Following certain discussions held today which could eventually and hopefully lead to a resolution of the Conflict surrounding Savuli and indeed the Save Conservancy, and in the interests of facilitating a resolution ,I have removed my initial statement.
I understand that this may seem strange ,however as I stated above, there are factors at play that may impact negatively on the process that both the Save and Savuli are going through,which my post could affect negatively. I wish to ensure that the truth and facts are recorded here and hopefully we can ensure that this will be the case.
I trust I have all of your understanding in this regard.

Very sad to hear this.

Arnold Payne has posted a photo of a captured buffalo here, asking, I think US$100,000 or it.

That POS Arnold Payne posted here for a while. He seems like a complete scumbag.

I'm very sad to read this. I hope those that were booked with Terry have some other opportunity.

I am booked with Terry Anders for a hunt this year. Right now I am going on faith that we will be taken care of.

I hold out no hope that we will be going to Savuli. I highly doubt that Forever Africa will get this area back.

I received the following e mail from Arnold yesterday. I looked at the pictures he attached. If that kudu is 60, I have a ..... well never mind. You get the picture. The buff were not the big buff he was boasting of.

If I recall correctly, Savuli is 14,000 acres. A quota of 5 lions is absurd on such a small property.



GREETINGS EVERYONE FROM OUR ZIMBABWE CAMPS !!!!

A TRULY AMAZING SEASON CONTINUES AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEND A BRIEF UPDATE ON A FEW HUNTERS WHO HAVE RECENTLY TAKEN SUPERB TROPHIES

1. MR PONCHO HECHT HUNTED IN OUR SIJARIRA/MANJOLO CONCESSION AND TOOK A WONDERFUL DAGGA BOY ....GREAT! WE CONGRATULATE PONCHO!

2. MR . KELTON WHO HUNTED IN OUR WORLD FAMOUS SAVE VALLEY ( BIGGEST PRIVATE HUNTING CONCESSION IN THE WORLD ) CAMP RAN INTO A HERD OF OVER 150 BUFFALO ON HIS FIRST MORNING AND LATER THAT AFTERNOON RAN INTO A GROUP OF 10 DAGGA BOYS.....THE RESULT WAS A FANTASTIC BUFF FOR MR. KELTON!

3. MR. BERNIE MIZRAHI AND HIS 60 INCH KUDU!!!!! BERNIE SHOT THIS RECORD BOOK TROPHY IN OUR ZAMBEZI VALLEY SIJARIRA CAMP.



LAST MINUTE CANCELLATION SAVE VALLEY LION HUNT SPECIAL !!!!
18 DAY SAVE VALLEY LION HUNT ( NORMAL PRICE $ 55000.00 )
SAVE LION HUNT SPECIAL : $ 27500.00


THIS MAGNIFICENT LION HUNT WILL BE CONDUCTED OUT OF OUR SAVE VALLEY CAMP ( PLEASE SEE PICTURES ATTACHED ). THE FAMOUS SAVE VALLEY HAS ARGUABLY THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION OF LION ON THE AFRICAN CONTINENT. ( SERIOUS ENQUIRIES ONLY PLEASE )




NON TROPHY ELEPHANT HUNT SPECIAL

WE HAVE 2 LATE OPENINGS ( AVAILABLE DATES ONLY ) ON NON TROPHY ELEPHANT

DISCOUNTED TO : $ 12500.00




PLEASE CONTACT US DIRECT ON OUR E MAIL OR CALL OUR USA OFFICE AT 480 558 6932 OR ZIMBABWE CELL 011 263 773 534 877.


HAPPY HUNTING TO ALL!

KIND REGARDS

ARNOLD PAYNE www.impalasafaris.com

State theft of land legalised in new constitution
http://www.swradioafrica.com/

By Alex Bell
23 July 2012

The drafters of Zimbabwe’s new constitution are facing serious criticism for
signing off on a document that appears to legalise state sanctioned theft of
land, which could potentially lead to a fresh flurry of land invasions.

