Two Desert Lions Shot
Jana-Mari Smith
16 August 2011

From The Namibian



TWO collared desert lions from the Kunene region were killed during trophy hunts recently.

One of the lions, a male adult, nicknamed "Lez", was killed during a trophy hunt this past weekend. A female, who was affectionally known to predator researchers as the "grandmother" of the Agab pride, was killed during a trophy hunt in June already. However, the lioness had been reported missing for several weeks before her fate was clarified this past week.

Both of the lions belonged to the "Agab pride", a pride whose home base is situated in the lower Kunene region within the range of the Palmwag concession and alongside the Uniab river. The lions formed part of the desert lion research project led by Dr Philip Stander.

According to Stander, who had collared both lions, Lez and the "grandmother" were shot during trophy hunts. Their killings, according to Stander, have highlighted that it is "very difficult to get the point across that the hunting and killing of lions, especially of adult males, is not sustainable".

According to Stander, the killing of lions will remain on the top of agendas in a "climate where human wildlife conflict is present, where financial benefits from wildlife to local communities is key to successful conservation and where trophy hunting returns large sums of money".

Stander said the absence of XPL - 18, the Agab "grandmother" was first noted in mid-June, at which time Stander posted on his website, desertlion.info that "there is now reason to believe that she may have been shot for trophy hunting".

XPL-18 was "the last known survivor of the original "founding" lionesses of the desert lions and was 15 and a half years old.

In a research paper published by Stander in May 2010, he warned that the "selective and unsustainable shooting and trophy hunting of male lions is detrimental to the social structure and long-term viability of the desert lion population".

He said that although the lion population in the Kunene Region stands at more than 100 today, research shows a worrying trend - an imbalance of males versus females.

In May 2010, when the report was published, Dr Stander pointed out that six of nine major prides in the Kunene Region were "without a pride male".


He said the long-term survival of desert lions is in danger as a result of the "excessive killing of adult and sub-adult males".

Stander wrote in his report that there is an urgent need to adapt the management and utilisation strategies related to lions if the long-term conservation of the species in the Kunene is to be secured.

The killing of two more collared lions comes a month after three lionesses - the last remaining pride members of the Hoaruseb pride in the Purros conservancy - were fatally poisoned. To date, investigations launched by the Ministry of Environment and Tourism have not revealed the exact cause of death nor linked any perpetrators to the killings.

He specifically says they were killed by trophy hunters, is there any proof of this?

And why were the other lionesses poisoned?

I think we had this discussion before about shooting collared lions.

Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

http://www.desertlion.info/news.html


Link to Desert Lions with photos and information.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think we had this discussion before about shooting collared lions.

Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

Why would you not shoot a collared lion, or any other collared animal? Not only would I, but I have! Truth is, we couldn't see the collar until we were standing over top of the lion. We returned the collar to the scientist who had collared the lion, he thanked us for returning it, and asked us about the lion hunt, etc. He was totally fine with it, even though he had collared the lion inside Hwange National Park, he knew full-well the lion was routinely leaving the park. He gave us some pretty cool info about the lion's recent habits, and he said he was not surprised it was shot, as he knew it was a tremendous lion. He told me point blank, that sport hunting was certainly a possible form of mortality for this lion.

Anytime a "scientist" wants to collar a game animal that lives or could live within a legal hunting area, there's a chance that animal could get shot! Fact is, the truly GOOD scientists that I know and have talked too, are all just fine with it as well. To not shoot the animal, simply because its collared, is actually skewing the scientific data from what it would/should really be. If that animal was to die at the hands of hunters, then so be it, that's reality, and any good scientist wants facts, not false data.

Some of the "scientists" are trying there best to collar animals simply to have a reason for them NOT to be shot!

Namibia: Lions And Humans - a Complex Tale

The Africat North foundation is investigating the killing of a lion by a communal farmer of the Khoadi//hoas conservancy on the western border of Etosha.

According to the Director of AfriCat North, Tammy Hoth the communal farmer who allegedly snared the lion and then allegedly clubbed it to death, has been the recipient of support by the AfriCat North livestock protection programme in the past.

