SCI’s PH of The Year Involved In Another Questionable Shoot

22 March 2018, 10:00

Opus1

So it seems SCI’s “Professional” Hunter of The Year may be involved in yet another questionable problem animal shoot. A problem animal permit was issued for a lion in the Kunene Region, yet a trophy cat falls over. Funny thing is, the lion causing all the muck is still running around causing muck. How strange.

So questions are, how does SCI go about selecting and vetting their “Professional” Hunter of The Year and secondly will SCI bother to do a little back ground check on their “Professional” Hunter of The Year before a Cecil’esk social medial tidal wave sweeps over the organization because they didn’t bother to vet their “Professional” Hunter of The Year?

Maybe Mr. Parsons can shed some light on their vetting process.

22 March 2018, 10:22

crbutler

Mind giving a bit more info?

Which PH of the year?

Can you give a source for that a trophy cat "fell over" meaning I assume one of these frozen animals killed elsewhere, and some source for said problem lion still causing problems?

I know you are on the ground out there, but after the shit show that was Cecil, mayhaps we should actually have facts before we throw someone under the bus?

22 March 2018, 13:11

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Mind giving a bit more info?

Which PH of the year?

Can you give a source for that a trophy cat "fell over" meaning I assume one of these frozen animals killed elsewhere, and some source for said problem lion still causing problems?

I know you are on the ground out there, but after the shit show that was Cecil, mayhaps we should actually have facts before we throw someone under the bus?

A more appropriate question would have been which SCI professional hunter of the year did it?

There has been a number of those elite professional hand picked by SCI who turned out to be nothing but bloody crooks!

I said it before, and I will repeat it here again.

Anyone winning anything from SCI should be avoided at any cost!

22 March 2018, 14:27

larryshores

I am sure he is referring to the most recent PH of the year, Peter Thormahlen.

22 March 2018, 14:59

Saeed

He might well be!

And Thormahlem is continuing the usual SCI PROFFESSIONAL HUNTER OF THE YEAR path!

Any professional worth his salts would throw that prize right back at them!

Honestly, how the hell can they have so many of the hand picked crooks??

How does SCI choose these idiots??

One would expect those picked by them to be all above board, and an example to their profession.

But it ain’t so!

No one can do it like SCI can!

22 March 2018, 20:02

Opus1

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I am sure he is referring to the most recent PH of the year, Peter Thormahlen.

22 March 2018, 20:10

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
He might well be!

And Thormahlem is continuing the usual SCI PROFFESSIONAL HUNTER OF THE YEAR path!

Any professional worth his salts would throw that prize right back at them!

Honestly, how the hell can they have so many of the hand picked crooks??

How does SCI choose these idiots??

One would expect those picked by them to be all above board, and an example to their profession.

But it ain’t so!

No one can do it like SCI can!

I must admit Saeed SCI does know how to pick them.

22 March 2018, 20:19

rxgremlin

I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.

I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

22 March 2018, 20:39

MJines

. . . was it legal . . . end of inquiry.

22 March 2018, 20:49

Opus1

quote:
Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.

I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

Other issues with SCI's PH of the Year have been magically swept away for the most part - amazing what money in a few well placed pockets can do. This one however appears is going to stick as the social media frenzy is organizing. SCI is going to be in a tough position if that happens.

22 March 2018, 21:03

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.

I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

Sounds like he well qualified, as far as SCI is concerned!

22 March 2018, 21:03

LHeym500

My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

22 March 2018, 21:11

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

22 March 2018, 21:18

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

. . . yeah, yeah, sure . . . but have you done something really important like make a number of large dollar hunt donations?

22 March 2018, 21:30

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

Andrew, I hope you tell them to stick it if they offer you this utterly stupid, pointless award!

We know what sort of a professional hunter you are, and all your repeat clients do too.

Being associated with such a rediculous award is only going to distract from your many accomplishments.

Frankly, this so called award had become nothing but demeaning to whoever it is given!

It ranks down at the bottom with other awards SCI give to so called hunters who buy their trophies and enter them.

22 March 2018, 21:55

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

I know they are not, but it sure feels that way. SCI creates the vehicle or story and the organized opposition runs it through.

Fairgame you thru hunting have done as much as anyone to bring back habitat and species through hunting. Have you ever been up for this award? You are a well known outfitter protecting a important piece of wild Africa

No but I have sought awards for the foot soldiers who have helped me and who put their lives on the line.

There are lots of us who have reclaimed wild Africa and many more who have done good.

Andrew, I hope you tell them to stick it if they offer you this utterly stupid, pointless award!

We know what sort of a professional hunter you are, and all your repeat clients do too.

Being associated with such a rediculous award is only going to distract from your many accomplishments.

Frankly, this so called award had become nothing but demeaning to whoever it is given!

It ranks down at the bottom with other awards SCI give to so called hunters who buy their trophies and enter them.

Never been to the States and when I do I would rather visit friends as I am not one for fanfare or competition. However SCI is not all bad and it would do well to adjust some of their policies and structures. For starters they would do well to court Africa's landlords and these are the people who need to be encouraged and rewarded.

