After reading through NES's website, I have a few thoughts. For one, I value Sullivan's view on how he chooses to hunt. I don't think he is immoral or unethical, just a bit extreme. But I guess every field has its fanatics. Secondly, I respect him for the way he wields such monstous calibers under stressfull conditions. I doubt that I could do it the way he does. Lastly, after looking through the pictures on the site, I have never seen such absolutely fantastic animals diplayed on any other outfitters' site. The size of the animals that come out of his concession are incredible. Does he know something that the rest don't? I am just curious. I have never been to Africa, but hope to make it at least once. Maybe I can get a huge, marvelous, mature, male, fuzzy, magnificent lions.

Mark Sullivan? Never heard of him.

George

(I had to add one more).

I wouldn't shoot stray house cats the way MS does. I don't know how you can "value" that approach to "hunting" animals.

I know Mark very well. He's a very good friend of mine and I've known him and his family for going on ten years or so. I flew to Phoenix to meet him more than a year before I ever hunted with him, which was a very positive experience. I've been positive about Mark ever since.

I hunted with him in 1995 for twenty-one days in Tanzania and together we took a great many exceptional trophies, and I had the time of my life - the best hunting expedition I've ever been on in thirty years of hunting.

I've also hunted with him on various outings during the off-season here in the U.S.; will hunt with him again next week for deer, hogs and stuff in Texas; and I'm booked to hunt with him again next season for a twenty-eight day safari in Tanzania.

Quite honestly, Mark is the very best PH I've ever hunted with, bar-none. He is a highly driven, highly intelligent, and imaginative man who strives to be the very best that he can be in all that he does, sets goals, plans for them, reaches for them, and achieves them. Mark is a very classy guy, an upbeat person, and a joy to hunt with for days on end. Every day is a happy day with Mark, and every hunting day turns out to be a special one. He treats every occasion as if it's the first safari day of the season. He is very selective as to the trophies he lets clients take (that's why you see exceptional animals on his website!), and he has an incredible work ethic and incredible endurance.

I've never seen Mark waste time (mine or his), act as though bewildered, make the wrong set of moves, or mishandle any situation in the bush. I can't say the same for other PHs I've hunted with. He runs a safari crew very efficiently and with great expertise. Make no mistake about it, Mark is indeed a man of great courage, and he is indeed an expert marksman (and FAST) with either a bolt gun or a double. He's no drugstore cowboy by any stretch of the imagination, and he certainly does "walk the walk".

In all candor, can't say anything bad about Mark at all, and if I didn't trust and believe in him as a friend and as a PH, I would invest in an expensive, time-consuming hunt with him, pure and simple. I know several of Mark's long-time clients as well, and most of them have hunted with him again and again, or are planning to. This isn't exactly a stupid group of people, I assure you, and if Mark was the sort of heinous character he gets painted out to be by some of the armchair quarterbacks (who don't know him and haven't hunted with him), you can be certain that these folks wouldn't touch him.

I wouldn't either.

AD

Allen,

I know you are a big fan. Maybe in person it is different but his videos...well, there is just no excuse, IMO.

I think we are being a little hard on Mr. Sullivan for his video antics. The videos are intended to be a performance, and they certainly are. The man has courage and skill and doesn't pull any punches. His hunting ethics (regarding quick dispatch of animals) may not be the same as everyone's here, but he is not doing anything illegal.

He is a showman. He sells books and videos. Just happens that he hunts in them. Sorta reminds me of the TV show "Jack Ass".

Too much testosterone and machismo for me. Just my opinion. But, to each his own.

Also, Mr. Sullivan might want to take a firearms safety course. (see photo) Good way to lose a hand. This is the photo on his web site's home page.

-Bob F.

Here is the real Mark Sullivan of the firearms industry:



He spent 16 years making doubles at H&H and now makes them privately for customers, or subcontracts for the big name houses such as Hartmann & Weiss.

http://www.londongunmakers.com/wouldyou.htm

He only charges US$60K for a best quality 700 H&H compared to the price of $180,000 at Holland & Holland.

