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Im just interested if you would hunt on confiscated land in Zimbabwe and with "black listed people" if it wasnt a lacey act violation. Would people be able to resist lower price etc. Would it be ok to hunt on a confiscated farm if the new "owner" did right for himself and gave the old owner that was thrown out money every year ??? What do the outfitters from Zim say on this forum ? Martin etc ? Is it a NO NO. | ||
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#1 no on hunting with black listed people- #2 absent black list perhaps check with old owner-this one is tougher but not much still a bad thing SSR | |||
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NO! On any confiscated land I ever set foot on, there wasn't enough game to feed a Shrew. Ethics aside, you would be wasting a lot of money and time. Besides, you might wind up as dinner. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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after watching documentary Mugabe and the white farmer there is no way I could hunt on the land in either case. | |||
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I would not. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Absolutely amazing.  | |||
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Not me. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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I would not and do not want to hunt in Zim. When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults! | |||
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Never on confiscated land. I will hunt in Zim to support the landowners and operators who have defied the odds and survived. They are the wildlife's only hope. | |||
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It is apparently my burden to amaze the ignorant. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Sad to say, I would have trouble ever hunting in Zimbabwe again. You can not hold out any hope that Bob's Posse will not unleash a reign of terror when he dies. If money can't sway you, what can? Rich DRSS | |||
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+1 Mike | |||
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No. | |||
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How many people hunt on land taken from the Indians? Jim | |||
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I would not hunt on confiscated land in Zim. Michael - Not to worry it doesn't take much to amaze 505. He even amazes himself sometimes. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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No, And No... I have hunted in Zim for 3 Safaris. As a result I have met, and become friends with several "White Zimbabweans". They are some of the finest people I have ever met. I have become knowledgeable with the history of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have hunted Zim three times. I hope to go back in 2012. I will chose an outfitter whom I believe is doing the right thing on his respective concession, one who is working to support the future of sport hunting in Zim. There is still hope for the Zim safari industry. There are still honorable professionals in the business who, we as clients, should support. 114-R10David | |||
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Absolutely, positively NOT. There is no such things confiscated land and the new owners paying money to the old owners. If it is confiscated, they cannot have any of my business. | |||
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A few years ago at the Eastern sports Show there was an exhibitor who was booking hunts on confiscated land. Boy did he get his. First his booth was surrounded by ZIMph's outfitters who were hanging on by the skin of there teeth. Lo and behold the guy ran into some really ticked off Zimbabwean natural citizens and his clock was cleaned in the parking lot. Mike | |||
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For me, a NO, NO.. Perhaps better to get an answer from an evicted land owner, they may need the money, perhaps them getting something is better than nothing, many of them are destitute. Mart martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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I think 505 is referring to your selective morality. You have found it not to be your burden to protect your own bretheren but will gladly stand in other peoples battles. Next, Indians did not "own" land here. Also if you hunt with people on the state departments no business list you are open to prosecution and very stiff fines, but I do not believe it is under the Lacey Act. Lastly, no I would not hunt on said properties. | |||
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I'm no lawyer and would welcome comment from someone who is but as I understand it, it's not impossible for a US citizen to be prosecuted under a number of acts for hunting on seized land, including under the Lacey Act. As far as the LA is concerned, (as I understand it) anyone who breaks a game law whilst overseas can be prosecuted and as the true owner of the area (presumably) hasn't granted permission for the hunt, then the hunter would be in breach of the game laws. The section entitled 'Considerations for Hunting Zimbabwe' here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-zimbabwe.html might also be of interest. | |||
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You are not breaking any Zim laws by hunting there, and as much as I hate to say it, the taken properties now belong to the takers, even if the whites were robbed from. Unless you shoot protected game on the property, or violate legal laws of hunting there or tresspass into other properties without permission, then the Lacey Act won't come into play. You will fall into 9 types of other hell though. | |||
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I take your point and maybe Martin Pieters or Don can comment more knowledgeably but I seem to remember from previous threads that the game laws haven't been altered and that the permission of the actual landowner is still legally required. If I'm right in that, then the hunter would be in breach of the LA..... As you say though, even without prosecution, they deserve 9 types of hell for doing it. | |||
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I didn't know the indians had a claim to any land. As far as I remember they never claimed any ownership or possessory interest in property. Who did they dispossess to acquire it? The Gauls, Mongols, Visigoths? Romans? My PH was a former Zim resident who had his farm confiscated. He would be glad to weigh in on this topic. Dutch | |||
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You never heard the story about Pieter Minuit, who paid the equivalent of $24.00 to the local Native Americans for the island of Manhattan? With a name like Dutch, I would have thought you'd know that!  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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You never heard the whole story. He paid the equivalent of $24 bucks in a swindle because he believed those indians owned that island. His glass bead deal never secured Manhattan Island for anyone. | |||
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It would NEVER be OK with me. I have friends from Zim with deep family roots that have been through this. I have felt their pain. I don't care if it was free and they were sending a plane to pick me up!  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Not a chance on either. | |||
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Simple answer...Hell no. Regards, Brian "If you can't go all out, don't go..." | |||
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Bill just for discussion purposes, but I can see it happend with perhaps mostly European hunters with no or less knowledge of Zimbabwe and as you say time goes by and people maybe tend to think that was a long time ago and its no big deal now. | |||
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It was NOT that long ago...AND...it is still going on...it WILL ALWAYS be a BIG DEAL! Just think about it...I have good friends not much older than I that fought in the Bush Wars. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane I agree but it seems that people do hunt theese farms...right ??? | |||
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I am not sure. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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As theorectical questions: #1 probably. If it wasn't against the law, I probably wouldn't be looking into who the outfitters/PH's had as business partners. #2 questionable. If it wasn't a legal issue, I'd probably just be checking into the quality of the hunting areas, which might be an indirect way of finding out if it was invaded. If I found out beforehand it was seized property I wouldn't go there, but honestly I probably wouldn't look to hard into it beforehand. Remember, I said I was just answering this as a theoretical question, with the basic supposition that if it wasn't illegal, I'd just not be doing as much homework into it, and would be doing those unknowingly. Caleb | |||
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My view is, that if you hunt on confiscated land, you are basically supporting it. So , no way! If you are going there to hunt the president, well... Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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I would not hunt in Zimbabwe with this regime in place full stop. I was offered the chance to hunt there free with a friend who was on the point of booking a hunt two years ago and turned it down. | |||
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I would like to thank A. Dahlgren for posting this, It has been very informative. | |||
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