While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

When I was a kid...I got called the Easter Bunny all the time...until my knuckles got calloused...then it quit.

I agree...we should stay focused on the actual problems...not the name. From what I have learned he has got problems enough with that.

Thanks Easter #^$*^, can't bring my self to type it. You are right, 95% of the comments on this subject are based on a lot of BS and very few actual facts.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

When I was a kid...I got called the Easter Bunny all the time...until my knuckles got calloused...then it quit.

I agree...we should stay focused on the actual problems...not the name. From what I have learned he has got problems enough with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??


Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry,

I agree with you on this. If Colorado Buck participated in illegal hunts, he should be held accountable. It isn't 100% clear to me at this point that he is guilty of said offense. I do agree however, that his promotional material is questionable. As Mark stated, a person in Colorado's position as a TV hunting show host, and anyone for that matter who is promoting a hunting business, should take all steps necessary to ensure the activities being promoted are legal and not open to interpretation from their appearance.

I don't see the need to belittle him for his nick name however. IMO, sticking to sorting out the facts should be enough without resorting to personal ridicule.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Thanks Easter #^$*^, can't bring my self to type it. You are right, 95% of the comments on this subject are based on a lot of BS and very few actual facts.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

When I was a kid...I got called the Easter Bunny all the time...until my knuckles got calloused...then it quit.

I agree...we should stay focused on the actual problems...not the name. From what I have learned he has got problems enough with that.

Oh I think there are plenty of facts to show he done wrong...I was saying we should stay with that and not belittle the thread with making fun of his name.

The shear fact that he booked with Bouna in Zim is wrong enough. Bouna is single-handedly trying to annihilate the lion from parts of "the valley" with questionalble extra quota...along with other exploits.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Man, I'm so glad I'm not a tv personality. without actually knowing the answer to any of the questions about whether he shot a female, whether he knew all the details of his hunts legality etc., the guys actions are put into question, accusations made, he's invited to defend himself (if I got a nice email saying "I think you f*&Ed up come defend yourself to me a total stranger that you owe absolutely nothing to, I'd say go pound sand).

I've noticed that guys here sometimes let their passion make them assholes, tearing down another man's trophies, holding people to unreasonable (in some cases) standards.

How is somebody outside the country they're going to hunt in supposed to know all the shit involved in whether it is legal? really? Even on here I've seen guys FROM certain countries disagree about whether something that happened was legal! You do realize AR isn't searchable through google right, this wonderful information we have and people to ask questions to, millions, billions of people probably don't even know it exists!!!! I know plenty of hunters that are ignorant of the power of the internet, yet people here expect guys to know everything about who they're booking with? Nobody would ever get screwed over if we were all omniscient.

and the comments about him not caring who he books with. I don't know the guy, and looking at the website I have some opinions about the dreamcatcher ranches, but that doesn't tell me he's doing anything other than trying to make money. It doesn't tell me he's the type of person that would knowingly set himself up to do an illegal hunt. How many people are there really that are so morally bent that they would intentionally do something illegal, let alone tv personalities who are going to be subject to millions of eyes watching their every move

Would it have been better to contact him and say,"hey man, I've heard some bad things about the outfit you just hunted with, do you know anything about it? Would you be interested in joining a discussion we're having on the legalities of south africans hunting in zim and whether there is something as a community we could do to help stop it."

more flies with honey and all that.

Red

At least 50% of the time I feel like responding to a thread I type it all out, read it and just close the window. probably should have this time too.

Your federal govt will not care one bit that a hunter does not research the outfitter they choose and then participated in an illegal hunt....

Just saying...

Has anyone contacted him about his hunt??

Are the people associated with Bouna on the US no-go list??

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Has anyone contacted him about his hunt??

Are the people associated with Bouna on the US no-go list??

Matt - I have contacted him, and I think a couple of others have too.

He has totally ignored us?

I wouldn't be surprised if he totally ignored the contacts

levdm no offense taken, opinions are like noses, everybody has their own. and my opinion is I disagree with people being naive if they believe me when I said a majority of hunters do not have the knowledge of the people on this forum, and also that we can't reasonably be expected to know all the legalities of what's going on in another country. The amount of bullshit I hear from hunters I talk to outside this small group (and within) regarding hunting, firearms, laws, ballistics, anatomy etc. is just amazing. It's like I tell my wife with the master's degree and 10 years teaching when she complains about a 13 dollar an hour classroom assistant without an associate's degree not knowing how to handle the kids, you can't hold somebody else your standard when they don't have your knowledge/training etc.

