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one of us |
My thoughts exactly. If anyone thinks "rank and file deer hunters" are going to pony up the cost to attend SCI when they have regional shows that they can attend for $20 admission, they truly are delusional. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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| One of Us |
I have absolutely no idea why these locations were picked. It occurs to me that for almost 50 years people from the east have been flying west to attend. Perhaps they are trying to get a more central location to make it easier for all to attend. Just an educated guess. I can tell you that going to and from Reno from Orlando basically kills two days . Nashville or NO is about an hour and a half flight one way. I have mixed feeling about the cost of a ticket. Is it expensive? Yes. On the other hand, it is a fundraiser. Are the people who complain about the price of admission going to be the big spenders with the exhibitors? I do not profess to know the answer. | |||
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| Administrator |
The whole idea behind SCI is not fund raising, but blackmail. How would one classify being forced to “donate” hunts so they can be sold in the convention in direct competition you selling your hunts??  | |||
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One of Us |
I would classify it as a form of Advertising. You want a booth to sell hunts at the primary convention that brings people together in one locale who are of the inclination and have the means to buy your hunts, you have to pay to participate. No one is forced to participate in the convention. One of the draws to get those qualified people into that location are the auction hunts. So you donate a hunt as a cost of advertising to get people to the event and hope to sell enough additional hunts to offset that investment and more. The same way you might if you buy air time on TV or Radio or a full page ad in a magazine. Blackmail is a demand for money to prevent incriminating or embarrassing information being disseminated about you. Participation in the SCI convention as an outfitter does not meet that definition by any stretch. Participation in the convention is intended to help an outfitter generate more sales than could be achieved through non participation. The decision to participate or not is a business decision, period. If it isn't worth it, don't participate. If it is worth the expense of the donated hunt, participate. There is no one forcing anyone to participate. It isn't "blackmail" Saeed, no matter how many times you say it is. I don't understand why people dilute their arguments with hyperbole. There are enough legitimate issues with SCI to debate without it. | |||
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| new member |
SCI does great work to promote hunting and conservation. They are working to make the convention better and grow the organization. I worked all kinds of trade shows for various companies over the years in various industries. Exhibitors always bitch the show is too long. It costs too much. Location sucks. The successful exhibitors at any convention focus on business not bitching to the folks in the booth next door. I enjoyed attending the SCI convention all the times I've gone. I've also attended DSC. SCI is a nicer event and as such should cost more. We should support organizations that support hunters. | |||
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| One of Us |
I honestly had no idea what it cost. I just checked. For the entire show, it is something like $75 a day. Give me a break. Given the cost of the hunts, that is nothing . | |||
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One of Us |
I agree, attendance cost is miniscule in comparison of what we pay for one out of state deer license " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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One of Us |
But think about the random person just curious to see what it’s all about? I see them being ok shelling out the $25 to walk in DSC to check around than fee for SCI. In fact, I have some in-laws who don’t hunt, but love to come to DSC and will buy leather goods and stuff. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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One of Us |
Multiply that by 2 to bring a spouse, plus add in required club membership of $125 for both of you. Now your are at $725 just to attend. That will certainly weed out the attendance of any person curious about the show. And God forbid you bring a kid along! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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| One of Us |
They have dropped the cost for a spouse if one signs up for the entire show. My wife has never been a member. | |||
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One of Us |
Good point. That also does not include lodging, transportation, meals, etc. And the required club membership is yearly, unless you are have a life membership ($2K), senior membership($1750), or three year membership($150). Moreover, a spousal life membership is $750.(Go figure-why is it cheaper for spouses-what if they hunt too?) Also, membership is higher if you live outside the US, Canada or Mexico. So, not for the average "deer hunter". I remember back many, many, many years ago, going with my buddy to check out the SCI Convention at the Sands Expo. We walked in thinking that we could enter the Convention and check it out. This was long before we were members. Sadly, we were told 'No Entry'. Later we found out about the costs, including local chapter fees as well. | |||
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| One of Us |
Just looked at the 2019 Convention prices and they were exactly the same price for Members and spouses, including non-member spouses. Only difference was that non-member spouses did not have to pay the yearly membership fee. | |||
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| One of Us |
We just registered today . We did not have to pay a registration fee for my wife. I am told that is a change. My wife had never been a member. The following is copied from the FAQ section of SCI’s website: Do I have to be a member of SCI to attend? The Annual Hunters’ Convention is a members-only show. Spouses and children of members may also attend, and are considered members during the period of the convention. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes, that is correct as my wife has never been a member and has attended with me every year. However, we have had to pay the convention entrance fee for both me and her every year and it has been the same price. If it has changed, then this is the first year for that, as 2019 required that we each pay the registration fee for the number of days that we were attending. I will check it out on the SCI website. | |||
