Getting money into Africa is not a problem. Getting it out is a BITCH and you better know your banker well along with a few folks in government. Everyone in Africa is fighting Capital Flight - especially now...

Smart outfitters keep their $$$ outside of Africa so when it goes South, and it will, there is some insurance.

No bank is going to lend a white farmer money in RSA now, not in the form of a "bond" (mortgage). So that plan is not going to work.

Nobody is going to buy a farm in RSA now. Not even a black man ... so selling is not going to work either.

Nobody is going to invest capital in any long term farm project now. Some won't even spend money planting crops now. In Zim the farmers that were shupa'd were not allowed to bring in their crops or take any farm equipment, just their personal effects. So farm production will decline even before the first farm is taken and effectively stop when it is taken.

There will be a hunger crisis in Southern Africa that makes any other look like a company picnic. The West will of course provide "food aid", and musicians will of course hold concerts, but give a man a fish ...

The wildlife will be decimated and the land will be eroded, denuded and burned. The irrigation equipment will be looted. The fences will be torn down.

There will be general capital flight and a brain drain. The entire economy will collapse. The ZAR will be reissued many times with 000 lopped off the end, until it costs more to print the notes than they are worth.

It's the end, folks. Not only of RSA but of the entire subcontinent. Only Botswana will come out of it relatively unscathed and even they will suffer from the disruption. Zim and Namibia will go down with RSA in unison.

The Chinese will step in to pick up the pieces.
Goodbye Rhino, join the Dodo.

This is what happens when you force democracy onto a society that can't fathom their own destiny.

+2

Our SA friends are keeping rather quiet.

Based on what Ive seen in years past, nothing good can come of legislation made by the indigenous of Africa, simple as that.

And so it begins...https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/south-africa-begins-seizing-whiteowned-farms/news-story/8937f899bd3f131bfc4ffb648ea5c53b

There is no stopping once this starts .. if you give one person a free farm ten thousand more will be standing in line looking for their free farms. The process for taking the farms will be part retaliation for real or imaginary transgressions (as in the case of the first two farms), part greed (the best and most lucrative farms will be taken by the political elite), and part bureaucratic chaos. It will take some years but in the end all of the farms that have any value will be taken with the possible exception of those held by people who have political allies. Even those will eventually be brought to heel.

And the process for handing out the farms will likely be corrupt .. just like the process for handing out government jobs. One widespread scheme is to require the successful applicant to pay a percentage of each paycheck to the person who has the hiring authority. So it's likely that the new farmers will be modern-day sharecroppers. Up til now, they have not been given title, and it's not likely that they ever will be. The land will belong to the govt and they will use it for political purposes. Grantees who don't vote ANC will find themselves kicked off and replaced by party faithful or party leaders.

This is Marxism, African style. It's tragic for those that have invested a lifetime in their farms; it's a disaster for the current employees; it will be a wildlife disaster of unprecedented proportions; and it's an economic disaster for the country and the entire subcontinent. But where has Marxism not been a disaster? I don't know the full story of pre-Lenin Russia but it seems that farms were a big part of that story as well .. presumably private farms were taken and made into collective farms, and a lot of people died of hunger and those that complained died of gunshot wounds to the back of the head ..

So true!

Hunting will end as the animals will be killed. Trees cut down, equipment and houses will be destroyed though lack of upkeep. I saw it happen to friends in Zim and will do so in SA if nothing is done.
Cal

Many years ago, we were the last hunters to hunt a property in South Africa before it was turned over to black land claimants. The white owners were in the process of moving out during our ten days there. I was told that the property was subsequently poached out, trees cut down, the lodge and the guest houses literally taken apart for what may have been valuable. Sad.

What happens to SA hunting....? It's gone, my friend. Gone. Paint it with whatever brush you want. It's gone.

