I would be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that the group that got the TSA export registration requirement reversed was the NRA. Just speculation on my part, but I would bet some serious money I am right. When they get involved, even if they do not win, people listen.

The sheer size of the NRA dwarfs all Others combined.

Im not from the US and so the NRA is not anything that helps me personally, but I question how far they can go in the defending hunters and conservation efforts outside of the continental US. Unless they are going to totally remake their image and start to tackle issues with wolf hunts south of the 49th, help to fund caribou studies in Newfoundland and fund jaguar studies in South American countries....... just how far do you think they are going to get?

Also, no one on here can seem to grasp that the average American hunter who deer hunts for whitetail or pronghorn and mulies, hogs, but views a trip to Idaho for elk as a bucket list item is going to give a shit about a bunch of pampered rich guys who travel to Africa. Guys who spend as much on a Tanzania hunt every year as their gross income for 5 years.

More of them are in the NRA than the fraction of one percenters who routinely hunt elephant and lion or polar bear. You guys are actually so far out of their everyday life style that you are not going to get that backing you seek. Therefore I question if the NRA could go to bat for more than hunting issues in the US....... beyond that I do not see it. It would require way to much of a change of course and changing the mindset of most of the membership.

In the end well to do hunters who trot around the globe shooting game seem to really have a disconnect with real life. They just don't seem to grasp that the average hunter who shoots a few ducks and kills a couple of deer has trouble grasping or caring about the finer points of keeping the safari industry alive in Tanzania or Mozambique.

I doubt they are going to support the NRA taking on significant new challenges that mean absolutely NOTHING to them.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I would be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that the group that got the TSA export registration requirement reversed was the NRA. Just speculation on my part, but I would bet some serious money I am right. When they get involved, even if they do not win, people listen.

I have no doubt you are right.

Skylines post is exactly what I mean about a lack of common ground amongst hunters, and he's right. The guy that shoots for fox control, the odd deer and some ducks/pigeons won't give the african hunting community any support because he has no dog in the fight.

I also agree with the comments about the political support required but don't forget today's growing feeling amongst voters being disenfranchised with their politicians. I do think educating the grass roots to some real facts and stories is the start.

When the whole Girraffe thing kicked off last month the uninformed population was spouting off about how the Girraffe cost $10k to shoot and that they were endangered etc etc.

You know what they say.... "If it's on facebook it must be true" and the antis are creating their own truth.

A digitally based, factual stream of information about the true scientific benefits is relatively cheap to set up and promote. The beauty of digital is that you can target specific demographics and know what your outcome will be in advance.

I believe if this was implemented correctly in a way where people could read factual based information it might stem the flow a little at least to start off with.

K

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
While you guys complain - young hunters like Eva Shockey are actually fighting the battle on social media (and elsewhere - see below). Not trying to convert anti-hunters either, just inform the voting public.

Eva Shock - Fox & Friends

I am sure Eva Shockley has the anti-hunting establishment shaking in their boots. With all due respect to Eva, I will take the NRA over Eva.

Mike - I am not getting through to you... you can have Eva, you can have the NRA - hell you can even have the best of SCI.... you can have it all!!! You don't need to forsake one for the other with social media!!!!

Build it and they will come...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Politicians are using the social media more and more, and sadly, 99% of those on the media are as ignorant of the facts of hunting as a rock!

As if that was not enough, they use every opportunity to criticize anything to do with hunting, because it is in vogue right now.

Yes they are Saeed... unfortunately they prefer Twitter - which suits their purposes (media snippets) but not ours (disseminating real information). They still follow Facebook though, for the time being... and it is there that we need to plunder!!!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The sheer size of the NRA dwarfs all Others combined.

More power to them Larry; they are a fantastic organisation and we can help them too... We are very privileged to have them batting for us!!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Show me a picture of her with a dead elephant, lion or rhino.

All her hunting stuff is framed in meat consumption and hunting as natural source of protein.

Very little politically incorrect hunting of big five. She gets in a lot of pr trouble with killing a bear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...t-bears-and-critics/

All bear meat was donated to guides and their family.

I don't think you will see her on a Australian feral buffalo hunt.

Mike

Eva killed her first dangerous game animal, with me, just two years ago. It wouldnt surprise me at all if her dad has told her she isnt ready to hunt an elephant yet. This a serious hunting family...

why would you run her down?