The same farmer stands accused of killing a lion cub four months ago in the conservancy. AfriCat North said that the cub was caught in a gin trap and then "clubbed to death". The cub's carcass was then hung in a tree in an attempt to "attract the mother, who killed a donkey" belonging to the communal farmer. A quick response from the AfriCat North Foundation however, prevented the killing of the mother or any other lions in the area, after the farmer received support.

This is the ultimate goal, and message, of the organisation. Pointing fingers and punishing offenders who kill protected wildlife however is not the goal of AfriCat North, the organisation stated.

Furthermore, the killing of predators is more often than not the result of losses experienced by farmers, who live in an environment where their livestock are continuously threatened by predators.

According to AfriCat North, human-wildlife conflict has two victims - namely the predators who are killed and the farmers whose livestock losses threaten their well-being.

The organisation works closely with communal and free-hold farmers along the western, northern and southern boundaries of the Etosha National Park.

According to Hoth, the organisation has established several programmes and initiatives in order to effectively address human-wildlife conflict in the area. She said the organisation's ultimate goal is to provide support to the communities in order to mitigate and prevent losses from predators, which will ultimately reduce the number of lions which are killed. Also, the organisation's programmes aim to address the conflict between predators - lions and the spotted hyaena - and humans in order foster an environment in which the animals can remain in their natural habitat, to prevent exploitation and the inhumane treatment and to ensure that captive populations are well cared for.

Challenges are multiple however. Livestock on the Etosha boundary remain vulnerable because of damaged and porous fences separating farms from the wildlife haven.

Farmers do not "have the time or the inclination nor the means with which to deal with lion conflict .. in order to protect his livelihood [he] will look for what he feels is the easiest and fastest solution to his problem - the use of poison, gin traps and snares and shooting".

Furthermore, Hoth pointed out that there is "no support system in place to assist farmers with such problem animals, nor is there a system in place to protect lions outside of specially protected areas".

Namibia is home to an estimated 1 000 to 1 500 free-ranging lions, Hoth said, although exact numbers are murky. The free ranging predators occur in the Kunene region, Etosha area, and north-eastern parts of the country.

According to Hoth, the Etosha lions contains approximately 350 to 400 adults and sub-adults. Together with an estimated hundred desert lions in the north-western parts of the country, these lions are "a highly valuable population" because of their status as free of feline immuno-deficiency virus (FIV).

"Large numbers of these lions are destroyed annually along the borders of Etosha, as well as on communal farmland to the west, the north west and to the north, when they leave the confines of the park through porous fences and prey on livestock".

One of the programmes of the organisation, the AfriCat Livestock Protection unit, consists of trained personnel who offer advise and support to farmers in the area, specifically on the reparation and maintenance of fences, building of strong kraals and herding of livestock.

This initiative is aimed at arming farmers with effective protection against predator attacks, which in turn decreases the number of lion causalities at the hands of humans.

Furthermore, the organisation launched the AfriCat-Okorusu Communal Carnivore Conservation Programme (CCCP), which together with the livestock programme, assists and supports farmers.

"The CCCP encourages farmers to become self-sufficient in maintaining fences and kraals, in a bid to better protect their livestock". Furthermore, farmers are supported to improve livestock management and sound husbandry.

"As soon as the farmer's losses are reduced, so should his tolerance for the wilderness and wildlife increase", Hoth said.

She noted that it should be recognised however that attitude changes do not take place "overnight", especially in circumstances "where there is no financial incentive".

One of the solutions is to focus on "photographic tourism" which, she said, could contribute towards "a long-term protection of wildlife".

Not seeing the collar and shooting it is fine.

But, if I was hunting and actually see an animal with a collar, I personally would not shoot it.

That is my own choice. If you wish to do otherwise is your choice of course.

Namibia: No Leads in Hoaruseb Lion Investigation

NEARLY a month after the killing of three lions in the Hoaruseb river bed in the Kunene region, the cause of death remains unknown and no persons are linked to the poisonings.

