self when thinking about its usefulness.

Good hunting.

for buff we used 286 grain woodleigh solid and enough R15 to get 2250 fps. I cant remember the weight of the charge.

9.3x62 was designed by Baron Brenneke for Africa. The .375 H&H is very similar. People tend to prefer the 9.3x64 for Africa. It's my favourite round for driven wild boar. I am told it will do a great job in Africa, provided your P.H. has a good back-up rifle.

Don�t mix up the 9,3x62, designed by Otto Bock in 1905 with the 9,3x64 of Wilhelm Brennecke ten years later. The Brennecke is on par with the .375 H&H, the 9,3x62 the minimum on buffalo, but good for all other game. For buff you should go with a 286 gr FMJ at 2400 f/s.

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I have a 9.3x62 due back from a rebore job by Cliff LaBounty tomorrow. It started life as a custom .30-06 on a commercial FN Mauser action that I found in a pawn shop in Kansas. Island mounted three leaf rear and banded, hooded front sights, barrel band sling swivel, etc... It was chosen for my first trip to Africa (June 2002). I have my dies (already sitting in the press!), Norma brass, 250 gr Barnes X's donated by a friend and the waiting is KILLING me.

Forgive me but I thought Buffalo are herd animals and that solids were not used in the first instance to prevent wounding animals on the far side?

1984,
BC in SC was hunting bachelor bulls in Tanzania with his wife to be who shot the bull with a 9.3x62 that I built for her..She shot, the bull went about 40 yds. and died. the 286 gr. solid performed perfectly...

I use the 320 gr. soft by Woodleigh for herd hunting and 320 gr.solids for bachelor Bulls.
I can drive that bullet to 2350 FPS. in my 9.3x62. and it will shoot stem to stern through one...

There is no problem in using solids in herd hunting as long as you pay attention to what is on the other side of your target, but you must use a lot more discreation and patience.
the 9.3x62 soft is the perfect herd combo as it will invaribly stop against the hide on the off side..I have yet to see it fail to do just that..A 375 on the other hand will go through a bull broadside a lot of the time with softs.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray Atkinson,

Now this is the sort of stuff I want to hear! Actual good experiences.

Could you share your 320gr Woodleigh loads with me? I had thought of them but was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get enough velocity. Seems I was wrong! I would be very interested to hear of the AOL with them (using the crimp groove) as my mauser 98 doesn't have the front lug ground and so can be a bit of a squueze. Do you think theres much of an advantage in using the 320s over the 286s?

1894,

I shoot 56.5 grs. of RL-15 with the 320 gr. Woodleigh soft and 56. with the solid both to same POI in my 26" barrel Mauser...The OAL is 3.280 or to the top of the cannalure. I don't crimp, but my extractor button is ground .004 undersize so as to grip the case rather tightly..and with RL-15 the case is very full, so I have had no problems...I do this on most of my rifles, as I'm not a fan of fillers and crimping...

I don't know if there is any advantage to using the 320 over the 286.. The 286 needs no defense as it is a proven warrior. I suspect you get more penitration and maybe a little more thump, but is it substantial, I just don't know and don't place much substance on paper balistics anymore....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,

Many thanks, I'll give the loads a try if I can get hold of some bullets. I have had problems with neck tension with RWS brass (very thin necks), Lapua better. I'm told PMP has very strong necks. I take the resize button out to get max. tension. What brass and primers do you use?

1894,
Taking the resize button out may be causing you some problems with the RWS necks...I use Norma brass as that is all I can get on this side of the big pond..I would really like to find some RWS or Lapua brass for the 9.3x62..I use Federal 210 primers....I also shoot the 9.3x64 and am quit fond of that caliber, now that the super premium bullets are out there...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Hi
Gentlemen would you please tel me what is a normal twist rate for 9,3x62.Does the normal twist rate stabilise those long bullets like woodleigh 320 grain? Here in Sweden there are plenty of used guns in this caliber and often in excellent shape(mauser action and swedish steel in barrel hmmm) because due to the recoil and cost of ammo the hunters haven't used them much and price is very low(from 200to 500 $).
the hunters prefer to use the lovely 6,5 for moose hunting.I am thinking to buy one in case i go to africa or alaska for hunting.
best regaeds
Danny

Danny,
The 9.3's I've built had a 1x10 twist, I have shot that bullet in the Huskvarnas, the old Sauers and in M-70 pre 64 that had been modified from a 9mm...

The 320 gr. RN has shot in all of them...If a bullet will not stabilize you will know the first group you shoot...