Thats me on the left...

I do not buy the notion that the "ordinary" hunter will never embrace the idea that protecting the right of the "safari" hunter to hunt elephant and lion is important to protecting their right to hunt deer and ducks. Folks that ascribe to that view give their fellow hunters too little credit. Again, the example of firearms is a great case in point. There are many shooters that could care less about owning and shooting assault rifles . . . they enjoy shooting shotguns, pistols, black powder, etc. But they are savvy enough to understand that once the camel's nose is under the tent the prerogatives they find important will be threatened too. Even though the battles fought by the NRA have largely been over semi-automatic assault rifles, there are tens of thousands of NRA members that have never owned and have no desire to own an assault rifle. It is a simple problem of education and awareness. And just like gun owners, hunters and sportsman are smart enough to understand that today it may be elephant and lion . . . five years from now it will be mountain lion and black bears . . . tens years from now it will be deer and antelope. You sell your brethren too short.

Mike,

Thanks for writing that, you just saved me the time to do it.

I have said that lions and elephants are being used by anti-hunters in the same manner as the anti-gun groups use the "assault rifles". The NRA did a great job of identifying the enemy, rallying the members, increasing membership, and going on the offensive.

It is my hope SCI does the same thing and if not the NRA will step in for the hunters.

Mountain Lions, bear, wolves, end all trapping, then the majestic sheep, and on and on until there is nothing left to hunt.

Wait until a domestic carrier will not transport trophies. What do you mean I cannot bring my bear from Alaska or my elk from New Mexico to Maryland, or even a duck from Canada? Wait, it is coming.

I have just posted an interesting article I found regarding SCI and the organization H.O.P.E.

I totally agree with the two Mikes - we have to understand the long run problem. Hunting may no be possible in some years concerning not only the elephant trophy hunter.


Morten

Mike and Mike:

I agree with what you say. 100%

From the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

quote:

As an online petition asking Delta Air Lines to stop transporting exotic animal hunting trophies gathered more than 58,000 online signatures, the carrier responded that it complies with U.S. and international restrictions.

Atlanta-based Delta issued a statement saying it “accepts hunting trophies in accordance with all U.S. domestic and international regulations, which prohibits the possession of trophies or other items associated with protected species.” The airline said customers must provide documentation of trophies to U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials during inspections of their trophies.

Chris Green says in his petition on Change.org that he is a Diamond Medallion frequent flier on Delta and chair of the American Bar Association’s animal law committee, and that he started the petition after South African Airways announced a policy refusing to transport exotic animal hunting trophies, while Delta is the only U.S. airline to serve South Africa directly.

http://www.ajc.com/news/busine...ial_twitter_2014_sfp

What I wrote above is but one very small victory in a very long war. My thanks to those who worked on this.

Now lets try to address another issue. Since everybody on this site is at least somewhat computer literate, how about emailing both Senators and your Congressman and ask for help as per the following:

"Make certain that U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) maintains its commitment (April 23, 2015) not to enforce its regulation requiring the electronic registration of firearms by hunters who wish to travel abroad with their firearms, at least until CBP improves and/or revises the registration process; Require the U.S. Department of State to withdraw the regulation (22 C.F.R. §123.17(c)) that requires hunters to electronically register their firearms in order to take those firearms out of the country for international hunting; Introduce and adopt legislation that prohibits the U.S. Department of State from using regulations to create a de facto firearms registry of hunters who travel internationally."

This is a challenge to every American citizen on the forum to do this.

.....and where did the original posted link get a picture of Jabba the Hut with a dead lion????[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
While you guys complain - young hunters like Eva Shockey are actually fighting the battle on social media (and elsewhere - see below). Not trying to convert anti-hunters either, just inform the voting public.

Eva Shock - Fox & Friends

I am sure Eva Shockley has the anti-hunting establishment shaking in their boots. With all due respect to Eva, I will take the NRA over Eva.

I prefer to have them both!

We need all the advocates we can get!