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| One of Us |
It has changed . See the other thread where I raised this question. Again , we registered today and did not have to pay for my wife provided that we were registering for the entire show. | |||
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| One of Us |
Just checked it out and Larry is indeed correct that spouses are free for the 2020 Convention, IF you register before December 10th for all four days. After that, regular prices will apply, and do now for anything less than the full four days. This is a first for SCI. It has never offered that before. Never. Wonder how SCI plans on making up the financial difference-or maybe it wasn't that financially significant before this year's change. | |||
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one of us |
Actually, a pretty nice place for a convention. The Convention center is a short walk from anywhere downtown. You can eat at St. Elmo's Steakhouse rated in the top 10 in quality in the USA (and it is!). No gambling, but I don't do that anyway. This might be one I would attend. | |||
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One of Us |
I look forward to the change of Venue and hope they are successful. Continuing to Vegas and Reno are not increasing the customer base. I wonder what percentage of SCI members attend the conventions? My wife and I were the only ones from our Chapter to attend last year at Reno, and at the most we might get eight to ten members to Las Vegas – in a good year. As a side note, we thought Reno, Tahoe and Silver City more interesting and enjoyable than Vegas I agree because of prices and perceptions: African hunting, rich snobs… that you are not going to draw a few if any regular deer hunters. I do think you will draw a lot of members who have not attended before because of the location and a lot of big game hunters who do not belong to DSC or SCI. New locations would open the exhibitors to an expanded customer base. Only time will tell which locations are the right solution. Jim | |||
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| One of Us |
They are doing what the NRA does. Spreading the convention around the country so that people who normally don't attend will attend. For the common guy always having it in Vegas or Reno makes the SCI seem to be for the elitist. | |||
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| One of Us |
Doing what the NRA does are the exact word that Laird said to me. Reno is kind of a dump. I have a hard time seeing that as being elitist. Vegas? Yes, I can see that. | |||
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| one of us |
All kinds from all walks of life go to Vegas for sporting events or to catch a show.I don't see how going to Vegas is elitist.I would think those who go to Vegas are mostly working class-middle to lower income. | |||
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| One of Us |
SCI remains a joke no matter what they charge, and they still charge too much to attend. New Orleans is a schittthole.......let the buyer beware. | |||
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| One of Us |
They might want to consider Atlanta too. | |||
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One of Us |
Vegas, the place where everyone has their hand out looking for a tip. NOLA, is a close second and may be a hole, but one with good food, lots of bars and strip clubs. No matter where it’s held there are pluses and minuses. Last I checked DSC show is also a fundraiser but charges a fraction of SCI and does not require you to be a member. | |||
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One of Us |
Nawlins is a shithole for sure...but it is a shithole with some of the best food in the world. Good food and drink, a good hotel room, and a building big enough to house the exhibits and guests close to the former two...voila...good convention. BTW...most Africans would rather move around and see more USA real-estate when they are here. They get bored with the exact same thing—year after year. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I talked this afternoon with Cecil Fredi of Gunstock blanks here in Las Vegas. Some of you may know Cecil for the 35K gunstock blanks that he cuts, dries, prepares and sells to gun manufacturers and custom gun makers worldwide. Cecil has been a personal friend of mine for 30 years. He was asked by Jack Atcheson Sr. to help with the FIRST SCI Convention which was held here in Vegas in 1973. I now correct myself, because earlier I had stated that the first convention had a dozen displays. Cecil said that it had a total of THREE. One was a trophy bongo belonging to McElroy. Cecil said that SCI originally was and has always been, a club for the more affluent and not for the regular "deer hunter" type. I thought that you all would like some historical perspective on the SCI Convention. If it is to now appeal to the regular "deer hunter", then a hell of a lot is going to have to be changed to make it more like DSC and the NRA, or the SCI BODs will have their heads and asses handed to them if it continues to bleed financially. As I stated previously, SCI is not DSC or the NRA. Changing it to be like either one will be a gargantuan task, and it may result in many of the more "affluent" leaving. Just my two centavos worth and personal observations. | |||
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| One of Us |
Lane: Funny thing is that DSC is in the same place year after year and they continue to grow!  And the Africans keep on coming back! | |||
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| One of Us |
It is cheaper and they sell hunts to Texans.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
But UEG, I agree with your other post. SCI is a club for the upper crust and...maybe...just maybe...it should stay that way. Problem is...very few “upper crusts” hunt these days. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
There is no upper crust you have been watching too much downtown abbey . it either rich or not in the us. Sci has a richer clientele. Moving to Reno did little to help sci, its vendors or its clients/members. Sci had a agency problem and someone got taken care of moving things to Reno. Sci at Mandalay Bay was perfect. Three or four connected hotels within all price ranges, close to airport, plenty of eating choices and everything was walking. Uber has made dsc much better as hotel choices have been expanded. Mike | |||
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One of Us |
