Define "boat load"...

Las Vegas:
Manadlay has 1,000,000 sq ft
Sands has 2,250,000

Reno 381,000 sq ft

Nashville only has 350,000 sq ft at last check

Indianapolis 561, 000

New Orleans 1,100,000

Of the "New Designees" only NO will have close to the Vegas size space--
The others will be a Reno like size--
Hmmmm

Indy in Jan/Feb Hmmm

"Boat Load" - Non-employee Lobbying 205k, Legal 618k. I don't know now much of the 3M of payroll (non-officer) is for attorney employees.

Is it cargo ship size, no. The only groups that big are: the NRA and DU. And I don't see DU spending money on big game hunting and the NRA is too busy Spending money so that I can continue to own my AR-15 and 30 round magazines.

Wouldn’t having a lot more members would mean more political power they have?

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs.

I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets...

SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves.

There is a report that shows where the money goes worldwide.

One has to remember that a massive portion of what SCI does is governmental affairs. This is of monumental importance. It is also costly.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs.

I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets...

SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves.

They could put all the money in the world into Africa and it would not matter. USFWS is what matters. They spend a boat load on money suing them and several states so you can bring your stuff back to the USA and have the privilege to hunt. That is the only reason that I am a member. If DSC ever gets big enough to have a full time litigation and lobbying office, then and only then would it be bye-bye to SCI, as I much prefer DSC.

Bingo not to mention courts and congress.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
There are wealthy people that hunt, and then there are hunters who happen to be wealthy. Most fall into the first category, which is what SCI caters to. the "my schittt is ice cream and there's not enough spoons to go around" crowd.

On the New Orleans schitttthole thing.....it does have fantastic food, but get a block to two off of Bourbon St and see what happens. Better be packin'.

I believe Louisiana has reciprocity with Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs.

I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets...

SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves.

There is a report that shows where the money goes worldwide.

One has to remember that a massive portion of what SCI does is governmental affairs. This is of monumental importance. It is also costly.

There's no excuse for 30+% of the entire budget going to paying those egomaniacs on staff at SCI. It's a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
T
On the New Orleans schitttthole thing.....it does have fantastic food, but get a block to two off of Bourbon St and see what happens. Better be packin'.

The last time I was in New Orleans was about 10 years ago. We were having dinner at the very nice restaurant right next to the St. Louis Cathedral. I forget the name of the restaurant but if you're facing the church, it's the one directly to the left.

Anyway, just about the time desert is served, we hear what appears to be a firecracker. As we look out, we see a man standing over a woman as he pumps 3 more rounds into her head from about 2 feet away. A murder, witnessed by a couple of hundred people, right there on the steps of the church.

Count me out of New Orleans. What a shithole.

Will go to NO if the show is there--

Would much prefer NOT to go to NO at all

Mixed feelings about Nashville and INDY

NO has fantastic food. No doubt. But the crime is crazy.

Were we in Vegas at a concert. I got a text from one of my stepdaughters who happened to be in NO for a function. She was looking for her mom. Then it hit me what time it was. I inquired if everything was okay.

She had been robbed by two male minorities at knife point in the ladies room of a fairly nice restaurant. Her wallet was found in Baton Rouge the next week.

Dear Laird,

We have been exhibitors since 1983 I believe. I do agree that the SCI convention needs a radical U-turn. I assume you did in-depth studies on the demographics of the local markets and surveys with fly-in attendees as to where they would prefer to go? Maybe you could share some of this? Agreed that nothing is ideal but LV does have a few good points; (a) excellent air travel even direct from EU (b) very reasonable room rates for attendees if you are willing to stay a little distance away from the convention itself and (c) good dining in the evenings.

I do have one observation; I have been thinking for more than half a dozen years now the big-game hunting industry is not big enough to support two major shows (SCI and DSC) and a reckoning would eventually have to come. SCI cannot help this and neither can DSC. I suppose in the end the best one will prevail.

I have volunteered over 10 years on SCI committees and truly appreciate the good work SCI has done in DC. I commend you for trying something different and I hope it works.


Life member SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by Ludo Wurfbain: . . .

I do have one observation; I have been thinking for more than half a dozen years now the big-game hunting industry is not big enough to support two major shows (SCI and DSC) and a reckoning would eventually have to come. SCI cannot help this and neither can DSC. I suppose in the end the best one will prevail.

. . .