Guys I am A south African land owner and all this is very worrying for us all, but reading some of these posts like' hunting is gone' and Mr fulvio' with our Sa friends are rather quiet' makes me rather sad... has any body given thought to this... the owners want R200 MILION?? DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA how much money that is for any property let alone a hunting ranch in the far north of the country?? Now I am not saying they property is not worth allot of money I own just as much hunting land just west of there. That is R62500 per hectare. Now unless there is a massive irrigation operation there is well..."their might be I don't know" it is far above market value of about R12000 A HECTARE.

Please I m not saying what government do is good!! it is 100% wrong but just sometimes I think we must sit back relax a little and get all the info and take it from there.

keep in mind I own just as much land. Time will tell please support us.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Guys I am A south African land owner and all this is very worrying for us all, but reading some of these posts like' hunting is gone' and Mr fulvio' with our Sa friends are rather quiet' makes me rather sad... has any body given thought to this... the owners want R200 MILION?? DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA how much money that is for any property let alone a hunting ranch in the far north of the country?? Now I am not saying they property is not worth allot of money I own just as much hunting land just west of there. That is R62500 per hectare. Now unless there is a massive irrigation operation there is well..."their might be I don't know" it is far above market value of about R12000 A HECTARE.

Please I m not saying what government do is good!! it is 100% wrong but just sometimes I think we must sit back relax a little and get all the info and take it from there.

keep in mind I own just as much land. Time will tell please support us.

I don’t think anyone here wants to see you lose anything.

But, this is happening to others negatives regarding South Africa.

Let us take the rampant crime, at Johannesburg airport and major cities.

I know someone who has been going to Cape Town fir his family holidays for years, and they all loved it there.

This year someone broke into their rented villa while they were there.

They are not going back to South Africa again!

When I go on holiday, I like to enjoy myself.

Not keep looking behind me for some criminals who are bent on robbing me.

From what we can see, the government is not really interested in solving crimes at all - how can they, when they are involved in them themselves??

How come these crimes stopped, or vastly reduced, during the FIFA WORLD CUP??

Doesn’t that tells you something?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Guys I am A south African land owner and all this is very worrying for us all, but reading some of these posts like' hunting is gone' and Mr fulvio' with our Sa friends are rather quiet' makes me rather sad... has any body given thought to this... the owners want R200 MILION?? DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA how much money that is for any property let alone a hunting ranch in the far north of the country?? Now I am not saying they property is not worth allot of money I own just as much hunting land just west of there. That is R62500 per hectare. Now unless there is a massive irrigation operation there is well..."their might be I don't know" it is far above market value of about R12000 A HECTARE.

Please I m not saying what government do is good!! it is 100% wrong but just sometimes I think we must sit back relax a little and get all the info and take it from there.

keep in mind I own just as much land. Time will tell please support us.

I don’t think anyone here wants to see you lose anything.

But, this is happening to others negatives regarding South Africa.

Let us take the rampant crime, at Johannesburg airport and major cities.

I know someone who has been going to Cape Town fir his family holidays for years, and they all loved it there.

This year someone broke into their rented villa while they were there.

They are not going back to South Africa again!

When I go on holiday, I like to enjoy myself.

Not keep looking behind me for some criminals who are bent on robbing me.

From what we can see, the government is not really interested in solving crimes at all - how can they, when they are involved in them themselves??

How come these crimes stopped, or vastly reduced, during the FIFA WORLD CUP??

Doesn’t that tells you something?

Bingo. We have a winner.

quote:

.....but reading some of these posts like' hunting is gone' and Mr fulvio' with our Sa friends are rather quiet' makes me rather sad...

Isn't it the truth?

Or do you and some others still want to try and pull the wool over unsuspecting eyes? ... that South Africa is as safe as can be and politically stable?

Just how many hard-working patriotic South African (Boetes) farmers have been murdered and others coerced to leave their land or parts thereof to this murderous population whose regard for human life is similar to that of squashing a cockroach underfoot?

