The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What Happens To SA Hunting With The New Farm Grab Push?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Some wonderful "PURPOSE"... Genocide, starvation, economic collapse...no Saeed, it serves NO purpose other than to enrich the new Mau Mau hierarchy. If that's what you meant, I guess you're correct. | |||
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Spot on, Ray. Africans will destroy Africa, now that they have the modern means to do so. Hunting there for the average guy is a thing of the past. The ultra-rich will have little problem, however. They just bribe and buy officials, and all is as it was. | |||
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Spot on!  | |||
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Any comment from our "socialist" New Zealander?  | |||
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About 40,000 Matabele might disagree with that statement... | |||
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Redistribution of wealth (land) has not worked anywhere. Sad to say as the issue progresses RSA will collapse upon itself into anarchy Tim | |||
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https://www.news24.com/Video/S...land-summit-20180824 Link has video. WATCH: 'At least 60% of commercial farmland will have to be distributed' - professor tells land summit 24 August, 12:23 PM "I think that the agricultural industry does not fully appreciate the significance of the scale issue." These were the sobering words of Professor Ben Cousins, the University of the Western Cape's Poverty, Land and Agrarian Studies chairperson. Speaking to News24 at the Landbouweekblad / AgriSA land summit in Bela-Bela, Limpopo on Thursday, Cousins outlined the risks of paying lip service to agrarian reform in South Africa. "At least 60% of commercial farmland will have to be distributed, otherwise the destructive forms of populism, as embodied in the EFF, will take hold amongst the unemployed youth of the country," he said. Cousins added that land redistribution had to involve many beneficiaries on very large amounts of productive land. "We need to transform what happens in the markets. The problem is the domination of big retailers and their power over farmers," added Mazibuko Jara of Ntinga Ntaba KaNdoda, a rural development organisation in the Eastern Cape. Jara feels that even public institutions, such as hospitals, prisons and schools, can become valuable markets for produce from small-scale farmers. Parliament recently embarked on a series of public hearings countrywide to allow South Africans the opportunity to air their views on the amendment of the Constitution to allow land expropriation without compensation. This follows an ANC resolution taken at its 2017 national elective conference that land should be expropriated without compensation. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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As long they are king, the ANC and Julius don't care if it's king of the ash heap. No capital will come into South Africa. The banking system will collapse with unpaid loans. The crash will be harder than Zimbabwe because there is a much longer way to fall. The Chinese will own sub-Sahara Africa by 2030. The 21st century version of colonialism. The Africans don't care as long as their new masters give them money and aren't white. Oh, no more wild animals. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I returned from South Africa a few days ago. The above is the best assessment of the situation to be penned here. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Have Blacks ever invented anything decent? They are big in destroying, that‘s for sure. Julius Malema wants to get rid of white people, but what about his Mercedes, LandRover, Rolex and designer suits? Everything what he owns wasn‘t fabricated by black people. Thank you Trump, now the SA government is under observation. | |||
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I reckon the only way the ANC & Madman Malema can be reined in would be for the western Governments to tell the SA Govt that all foreign aid, including NGO foreign aid will be halted & trade embargoes put in place until they get their shit together.............. but I can't see that ever happening. My guess is the west will (disgracefully) simply continue to turn a blind eye to what's going on.  | |||
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My worries are the White Farmers who stay will have the same fate as the Jews in Nazi Germany. No telling what amount of money and Human Resources have been offered to the ANC by the Chinease. Most of us on this forum have friends in RSA. I am glad that our President is aware and willing to do something about this terrible situation. Call your Congressmen. My prayers and concerns are with the White Farmers. | |||
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I wonder what will happen with beachfront/golf/winery real estate from Durban, through the Garden Route and on to Cape Town? Will they set their sights on this eventually? | |||
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For what its worth, no bill has yet been passed and no land has been grabbed according to some folks I know and tend to believe..I also read where its a internet rumor, not fact... I don't know just passing this on for speculation other than rumor mongering..I have little or no faith in any African government however, mostly they can screw up an anvil with a powder puff, but hey, the USA congress and Senate deserves a blue ribbon for that!