22 March 2018, 22:01

rxgremlin

Thank you Andrew. I think it is important for us remember that we not throw the baby out with the bath water. While I am critical of some of the things that SCI does; I recognize that they do some good things. I would like them to rethink how they do business and remind them how their policies and practices affect ALL of us as hunters.

22 March 2018, 22:04

Saeed

It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would listen to some of these suggestions.

We live in hope.

22 March 2018, 23:53

Opus1

It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would address any of the specific questions that many of us have been asking for well over 20 years such as - How much money does SCI actually invest in Africa to protect our hunting rights and of course, how do they vet their Professional Hunter of the Year selectees.

In almost 10 years of working in Africa, I have never once stumbled upon a SCI representative and I have attended close to 100 meetings regarding hunting rights and conservation initiatives in Africa. I work with 9 different NGOs who invest anywhere from $800K to millions each year to protect hunting habitats and rights in Africa, but have never encountered a single penny from SCI.

Would love to hear the facts from SCI and would love to see SCI actually honor the true "Professionals" in Africa who ARE making a positive difference here and stop pandering to the charlatans. I remain cautiously optimistic but not overly hopeful for answers...

23 March 2018, 00:49

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would address any of the specific questions that many of us have been asking for well over 20 years such as - How much money does SCI actually invest in Africa to protect our hunting rights and of course, how do they vet their Professional Hunter of the Year selectees.

In almost 10 years of working in Africa, I have never once stumbled upon a SCI representative and I have attended close to 100 meetings regarding hunting rights and conservation initiatives in Africa. I work with 9 different NGOs who invest anywhere from $800K to millions each year to protect hunting habitats and rights in Africa, but have never encountered a single penny from SCI.

Would love to hear the facts from SCI and would love to see SCI actually honor the true "Professionals" in Africa who ARE making a positive difference here and stop pandering to the charlatans. I remain cautiously optimistic but not overly hopeful for answers...

While I believe the PH of the year awards have serious issues, I will defend SCI on the "investment in Africa." Organizations like SCI best serve the hunting public with their activities monitoring various governments and their legislation/regulations that effect hunting. In addition, they need to be involved in lobbying efforts related to those actions. These government action can kill our sport with one vote and a signature. Idealistically, an investment in Africa sounds wonderful. Realistically, the governments can wipe out our sport if we are not careful. I would rather the money go with legislative matters all day long.

23 March 2018, 01:46

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
It would be a wonderful surprise for many of us if the current leadership at SCI would address any of the specific questions that many of us have been asking for well over 20 years such as - How much money does SCI actually invest in Africa to protect our hunting rights and of course, how do they vet their Professional Hunter of the Year selectees.

In almost 10 years of working in Africa, I have never once stumbled upon a SCI representative and I have attended close to 100 meetings regarding hunting rights and conservation initiatives in Africa. I work with 9 different NGOs who invest anywhere from $800K to millions each year to protect hunting habitats and rights in Africa, but have never encountered a single penny from SCI.

Would love to hear the facts from SCI and would love to see SCI actually honor the true "Professionals" in Africa who ARE making a positive difference here and stop pandering to the charlatans. I remain cautiously optimistic but not overly hopeful for answers...

While I believe the PH of the year awards have serious issues, I will defend SCI on the "investment in Africa." Organizations like SCI best serve the hunting public with their activities monitoring various governments and their legislation/regulations that effect hunting. In addition, they need to be involved in lobbying efforts related to those actions. These government action can kill our sport with one vote and a signature. Idealistically, an investment in Africa sounds wonderful. Realistically, the governments can wipe out our sport if we are not careful. I would rather the money go with legislative matters all day long.

Sort of agree Larry I just think that SCI should be more proactive outside of the USA. The loss of hunting in a continent such as Africa would have severe ramifications all round.

23 March 2018, 02:30

Saeed

I imagine SCI making a lot of difference once they give up on many of their very questionable practices.

And concentrate on meaningful subjects that face us.

23 March 2018, 02:46

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I imagine SCI making a lot of difference once they give up on many of their very questionable practices.

And concentrate on meaningful subjects that face us.

I agree.

I went turkey hunting last weekend with a couple of guys who are/were involved. They would agree with a lot of what some of us think. They did shed some light on a few things. For example,while they dislike the awards, the awards are the #1 net income generator at SCI. They aren’t likely to go away soon.

There are some good guys involved now. Change in any big organization takes time. Changes are being made.

I think we all have to appreciate the time it takes for someone like Paul Babaz to do the work he is doing. To top that off, he largely pays his own expenses. I have to respect what he is doing .

23 March 2018, 02:58

Bwana1

Anyone care to tell the story of shooting a black rhino cow?

23 March 2018, 03:13

rxgremlin

Cow Rhino

Courtesy of Larry Shores

23 March 2018, 03:21

larryshores

There sure seems to be trouble wherever he goes. It is not hard to find out about it.

23 March 2018, 03:46

Opus1

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:

There sure seems to be trouble wherever he goes. It is not hard to find out about it.