[ 11-13-2003, 00:59: Message edited by: 500grains ]

I never hunted with Mark Sullivan, but I did meet him at SCI thanks to a friend of mine who hunted with him. I don't think Allen needs to be a "shill" for Mr. Sullivan. He ( Allen) is a straight up guy with great integrity. You may not agree with him, but he tells it to you straight and I have no reason to doubt his word. All I can say is that in my business, judging a person by the way he acts, talks and generally carries himself is an important component of staying alive. All I can say about Mark ( or Allen for that matter) is that "I'd fly with them downtown" any day. jorge

Obviously he's not for everybody but I'd love to hunt with him as my PH. Who wouldn't? (that's not a rhetorical question)

Allan

Did you get to shoot your Buff? Is his 'participation' as a back up only or automatic if the animal doesn't fall to the shot? Did you sign one of those contracts that gives him the rights to all of the pictures and videos?

I have talked to him a couple of times and he seems like a personable and competent fellow. But on his videos he comes across as a bit full of himself. Which is correct or is it a little of each?

He might be an allright guy, I dont know him personally. All I can say is his videos dont portray him very favourably to me. If it is controversy that sells then he is doing a great job.

By Allen's statement, Sullivan must me far different as a person than what I have seen in his videos. But man, his videos are not what I want to see in a PH. I'm sure he is a great PH to hunt with.....as long as his video personally doesn't come out.

Mickey, I shot all of my own buffalo when I hunted with Mark. He didn't shoot anything for me on our safari. Two of these buffalo I actually shot with a lowly .300 Winchester, and one of these bufflo is in one of the videos.

Mark's an easy guy to hunt with, at least he always has been for me. I don't feel threatened by him, and he's not arrogant at all. He's always treated me great - more like a friend than a client. He's very much a regular guy, and a hard-working hunter who does a whole lot more for you than guide from the comfort of a Landcruiser, as some of these guys are prone to do. He's always thinking, planning the next move, brianstorming, etc., and that's exactly the way I like to hunt. Mark's the kind of guy who's always thinking of solid ways to make things work. He's a positive thinker and a doer, which is true of most of my friends.

Even when you aren't talking hunting, there's never a dull moment. Mark's great to talk fine firearms with, business concepts, etc. You don't run out of things to discuss with him.

The videos don't do justice to the real Sullivan, and only tell part of the story. I'm amazed at the number of folks who think they've got him all figured out by watching those tapes. There's so much more to the man than what you see on film.

Quite honestly, and this is my honest opinion, there are quite of few PHs who are jealous of his success and notoriety, especially since he's an American, and there are a number of booking agents (who don't collect a dime from booking his safaris) who also love to take cheap shots and spread rumors about him. I can't think of how many times I've heard that Sullivan was done-in by a lion, or that some poor client of his got knocked off by a bufflo, etc., etc., etc. All untrue. I detest gossips and jealous troublemakers, and one of these assholes (pardon the French) actually told Mark's wife that he'd been done-in during the safari season. She was unable to verify for some time and lived with the image of his demise for at least a couple of weeks.....

I was at a big gunshow one time, and a book merchant asked me if I'd ever heard of Mark Sullivan before. I told him that I had, and he said, "Well, some lion just had him for lunch!"

I said, "Well that's odd, because I just talked to him a couple of days ago."


AD

[ 11-13-2003, 05:03: Message edited by: allen day ]

allan day,

You are a good man. I appreciate & respect someone who stands up for what, and those, he believes are decent. Especially in the face of contoversy.

I have listened to others who berate him, but your opinion gives me reason to re-think my position.

I think I would hunt with Mark Sullivan, but I don't know if I could afford it. I have spoken to him often at various safari shows, and he seems like a nice guy who I would like to share a camp fire with. He does not come across as well on his videos, and he does put down some of his clients in his book "Death and Double Rifles". Hunting with him would be an experience that would make good conversation with friends.