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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It's no internet rumor sadly, it's for real. I watched "Blackhawk Down" last night, and then I saw the future .... food shortages, government collapse, warlords, and genocide. And it's still going on, Somalia has been a bloody mess since 1991. Same movie has played out in Congo, Central African Republic, Chad, Nigeria, Burundi, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Angola .. Uganda round II soon .. Botswana, Namibia prepare for refugees. Those with passports, make sure they are current and save up for airfare and a month's living expenses in Kruger Rands or USD. Don't put any money in any bank ... look at what just happened in Venezuela and what happened in Zimbabwe 10 years ago. Sell anything you don't absolutely need to raise cash and convert that to gold or foreign currency. This is not going to be a "shelter in place" scenario so you don't need to stockpile food etc. It's not like a hurricane that will be over in a week. It's going to be a prolonged slugfest, once it gets going it could last for 10 or 20 years, so head for the exits as soon as you can get your affairs in order, and hopefully before it starts. Rest of world, get ready with food aid and "peacekeeping". Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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https://citizen.co.za/news/sou...-land-expropriation/ Theresa backs Cyril on ‘legal’ land expropriation Daniel Friedman The UK prime minister was forced by a journalist to confront the land issue, one which if given a choice she would have likely preferred to avoid. After many analysts expected British prime minister Theresa May to ignore the issue of land expropriation entirely, she was evidently unable to do so after being confronted directly on the issue by an SABC journalist. She responded that she did indeed back President Cyril Ramaphosa on the land issue after he assured her in a meeting that the ANC’s policy on land expropriation without compensation won’t result in a “smash and grab.” May added that her government has supported land reform for some time, as long as it’s “legal.” This appears to echo Ramaphosa’s sentiments. The South African president seems to be walking a difficult tightrope between keeping potential voters who support expropriation without compensation happy and trying not to scare potential investors after pledging to get the economy back on track. In March he said: “We are going to return the land to our people so that our people can have their birth right,” but added that this must be done “within the confines of the law”. “To those who still hold land, we are passing on a very powerful message that Freedom Charter says. The land must be shared by all the people of our country,” said Ramaphosa. “We are not going to steal and grab land,” he added. “We are going to want to put the land to best use so our people can regain their wealth.” The land issue is likely a difficult one for May to discuss at a time when she is looking to strengthen ties with South Africa and Africa in general as the UK moves closer towards Brexit. She has commited to increasing investment in South Africa. While the governments of Australia and the United States have taken official positions on South Africa’s land issues, the United Kingdom is likely to take a more diplomatic approach on the surface. This, however, would not mean that South Africa’s former colonisers were sold on the expropriation of land without compensation, said political analyst Tshepo Tselapedi. “Part of the problem is the nexus of a powerful white minority with established economic ties with places such as the UK, and the network runs deep. “There is a lot of paranoia at the moment against the policy of expropriation, even though there has been no modality that has been put on the table. “There needs to be some sort of communication from us to the UK. But, remember, government can’t have a position on the matter as we are still going through public hearings and other processes. “The ANC only took a position on the broader discussion of the proposal and the modalities that they have looked at.” Additional reporting by Simnikiwe Hlatsheneni Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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May is barking bloody mad................. She really does need to go. | |||
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And here I was thinking that the government represented all the citizens, so who is "our people"? The ANC only represents blacks, is that it? In which country does birth entitle one to a farm? What does the rule of law mean if one can change the law for political ends? And how does one become wealthy on a postage stamp of land? A farm laborer on a commercial farm in a capitalist society is better off than a subsistence farmer in a communist state. It all comes back to ideology, to the "Freedom Charter", which is not the constitution, it is a delusional political manifesto outlining a society where the mines, the banks, the factories and the farms all belong to the state. They tried this in the Soviet Union, Communist China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea and a few other places where the results were all the same: misery, famine, political genocide, and totalitarianism. So regardless of whether it's done within the law or not, nobody in their right mind would want to live in such a country. Conclusion is the same, buy that airline ticket. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Racist to the core ( black Africans - hope not all of them but add greed and it’s done ) Hitler all over again... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Fascinating how some people seem to stand against land grab in one country, while supporting it wholeheartedly in another! | |||