On July 10, Dr Philip Stander, who had been tracking the Hoaruseb pride for close to a decade, broke the news on his website. "The Desert lions suffered a big blow when the entire Hoaruseb Pride was poisoned the three lionesses (Xpl-37 "Morada", Xpl-38 "Tawny" and Xpl-61 "Maya") died a few metres from each other in the Hoaruseb River". Stander's wrote that the event marked "end of the famous Hoaruseb lions, which led to a widespread outcry condemning the poisonings.

Dr Kalumbi Shangula, Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Environment and Tourism (MET) confirmed yesterday that the investigation is ongoing. He said that to date it is unknown who spearheaded the killing.

Leon Kasupi, a project manager in the Purros conservancy, said yesterday that it has been confirmed three lionesses were involved in the killing of a head of cattle shortly before their deaths. He could not confirm whether the killing of the livestock was linked to the killing of the lions.

Kasupi said the community condemns the way in which the lions were killed - if poison was indeed the cause of their deaths. He said that after many years living in close proximity to the lions, the community knew that there are "channels of command" that have to be followed, if a lion did cause damage to the people or their livestock.

He said the good news is that lions and lion spoor have been found in the areas close to Purros and "in the weeks to come, we might have other lions". He said the community, especially the younger generation who are used to living with lions, would "welcome the lions" back into the community.

I love how the anti's use words like "mother" "father/daddy" and the big one..."baby." What ever happened to cub, lioness, lion, stallion, mare, bull, cow, calf. Oh I forgot, we must learn to equate animals to humans. They have the same rights as man. Maybe we can leave religious material for them to read so they can build a church???

I agree with Saeed. If you did see the colar, I would expect that you not shoot the lion. Why? Because you'd realize that shooting it would affect the study and conservation of lions and that collaring a lion is actually pretty expensive when you look at total costs (including costs related to wildlife management/conservation data).

There seem to be so few truly huntable lions left that at this rate, they'll go the way of the Tiger in the next decade or so!

Human encroachment, human-lion conflict, feline aids, poaching (including the take of sub-optimal sized lions), even hunters (yes, if you shoot a large male WITH a pride- you are going to kill the offspring when a new make enters!), that if we hunters do not hold ourselves to higher standards, there will be no more lions to hunt.

Animal rights cultists know that many hunters are loathe to shoot collared animals, so they are slapping collars on any animal they get their hands on.

There is no real scientific study going on, instead it is a giant ploy to scam donations and support their lavish lifestyle.

However, in this particular instance I don't think that was the case. Small groups of rare lions like this should be protected, and the locals should be paid off to help protect them.

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn: Small groups of rare lions like this should be protected, and the locals should be paid off to help protect them.

Alan, are these some "rare" desert lion sub-species that the rest of us are not aware of?

I talked to these guys years ago studying these lions, in fact I had a chance to hunt a lion at the time known as Xpl-15. I chose not to, but your first assessment of these folks is quite accurate.

Hunter54 - I think you need to re-read my first post.

quote:

I think we had this discussion before about shooting collared lions

Yep, thorough conversation here:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/9241068341/p/2

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn: Small groups of rare lions like this should be protected, and the locals should be paid off to help protect them.

Alan, are these some "rare" desert lion sub-species that the rest of us are not aware of?

No, they are just rare to exist in this ecosystem, however since they have been practically wiped out, it is no longer a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn: Small groups of rare lions like this should be protected, and the locals should be paid off to help protect them.

Alan, are these some "rare" desert lion sub-species that the rest of us are not aware of?

No, they are just rare to exist in this ecosystem, however since they have been practically wiped out, it is no longer a problem.