Out of curiosity I did a google on bouna safaris, of the first page of results only one item came up that said anything about a crooked deal, when I read it it looked like it was another party involved in a hunt that was the problem and the one penalized and banned. I even read parts of the linked report (interestingly enough colorado buck was on this hunt, it was in 2010, same hunt?) but reading it I didn't get that the people were upset with Bouna, but at the other operators.

I'm just saying this to illustrate that it isn't an obvious thing that Bouna safaris is doing illegal hunting. Want him to join the discussion then somebody do as I suggested and politely try to educated him and find out what he did or didn't know versus starting out painting him a certain way and asking him to take the defensive.

You all can hold tv/movie/sports personalities to higher standards if you want. Personally I don't, and think it's wrong, I don't care what Tiger, Kobe, Charlie do, I care how they play golf, basketball, or make me laugh in a sitcom. their personal lives to me are theirs. I watch all sporting shows figuring any guy on there is hawking something, doing what they're doing for money, has an angle or whatever. I watch for footage, scenery etc.

And frankly, as a father, if my kids grow up and their idols are on a tv screen I'm gonna be real disappointed in myself.

I've been overweight more than half my life, and am a redhead, I've been called lots of things, it rolls off my back like a duck. I even joke that if it sounds like it starts with buh or reh, (b-randon, b-radly, r-ed) I'll answer. just don't as they say call me late for dinner!

Red

Ah Yes, here we are again, another thread on AR with "Hunter's" ready to rip each other to shreds, intead of focusing on the fact that blatantly illegal activities are going on in Zimbabwe, and there is a real probability of irreversible damage to the wildlife populations, such as lions.

We don't need to be making fun of the TV personality that did the hunt because of his name, his name amounts to nothing. The people that are paying for the show are the ones that need to be dealt with.

The safari company doing the illegal hunting needs to be dealt with.

Because the activities depicted in the show in question were carried out by an on air personality and the company he works for, needs to be held accountable for participating in illegal activities.

Colorado Buck and his employers have a responsibility to hunters as a whole and the people that watch their programs, to operate within the parameters of Legal Hunting Practices. If they can not do that, then they need to be removed from the airways and punished the same as any other poacher.

Red,
I bet you are a good fellow...my only point was that it takes a lot to organize the filming of one of those shows...people capable of those kind of resources are "in the know"...and...he knew.

When I was visiting with Colorado Buck last week, I did ask him the story about his name. He swears it was given to him at birth. I called bullshit and he swore up and down it was his given name.

Take it for what it's worth, but that was what he said about his name.

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
When I was visiting with Colorado Buck last week, I did ask him the story about his name. He swears it was given to him at birth. I called bullshit and he swore up and down it was his given name.

Take it for what it's worth, but that was what he said about his name.

Did you ask him if he was naive to Bouna's atrocities in Zim?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
When I was visiting with Colorado Buck last week, I did ask him the story about his name. He swears it was given to him at birth. I called bullshit and he swore up and down it was his given name.

Take it for what it's worth, but that was what he said about his name.

Did you ask him if he was naive to Bouna's atrocities in Zim?

Nope I'd never even heard of Bouna until I clicked on this link, and that was after the show was over. This leads me to believe there is a good chance he knew nothing as well. I doubt someone who makes a living at this is going to go anywhere near controversy.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??



Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Dollar = Buck; short for Buckskin which was used in trading.jc

Contacts have been made to Colorado Buck. No response! Why don't we go to sponsors and tell them we will spread the word of the ethics and their name's all over the program.


Mike

So, Justa Buck and Colorado Buck could be related huh?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
While were at it why don't we bash and belittle people named, Hunter, Remington, Winchester, Cody, plain "Buck", Bucky, Montana, and everyone else who has a name connected to the Outdoor World in some way?? I am sure you'all can come up with a lot more. How about Jdollar, now that's a funny one, to me at least. Is his first name Justa??



Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Dollar = Buck; short for Buckskin which was used in trading.jc

Wow the lynch mob is out early today. Nothing has been proven that CB has done anything wrong, or illegal and the fact he doesn't answer to those on this tinny weannie fourm, and I don't blame him, is really pushing the envelope don't you think? It's really hilarious how some here think this is the ultimate place for judgement of ones activities and actions. Trial by internet without any evidence to support, all hearsay and second hand info, any accusations is really sad.

Mike, action as you are proposing is most likely setting up a very good reason for CB to consider a lawsuit against somebody. Count me out as helping spread the "word??", until CB has been charged, tried and convicted of something. JMHO. I am sure those who know the law a little better might want to weigh in on this.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Contacts have been made to Colorado Buck. No response! Why don't we go to sponsors and tell them we will spread the word of the ethics and their name's all over the program.