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https://www.newsweek.com/south...seizure-bill-1093158 WORLD SOUTH AFRICA PLOWS ON WITH LAND SEIZURE REFORM, DROPS BILL OFFERING COMPENSATION BY DAVID BRENNAN ON 8/28/18 AT 12:00 PM A bill that would have allowed the South African government to enact compulsory land purchases with compensation has been withdrawn from consideration. The amendment was withdrawn by the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, Reuters reported. It was initially passed by parliament in 2016 but had not yet been signed into law. The issue of land expropriation in South Africa gained international attention this week when President Donald Trump weighed in, voicing his support for white farmers who he claimed are under threat of “large scale killing” and having their land taken from them. The South African government quickly dismissed Trump’s assertion, describing the tweet as a “narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past.” The removed amendment covered “just and equitable” payment for land seizures. However, it has been withdrawn in case it clashes with any proposals coming from government-ordered review of a possible constitutional amendment to allow land seizures without compensation. According to Eyewitness News, the committee’s chairperson Humphrey Mmemezi said Parliament submitted the bill on procedural grounds, but that the body cannot duplicate a separate parliamentary process. “If we, as Parliament, resolve to hear the people of South Africa on that important clause, it then goes without question that we must send the bill back to Parliament,” he explained. “We’re also quite aware that our parliament has set up an ad hoc committee that deals with Section 25 of the Constitutional reviewal committee,” Mmemezi said, “which is already preparing a report to the same parliament.” As such, he said the committee had no choice but to withdraw it. President Cyril Ramaphosa said earlier this month that his government would continue its pursuit of the amendment to allow the expropriation of land without offering compensation. No such amendment has yet been passed. In its statement, the ANC reiterated its continued commitment to “the expropriation of land without compensation as one of the measures to ensure that land reform is implemented in a way that increases agricultural production, improves food security and ensures that the land is returned to those...from whom it was taken under colonialism and apartheid.” The issue has become a cause célèbre for white nationalist groups across the globe, especially in Anglophone nations. Many commentators criticized Trump for parroting far-right conspiracy theories about so-called “white genocide.” According to AgriSA—a collective of hundreds of agricultural groups across the country—the murder rate for white farmers is currently at a 20-year low, though the number of attacks has been increasing. Seventy-two percent of land in South Africa is held by white farmers, even though they represent just 8 percent of the population. This inequality serves as a powerful reminder of the racial divide that persists between the country’s white and black citizens nearly 25 years after the end of apartheid. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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The removed amendment covered “just and equitable” payment for land seizures. However, it has been withdrawn in case it clashes with any proposals coming from government-ordered review of a possible constitutional amendment to allow land seizures without compensation. So they did not want to pay the 10% of the value of the land, so they withdrew it?? To make it a complete take over without any compensation?? | |||
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Don’t worry, Africa doesn’t have the monopoly on Land Reform. In Scotland the govt now has powers to compulsory purchase land for sustainable development. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...d_reform_in_Scotland Admittedly we don’t have the violence of Zim or RSA, but.... | |||
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South Africa has not been a colony of Britain since May 31, 1910. That would mean that even if you are on your last legs, you, your father, and probably your grandfather were never subject to colonial rule. From 1910 to 1931 Great Britain retained loose control over South Africa through an appointed Governor General but it was run by an elected Parliament. In 1931 even the weak controls retained by Britain went by the wayside. In 1961 the country became a Republic. Futhermore, only the Cape and Natal were ever colonies. The Transvaal and the Free State were Republics. The blacks have little claim at all to the land in the Cape, as it was never settled by blacks, and most of the land in Natal that was traditionally occupied by the Zulus ("Zululand") was made into a black homeland "Kwazulu" under Apartheid. That meant the white farmers in Zululand were forced off their farms by the Nationalist (Afrikaner) government and handed over to the Zulu King. Do they now get their land back? Adding to the irony, most of today's farmers are Afrikaners (aka Boers) whose ancestors resisted and even went to war with Britain to throw off colonial ties. So to equate them with colonialism is just a "Mugabe-ism". "Colonial" is a euphemism for "white" in African politics. What the ANC likes to bring up is the Natives Land Act of 1913, stating that this displaced blacks off "their land". In fact, this act decreed that whites were not allowed to buy land from natives and vice versa. That stopped white farmers from buying more native land. Exceptions had to be approved by the Governor-General. The native areas left initially totaled less than 10% of the entire land mass of the Union, which was later expanded to 13%. The Act further prohibited the practice of serfdom or sharecropping. (Slavery was abolished in the Cape Colony in 1834 and was never legal in the rest of what is now RSA). It also protected existing agreements or arrangement of land hired or leased by both parties. What the ANC ignores is the role of the Zulu tribe in the land issue. In the first two decades of the 19th century, the Zulu people grew in power and expanded their territory under their leader, Shaka. Shaka's warfare indirectly led to the Mfecane ("crushing"), in which 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 people were killed and the inland plature was devastated and depopulated in the early 1820s. An offshoot of the Zulu, the Matabele people created a larger empire that included large parts of the highveld under their king Mzilikazi. The Matabele were later chased out of South Africa to Zimbabwe, where