Tell that to Houston Safari Club, that is trying to grow theirs.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs.

I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets...

SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves.

There is a report that shows where the money goes worldwide.

One has to remember that a massive portion of what SCI does is governmental affairs. This is of monumental importance. It is also costly.

Yep, it costs a lot to bribe our fine representatives in Congress

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs.

I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets...

SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves.

There is a report that shows where the money goes worldwide.

One has to remember that a massive portion of what SCI does is governmental affairs. This is of monumental importance. It is also costly.

Yep, it costs a lot to bribe our fine representatives in Congress

The reality is that SCI monitors legislation at the Federal, state and local levels. It is a massive task. Further, when certain administrative issues arise, such as animal rights activists attempting to get personal information, SCI has provided assistance to affected individuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Ludo Wurfbain: . . .

I do have one observation; I have been thinking for more than half a dozen years now the big-game hunting industry is not big enough to support two major shows (SCI and DSC) and a reckoning would eventually have to come. SCI cannot help this and neither can DSC. I suppose in the end the best one will prevail.

. . .

Tell that to Houston Safari Club, that is trying to grow theirs.

I think Ludo is on the right track. The demographics for safari hunting are not pretty.

At sci you see a much older crowd. At dsc the buyers are probably very similar to sci. There might be a younger crowd around but they are what I call the “boat show crowd.” People paying $20 to go see cool convention with taxidermy, high end 4 wheel drive trucks, guns, off road rvs and some cools dogs and an eagle. They may buy some gear ect but not too many Tanzania full bag safaris.

Houston is clicky - some outfitters with clients in Houston do well as they get good referrals from the Houston scene.

Sci sells hunts - stretching its members to Reno which sucks relative to Vegas might have had a real impact last year.

Sci will shrink over time. Dsc might become more of just a bigger hunting show with lots of gear vendors ect.

I like both - dsc and sci in Vegas preferably at Mandalay Bay.

I would go to New Orleans and Nashville - probably skip Indiana.

Paying $400 for sci versus $80 for dsc. Accounting for hotels and no rental car and no parking - sci was actually cheaper.

Mike

HSC is a shadow of DSC. I don’t mean that as a knock, but they are still trying. We go and it’s mostly to see existing clients from the area and it makes sense when following DSC. I’ve enjoyed it, but it’s slow.

Biggest mistake they will ever make is leaving Los Vegas, it has more to offer, more money to back up their play, the best weather, the most entertainment..

I recall when the National Finals Rodeo left Oklahoma City and all the whining, the first year in Vegas quadrupled their income and they have been there ever since..Vegas is the hub and moving is a big time mistake, and will only please a few..I like Dallas, but its no Vegas, but my sister lives there so I always went there.

I have talked to 8 of my friends in the last couple of days about the show moving.

I understand we are just a couple of fish in a big pond but none of us will be attending the show once it leaves Nevada.

I know others will but in my case, me and my friends are out. It is not a huge priority and we will pass going elsewhere.

One friend did say he would most likely start going to Dallas instead.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
I have talked to 8 of my friends in the last couple of days about the show moving.

I understand we are just a couple of fish in a big pond but none of us will be attending the show once it leaves Nevada.

I know others will but in my case, me and my friends are out. It is not a huge priority and we will pass going elsewhere.

One friend did say he would most likely start going to Dallas instead.

Yep. Vegas is THE adult playground for the USA. A lot of folks go to the show there for more than just the SCI show itself. Sunny weather, dry climate in the middle of winter (not necessarily warm though), nightlife for those who don't attend the SCI banquets after hours, ease of flights getting there, etc.

My late friend MaximusBrutus here on AR attended a few years ago when he was living in Switzerland. Of course SCI was a draw but he wouldn't have made the trip if it were not for the Vegas venue. He never attended when it was in Reno, just sayin! And he was definitely the type of guy to buy multiple hunts / expensive guns from attending. I can't foresee someone like that attending in Indy ... or for that matter NO or Nashville.

quote:

O

Vegas has gambling and shows, none of which interest me. I know of a number of people who go to DSC since they can drive. Nashville will also offer that option.

To requote many in this thread, location depends on your personal preferences. I am a member several hunting organizations. There is always a bunch of oldtimers who complain how good things used to be. Well if you don't want to help makes things better just go to the corner coffee shop and hang out with all the other old guys who bitch about everything going to hell. As to what type of person each club/organization attracts I will leave class warfare to the Democrats.