Mike

You guys have absolutely nothing better to do. You should be ashamed. I think you were changing your Depends when the ZIM PH clearly rolls the cat over and the BALLS are clearly shown. Please get new glasses before you start typing/accusing.

Ski+3

And please...... Give me one single case of an unsuspecting hunter from the USA being convicted of a Lacey ACT violation. Total BS.

Ski+3

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
And please...... Give me one single case of an unsuspecting hunter from the USA being convicted of a Lacey ACT violation. Total BS.

Ski+3

Buck McNeeley.

Don't confuse anyone by referencing factual material.

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
And please...... Give me one single case of an unsuspecting hunter from the USA being convicted of a Lacey ACT violation. Total BS.

Ski+3

Try a google search you will find plenty...

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
And please...... Give me one single case of an unsuspecting hunter from the USA being convicted of a Lacey ACT violation. Total BS.

Ski+3

Buck McNeeley.

That didn't take long! Some folks forget, lawyers frequent this site too.

Buck was not an Unsuspecting hunter and the violation did not take place on foreign soil. If I recall correctly he shot a caribou in Alaska too soon after flying and was busted for same day airborne shooting. The Lacey act violation came into play when he shipped the animal out of Alaska....crossing state lines. Most of the Lacey violations I have seen reported were similar issues or were clearly poaching related. The Lacey Act was used since it is a felony once state lines are crossed. Most instate game laws are simply a slap on the wrist. I did find this article about a revision to the act being proposed. Will be interesting if this changes the law.


WASHINGTON -- Prosecution of Lacey Act violations would be limited to civil penalties under a bill introduced on Thursday by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY).

The bill would also remove foreign law violations as a basis for prosecution.

In the widely publicized raids of Gibson Guitar's Memphis, TN, plants last August, the guitar maker is alleged to have purchased wood from India in violation of that nation's law requiring that wood cannot be exported without being subject to a minimum level of value-added processing.

Paul's Freedom from Over-Criminalization and Unjust Seizures Act of 2012 (FOCUS Act) removes every reference to "foreign law" within the Lacey Act and substitutes the Lacey Act's criminal penalties with what Paul said he dems a "reasonable" civil penalty system.

Was this the caribou case from the Alaska hunt where they hunted the same day they flew in? If so, that is a little different than a violation in another country.

My question would be if I harvested a locally legal animal in say Namibia and never tried to import it can I be charged in the U.S.? Does the mere fact a species can't be legally imported, although legally hunted, make you subject to prosecution? Has it happened? Who is the decision maker in the U.S. as to legal or illegal in a Zimbabwe hunting situation? USFWS, Justice Dept?

Lot to keep up with in this business.

Don

quote:

The Lacey Act was used since it is a felony once state lines are crossed.

Actually, technically, the state lines issue, ie. interstate commerce, is a jurisdictional matter for the feds to prove in their case. Without implicating interstate commerce, the federal court would not have jurisdiction over the subject matter. Then, it would be a state violation. That said, virtually everything in modern life has some connection to interstate commerce.

IIRC, the felony versus misdemeanor distinction is based on value of the illegally taken specimen ($350 I seem to recall) and a distinction of knpwingly versus unknowingly. Of course, I'm just hip shooting on this.

quote:

Originally posted by DonW28:
Was this the caribou case from the Alaska hunt where they hunted the same day they flew in? If so, that is a little different than a violation in another country.

My question would be if I harvested a locally legal animal in say Namibia and never tried to import it can I be charged in the U.S.? Does the mere fact a species can't be legally imported, although legally hunted, make you subject to prosecution? Has it happened? Who is the decision maker in the U.S. as to legal or illegal in a Zimbabwe hunting situation? USFWS, Justice Dept?

Lot to keep up with in this business.

Don

My understanding is that if it is legal activity in the other country the US cannot do anything - it is only when you try to import that they can apply the lacey act, etc.

Boy this website really gets negative...and based on pure speculation. Ugh.

Matt

I think you'll find that the LA can be applied to any US citizen or (probably) resident who breaks any game law anywhere in the world.

I seem to remember a debate here a while ago on this subject and the Judge gave a good breakdown of how it works.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt

I think you'll find that the LA can be applied to any US citizen or (probably) resident who breaks any game law anywhere in the world.

I seem to remember a debate here a while ago on this subject and the Judge gave a good breakdown of how it works.