And that's the rub. Any conservation and/or hunting rights organization that champions that type of behavior is on a suicidal plunge and has abandoned their mission.

Will be interesting to watch how all this unfolds and the fallout that occurs. Will keep AR posted...

23 March 2018, 04:30

dinsdale

quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:

Will be interesting to watch how all this unfolds and the fallout that occurs. Will keep AR posted...

Who was the Namibian DG cover PH on the hunt to make it legal?

23 March 2018, 04:36

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
My goodness, at this point I think SCI is involved in a conspiracy with the organized opposition to end the hunting-conservation model.

Ever hear of the concept of "Getting What You Can, While You Can"???

23 March 2018, 04:56

MJines

Crazy, curious, is what happened in this situation okie dokie with you? We supposed to stand united and have this fellow's back?

23 March 2018, 04:58

Dutch44

Well...I'm still holding my breath wanting to know the following:

1. Was it a legal hunt?
2. Was there proof that the problem cat was not the one taken?
3. Any hunt report?
4. Any pics?

I think the thread was derailed...to a point.

23 March 2018, 05:33

jdollar

As far as I am concerned SCI’s PHs Of the year has been involved in so much shady/ outright illegal shit that nothing surprises me. It’s not just a few apples, it’s the whole damn SCI barrel. Folks just keep making apologies for them and claiming they do some good. What is that- giving the antis more ammunition? Do the names David van der Meulin(sp) or Dawie Grouenvald(sp) ring a bell?? SCI has been cut enough slack to wrap around their pecker and trip over it..it’s time to hold them accountable for stupidity. 5 minutes of internet research will bring up enough red flags to torpedo Thormalen’s nomination. But once again, money( donations) talk and bullshit walks....
I now yield the floor to the usual SCI cheerleaders.

23 March 2018, 08:00

fulvio

quote:
But once again, money( donations) talk and bullshit walks..

Now isn't that a fact and fact it is that a good number SCI bigwigs have in past years cashed in (one way or another) on such arrangements.

23 March 2018, 14:46

ijl

How can SCI even consider someone who is not a member of, and recommended by, their own country's professional association?

quote:
Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I specifically brought up the issue of Thormahlen when I wrote my letter to Paul Babaz. I listed a number of concerns that I had and the "International PH of the Year" award was one of them.

This is what I wrote:

Recipients of the International Professional Hunter of the Year award need to be vetted more carefully. Peter Thormählen, the winner of the 2018 award, has been involved in questionable activity since at least 2006 when charges we brought against him for conducting a “pseudo hunt” for rhino in South Africa. In 2008 he faced another similar charge in South Africa and in 2011 was involved in a questionable shooting of a pregnant black rhino cow in Namibia. As a result he resigned from the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. With so many outstanding professional hunters from around the world this is the person SCI picked as the winner? Doing a small amount of investigation would have brought these issues to light and potentially avoid a major embarrassment for SCI.

I really hope my words aren't prophetic.

25 March 2018, 04:43

Tim Ferrall

I seem to recall that the PH in question here has been featured a couple of times in the SCI television show, "Expedition Safari", with Mike Rogers as the host and hunter.

25 March 2018, 05:42

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I imagine SCI making a lot of difference once they give up on many of their very questionable practices.

And concentrate on meaningful subjects that face us.

I agree.

I went turkey hunting last weekend with a couple of guys who are/were involved. They would agree with a lot of what some of us think. They did shed some light on a few things. For example,while they dislike the awards, the awards are the #1 net income generator at SCI. They aren’t likely to go away soon.

There are some good guys involved now. Change in any big organization takes time. Changes are being made.

I think we all have to appreciate the time it takes for someone like Paul Babaz to do the work he is doing. To top that off, he largely pays his own expenses. I have to respect what he is doing .

I somehow doubt that the PH of the year award generate so much income.

It might be from the other pointless awards SCI bestows on non hunters pretending to be be hunters helped by crooked South African criminals who have connections to all the animal auction houses and buy selected animals before the auctions at rediculous prices - see my reference above about non hunters??.

Then these animals get transported in all sorts of illegal ways even the drug cartel might learn a trick or from.

Anyone who is willing to pay five figures for dik dik just because it has a quarter of an inch advantage over others is willing to pay extraordinary amounts to see he is being glorified!

26 March 2018, 17:07

Bwana Bunduki

Saeed

That is not what Larry said. The self worship buy your own awards such as the African 29 or whatever that many of us 'love" so much; are the single biggest revenue generator for SCI. Bigger than the convention.

Let that sink in.

Jeff

26 March 2018, 17:29

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Saeed

That is not what Larry said. The self worship buy your own awards such as the African 29 or whatever that many of us 'love" so much; are the single biggest revenue generator for SCI. Bigger than the convention.

Let that sink in.

Jeff

Jeff,

With all due respect, SCI has stated before that the convention where they get most of their money - I seem to recall several millions.

I somehow doubt that little Tom, Dick and Harry who register their trophies pay that much every year.

SCI has never seen fit to publish their takings, so we are just going to keep guessing.

Every time we asked, we were told it is all public record.

Somehow non of us seem to find it.