I have all of Mark Sullivan's videos. If you watch them in the order they were filmed you see a natural progression in his technique. In the cases where he shoots the animal after the approach as it runs toward him the animal probably dies a quicker and less painful death than if the animal was body shot from afar.
Many people seem upset with the fact that many animals are killed in a final charge, stating the danger aspect to the hunter. Lets face it, that is why they call it dangerous game. That is why we hunt dangerous game, climb mountains, jump out of airplanes, etc. Some people just like more danger than others. If you do not loke the heat do not go into the kitchen.
After seeing some of his videos I met him at a couple of Dallas Safari Shows and have had a few conversations with him. I must agree with Allen and I have found him to be a very nice fellow, not full of himself or with a big head.
He does have a certain amount of confidence which is commonplace in people who have faced danger many times, and liked it, and know they will face it again. I work with many people who exhibit this trait and I understand it well. [Four of them were shot today, and when they recover they know they will face danger again].
If you really watch Marks videos you can see the energy and love Mark has for hunting that Allen describes. Mark has as much fun as the hunter. I have hunted with a couple of guides like that and they were the best and most fun to hunt with.
Do not be to quick to judge someone till you know the "rest of the story".
I questioned Mark about his shooting of so many animals in the videos, I even teased him about carrying his bullets in My back pocket. His reply was, when the animal is running our way you will want me to shoot. When I think about the skills of most of the hunters I know that is probably a true statement. Most hunters never face real danger and would not be up to the task. Remember what I said earlier, watch Marks videos in the order they were filmed, see the progression of his technique, you might learn something. If you are faced with a charge situation, and old Mark ain't around you might want to use his method, might just save your life.

Another comment about hunting with MS:

When I was in Tansania I heard that MS is now having an own concession in the Moyowoshi (a part which has been in the part in the concession of Moyowoshi South ( ), but there seems to be very little game (depending on the area, but also due to massive poaching of Ruanda refugees...), so I know one guy who was hunting with him for buffalo this year, but didn't get one (and didn't get at least a chance to shot...)

Is that true?!

Best regards,

Erik

There is no doubt that MS is competent at what he does. His videos are just a marketing gimmick and the well-chosen titles and controversies they raise is proof of that!

My problem with him is purely ethical and professional; His methods when finishing off wounded game is but one aspect of his ethics I don't agree with.

The fact that he takes pleasure in repeatedly putting his clients life in danger by prompting a charge from a wounded DG is not professional and highly questionable. As a Ph the safety of a client is paramount and putting clients in a dangerous situation is not a measure of greatness or competency.

Allen:

quote:

---

....Two of these buffalo I actually shot with a lowly .300 Winchester, and one of these bufflo is in one of the videos.

---

Allen a perfect example of MS illegal activities; The "smallest" caliber allowed by the Game Dpt for hunting buffalo in Tanzania is .375 H&H

happy hunting!

You should know that we never set out to hunt buffalo with a .300 Win. Mag. Nobody was trying to pull off some sort of a stunt that would qualify for the highlight reel. Sullivan is adamant about the use of appropriately big cartridges for the task at hand, and so am I as a client. And let's be honest, I am hardly the first guy to shoot buffalo with something less than a .375.......

Anyhow, that situation developed simply because my .458 Win. Mag. developed a mechanical problem that made the rifle unsafe to use, and it could not be satisfactorily repaired in the bush. I had but the .300 left to hunt with, and two buffalo plus one lion to go. There were no other rifles in camp, except for Mark's .450-400 and his son's .450 Number Two (I think I listed those correctly).

We elected to go ahead with the .300 because Mark had seen me use it for the preceeding two weeks and he knew that I could shoot it. I was also shooting Winchester's Fail-Safe bullet in the .300, which had demonstrated its remarkable toughness and penetration capability time and again to us. Mark actually started calling them "expanding solids" (which is a very apt description). Of course, Mark was going to provide backup with his double, and his son was going to provide backup with his. I felt reasonably safe with two professional hunters, each carrying a double as insurance.

