quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Mind giving a bit more info?

Which PH of the year?

Can you give a source for that a trophy cat "fell over" meaning I assume one of these frozen animals killed elsewhere, and some source for said problem lion still causing problems?

I know you are on the ground out there, but after the shit show that was Cecil, mayhaps we should actually have facts before we throw someone under the bus?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am sure he is referring to the most recent PH of the year, Peter Thormahlen.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
He might well be!

And Thormahlem is continuing the usual SCI PROFFESSIONAL HUNTER OF THE YEAR path!

Any professional worth his salts would throw that prize right back at them!

Honestly, how the hell can they have so many of the hand picked crooks??

How does SCI choose these idiots??

One would expect those picked by them to be all above board, and an example to their profession.

But it ain’t so!

No one can do it like SCI can!

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.


I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.


I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

Andrew, I hope you tell them to stick it if they offer you this utterly stupid, pointless award!

We know what sort of a professional hunter you are, and all your repeat clients do too.

Being associated with such a rediculous award is only going to distract from your many accomplishments.

Frankly, this so called award had become nothing but demeaning to whoever it is given!

It ranks down at the bottom with other awards SCI give to so called hunters who buy their trophies and enter them.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would address any of the specific questions that many of us have been asking for well over 20 years such as - How much money does SCI actually invest in Africa to protect our hunting rights and of course, how do they vet their Professional Hunter of the Year selectees.

In almost 10 years of working in Africa, I have never once stumbled upon a SCI representative and I have attended close to 100 meetings regarding hunting rights and conservation initiatives in Africa. I work with 9 different NGOs who invest anywhere from $800K to millions each year to protect hunting habitats and rights in Africa, but have never encountered a single penny from SCI.

Would love to hear the facts from SCI and would love to see SCI actually honor the true "Professionals" in Africa who ARE making a positive difference here and stop pandering to the charlatans. I remain cautiously optimistic but not overly hopeful for answers...

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would address any of the specific questions that many of us have been asking for well over 20 years such as - How much money does SCI actually invest in Africa to protect our hunting rights and of course, how do they vet their Professional Hunter of the Year selectees.

In almost 10 years of working in Africa, I have never once stumbled upon a SCI representative and I have attended close to 100 meetings regarding hunting rights and conservation initiatives in Africa. I work with 9 different NGOs who invest anywhere from $800K to millions each year to protect hunting habitats and rights in Africa, but have never encountered a single penny from SCI.

Would love to hear the facts from SCI and would love to see SCI actually honor the true "Professionals" in Africa who ARE making a positive difference here and stop pandering to the charlatans. I remain cautiously optimistic but not overly hopeful for answers...

While I believe the PH of the year awards have serious issues, I will defend SCI on the "investment in Africa." Organizations like SCI best serve the hunting public with their activities monitoring various governments and their legislation/regulations that effect hunting. In addition, they need to be involved in lobbying efforts related to those actions. These government action can kill our sport with one vote and a signature. Idealistically, an investment in Africa sounds wonderful. Realistically, the governments can wipe out our sport if we are not careful. I would rather the money go with legislative matters all day long.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I imagine SCI making a lot of difference once they give up on many of their very questionable practices.

And concentrate on meaningful subjects that face us.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

There sure seems to be trouble wherever he goes. It is not hard to find out about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:



Will be interesting to watch how all this unfolds and the fallout that occurs. Will keep AR posted...

quote:

My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

quote:

But once again, money( donations) talk and bullshit walks..

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.


I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I imagine SCI making a lot of difference once they give up on many of their very questionable practices.

And concentrate on meaningful subjects that face us.

I agree.

I went turkey hunting last weekend with a couple of guys who are/were involved. They would agree with a lot of what some of us think. They did shed some light on a few things. For example,while they dislike the awards, the awards are the #1 net income generator at SCI. They aren’t likely to go away soon.

There are some good guys involved now. Change in any big organization takes time. Changes are being made.

I think we all have to appreciate the time it takes for someone like Paul Babaz to do the work he is doing. To top that off, he largely pays his own expenses. I have to respect what he is doing .

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Saeed

That is not what Larry said. The self worship buy your own awards such as the African 29 or whatever that many of us 'love" so much; are the single biggest revenue generator for SCI. Bigger than the convention.

Let that sink in.

Jeff