The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting This buff is still a little soft, shoot or let him grow upGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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With apologies to the esteemed Doctor Robertson, (whose opinion I greatly respect), I think that a worn down, worn out old buff is more a trophy for the person who already has taken one that measures well, i.e., a seasoned African hunter. If I am blessed to hunt ol' Cynceros again, that will be what I will have in mind. Regarding the buff in Jerry's post--sometimes it is better to ask forgiveness than permission! Cheers, Tim | |||
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These freakish bulls look like game ranch breeding bulls, maybe having names like Senatla, Tyson, Hercules, etc. | |||
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...sorry friends, my english is not so good... I know the work from the game Scout... But..., from the german perspective (we called this Beamter): This should be his job too!! Maybe some day. :-) Best wishes. Hunter | |||
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Frank: John is doing well, staying busy with his hunting in Zimbabwe.  Sorry, but that second bull is not a game ranch breeding bull by the way, even though some of you might wish that he was.  Doctari: Thanks for your advice!  Saeed: Agreed! My first buffalo was a very old, almost scrum capped bull! He holds a place of honor in the trophy room!  | |||
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Just goes to show that there are crooked game scouts asking for bribes, as well as crooked so called professional hunters who buy captured buffalo and sell them to crooked trophy hunters so they can enter them in the SCI trophy book.  An old worn down bull is the true trophy. He won't score much in the SCI record book, but he sure IS a trophy. I have heard many PHs saying that the SCI method of measurement tends to favor shooting young bulls. | |||
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Doctari is right. This magnificent bull should be given the opportunity to pass on his genes, grow wiser, fight and interact with the herd, and fulfill his destiny for at least several more years. That said, if I saw him I'd drop him like a bad habit. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
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 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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 I am haunted for years by this Buffalo, saw him in the Timbavati years ago and even though the Body and facial features were telling me that he is an Old Bull, his Boss confused me, I passed him up and he has never been seen again, I put him at around 52” | |||
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SCI measuring method of Buffalo, you measure the length from tip to tip and add the with of both bosses, this will favor the buffalo that are in theyre prime breeding age. 6-8 years. The tips are still sharp, not worned down and not yet lowered under the boss. Rowland ward measuring method for buffao. You measure the outside spread and add the sum of the with of the 2 bosses. The with measuring is new from the 29. edition of the book. And to all of you that wants to shoot a soft boss: guess what happens to the boss when it has boiled for a while:P? Jostein | |||
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Hi JK Hunter. The Timbavati bull you saw was not as old as you think he was. I would age him as being in his 9 th year. Buffalo bulls in the KNP area usually become breeders sometime in their 8 th year (by which stage the horn tips have dropped to boss level, the centre of the boss is sufficiently hard to allow for head butting and they have muscled up sufficiently in the neck and shoulder region to fight effectively) and they remain breeding bulls for only about 3 years. By their 11 th year they are usually past it or getting colse to being past it, breeding wise. By this age the boss fully formed with bumps and ridges, sometimes even worn smooth in places from rubbing. The horn tips will have been worn blunt by rubbing as well. Horn rubbing is very much a part of dominant breeding bull behaviour and this is why such bulls often have bark on their boss and horns. The horn tips on your bull are still quite sharp and the boss is not yet fully formed in the lower centre area. This area will solid-up in the next year or so. The white marks on his face are from demodectic mite infections. They contribute to making him look older than he really is. Hope this help - Doctari The bull you photographed has | |||
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Hi Doc Correct, I also put him around 9 to 10 years of age, what you have just explained is the reason we try only to shoot Bulls over 12 years of age, he is truly a monster, it has been 4 years since his last sighting hope he does pop his head in some time regards JK | |||
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would be a shame to remove these bulls from the gene pool before they are older - just my opinion ....if we all shoot the young huge ones soon there wont be any huge genes left .... "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Well said Ivan. As I have repeatedly said, and an old bull with broken horns is definitely more interesting to hunt. | |||
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This sounds like a whitetail hunting thread in South Texas n | |||
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Do you have any photos of a Texas "duggaboy"? | |||
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This is a fantastic buffalo, but he is young. Too many hunters take the wrong approach with respect to taking a trophy like this - granted his spread is awesome, but if he were left to finish his breeding years and spread his genes, then how many more specimens of his ilk would be available to our children to hunt. The condition of his hide and hair on his body is a give away to his youthfulness. I know its tough on a PH and any client, but guys LET HIM BE !! What are the co-ordinates of his location ??????? | |||
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As has been the case for the Kilombero Valley, once famous for its concentrations of and top trophy quality buffalo ! | |||
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I'd shoot it! I know a taxidermist in Texas that can fix those "soft" bosses! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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 Shoot or Not? | |||
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Oh, yes!! | |||