The new document, which has taken over three years and many millions of
dollars to complete, is already being criticised as a deeply flawed product
of negotiation. Analysts from both sides of Zimbabwe’s gaping political
divide have criticised the proposed charter, while other observers have said
the MDC has “given in” to ZANU PF.

But one element that is clearly in ZANU PF’s favour is the section on land.

The draft document enshrines the right of the state to seize land, while
also guaranteeing land invaders the right to the properties they seize. The
draft states that all agricultural land, including forestry land,
conservation land and horticultural land, among others, may be “acquired” by
the State for “public purpose.” The takeovers will also be done without
compensation according to the new charter and compensation issues cannot be
challenged in the courts.

The draft also stipulates that legal challenges to the state takeover of
land may not be on the ground that it was “discriminatory.”

The draft constitution also upholds the standards of the old charter by
insisting that Britain is responsible for compensation for the land seized
as part of the land grab. The draft states that “the former colonial power
has an obligation to pay compensation for agricultural land,” and if this
fails to happen “the Government of Zimbabwe has no obligation.”

This provision flies in the face of a 2008 ruling in the Southern African
Human Rights Court, which ruled that the land grab was unlawful. It ordered
the then ZANU PF led government to compensate the farmers who lost land,
saying the land seizures were “inherently discriminatory.”

Zimbabwe’s new charter however makes the legal provision for this regional
ruling to be ignored, and goes further to enshrine the rights of current and
future land invaders.

The document states that anyone “using or occupying” property before the
constitution comes into effect, “continues to be entitled to use or occupy
that land” when the charter becomes effective.

Douglas Mwonzora, the MDC-T spokesman and key party official heading the
constitution rewriting exercise, told SW Radio Africa on Monday that there
are “difficulties” in the land clauses, arguing that the product is one that
had to be negotiated with ZANU PF.

But he insisted that the provisions ensure that land acquisitions in the
future, when sanctioned by the state, will be done “legally,” because the
state take over of properties will be provided for in this new charter.

John Worsley-Worswick from Justice for Agriculture (JAG) meanwhile said the
clauses on land are concerning “because there are few changes to the old
constitution.”

“We are alarmed,” Worsley-Worswick said, emphasising the need for property
rights to be secured for the future of Zimbabwe. He also agreed that
Zimbabwe was appearing to legitimise land seizures with this document.

“For this country to move forward you need stability in agriculture, because
Zimbabwe is essentially an agriculture based economy. But this constitution
does not allow for any stability,” Worsley-Worswick said.

Maybe it is time for a new revolution. I wonder how many expats would be willing to fight if given proper support?

Duncan:

I have not met him. I have spoken to him once a couple of year back. My booking agent, John Barth of Adventure Unlimited, has met him. John indicated that he was a young guy and that he seemed like a nice enough guy. However, when Arnold displayed pictures of his "clients" with their trophies, John inquired if they were all Arnold's clients. He answered in the affirmative. John called him out on it as some were actually John's clients.

Duncan & Others - Guys look, I strongly suggest sending an e-mail directly to Ben Carter - Executive Director of the DSC. I've done so already, and we MUST put a stop to Mr. Payne quickly!

Duncan, I can happily pass on any/all facts you may have. I can make sure its gets into the hands of the right people.

How does the old saying go? Something like - "evil prevails when good men do nothing"

Please, DO SOMETHING!!!

I just had dinner at Terry's house this evening. He has hunters I n from Texas doing a plains game hunt right now. They are having a great time. Terry's wife expressed to me this afternoon in tha.t they have been blessed with several good options for current and coming clients. Apparently they have been taking great trophies even without Savuli.
She indicatEd that there are several positive things in their favor, but of course theY are heart broken for the lose of animals and the folks who they employed there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zimFrosty:
I can promise everyone who posts here that Terry and all involved with Savuli will make sure that anyone who has booked to hunt will be looked after,however everyone is still hopeful that the High Court Ruling will stand up and that at some stage sanity will return."