.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I do not buy the notion that the "ordinary" hunter will never embrace the idea that protecting the right of the "safari" hunter to hunt elephant and lion is important to protecting their right to hunt deer and ducks. Folks that ascribe to that view give their fellow hunters too little credit. Again, the example of firearms is a great case in point. There are many shooters that could care less about owning and shooting assault rifles . . . they enjoy shooting shotguns, pistols, black powder, etc. But they are savvy enough to understand that once the camel's nose is under the tent the prerogatives they find important will be threatened too. Even though the battles fought by the NRA have largely been over semi-automatic assault rifles, there are tens of thousands of NRA members that have never owned and have no desire to own an assault rifle. It is a simple problem of education and awareness. And just like gun owners, hunters and sportsman are smart enough to understand that today it may be elephant and lion . . . five years from now it will be mountain lion and black bears . . . tens years from now it will be deer and antelope. You sell your brethren too short.

Absolutely Mike!!

I am proud of SCI's efforts on this one. Great job.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am proud of SCI's efforts on this one. Great job.

+1, they jumped on it and got it sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am proud of SCI's efforts on this one. Great job.

+1, they jumped on it and got it sorted.

+ Two

NRA is the best friend we've got here, SCI , DSC and few others come right after them.
Damn scary theses antis are.
They are like lemmings and in hordes

Milan:

Right you are. This is why I started the other thread.

We need to stop bitching , complaining and fighting with each other. We need a plan and work to accomplish the goals.

Well I hope it all turns out just like you guys want. I hope I am wrong.

I just had four US hunters on hunts and they all either could basically care less about what was going on with hunting in Africa or even more to the down side......... had the every day view of why are we hunting endangered animals. When I talked to them about it three got that glazed over look of I see your lips are flapping but................

We all need to wake up and see where this is going and quit painting a rose picture because we want to see it.

Oh, I got my brothers wife's nephew to kill a deer is not going to solve the problem. I am sorry but I just do not agree with some of you that the every day hunter gives a shit about what is happening globally. They do not. They do not care who is bombing who if it does not affect them and they do not care about what is happening with game management in Ethiopia beyond the latest BBC program with Richard Attenborough.

But ultimately, it WILL affect them. This is just the start.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In my experience it is not about winning some public relations war, it is about being able to mobilize influence on politicians. The reality is that the group that can exert the greatest amount of pressure on the politicians through money, phone calls, letters, emails, meetings, getting voters out at the polls and the like is the group that in most instances is going to come out on top. Groups like the NRA are successful through political muscle in DC and in the state capitals not because of their prowess in public relations. It is raw political power. Social media is a tool to be used to build and mobilize political force, not to convince the public that hunting is good for the animals that are hunted.

Politicians are using the social media more and more, and sadly, 99% of those on the media are as ignorant of the facts of hunting as a rock!

As if that was not enough, they use every opportunity to criticize anything to do with hunting, because it is in vogue right now.

Politicians understand two things, money and votes. The could care less about facts.

I have spent my entire adult life as a lobbyist and I can tell you that Mike has hit the nail on the head.

PR is a long-term battle that we may or may not win via social media, or by some other means. In the meantime, we need the REAL influence that NRA already wields. Like it or not- they are the best there is.

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:

quote:

"As a loyal Diamond Medallion" Delta customer who has logged over 650,000 miles with the company, I can attest that Ecotourism now accounts for a full 12 percent of GDP in some African countries.

(1) Diamond Medallion? Who gives a shit? I have twice that many miles on Delta and I can tell you Delta doesn't care and nobody else does.

(2) Okay maybe ecotourism does account for 12 percent of GDP. But what percentage does hunting account for, how many people does hunting employ, how many people does hunting feed, and how many animals don't get poached because of the presence of outfitters and hunters.

This guy is a feminized, self righteous, libtard moron, and I betcha exactly zero of his 650,000 Delta miles were generated by flights to real Africa.

Actually, they do care about their most frequent flyers. Not to say they don't mind pinching them, but they do listen. Why do you think the Sky Club fees went up? People were bitching about the clubs being too crowded, little kids running rampant, etc. Well, all of that changed in a hurry when they jacked up the price.

They do listen to their customers. Give them some feedback on their website after you log in. I just did.

One more point about eco-tourism that I make to all of my "anti" or "fence sitting" friends, visitors, etc. Tourists want to visit parks, not game refuges. Parks can generate significant amounts of revenue, but hunting is the best hope for preserving large tracts of land where animals live in a natural environment.