You been hanging out with a bad crowd if they are bad mouthing the 9.3x62, they must rate mentally with a snail..(grin) I have never heard one single bad word about a 9.3x62 in my lifetime of hunting. The 9.3x64 on the other hand suffered a lot of abuse because of early bullet failures as the velocity was too high for the bullets as they used the 9.3x62 bullets in it and that was a disaster....But, today with premium bullets the 9.3x64 is a real number and actually a bit better than the 9.3x62, but with the price of added recoil....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Hi Ray
I am not bad mouthing 9,3x62 this caliber is excellent,but the ammo is much cheaper in 6,5x55 and the bullet variety is in favor of 6,5x55 too and when it comes to recoil and blast 6,5 is shining.simply the 9,3 is made for larger games and 6,5 is an excellent all round caliber that can down moose very well.As I mentioned if I find my way to Alaska or Africa 9,3 would be my chice.
best regards
danny

Danny,
I never said you were!! I was referring to what you said you had heard "both good and bad", said it with tongue in cheek!!

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I'm used the 9,3x62 (Mannlincher Schoena�er .24" barrel)in Argentina with red deer (400 / 500 lbs) and jabal� (european hog ) and was desvastator.
My best handload was: RWS cases berdan primers RWS 5608, Rel. 7 # 50 grs, RWS H-Mantel 258 grs. O.A.L. 2.420" Vel. 2432 fts (3388 fts/lbs). The second load was RWS berdan cases, Fed. 210 primers, Herc. Rel.7 # 51 grs, Speer 270 grs. S-Spz, O.A.L. 2.420", 2405 fts.

A friend and I recently shot a 9.3, 270 grain Speer semispitzer into a line of water-filled milk jugs. The charge was 58 or 59 grains of RL15 in Norma brass. The bullet was recovered in jug #6, and retained 81% of its original weight with a magazine-picture mushroom.

While I would choose a heavy super-premium for African game, for American deer/boar/black bear, the 270 Speer looks promising.

BigIron

Ed,

Can you recall how long it took you to get your barrel re-bored by Cliff LaBounty?

Ive been waiting 21 months for mine.

Andy

I sent him the gun in October of 2000 with a due date of "before Christmas", 2000. He first said that he was taking no orders due to backlog but then asked about caliber as he was going to do his run of .35's. Since the 9.3 required the same boring he agreed to take it. I received it last Friday. With the passing of Dick Nichols, Cliff has been helping the Nichols family out on orders they had. I haven't shot it yet, but expect the same great performance as I get with my .338-06 he did 5 years ago.

BigIron,

I too was very impressed when I shot the 270gr speers. They are the only bullet which is easy to get hold of over here for 9.3

I recovered some from the chalk walls of the quarry I shoot in. From 100 yards they showed absolutely textbook expansion and remained perfectly 'bonded'. Weight retention was 75% They were launched at 2350fps. . The 286gr partitions were wiped out back to the partition and not much above calibre size. Seems like the hot core process really works I wonder if they are as good as true bonded bullet without the other features such as Bitteroot or Woodleigh?

I hate to rain on your parades guys but in a hunting situation, the 270 gr. Speer will come apart most of the time and the Nosler never will....This is based on several culling operations....Again, that goes to show that magazines, dirt banks etc. are not the perfect criteria for expansion.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

BigIron,

I live near both the Speer and nosler factories and have shot them forever it seems, and believe me the speer hot core process does not bond the lead to the jacket in any way what so ever.

The Bitterroot would be a good bullet even without bonding due to its completely perfect 0.65 inch thick V-shaped jacket, pure copper jacket and heat treating. with bonding it is still the original and best expanding bullet ever made.

Bill Steigers (who makes Bitterroots) worked for Vernon Speer for many years. He wrote the first five speer reloading manuals as I recall. The late Mr. Speer would never have claimed his bullet was bonded.

The 270 gr 9.3 x 62 is surviving only because it has relativeluy high SD and very modest velocity.

If you want to see the difference between a hot core and a bonded bullet try shooting them at 3,000 fps. You will see it is not bonded!!!!

The 9.3 nosler is a great bullet. Cut one in two and look at how thick the ogive is.

the dirt banks create alot of heat. Its a very dense medium and unlike anything in the animal world.

you guys are making me want to go out and buy a 9.3 x 62 CZ just to have a light weight medium bore.

Ray, how fast can you push a 286 gr in a 22 inch barrel?

Andy

I'm sorry, my second handload was RWS BOXER cases, Fed. 210 primers, Herc. Rel.7 # 51 grs, Speer 270 grs. S-Spz, O.A.L. 2.420", 2405 fts.