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jk, Now that is beautiful bull! Bang! Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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He is a beauty, this pic was taken 3 years ago, there were 2 huge bulls in this herd. we passed them up as they were still in great nick. if they were in a Bull group they would have both been in the salt, we saw them again in March this year and shot the first one that gave us a gap, he went 47", I believe we did the right thing back then by passing them even though they were hard boss but not Old. Will be looking for the second one in October with Hunters and Guides when they bring 2 clients for trophy Buffalo. | |||
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jk hunter NOW you talking - BANG "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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jk....now those are some beautiful bulls I would love to hunt someday...til then I keep saving up the funds a little here and a little there...would be a dream come true | |||
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JK I need to get the buffalo bug again and come hunting with you! Those last few pics are phenomenal bulls that I would not hesitate to shoot, a few inches still soft, or not.. The only place I have hunted with bulls like that in any abundance is on Thornybush with Ernest Dyason (twice). And as I understand it, those are Kruger bulls on there as well. | |||
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Hi Scottyboy, yes Ernest is a great Guy know him well, the only difference between us and thorny bush is that there reserve is fenced all around and do not have new blood or buffalo entering the reserve, at any one time we have over 3000 buffalo in the reserve and with over 50km of open boundary you never know what's around the next corner, I will PM you tomorrow. | |||
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You can NEVER shoot that young a bull! You will be convicted on AR and sentenced to 1000 member's ignore lists.... Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I think I have this dilemma sorted out. 1. I would tell my ph that I am just going to look at the bull through my scope since my binos were dusty. 2. Then my rifle would have an AD. (Perfect heart shot thanks to Doctari's fine "Perfect Shot" book.) 3. Next, I would holler "OH SHIT". 4. Then I'd go collect my trophy while cussing that durn rifle & swearing not to ever trust it again. Anybody see any problems with this? LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Its very easy for Kevin and other who have hunted and taken many buffalo to say pass up this one. I don't think that is fair. Most of us will never shoot a buffalo and the rest will probably only shoot 1 or 2 due to family and finances. If I were there with rifle in hand I believe I would take the shot. I may never get to hunt buffalo again. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Brain, This is not a criticism and I full understand what you wrote but substitute lion for buffalo in your post and you have one of the reasons lion hunting is in the spotlight today. Conservation is up to us not the antis. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mark I must respectfully disagree. There have never been as many lions as buffalo. Typically there are many times more prey animals than predators. I think this is comparing apples to oranges. I'm not saying we should be shooting youngsters. The original post was, would you shoot the buffalo in the picture. The question was not directed at any young breeder bull, but at a monster breeder bull. BTW, I signed the DSC petition on lion hunting. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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if you look at old hunters photos from lokisale and other massailand areas 50 inch buffalo were not all that rare , i am not saying that they were common ,but certainly a few each year were taken - while they do exist today they make hunters news when one is taken ... also you will see from the trophy photos that many of them were not old bulls but shot because they were "monster" bulls , even if they were bvreeder bulls ....way way way less of that quality there today and thats not because of lions ! i agree its very very tough to pass a bull like that but if we all just shoot the very widest buffalo that we can without any concern for the future then the trophy quality will continue to drop - for those of you in the US what precisely is quality deer management and why would that be any different to quality buffalo management ?? when you hunt an area that has had all the big bulls young and old shot out for the last two decades its a true shame and unfortunately in todays world as indicated in some of the posts above , nobody cares right or wrong , or about the future , just give me the inches baby and give them to me now ! "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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I agree with you Ivan. Many hunters today feel that they will never get another chance at a big buffalo bull like that; that someone else will be selfish enough to shoot it anyway, and so why shouldn't they shoot it first; that their friends who don't hunt won't really know that it is young and immature, and won't care anyway, and they then can, with all impunity, brag about this big assed buffalo bull that they shot that is high up in the record books, etc. etc, etc. They will also most likely come up with some tall tale about how it charged them as well. Sad, but all too true today, and with all of the hunting shows making us believe that you must shoot monsters of every animal hunted to be a real hunter.  It's not really about inches, but about taking a mature, representative buffalo bull or any animal, for that matter. This is my personal and humble opinion. | |||
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This in spades. If ever the anti's need ammo this is the thread for it. After being specifically told that the bull is still a breeding male, posters have still indicated that they would shoot... Shame.  . | |||
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 Pick me for your trophy room............ | |||
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jk, Another great bull. I'd be very happy with him. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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My first buffalo bull hanging in my trophy room looks almost identical to that one. Just a bit shorter on the bull's right horn, so as matching the left. | |||
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Lots of good points. Changing my opinion from shoot to getting nod from my PH. Ivan, Mark, Shakari, Doctari ... You opened my eyes. Thank you. " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I think the scoring system should be modified; after boiling, measure the widest area between the horns. Multiply this by 10 and subtract from the total score. Any soft buffalo would score very low. It would benefit those bulls that have zero gap between their horns after boiling. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting This buff is still a little soft, shoot or let him grow up
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