I know what land-grabbing means; in some places it is called "nationalization" which boils down to forcefully appropriating land without violence and little or no compensation.

So Mr. Du Plessis, please don't preach to the choir.

fulvio what wool? you must be joking correct? all I said is 200mil is a hell of allot of money for 3200 ha is that so hard for you to understand? and please my name is Phillip not Mr Du Plessis unlike you I post my details.

Mr Shores I for one have allot of respect for you and always follow and like your posts on everything never did I realise this is a competition? maybe I mist something

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
fulvio what wool? you must be joking correct? all I said is 200mil is a hell of allot of money for 3200 ha is that so hard for you to understand? and please my name is Phillip unlike not Mr Du Plessis unlike you I post my details.

Mr Shores I for one have allot of respect for you and always follow and like your posts on everything never did I realise this is a competition? maybe I mist something

Instead of arguing what others have posted, why don’t you tell us what is going with the unfettered crime in South Africa?


Non of us are happy this happening, but facts speak for themselves!

A friend had robbers break into his house, rob him and his family, and shot him in the knee!

That was a few years ago, the culprits must have some connections, as they were never caught - just like the majority of criminals!

We have extremely low crime rate where we are, and I have no doubt at all this is due to the very harsh punishment criminals get.

Not supported by the government!

I know you might not agree with my last sentence, but can you explain to us why crimes stopped during the World Cup??

Saeed I never ever said anything about the crime nor did I denied it, Africa is a mess we all know it but Please read what I said 200 mil for the land that is allot of money that was my only comment You seem to know everything about my country and the crime why should I tell you more??

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Saeed I never ever said anything about the crime nor did I denied it, Africa is a mess we all know it but Please read what I said 200 mil for the land that is allot of money that was my only comment You seem to know everything about my country and the crime why should I tell you more??

So if I wanted to buy your farm, and you asked for 200 million Rand, and I give you 10% of that and take it you are happy??

Yes!! if my farm is worth what the valuation is I will take it ! Do you have any idea how much money 200mil is for 3200 ha? please go and look at some game ranch prices and their market value.it is between R8000 and R12000 ha on the high side!! with good water maybe R20000 a ha on the high side!!

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
fulvio what wool? you must be joking correct? all I said is 200mil is a hell of allot of money for 3200 ha is that so hard for you to understand? and please my name is Phillip not Mr Du Plessis unlike you I post my details.

Mr Shores I for one have allot of respect for you and always follow and like your posts on everything never did I realise this is a competition? maybe I mist something

All I meant was that Saeed was correct in what he was saying about the government’s ability to stop all of these problems during the World Cup. My apologies for any confusion.

Mr Shores all good hope your hunting is going fantastic! all the best To you sir.

Pictured: £10m hunting lodge seized as South Africa's land-grab against white-owned farms begins | Daily Mail Online

Not sure if this is the same property from Saeed,s favorite news outlet ..
Its a cluster#### however we look at it. There will be more folks looking for sanctuary in friendly countries.
That has already started as we only have to look to Steve (Shakari) for conformation. Who must have seen this coming long ago.jc

quote:

Or do you and some others still want to try and pull the wool over unsuspecting eyes? ... that South Africa is as safe as can be and politically stable?

Phil,

Please read what I wrote.

Who ever raised or questioned the worth of your property - I for sure did not and would definitely be on your side as far as its value is concerned.

And as Saeed said: "Non of us are happy this happening, but facts speak for themselves!"

A huge shame all the way around

Are these land numbers based on the land itself or does it include losing a business based on the land. If I had land taken from me, I'd demand what income I make off the land as well in any compensation offered. For me, seeing this in US dollars makes it easier to comprehend because that's what I know. Is 13million USD reasonable for that land since the business being run also goes away? That's 1500 dollars an acre versus 160 dollars an acre that was offered.