Compared to the cost of a hunt anywhere in the world including U.S., SCI tickets for the convention are cheap. If all you want is cheap costs and good hunts at rock bottom prices stay home and troll the internet.

We should support hunting and stop eating our young.

I agree with Ridgetop. The price of the tickets is nothing especially with the new concessions for the wives.

Personally, I wish it was in Vegas. I think I might even prefer Reno to some of the other venues. Guess what? I am going to go anyway. I go to see my friends.

I am sure we will have fun one way or another.

I do have to laugh at he people who complain because now they will have to travel. Guess what? Us easterners have been doing that forever.

Lived in the "Big Easy" in the mid 80's-
Even living in the Garden District
It was tough then--
Much,much worse now.
Will go, very reluctantly.

I don't like Vegas always preferred Dallas, but the facts of life are: Vegas draws the crowds, its where the money is to be made...These other shows will flounder,that Im sure of, wait and see..

I think perhaps SCI is floundering big time to start with and they spend more than they make with salarys and mismanagement, and questionable treatment of clients and would be clientele..I suspect they are moving because they can't afford their past mistakes..and these other cities are cheaper..Just based on my opinion and years on the Safari show circuit. but Im over the hill simi retired and don't care if I ever attend another hunt show other than as a tire kicker, and to see old friends..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Biggest mistake they will ever make is leaving Los Vegas, it has more to offer, more money to back up their play, the best weather, the most entertainment..

I recall when the National Finals Rodeo left Oklahoma City and all the whining, the first year in Vegas quadrupled their income and they have been there ever since..Vegas is the hub and moving is a big time mistake, and will only please a few..I like Dallas, but its no Vegas, but my sister lives there so I always went there.

I still whine about the finals moving from OKC.

I've never been to Las Vegas. Just never had any desire to. Don't gamble. Don't pay for sex (at least not with strangers). Not a fan of bright lights and crowds. Don't figure I ever will see Vegas.

I go to DSC every other year or so just because it's a two hour drive away. It's a nice day trip. One day is enough.

As you might have surmised I am not a convention guy, but I send people that work for me to a lot of them. Orlando seems to be the place I send them the most. Atlanta and Dallas are also popular. Las Vegas comes around every other year or so. Indianapolis, Boston, New Orleans, and Nashville are also semi regular locations. Those eight cities seem to be the competitors in the convention business. So, SCI's choices are in line with where other industries move their conventions around to.

Never been to a SCI convention and probably never will. I was a member once and got the magazine for a couple of years. Not my cup of tea, but I wish them the best as I realize in a very very broad sense what they do does represent me.

The 2021 location remains unchanged on their web site.

I’ve enjoyed SCI whether it’s been in Vegas or Reno. Truth me told, I thought it was better laid out and more organized at Reno last year than at the Vegas convention center the year before. The best (but also most expensive) was Mandalay Bay.

I don’t have the history of attendance that some do here. I think my first was in 09 or something, and I have missed some due to hunting.

I don’t have an issue with moving it around like the NRA does theirs. It may help recruit regional attendance by doing so...I dunno... but it probably will make little impact on the buyers attending it, and could adversely affect a chapter that is located where the international one is held for that year.

I guess time will tell.

To me, Vegas is slick and glitzy, but I’m not really a big one into nightlife, so personally, I don’t think it’s going to change my experience when it moves out of Nevada away from casino operations.

You are right sir. Time will tell.

I think we have to give SCI some credit. Several years ago, actions like this were impossible.

We just did the RENO AIR RACES and really enjoyed the friendly people and the tremendous building that has gone on since SCI has last been there. We had a great time!! PEPPERMILL.

Well, I am glad I am getting old and will only attend occasionally in the future...we have traveled all of our professional careers...and have had enough....Nevada feels like home and where Safari Club should be??

Not sure that SCI Exhibitors are looking for the "local deer/elk hunters, n varmint shooters"...nice to have a crowd, the not the crowd to sell high end safaris....I remember the days when SCI opened the doors to local Reno and Vegas folks on Saturday....it was a crowded disaster of tire kickers...and WOW folks...that did NOT fly for high paying attendees or Exhibitors...

I think the best thing SCI could do is to implement a strong vetting program for Exhibitors to keep out the "bad players" that has plagued the Conventions for years....members are cheated into thinking- if they are at SCI they are OK to Book....BAD, BAD, BAD!!

Cheers,