Duncan,

I've been in touch with Terry and Sheona several times a week since this situation came about and I too beleive Terry will be able to make everybody happy. I just rec'd today a very positive report from clients that recently hunted Masapas on the Save with Terry.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Duncan & Others - Guys look, I strongly suggest sending an e-mail directly to Ben Carter - Executive Director of the DSC. I've done so already, and we MUST put a stop to Mr. Payne quickly!

Duncan, I can happily pass on any/all facts you may have. I can make sure its gets into the hands of the right people.

How does the old saying go? Something like - "evil prevails when good men do nothing"

Please, DO SOMETHING!!!

You may be able to cause trouble for Mr. USA but he's a symptom, not the illness. We all know that if the local politicians want to take something from someone with less clout there's nothing to be done.

From the SCI "In the Crosshairs" e-Newsletter July 27, 2012

Mugabe Roped In Poaching War: “HARARE - Tourism minister Walter Mzembi has sought President Robert Mugabe and his deputy Joice Mujuru’s help in a vicious fight against top Zanu PF chiefs who have invaded wildlife conservancies with the backing of some top army officials. Highly placed sources told the Daily News Mzembi has been involved in a nasty fight with Shuvai Mahofa, a former Zanu PF MP and deputy minister over the invasion of a wildlife conservancy and poaching. Mzembi fears anarchy prevailing in the conservancies will dent the country’s image ahead of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) general assembly conference which Zimbabwe is co-hosting with Zambia next year. The event is viewed as key to jumpstarting Zimbabwe’s tourism sector which has suffered the brunt of bad publicity generated by a decade of political turmoil. Wildlife conservation activists claimed in interviews with the Daily News that Mahofa had strong backing from serving and retired military commanders, some of whom have interests in the conservancies where poaching is rife. Parks and Wildlife director general Vitalis Chadenga confirmed that poaching is rampant in the conservancies under dispute. Mzembi says he wants Mahofa, feared war veteran Francis Zimuto aka Black Jesus and a white farmer identified as Ken Drummond stopped from decimating animals in the lucrative ranch. A letter sent to Mugabe and Mujuru and seen by the Daily News states that Mahofa is acting illegally. ‘The High Court of Zimbabwe has ruled to suspend Mahofa’s lease agreement and that Forever African Safaris are the rightful occupiers of the ranch in the Save Valley Conservancy,’ reads the communication.” (Source: Daily News) Read the full article here http://bit.ly/OdQ95L

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Duncan & Others - Guys look, I strongly suggest sending an e-mail directly to Ben Carter - Executive Director of the DSC. I've done so already, and we MUST put a stop to Mr. Payne quickly!

Duncan, I can happily pass on any/all facts you may have. I can make sure its gets into the hands of the right people.

How does the old saying go? Something like - "evil prevails when good men do nothing"

Please, DO SOMETHING!!!

You may be able to cause trouble for Mr. USA but he's a symptom, not the illness. We all know that if the local politicians want to take something from someone with less clout there's nothing to be done.

Obviously you're right, but what Mr. Payne is doing - is WRONG too! And so, if we can in fact put a stop to his actions - which in turn can make it more difficult for illegal/immoral progress to continue on Savuli, its at least BETTER THAN NOTHING! Not to mention, by putting a stop to Mr. Payne's solicitation of hunters/clients at DSC/SCI, we could save fellow hunters alot of time, money, grief, and potentially legal action. So, although we are not capable of eliminating the entire problem - doing nothing is allowing "Evil To Prevail", and I for one won't stand for that.

Just so everybody is on the same page, and this is not a secret at this point, hunting in the Save Conservancy is currently “closed”. There are no TR2's from National Parks, and there is no High Court Order “legalizing” hunts.

I would tend to think that all operators have ceased operations and moved their hunters to areas outside the Save as possible, in order to protect their clients from lost trophies, problems on the ground, and potential prosecution from the Lacey Act - as well themselves (PH licenses).

I certainly do not wish to make things worse for our friends in Zim and caught up in this mess, but I most certainly would not like to see a hunter be terribly disappointed, or worse.

Bill:

Much of what you say is true. However, there are at least 4 operators that continue to hunt there right now. One of these is a long time personal friend of mine.