Not sure what the South African Constitution provides for takings for a public use. Here in the US we are covered by takings for a public use, at a minimum, by the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution, with most, if not all states having a similar law in their State Constitutions, so ya'll keep that in mind. What we Americans have, may not be what they have in South Africa. (i.e. think the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, as another example). Different worlds and different guarantees and laws. Just Compensation for public use in Nevada cases is based upon fair market value (i.e. defined as the highest price that the property would bring-which would also include buildings and improvements on the real property, business losses, costs of relocation, damages resulting from excessive delay or unreasonable conduct of the government, damages to any remaining property negatively affected by the taking, and interest, costs and potentially, attorney's fees) of the property being taken. It really boils down to a battle of expert appraisers oftentimes in Court if the parties cannot agree and settle it. And, you are guaranteed to a trial by jury for your damages if it doesn't settle. With that said, what does South Africa offer its citizens? That's the real question.

The elephant in the room here is what happens if one books a hunt, pays a deposit, and the land is then taken before the hunt? That will happen to some folks, possibly in 2018 but more likely starting in 2019.

Regarding the Constitution, the current version provides for compensation to the current owner based on market value. But the ANC has run out of money (or somehow the money they had disappeared .. hau, we haven't got money!). The ANC is making changes to the constitution to allow taking of land without any compensation, or for arbitrary (read pittance) compensation determined unilaterally by the govt.

The ZAR200 million case is one where the land has been claimed under the prior land claims law/process, but the owners have been asking a rather high price for their land apparently based on theoretical subdivision into game farmettes or vacation villas. The ANC is now punishing them for their recalcitrance by forcing a much lower price. This is a case that has been in the works for some time.

So Phillip is correct in pointing out that the ZAR200 million is not exactly "fair market value", it's really a legal tactic, but the point is the govt can now be arbitrary, the owners cannot use the legal system to get full market value. And if the Gov't decides to pay nothing, apparently there is no recourse now.

Shame. Changing the law as you go to suit your needs.

I think I read somewhere only 13% of SA soil is owned by farmers. Why does the SA try to make something useful of the other 87%?..
Well..I know the answer already..

I guess in time all property owned by whites from farms, townhouses, companies etc will be seized only to become absorbed in the black chaos and turmoil.

I posted a new thread with these links and it got deleted. Not sure why it was deleted.

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfri...rm-killings-20180823

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfri...ion-of-land-20180822

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Not sure what the South African Constitution provides for takings for a public use. Here in the US we are covered by takings for a public use, at a minimum, by the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution, with most, if not all states having a similar law in their State Constitutions, so ya'll keep that in mind. What we Americans have, may not be what they have in South Africa. (i.e. think the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, as another example). Different worlds and different guarantees and laws. Just Compensation for public use in Nevada cases is based upon fair market value (i.e. defined as the highest price that the property would bring-which would also include buildings and improvements on the real property, business losses, costs of relocation, damages resulting from excessive delay or unreasonable conduct of the government, damages to any remaining property negatively affected by the taking, and interest, costs and potentially, attorney's fees) of the property being taken. It really boils down to a battle of expert appraisers oftentimes in Court if the parties cannot agree and settle it. And, you are guaranteed to a trial by jury for your damages if it doesn't settle. With that said, what does South Africa offer its citizens? That's the real question.

They are changing the constitution to suit their purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
http://newsupdatessa.site/i-am...solved-donald-trump/

I haven't heard anything about this??????


.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
http://newsupdatessa.site/i-am...solved-donald-trump/

I haven't heard anything about this??????


.

Fake News.

I moved it to the POLITICAL FORUM.

If you wish to discuss it, please do so there.

But one thing is clear, they’ll do it and most severe sanctions should be implemented, period
It is that simple

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
http://newsupdatessa.site/i-am...solved-donald-trump/

I haven't heard anything about this??????


.

It's because the site is political satire, much like The Onion. Open the "About Us" link at the top right.