My main concern was exact bullet placement. I saw that as the one critical factor that was entirely in my hands. As it turned out, I shot each buffalo (a few days apart) in the spine from about 100 yards off-hand, and each bull dropped on the spot without fuss.

I shot the lion from about fifty yards away. The bullet hit him in the left shoulder, and exited just behind the right shoulder. At the shot, this lion leaped high in the air, performed a backward somersault, and crashed. He was dead when he hit the ground.

And, no, I'm not going to try this again, nor would I recommend any sort of .300 to anyone else for use on buffalo or lion. This was an exercise in expediency, which luckily worked out without a problem.

I'll be taking a .338 Win. Mag. and a .416 Remington for our upcoming safari next season....

AD

Hi,
I haven't seen the videos or the website...can someone describe what is wrong with Mr. Sullivan's ethics? If you could post the website address I'd like to see the trophies.

Here's the web site address:

http://www.nitroexpress.tv/

(Yeah, it's ".tv" instead of ".com")

-Bob F.

[ 11-18-2003, 00:55: Message edited by: Big Sky ]

Gee, I think his website speaks for itself. Thanks, I'll book elsewhere.
Blacktailer

Gentlemen,

Anyone heard of the rumor saying that he had a big punch up with another PH in Tanzania?

The way I heard it was MS booked to hunt and video a couple of buffalo charges on this concession.

He did that, and after he left, they found something like 20 dead buffalos in the bush.

Apparently, the PH on whose concession he hunted was not too pleased, hence the reported fight.

A friend has all MS's videos, I had some time to kill at his house one day. I watched them all .... with the sound off. I came away with the impression of a very competant PH who can handle a rifle and charge as well as anyone out there, period! It's really the way he sounds on the videos thats so annoying, his skills are top notch.

Saeed, that sounds bogus. Got any proof this took place?

I just visited his website for the first time.

I don't like his style. It's far too strident and self-promotional for my tastes. Plus, the hyper-macho elements are more than a little ridiculous--they are very nearly self-parody.

But as long as he doesn't intentionally wound his animals for the sake of filming dramatic follow up shots when he provokes them into charging, I don't suppose he is acting unethically.

So, IMO, he isn't necessarily wrong in what he does. He's just uncouth and offensive to good taste, as is much of the modern world, unfortunately.

I would like to view these videos. Would anyone be willing to allow me to borrow them for a short time? I will happily pay shipping and insurance both ways.

From Mark Sullivan's website;

quote:

---

....Rather than deciding the fate of a wounded Cape buffalo by simply blasting him into oblivion on the follow-up, I would confront the grand warrior with my double rifle, and beckon him to choose his own destiny.

---

I wonder what destiny he is talking about? Perhaps the slow and agonising death that will eventually come after hours/days of suffering because he (the buffalo) managed to kill the hunter after he was gut shot?

another quote form his site:

quote:

---

...What could possibly be more ethical or moral than to give the wounded beast a fighting chance, knowing full well that if I do not stop his charge, I will die? What more can I do to show my respect than to offer my life in return? This is a serious matter, because if I fail to kill him, I assure you, he will kill me. Death is certain to become one of us.

---

Hang on a minute. Who is the hunter, the client or the PH? Is it not the client who is supposed to be doing the shooting including the dispatch of a wounded buffalo? Perhaps MS does the shooting after asking the client to deliberately gut-shoot the buff

Enough said!

VI-Shooter-
i've got 5 of his videos. i can put them in my daily ups pickup. send me your address, i can't ship to po boxes.

i also have the book if you want. you need to watch them in order.

i never heard on any of videos mark telling a client shoot the buff in the guts.

pintailduck100-

I sent an e-mail to you. Thank you for your gratious offer!

Brad

Watch them in the order they were filmed.
No matter how you feel about Mark Sullivan, If you are charged by an animal, "his method" might be the only thing that will save you.
Think about it.

[ 11-15-2003, 01:21: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]