I am concerned for the trophies taken by the clients thus far this year. I am concerned about those hunting after the closure both from a legal and personal safety perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Just so everybody is on the same page, and this is not a secret at this point, hunting in the Save Conservancy is currently “closed”. There are no TR2's from National Parks, and there is no High Court Order “legalizing” hunts.

I would tend to think that all operators have ceased operations and moved their hunters to areas outside the Save as possible, in order to protect their clients from lost trophies, problems on the ground, and potential prosecution from the Lacey Act - as well themselves (PH licenses).

I certainly do not wish to make things worse for our friends in Zim and caught up in this mess, but I most certainly would not like to see a hunter be terribly disappointed, or worse.

I am beyond words right now. Supposed to be in Arda in 2 weeks.
This is a real problem now with areas being over populated with groups hunting on each others laps and hunting areas that may not be as good as first scheduled! Hopefully my story will be good in a few weeks and I am trying to keep as positive as I can but it is pretty tough right now.

quote:

Originally posted by nube:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Just so everybody is on the same page, and this is not a secret at this point, hunting in the Save Conservancy is currently “closed”. There are no TR2's from National Parks, and there is no High Court Order “legalizing” hunts.

I would tend to think that all operators have ceased operations and moved their hunters to areas outside the Save as possible, in order to protect their clients from lost trophies, problems on the ground, and potential prosecution from the Lacey Act - as well themselves (PH licenses).

I certainly do not wish to make things worse for our friends in Zim and caught up in this mess, but I most certainly would not like to see a hunter be terribly disappointed, or worse.

I am beyond words right now. Supposed to be in Arda in 2 weeks.
This is a real problem now with areas being over populated with groups hunting on each others laps and hunting areas that may not be as good as first scheduled! Hopefully my story will be good in a few weeks and I am trying to keep as positive as I can but it is pretty tough right now.

I feel for you, Phil.

There is so much uncertainty right now it's understandable you're concerned.

I hope wherever you hunt you have a hunt that exceeds your expectations.

I'm confident ZH will do everything they can to insure that happens.

I wish you the best of luck, Sir!

Chris

I'm suppose to be in Arda camp this time next year myself.
Will have to wait & see what happens.
My heart goes out to the operators & their employees at this time.
We're concerned about our safaris, but they're concerned about their livelyhoods, quite a bit more important.

Well that sucks.

My wife and I are supposed to leave in five days...
10-days with Terry and Sheona, and then 16 days with Zambezi Hunters in Arda...
What a shitty week to hear all of this...
Positives;
Terry and Sheaona are going to be GREAT hosts for wonderful Safari!
Alistair and company will work it out...
If you don't have hope, desire, and a general sense of "karma will prevail", what do you really have...?
I spoke with Alistair this am, and will again tomorrow am...with the exception of a couple hiccups he needs to work out, things will be okay gang!
Don't support the criminals....... Please

Folks

Trust your operators and PHS.

The SVC folk are good honest people who will NOT lead you wrong. If they say come, then they mean it and have a solution to these issues. Us Zimbos have learned over the years that there are many ways to skin a cat and I do not beleive that anyone in the SVC would willfully mislead clients . I know that an enormous amount of work has been done behind the scenes to resolve this, so if your operator says hunt....then hunt you should.

DinoinPV, you will enjoy your hunt with Terry and Sheona I assure you and I am sure I will run into at some stage

this is truly depressing - the save conservancy is the best place I have been to and look forward to going there many times

zimfrosty please list all the PHs who hunt stolen property in the conservancy

Wishing good luck and success to all the good folk who live work and hunt in the conservancy. There are some truly good people who done a great job building the conservancy. Would be a tragedy if it is poached and stolen by some scumbags.

My world wide hunting trips are my vacation. They are my get away from an immensely stressful profession. Frankly, I have spent an immense amount of money going on these trips. In my 10 trips to Zim, I estimate that I have spent over $400,000.