Alan - I was just givin you a hard time

A lot of researchers think that if they put a collar on some animal that they own it.

we have the problem with a bear reseacher in norhtern MN he is rather a nut case who thinks no bears should be hunted.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

I agree. Doing so just fans the fires of the antihunting community. If someone else elects to, that is their choice, but I would prefer not to become the poster child for some antihunting campaign. I am not defending the practice of collaring animals to protect them or condemning those that chose to shoot a collared animal, just expressing a personal opinion.

quote:

Alan - I was just givin you a hard time

No worries. I know where you are coming from. I was just the practicing the droll, but scathing, understatement.

quote:

Anytime a "scientist" wants to collar a game animal that lives or could live within a legal hunting area, there's a chance that animal could get shot! Fact is, the truly GOOD scientists that I know and have talked too, are all just fine with it as well. To not shoot the animal, simply because its collared, is actually skewing the scientific data from what it would/should really be. If that animal was to die at the hands of hunters, then so be it, that's reality, and any good scientist wants facts, not false data.

This is 100% correct.

Mortality from hunting is only one of the many possible ends. If a lion that would have been shot is not shot because it is wearing a collar, the collar is having an effect on the "study" which it should not. The collar should not change anything. If the researchers in question do not understand this I would strongly question their motives and their "research."

Of course whenever I hear about a collared animal I want to know what the study is. What are the questions they want answers to...Is it a movement study, a mortality study, or another bs behavioral study so a grad student can play in Africa and record volumes of nonsense.

Yes it costs money to capture and collar the lions but who is paying for it and why are they doing it? If the researchers feel the death of a collared lion will have a negative effect on the research they had better convince some PH's that the "study" they are doing is valuable.

If people are collaring animals to try and protect them, seems the very best thing to do is shoot all the collared animals.

Gentlemen,

We keep talking about how the antis are having so much success with the media.

Shooting, on purpose, a collared animal is only going to give them more fuel.

And this is the sort of thing that CAN turn those who are u7ndecided who to support against us.

And that is what we really do not want to see.

It is anti-hunting propaganda his that really angers me. Both hunts took place with a legal TROPHY hunting permit, both hunts where done according to all laws, regulations and rules pertaining to the trophy hunting of lion/ leopard/ cheetah in Namibia.
The scientist and his buddies are looking for more bleeding heart donations, and he is in my opinion, a XXXXXXXXXXXX (censored due to this being a public domain), allegedly going around drugging lions as far as he can in the whole Kunene region (drugging the bait apparently), and putting collars on as many lions as possible, so he can cry when one wanders into a hunting block, and is shot.
He claims that there is just over 100 lions in the region, that most prides have no breeding male, and that the shooting of this particular lion is so very detrimental to the overall growth of “his” lions.
I will call his bullshit, the facts are as follows:
The male shot was one of 3 males in a pride, and not the dominant male (who, by the way was not collared according to trail camera photos.)
Most all females seen during the 2 hunts (first lion took 17 days, male took 10 days to shoot), where pregnant.
Close to 30% of his stated number of lions where seen/ photographed during these 2 hunts.
If I had a choice, I would have had client shoot the male without the collar, but circumstances dictated which one was shot.
If you haven’t guessed it yet, I was the PH on the male hunt, and I stand by my decision to let the client shoot the specific lion, as it was less than 15 yards from us, while we stalked into the blind early morning.
What gets me though, is all the armchair critics in Windhoek, most without even one lion under their belt that, without knowing the facts, also now jumps up and down.
Is it not time, that we stop criticizing each other (legitimate competition) in this industry, and get of your ass and work for a change to make the industry a better place....?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

We keep talking about how the antis are having so much success with the media.

Shooting, on purpose, a collared animal is only going to give them more fuel.

And this is the sort of thing that CAN turn those who are u7ndecided who to support against us.

And that is what we really do not want to see.

Saeed - Ok, so let me get this straight! You have no real problem with the shooting of 2-4 yr old lions, as it was "legal", and who is one to tell another about what they should shoot, as long as it was legal? In short, that's how you put it in many of your previous posts about the lion issues, that I and others raised. But now you want to tell guys they shouldn't shoot a legal, MATURE lion, simply because its collared, and because the antis might get upset? Where's the consistency there??

The antis are NOT the ones to be concerned with, they're already ANTI HUNTING, period! For example, E-mail Dr. Paula White - Zambian Lion Project, and ask her about her opinion on shooting mature, legal, collared male lions, withing a hunting block. She's 100% in favor of it, as that's part of the lion's potential/natural life-cycle. Man, talk about letting the anti's dictate the rules?