And that is the heart of my question. Breaks whose game laws? It is legal to shoot a Cheetah in Namibia but it can't be exported into the U.S. As far as I know it is not illegal to kill a cheetah in North Carolina since we don't have any here. At least a search of the NC General Statues on goggle turns up nothing on cheetah harvesting. I doubt there is a federal law (give them time) dealing with cheetah harvesting either. So I can't import it--does that make it illegal as long as the harvest was legal? Non-exportable elephants? Are they automatically illegal since no CITES permit is issued?

Complicated issue here.

Don

Don:

The Lacey Act applies when one breaks the hunting laws in another country. One should not be subject to Lacey Act sanctions if an animal was legally hunted/taken in the country the hunt was conducted.

Wow, getting to be tooo many Bucks here. Justa Buck, aka jdollar, Colorado Buck, Buck McNeely, Bucky Beaver. Seems Buck might not be the best of names to have, especially here on AR?

Funny how these forums always get pushed off topic. From speculation about shooting a female Leopard to the Lacy act. where again a lot of speculation, hearsay and BS comes to the forefront. Has someone mentioned here on this thread been convicted of a Lacy Act Violation? Just asking?

As CHC mentioned, "don't confuse anyone by referencing factual material".

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Conviction

http://www.huntingreport.com/h...e_details.cfm?id=472

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-...circuit/1493582.html

Don,

I'm no expert on the LA and in fact, find it bloody confusing but as I understand it, if no game law of the country in which you are hunting is broken, then (obviously) no violation. If game laws are broken, then there is a violation........

Regarding the issue of elephant/cites that you mention. You don't need a CITES permit to hunt an elephant or other listed animal....only to export/import it. In the case of elephant, it also depends on what country you hunt it in because that species has different listings in different countries. (Easy innit )

If the correct hunting licences and permits were issued in the country where the hunt took place and assuming the PH was licenced etc then you don't need a CITES licence to hunt the animal...... therefore no offence has been committed.

If you do a search, you'll probably find the explanation that the Judge gave some time ago.

(IMO) The LA is a bucking disgraceful piece of legislation.

Hello Steve - Oh no, now we have "bucking legislation" to add to all the other Bucks here. Too much!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Don,

I'm no expert on the LA and in fact, find it bloody confusing but as I understand it, if no game law is broken in the country where the hunt takes place, then (obviously) no violation. If game laws are broken, then there is a violation........

Regarding the issue of elephant/cites that you mention. You don't need a CITES permit to hunt an elephant or other listed animal....only to export/import it. In the case of elephant, it also depends on what country you hunt it in because that species has different listings in different countries. (Easy innit )

If the correct hunting licences and permits were issued in the country where the hunt took place and assuming the PH was licenced etc then you don't need a CITES licence to hunt the animal...... therefore no offence has been committed.

If you do a search, you'll probably find the explanation that the Judge gave some time ago.

(IMO) The LA is a bucking disgraceful piece of legislation.

Hi Larry

Sorry about the dreadful English humour but I just couldn't resist it!

Sometimes my hair trigger sense of humour just gets the better of me!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Wow, getting to be tooo many Bucks here. Justa Buck, aka jdollar, Colorado Buck, Buck McNeely, Bucky Beaver. Seems Buck might not be the best of names to have, especially here on AR?

Funny how these forums always get pushed off topic. From speculation about shooting a female Leopard to the Lacy act. where again a lot of speculation, hearsay and BS comes to the forefront. Has someone mentioned here on this thread been convicted of a Lacy Act Violation? Just asking?

As CHC mentioned, "don't confuse anyone by referencing factual material".

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry,
You are right about off topic. I think Will Parks answered the original question of male or female on the 1st response of what is now 3 pages. Seems the answer was a male (little one).

I must confess to with the legal questions.

I'm punching out on this one while I'm ahead.

Regards,

Don

Don - Didn't mean for you to leave. If it were not for off topics here, things would be quite dull. Just mentioned how often it happens. Some are not satisfied with the "correct, simple answers" here so on and on it goes.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by DonW28:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Wow, getting to be tooo many Bucks here. Justa Buck, aka jdollar, Colorado Buck, Buck McNeely, Bucky Beaver. Seems Buck might not be the best of names to have, especially here on AR?

Funny how these forums always get pushed off topic. From speculation about shooting a female Leopard to the Lacy act. where again a lot of speculation, hearsay and BS comes to the forefront. Has someone mentioned here on this thread been convicted of a Lacy Act Violation? Just asking?

As CHC mentioned, "don't confuse anyone by referencing factual material".

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry,
You are right about off topic. I think Will Parks answered the original question of male or female on the 1st response of what is now 3 pages. Seems the answer was a male (little one).

I must confess to with the legal questions.

I'm punching out on this one while I'm ahead.

Regards,

Don