Andy,
All my rifles in 9.3 are 26" and I can get 2502 with the 286 Nosler and that is a max load...based on that I'd guess 2400 FPS in a 22" barrel would be pretty close and there ain't no flies on that...

I can get 2400 with a 320 Woodleigh...Rl 15 seems to work best in the 9.3x62..Recoil is about like a 30-06 to me...The 9.3x64 is even better I suppose, and the case isn't all that much bigger, it works fine in a standard lenth action..With the advent of premium bullets the 9.3x64 may be the best yet...albiet recoil is more. It would be simple to punch out a 9.3x62 to a 9.3x64 I think..( If the 64 will clean the chamber ) I havn't checked the stats on that one.....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

That's whats so good about this forum, real experience to temper the flights of theory. Point taken about the speers - however given modest velocity and reasonable SD are they ok up to a certain size of quarry. No doubt the answer will be why bother when there are such good premium bullets about and you might meet an elephant - I'm thinking of Europe where I'm unlikely to meet a buffalo in pursuit of boar and moose.

1894,
I it were me, I regulate the 270 gr. Speer to animals in the 100 to 200 lb. range, as they are mighty soft and just to short for 9.3 caliber, and that means not much SD, my favorite criteria.I've blown them up on Impala and Blesbok..

The European bullets in 9.3 all seem to be very good bullets re: RWS, Tug, Tig, Norma etc., although I have not tried them I know some well experienced PH's who swear by them.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I've been playing around with the Barnes X 250 grainer at about 2500 fps in the 9.3 X62 Mauser (in a Sauer 200)- very good accurate killer of deer & goats - but I want to know whether a 293 grain RWS TUG (factory load)would be a better on BIG deer like Sambar.

Bucky,
I don't like Barnes X on anything but larger animals and I think the 250 BX will handle any animal up to and including Eland, In fact I suspect it might work fine on Buffalo as its as long as most 300 Gr. conventional bullets..I'm just surmising however, but would bet dollars to donuts I'm not far off....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I am in the course of load development with the 9.3x62. I have gotten the 286 Partition up to the 2350 fps out of a 23" barrel. I have gotten 2400fps with the Barnes solid. I am also working with the 250 Nosler Ballistic Tip. Nosler advised me that this has a very heavy jacketed bullet designed with elk in mind. I have gotten 2600 fps with this bullet.

I will admit that these loads are very hot if one accepts the factory loading criteria for the cartridge (either 44,000 or 49,000 psi.) However, this is extremely conservative given that this is essentially a 30-06 case with the shoulder moved and a larger hole. The standard for the 30-06 is in the mid-50,000 range.

I am able to reload my brass the same number of times I can reload 30-06 brass, and have no problems with bolt lift, extraction, or other pressure signs. But these loads exceed the published data by a grain or two. I will not provide loads, but believe that H4895, SR118, Varget and RL 15 to be the good choices for this round. I wish I could lay my hands on some H414 so I could try out Ray's 250 loads.

I can't wait to get this thing on a hunt. I am thinking about a deer hunt with it this fall, and taking it to Africa next year. The 250BT at 2600fps essentially duplicates the ballistics of the 140gr Remington bullet in my 6.5 Swede at 2750fps. Ku-dude

Ku-Dude
You should be able to get H414 at any reloading supply house or Spt. Gds. store, that handles Hodgdon Powder.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I for sure can recommend the CZ 550 / 9.3x62 combo. This weekend i saw the Winchester load with the 286 grs Nosler Partition. Very pointed bullet, I�m sure one could seat it longer and use the factory crimp die. I hope to get loading data on VV N 540 and 550 soon.

BTW the PMP load has one of the most blunted bullets I have ever seen. This of course is represented in the ballistics. But I can�t find this load on their web site?

I know Woodleigh and Barnes bullets. Does anybody else makes heavies / premium bullets? Has anybody shot something with GS blunt nosed solids?