Karl - I'm with you 100% on this one! Most importantly, if the lion was a MATURE (5 yr old plus) male, and hunted legally, I say good for you and your client! I too have followed these goof balls who are "studying the Desert Lions of Namibia", for about 5 yrs now. I have contacted them, got info from them, etc, etc. There motives are exactly as you describe, ANTI-HUNTING all the way, and looking for bleeding-heart sympathy, for the sole purpose of MAKING MONEY! If you have a legal permit, and the lion is a mature male, collar or no collar, shoot it if you wish!!!

Saeed's first post says he doesn't have a problem with someone else shooting a collard lion and while it is illogical it is none the less true that shooting a collard lion does indeed give the antis more fuel than an un-collard. The 2-4 year old issue is different. For what it is worth I also wouldn't shoot a collard lion or a 2-4 and have less a problem with someone else shooting a collard lion than a 2-4. In former case it really has nothing to do with the "right thing" whereas in the latter it does.

quote:

The antis are NOT the ones to be concerned with, they're already ANTI HUNTING, period! For example, E-mail Dr. Paula White - Zambian Lion Project, and ask her about her opinion on shooting mature, legal, collared male lions, withing a hunting block. She's 100% in favor of it, as that's part of the lion's potential/natural life-cycle. Man, talk about letting the anti's dictate the rules?

One of the major problems here on AR is the fact that many equate scientists (real scientists) with Anti-Hunting. In reality...nothing could be further from the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by DawnRoar:
Saeed's first post says he doesn't have a problem with someone else shooting a collard lion and while it is illogical it is none the less true that shooting a collard lion does indeed give the antis more fuel than an un-collard. The 2-4 year old issue is different. For what it is worth I also wouldn't shoot a collard lion or a 2-4 and have less a problem with someone else shooting a collard lion than a 2-4. In former case it really has nothing to do with the "right thing" whereas in the latter it does.

Dawn & Saeed - Don't get me wrong, I understand its a personal choice on the collar issue. I for one was NOT happy to see the collar on the big lion I shot in 2002 either. Fact was, you could not see it, and once I did see it, I freaked out and took it off immediately.

But, some of these anti-hunting scientists are using this "collar" issue to try and STOP legal hunting from happening.

Dr. White for example, rarely collars a big mature male. She does NOT want to discourage its harvest by a sport hunter, if that was to be its ultimate fate. She collars females, and young males, and if the male matures to the point of ethical harvest, and is collared, then so be it. That's DATA, and any real scientist wants factual data, not false data, dictated by actions that have been altered because of their own doing.

quote:

That's DATA, and any real scientist wants factual data, not false data, dictated by actions that have been altered because of their own doing.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

I agree. Doing so just fans the fires of the antihunting community. If someone else elects to, that is their choice, but I would prefer not to become the poster child for some antihunting campaign. I am not defending the practice of collaring animals to protect them or condemning those that chose to shoot a collared animal, just expressing a personal opinion.

Mike - Same question as I asked Saeed. Shooting 2-4 yr old lions throughout Africa is partly what has started the whole push by the antis to up-list the lion to CITES 1, and add it to the Endangered Species list in the first place. But yet, when several of us here on AR really started trying to crack down on it, we were scolded severely by some??

So you guys are of the opinion that, one likely shouldn't want to or practice the shooting of legal, collared/MATURE lions, because of the anti-hunting back-lash. But, feel free to whack away on the 2-4 yr olds, cause its legal and who are we to tell others that they shouldn't be doing that?

Boys, you guys are really confusing me now????

quote:

Boys, you guys are really confusing me now????

You know the real problem with shooting a lion that has a collar isn't so much the disturbing the research bit but rather that your mighty trophy has already been bested by another... and that other marked it and set it loose.

It changes it just a little.