These people in Zim ( as well as certain other countries) need to realize that WE are their customers. I would think that the amount I have spent in Zim would qualify me as a pretty good customer. What happens when they piss off people like me? What happens when they make my vacations stressful? Why should I go back? Why should I book a hunt well in advance when I do not know whether it will happen or not? Most importantly, why would I ever book a hunt that might get me criminally charged for violations of the Lacey Act?

When I got word of these insane actions, I was in Argentina hunting ducks. This got me so worked up, I could not sleep at all that night.

I am supposed to be leaving for Zim on September 29. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I do know that this pisses me off. I do know that this is stressing me out. My vacations are supposed to relieve stress in my life NOT add to it.

Arrogance & greed have been the downfall of many businesses. The decision makers in Zim had better wake up. They may well find themselves in the same situation.

If there is good news, it is that I have 60 says. Phil & Dean have less than 10 days. I feel for you guys.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
My world wide hunting trips are my vacation. They are my get away from an immensely stressful profession. Frankly, I have spent an immense amount of money going on these trips. In my 10 trips to Zim, I estimate that I have spent over $400,000.

These people in Zim ( as well as certain other countries) need to realize that WE are their customers. I would think that the amount I have spent in Zim would qualify me as a pretty good customer. What happens when they piss off people like me? What happens when they make my vacations stressful? Why should I go back? Why should I book a hunt well in advance when I do not know whether it will happen or not? Most importantly, why would I ever book a hunt that might get me criminally charged for violations of the Lacey Act?

When I got word of these insane actions, I was in Argentina hunting ducks. This got me so worked up, I could not sleep at all that night.

I am supposed to be leaving for Zim on September 29. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I do know that this pisses me off. I do know that this is stressing me out. My vacations are supposed to relieve stress in my life NOT add to it.

Arrogance & greed have been the downfall of many businesses. The decision makers in Zim had better wake up. They may well find themselves in the same situation.

If there is good news, it is that I have 60 says. Phil & Dean have less than 10 days. I feel for you guys.

Larry - Without question, you are likely one of the BEST customers the SVC or Zim ever sees. Unfortunately, those making the decisions are SO DUMB, that explaining to them your rationale - is like explaining rocket science to a 1st grader, GOOD LUCK!!!!

I'm booked with Savuli next July. I'm confident that the good guys will sort this out. Maybe the bad guys will die in a horrible accident.

I'm also supposed to be in the Save in two weeks. I am hopeful that things will get sorted out and grateful to have the support of the AR group, Mark, and the world class reputation of Zambezi hunters working things out on my behalf. It is times like this, where it truly isn't the outfitter or clients "fault", that differentiates a good outfitter from a great one. Thanks to everyone who is helping out!!

I leave for a 2 week hunt in the Save Conservancy on Monday, so I should be able to provide a pretty good first hand account of what is going on when I return. I will be hunting on Matendere Ranch (Save' Safaris) with Mike Payne (no relation to Arnold Payne!!!). I hunted there last year, and it was 5 star across the board!

Mangwana

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
My world wide hunting trips are my vacation. They are my get away from an immensely stressful profession. Frankly, I have spent an immense amount of money going on these trips. In my 10 trips to Zim, I estimate that I have spent over $400,000.

These people in Zim ( as well as certain other countries) need to realize that WE are their customers. I would think that the amount I have spent in Zim would qualify me as a pretty good customer. What happens when they piss off people like me? What happens when they make my vacations stressful? Why should I go back? Why should I book a hunt well in advance when I do not know whether it will happen or not? Most importantly, why would I ever book a hunt that might get me criminally charged for violations of the Lacey Act?

When I got word of these insane actions, I was in Argentina hunting ducks. This got me so worked up, I could not sleep at all that night.

I am supposed to be leaving for Zim on September 29. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I do know that this pisses me off. I do know that this is stressing me out. My vacations are supposed to relieve stress in my life NOT add to it.

Arrogance & greed have been the downfall of many businesses. The decision makers in Zim had better wake up. They may well find themselves in the same situation.

If there is good news, it is that I have 60 says. Phil & Dean have less than 10 days. I feel for you guys.