they are now a disempowered political minority. So one could argue that a good portion of the land in South Africa actually belongs to people now living in Zimbabwe, and not to South African blacks at all. And almost all of the Cape and some of KZ Natal belongs to the San people by these arguments. What they also ignore is the fact that 90% of the blacks alive today would probably not be alive, had the white man not brought law and order, penicillin and quinine to South Africa. What is "dividing the nation" are the recent laws, policies and rhetoric of the ANC, which specify different treatment according to race; constantly refer to the "formerly advantaged", the "former racist regime", the "former apartheid regime"; sing songs about killing Boers with machine guns; consistently disparage whites and whiteness; and seek to make the white minority in South Africa insignificant second class citizens. The EFF, a more radical political party, wants whites to meet a more grisly end. As in the case of Zimbabwe, the ANC knows that the way to make the white man an insignificant historical footnote is to take their land. Kind of like the early days in the USA, where killing the buffalo was used to crush the red man. In the final analysis, as Mao Zedong stated, power comes out of the barrel of a gun. An important corollary to that law is that the most fecund racial group has more guns. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Cripes, I'm SICK of the "colonial rule' whining. Arguably the best thing that happened to most countries including the good old USA,and ESPECIALLY those in sub-saharan Africa, was being under the British orb. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Yesterday a friend came over. He has been to South Africa several times - tourist, not hunting. This year they got robbed. Inside their villa, in a supposedly secure area. He left with his family he next day and stayed in a hotel. He is not going there again! | |||
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So what, one can get robbed anywhere, also at Dubai. My neighbours got murdered in Germany. I’m living in South Africa since 35 years, never got robbed nor murdered... | |||
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Surely you're not suggesting that crime & murder rates in SA have not increased dramatically over the last 25 years? REALLY?  | |||
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The Rand to Dollar is now $14.77 to $1.00 USD. Those who want to sell and leave SA cannot because no one is buying anything in SA with all the chaos present. And forget about transferring any large sums of money out of the country because that is an impossibility at the moment. Folks are attempting to drive across the Namibian border with their cash in an effort to at least get it into banks there - and few banks want to take on new foreign accounts for fear of government reprisals. So at the end of the day, the government will most likely come running to the aid of the white farmers and purchase land at pennies on the dollar and boast how they bailed out the whites in SA. Mission Accomplished and FUBAR. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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That I never said, only pointed out that one can get robbed in any country, also in Portugal. To skip a country because one got robbed once is silly. | |||
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One can indeed get robbed anywhere & I'm not suggesting hunters should boycott SA but it's perfectly reasonable they should be aware of the increasing crime situation there. | |||
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Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I can assure you, you can walk anywhere in Dubai, any time of day or night, and there is 0.000001% of you being robbed! Can we say that about South Africa? We were flying to Dar hunting. I picked up Walter and Nelson from Walter's house, and drove to the airport. When we got there, Nelson found out that he had left his carry on bag on the pavement in front of Walter's house. I called my driver to go find it. The drive to airport takes at least half an hour, the bag was standing there for about an hour. My driver picked it up, and brought it to us. I wonder how long that bag would have lasted in South Africa. You trying to defend all acts of criminality is South Africa is not going to solve it. Get your government to do something about. | |||
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In 1995, my aunt and uncle who were in the travel business, were visiting Saudi Arabia. My aunt left her bag with five thousand in cash on a chair at the airport. When they went back in an obvious panic an hour later, the bag was still there... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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If the ANC keeps this up, it will be R1477 to the $, then 1477000 to the $ ... I remember when you could buy a Kruger Rand for R29 .. now you can't even buy a cup of coffee for that. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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And our friend Sunshine is comparing Dubai, probably one of the safest cities in the world, with South Africa???  Talk about burying your head in the sand!  | |||
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100% ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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No problem as long we are talking about my beloved South African sand  | |||
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I honestly wish you all the best. I enjoyed the few times I visited South Africa, but I hesitate in going there again when the crime rate is so high. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What Happens To SA Hunting With The New Farm Grab Push?
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And, you are guaranteed to a trial by jury for your damages if it doesn't settle. With that said, what does South Africa offer its citizens? That's the real question.