Like I said before + shooting collared lions on purpose is not fair chase; those lions have been and are under observation and potentially are more used to humans- either way, great way to imflame the antis against us.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
I agree with Saeed. If you did see the colar, I would expect that you not shoot the lion. Why? Because you'd realize that shooting it would affect the study and conservation of lions and that collaring a lion is actually pretty expensive when you look at total costs (including costs related to wildlife management/conservation data).

There seem to be so few truly huntable lions left that at this rate, they'll go the way of the Tiger in the next decade or so!

Human encroachment, human-lion conflict, feline aids, poaching (including the take of sub-optimal sized lions), even hunters (yes, if you shoot a large male WITH a pride- you are going to kill the offspring when a new make enters!), that if we hunters do not hold ourselves to higher standards, there will be no more lions to hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

I agree. Doing so just fans the fires of the antihunting community. If someone else elects to, that is their choice, but I would prefer not to become the poster child for some antihunting campaign. I am not defending the practice of collaring animals to protect them or condemning those that chose to shoot a collared animal, just expressing a personal opinion.

Mike - Same question as I asked Saeed. Shooting 2-4 yr old lions throughout Africa is partly what has started the whole push by the antis to up-list the lion to CITES 1, and add it to the Endangered Species list in the first place. But yet, when several of us here on AR really started trying to crack down on it, we were scolded severely by some??

So you guys are of the opinion that, one likely shouldn't want to or practice the shooting of legal, collared/MATURE lions, because of the anti-hunting back-lash. But, feel free to whack away on the 2-4 yr olds, cause its legal and who are we to tell others that they shouldn't be doing that?

Boys, you guys are really confusing me now????

No need to be confused. From my perspective, I would not shoot a collared lion or shoot a young lion. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. My objection to the earlier posts was the fact that some chose to stand in judgment of others and cast a cloud over their realization of their dream. It is not for me to pass judgment on them or rain on their parade, they paid their money and made their choice just as I can chose to make a choice. I think sometimes an objection to the manner in which the message is delivered is misinterpreted as being an objection to the message.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Personally, I would not fire at a lion, or any other animals, that is collared.

I agree. Doing so just fans the fires of the antihunting community. If someone else elects to, that is their choice, but I would prefer not to become the poster child for some antihunting campaign. I am not defending the practice of collaring animals to protect them or condemning those that chose to shoot a collared animal, just expressing a personal opinion.

Mike - Same question as I asked Saeed. Shooting 2-4 yr old lions throughout Africa is partly what has started the whole push by the antis to up-list the lion to CITES 1, and add it to the Endangered Species list in the first place. But yet, when several of us here on AR really started trying to crack down on it, we were scolded severely by some??

So you guys are of the opinion that, one likely shouldn't want to or practice the shooting of legal, collared/MATURE lions, because of the anti-hunting back-lash. But, feel free to whack away on the 2-4 yr olds, cause its legal and who are we to tell others that they shouldn't be doing that?

Boys, you guys are really confusing me now????

No need to be confused. From my perspective, I would not shoot a collared lion or shoot a young lion. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. My objection to the earlier posts was the fact that some chose to stand in judgment of others and cast a cloud over their realization of their dream. It is not for me to pass judgment on them or rain on their parade, they paid their money and made their choice just as I can chose to make a choice. I think sometimes an objection to the manner in which the message is delivered is misinterpreted as being an objection to the message.

Mike - Yes sir, I do understand all of that. And I certainly don't mean to insinuate that you were degrading the guys for shooting a collared lion, I know you were simply stating your personal opinion on what you would do, not passing judgment. I totally understand your point.

Folks, below are a couple pictures of the lion shot by Karl (his client). As you can see by the first pic, his face is quite scarred, even old & grey looking. The 2nd pic shows a very nice, mature looking lion that I'm certain is over 5 yrs old.

Congrats to Karl and his client!

Is it far more acceptable for collared Lions to die at the hands of the blacks traps and poison?

Then who can you blame? Not the poor locals ... oh heavens no. Must have someone wealthy to blame.

Ah, what a pity, a dead poisoned Lion and nobody to blame. Move along ... no story to publish here. No wealthy individuals involved here.

Damn media.