Good shooting! H

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Ray,
excuse my question, but I don't understand if the opinion of the ph on EU Bullets is positive or negative.
I know that Col.Alphin gave a negative sentence on TUG bullets, describing a buffalo wounding, with a near to completely destruction of the bullet, but this does not surprise me, all we know directly or less the features of this animal. But except this fact and the fact that is expensive, in Europe is appreciated (I love it). This the origin of my curiosity.
thank you, bye

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bye
Stefano
Waidmann's Heil

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
[B]Andy,
...I can get 2400 with a 320 Woodleigh in the 9,3x62 ...

dear atkinson,
you can ask ALL of the long-time-manufacturers of 9,3x62 cartridges and they will tell you all the same:
it is not possible to reach 2400 fps with a 320 grainer in 9,3x62 without beeing about 20 to 25 % above the allowable pressure ceiling for this cartridge. there are 3 opinions why you have a 9,3x62 that goes 2400 fps with a 320er bullet:

1. you are working with 4300 bar pressure
2. you are working with a paper-chronometer
3. you are telling fairy-tales
4. you simply do not speak the truth

please click the correct number!
to verify my vote against your brutal 9,3x62 velocity read this:

A-Square RM: 2380 fps / 286 grs DT
RWS-RM: 2330 fps / 293 grs TUG
Vihtavuori-RM: 2330 fps / 285 grs RWS
Norma-RM: 2362 fps / 286 Alaska
Barnes-RM: 2512 fps / 286 Barnes-X (this load exceeded the allowable pressure in my in my own rifle by far and did only 2430 fps)
DEVA-RM: 2330 fps / 285 grs RWS

I do also know from experience, how much velocity does fall of from 285 to 320 grs in the stronger, bigger and higher pressured 9,3x64 brenneke, so I can tell you and all the hunters that do mean the 9,3x62 is an equivalent to .375 H&H:
you can reach 2100 to max. 2200fps with 320-grs in a 9,3x62 without running into the pressure-ceiling! maybe you can reach 2400 fps with a 320-grainer but maybe you are reaching the nirvana at the same time!
so you do no good to hunting-pals when you are telling such worst things!

the hunter escard

/

Ecard,Esacard or whatever your name is,if in fact that is your name, you are rude and new to this board (maybe)and really dont know sh--t from Shinola...or maybe your just stupid by birth and European powders....

I get 2520 FPS with 58grs of RL-15 with a 286 gr. bullet....2450 FPS with a 300 gr. swift and just a tad under 2400 with the 320 Woodleigh according to my chronograph......based on 5 or 10 shot averages out of my 26" barrel and long throated rifle....Now I submit considering my barrel lenth thats not to far off USA Reloading book Load data, taking the throat and barrel lenth into consideration....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I too have seen the 9.3x62 used in Africa with devastating results. I witnessed 6 one-shot kills on the following animals: 3 eland, 1 debra, 1 buff, 1 blue wildebeest...The nosler bullet is top-notch. It's a great choice.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
The Safari Specialists
www.slatesafaris.com

Escard,

Weidmannsheil!

Bitte, konnen Sie sagen was das Sicherheitsnormendruck fur das 9.3x62 ist? Als Ich oben hab' gesagt, mein nachladende Patronen fur das 9.3x62 sind wirklich heiss, etwas 55,000psi. (Es tut mir leid, aber Ich kann das nicht ins metric ubersetzen.) Ich glaube mir das Sicherheitsnormendruck fur das 9.3x62 ist 44,000 or 49,000psi. Also, mein Patronen sind 10 prozent oben die hohere Grenze, aber innerhalb das Sicherheitsnormendruck des 30-06.

Sie mussen wissen das wir sind auf die Grenze mitt unsere Nachladenshaft. Aber, mitt neuen Hullen in ein starke Waffen ist das Sicher?

Hoffenliche, Ich hab' nicht Ihre Sprache zu schlecht gebrochen, aber Ihre English ist sehr gut, Ich hab' gedacht das Ich muss auf Deutsche fur die weltweit Nachladen-und-Jagdverband weiderscriben. Ich mochte das mehr von Oesterreich und Deutscheland Post hinterlassen werden. Sie haben viel zum uns zu geben. Danke. Wiederschauen. Ku-dude

/

Escard,

sei nicht so schroff! Du bist nicht unter Deutschen in der Kneipe, wo man frei aus dem Herzen auf eine so rohe Weise sprechen darf. Du h�ttest es doch h�flicher und netter fragen k�nnen - dann w�rest Du als J�gerfreund in diesem Forum sehr willkommen. Willst du weitermachen, w�re ene Bitte um Entschuldigung sehr n�tzlich - oder wenigstens einen anderen Nick-Namen.

�brigens finde ich, dass Herr Atkinson ein sehr erfahrener J�ger und Waffenkenner ist. D.h. auch wenn ich selbst einiges fragw�rdig finde, glaube ich doch, dass er gute Gr�nde und Erfahrungen f�r seine Worte hat. Und das ist bei allen Leuten nicht immer der Fall...

Waidmannsgr�sse,

Fritz K.