Larry, all I can say is thank you so very much for the time and money you have spent helping out our group to find us info on this matter and provide us some good thought! There have been others on here as well that have given good advice through experience and I thank you all. I kind of feel numbe right now. On one hand I know I am still going to have a good time and on the other I know it is not what I have waited 2 years after booking to go do and just don't know what to expect now. I feel torn in half and really my excitment level of going is not very high which is a shame because that is what we all enjoy is the lead up to the hunt.

I have dreamed of hunting DG and certain species for a very long time now. I know I am in good hands with all those involved in our hunt.

My father and I booked a safari in the Save for 2 reasons: 1. It's supposed to be the best hunting in Africa and 2. It was the chance to be around the big stuff without hunting them. I was really looking forward to hearing lion roaring at nigh, seeing elephant during the day, etc.

I am not so much concerned about trophy size, but I am disappointed that we will not be going to the Save.

Wow can that place get much worse? I know the legitimate operators need support but but the idiotic actions by the Zim "government" seems to have no limits. Sounds like maddness. There must be a way to a regime change.....I'll start helping take collections

Id be curious to see how the tropy shipments work out.

I will be curious to how upcoming elections work out.....

I'm booked the end of May early June next year, same time as the elections are being held. For the first time I am truly nervous about hunting Zim. the problem is, if you wait for everything to be perfect in Africa, you will never get to go!

This post is absolutely disgusting. As a matter of fact, this entire website and all of the other hunting websites are ridiculous. It seems to me these hunting websites are for a bunch of old men that like to gossip and talk bad about each other. You all are worse than women.

I find it interesting that you all can talk a bunch of nonsense about a person but none of you so called “men” would have the balls to say these things to this Payne/Drummond people to their faces.

Any intelligent person knows that there are two sides to every story. Apparently, that is not the case for the people posting to this post/website. You take what ONE person says and you go with it. Get a life.

All of you Zimbabweans are the same. You like to gossip and bring the next person down. If someone tries to succeed in your country you can rest assured there will be someone to bring you down. That is why your country is such a mess. If you all stuck together (black or white) then maybe your country would have a chance. Stop posting such rubbish.

quote:

Originally posted by Disgusted:
This post is absolutely disgusting. As a matter of fact, this entire website and all of the other hunting websites are ridiculous. It seems to me these hunting websites are for a bunch of old men that like to gossip and talk bad about each other. You all are worse than women.

I find it interesting that you all can talk a bunch of nonsense about a person but none of you so called “men” would have the balls to say these things to this Payne/Drummond people to their faces.

Any intelligent person knows that there are two sides to every story. Apparently, that is not the case for the people posting to this post/website. You take what ONE person says and you go with it. Get a life.

All of you Zimbabweans are the same. You like to gossip and bring the next person down. If someone tries to succeed in your country you can rest assured there will be someone to bring you down. That is why your country is such a mess. If you all stuck together (black or white) then maybe your country would have a chance. Stop posting such rubbish.

" WARNING ; TROLL ALERT!!!" What is your cut in this, hey disgusting "digusted?"

I find it interesting that you all can talk a bunch of nonsense about a person but none of you so called “men” would have the balls to say these things to this Payne/Drummond people to their faces.
Got some fine dried and cured wild olive for them.
GET BACK IN YOUR HOLE!

I will be more than happy to tell Arnold Payne that capturing a buffalo, putting in an enclosure, then trying to sell it for $100,000 is an utter disgrace.

Especially as he adrvertised on this very site.

That buffalo was shot by an American client of Jason Stone somewhere else.

Are you Arnold Payne by any chance, as I see you are logging in from Zimbabwe?

Wowwww! This post should the proverbial pot.

quote:

Originally posted by sevenmagltd.:
. the problem is, if you wait for everything to be perfect in Africa, you will never get to go!

This.
By trip insurance and go hunting! Things are not always perfect, but other than security issues, it is better than staying at home in my opinion. I am sitting on Terry's veranda at the moment and we are going to hunt some tommorrow. Tinge here are moving forward.