While I do not disagree that changes need to be made (and I believe we are seeing more and more change) why is the automatic assumption that the "regular deer hunter" or "rank and file" is so much different that some "affluent" SCI member? When I refer to the "rank and file" deer hunter, I am not classifying them based on how much money they have - I am referring to their core hunting interests. I know many deer hunters that spend more time and money chasing whitetails throughout North America than I do pursuing African or European game - and they are generally not SCI members. Why? Partly because SCI members like myself have failed to do a good enough job introducing them to the organization and partly because they view SCI as an organization for African hunters - once again, shame on guys like me for not correcting that view. UEG - you are right, SCI is not like DSC or the NRA. I would ask why should it be? Each organization has its strengths and weaknesses, each set their own membership dues and benefits and each defines is own mission. Both DSC and SCI are organizations for hunters and wildlife conservation and regardless of what one hunts or how much money one has, we need to support both... While I have no evidence to back me up, I would be willing to bet the anti-hunting organizations throw all their rocks at us hunters, not each other..... "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree with that observation...just like Democrats vote in lock-step. When (if) we hunters learn to hang-together...the antis won’t (wouldn’t) be able to hang us separately as they do now...while the bulk watch them twist in the wind thinking to themselves—thank the stars it was them and not me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
If you want SCI to expand and grow it has to work on reducing its membership dues and convention costs in order to target the same types of individuals that DSC is able to attract year after year, and many who return every year to its convention. Face the truth: SCI has set its membership dues and convention fees to attract the affluent-plain and simple. The NRA has a dues structure, and I'm very familiar with it as a Benefactor Member, but correct me if I'm wrong, anyone can attend the NRA Convention. And, anyone can attend the DSC Convention. Only members and their spouses (and children under a certain age-for free)can attend the SCI Convention. SCI has a monthly magazine, and more often than not, the front cover is not African, many of its articles are about hunting across the world. In fact, this month's Safari magazine(September/October 2019) arrived just this afternoon, and guess what's on the front cover?-a huge whitetail. And, there is only one (historical at that) article on Africa in the magazine-taken from W.B. Cotton's book: "Sport In The Eastern Sudan". Moving on, I would like to see SCI stay successful-I'm a Life Member after all, and I take my memberships in these organizations seriously, but significant structural changes have to be made to SCI's membership costs, convention attendance costs and other things in order to stay successful, and it's going to have be contrary to SCI's normal agenda. We want to see change-that is why we are having this discussion. But changing locations is not the end all for the growth of SCI.  It's a band aid that will result in further corporate, personal and financial disappointment. I'm leaving for Alaska in the morning, so over and out to all of you for two weeks. Please have all of SCI's problems completely resolved in my absence. | |||
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| One of Us |
I believe all of the SCI problems were fixed by DSC. I may be a homer, but that’s why they cut off from SCI. We still have the North Texas SCI chapter, which I totally support. We also have Park Cities Quail, which was part of Quail Unlimited, but realized the inequality. Now there is Quail Coalition. The NRA has had a lot of bad press lately, but we need them. Just as we need Ovis, RMEF, and all the others. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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| one of us |
It would be interesting to see what percentage of hunters that have hunted in Africa are from Texas.My guess is that more are from Texas than from any other state.It is obvious why holding a convention there would be successful.One convention there is enough however.I don't think many will go to any place else than Vegas unless african hunting was more popular or at its peak like it was a few years back.I doubt that even Vegas will draw a very big attendance today. | |||
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| One of Us |
One step at a time my friend. One step at a time. | |||
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| Administrator |
Sadly, SCI is structured towards making hunting a competition! Nothing less. Look at SAFARI MAGAZINE and how almost everything is turned towards that. They have directed all their attention to non hunting idiots whose sole purpose in life is to get one better than the next idiot. Proper hunting is no longer catered by SCI. They could not care less about the average hunter. | |||
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| One of Us |
There are wealthy people that hunt, and then there are hunters who happen to be wealthy. Most fall into the first category, which is what SCI caters to. the "my schittt is ice cream and there's not enough spoons to go around" crowd. On the New Orleans schitttthole thing.....it does have fantastic food, but get a block to two off of Bourbon St and see what happens. Better be packin'. | |||
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| One of Us |
When SCI actually starts to protect our international hunting rights and actually invests (in a serious manner) into wildlife conservation within Africa I will happily rejoin. Until then, it's just a bumper sticker organization that provides a laughable outlet for egomaniacs. I have asked the same questions since I helped form a chapter in the 1990's - Show me where the foundation money goes, list all the hunting areas in Africa that SCI has helped preserve and list all the wins that SCI has had combating CITES. All I ever get is crickets... SCI is no better than the plethora of self-serving NGO's that only raise money to feed themselves. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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| One of Us |
They could put all the money in the world into Africa and it would not matter. USFWS is what matters. They spend a boat load on money suing them and several states so you can bring your stuff back to the USA and have the privilege to hunt. That is the only reason that I am a member. If DSC ever gets big enough to have a full time litigation and lobbying office, then and only then would it be bye-bye to SCI, as I much prefer DSC. | |||
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