I never said anyone is charging to much. My point is they decide what they make and could do hunts cheaper if they want.
I said they should make what they can just as I do. Just don't want to hear they need to charge this or that when the same hunt sells for 10,000 cheaper later in the year when then run out of time to sell it. We all know there still not losing money at that price but are more or less force to sell it at a discount or lose that chance at making that money on those tags.

I don't take lightly how dangerous a ph's job is and everything has a price. I think it is still dangerous when hunting plains game in a big 5 area but the rate is still less then when hunting one of the big 5. Why is that because they can.

Read what I am saying and don't add to it. They charge what they can because they can. I did not say it is worth more or less just pointing on the fact they set there own prices after the gov fees and tag cost. They know there cost and run it like a business just like everyone else who runs there business.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
I caused a big stir up with a simple quote on this subject on another forum. The cost of hunts is very simple. The outfitters don't need to charge what they do to make money they do because they can and we pay it. Plan and simple and 100% true.

You will hear 10 reason why they most but like some have pointed out on here it is just bs. If the cost to do the hunt is the same be it a buff or plains game then the only answer is because they can. If you notice more then ever there is more and more hunts that use to be booked up years ahead of time around later to be booked each year. Nothing wrong with guys getting as much as they can I am just getting sick of hearing they must or they will not stay in business or one of the other 10 reason they have.

You should get into the safari business mate. There is no way you can class the entire hunting industry in one statement.

Taking on DG is risky for the PH and many have to put their life on the line or risk serious injury. How much is that worth?

What some ones life is worth is up to that person I guess. You do a dangerous job for sure and you decide what that is worth.

When I am up 40ft on a ladder or 100 feet up on scaffolding do you think I have some danger there. I am just as dead if I fall as someone who gets attacked by an animal. We all make the choice of what we do and take the risk with that job. Not picking a fight with anyone just giving my point as a hunter.

Like wise hunting PG in a DG area has a different price tag to chasing a Bontebok around someones garden.

The true African experience in remote country comes at a cost.

Quite honestly, I find some of this ridiculous.

In my business, there are different billing rates for different things. Why? Because some things are harder than other. They are more complex, therefore they require someone with more experience and knowledge. Therefore it costs more.

Someone who is a springbok or blesbok killing machine might get you killed while buff or cat hunting. No thanks, I will happily pay the cost for the DG hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
What some ones life is worth is up to that person I guess. .You do a dangerous job for sure and you decide what that is worth.

+
And some people do that job cause they love or enjoy it and are good at it,
and not specifically because they get 'danger money' type reward.

and they dont necessarily view it as being anywhere near as dangerous as those naive people 'chasing a thrill' would.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

Taking on DG is risky for the PH and many have to put their life on the line or risk serious injury.
How much is that worth?

Hype aside,...How often do they really seriously put their life on the line?

I can think of numerous other professions where people are regularly & directly responsible for customers lives
Where the customer would certainly be dead or injured without them doing their daily regular tasks.
Even then they don't go blowing their trumpet about it.

Can't really say the same about PHs guiding clients onto DG...since most of the time on the overwhelming
vast majority of DG hunts,..nothing truly imminently life threatening presents itself.

But the hunting industry loves to capitalise even on the remote mostly uncommon chances of imminent danger,
cause such ' danger hype' (planted in the excited clients mind) is to their marketing & business model benefit.

Imagine if an operator actually advertised the bigger picture truth in his marketing, about DG,



"Cape buffalo, ha!...very rarely charge, vast majority the time they flee any chance they get, even when shot."

" I've a rich client who's killed a few hundred buffalo and has never been charged nor required me to step in."


The safari industry can't deny that they try to attract cashed -up clients who in their mind want to in some way
'cheat or challenge death' in their pursuit of DG....and I'm not just talking about MS.

Even just the utter BS nonsense hype one reads on AR about the supposedly 'aggressive out to get you BlacK mamba' ,
clearly gives an idea of how people minds and imaginations are so out of sink with stark sober worldly realities.
Sadly such garbage eminates not from 10 yr old children , but from successful mature age men with 10yr old minds...
-so one can just imagine the BS hype they also like to try and tag to hunting itself...small minds and big egos are the culprits.

Trax,

I am not claiming that pricing is wholly dictated by risk but it can be simply claimed as a contributing factor to DG pricing in comparison to PG hunting elsewhere.

FG,

would you agree that those PHs & hunting guides who take just about anyones money for a DG hunt,
then knowingly put themselves in the higher odds of having to more greatly risk their own well being
due to the higher likelyhood of having to bail-out the hopeless hunter type clients?

In such situations the PH has decided that his life(as well as others) is worth putting to greater
likelyhood of risk due to the lure & desire to do business.
...oR should they charge less for repeat clients who they know are fairly competent & capable and as such
present less likely potential risk to the PH, trackers,etc?

iTS a larger world economy functioning fact; - that people who statistically represent lower risk,
will often be required to pay lower premiums or penalties.

troll

quote:

Can't really say the same about PHs guiding clients onto DG...since most of the time on the overwhelming vast majority of DG hunts,..nothing truly imminently life threatening presents itself.

For the record, there are two classes of PH licenses: one that qualifies the PH to conduct/guide clients on hunts that include DG and the other limits the PH to guide on plains game hunts only.

If both were to be considered on the same level then the poor bugger with the inferior license is being subjected to discrimination.

Actually (and you will probably already know)that to gain access to "full PH status" the candidate needs to have had some considerable experience with DG and to be proficient enough in handling those "awkward" situations in order to qualify.

Even so, some of the best among us still get to push up the daisies prematurely.

Question is: who do you prefer having as a guide between the two?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
troll

thats interesting coming from an Ozzie guide who's says a modern loaded .375cal is marginal at best for DG,
but then allows inept clients to throw spears at water buffalo..

How easy ones proclaimed beliefs can buckle when money gets fluttered in front of them..

clearly dill brain stunts are offered on your safari service menu - if the cash incentive is heavy enough.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Can't really say the same about PHs guiding clients onto DG...since most of the time on the overwhelming vast majority of DG hunts,..nothing truly imminently life threatening presents itself.

For the record, there are two classes of PH licenses: one that qualifies the PH to conduct/guide clients on hunts that include DG and the other limits the PH to guide on plains game hunts only.

If both were to be considered on the same level then the poor bugger with the inferior license is being subjected to discrimination.

Actually (and you will probably already know)that to gain access to "full PH status" the candidate needs to have had some considerable experience with DG and to be proficient enough in handling those "awkward" situations in order to qualify.

Even so, some of the best among us still get to push up the daisies prematurely.

Question is: who do you prefer having as a guide between the two?

Fuj,

please let me be clear, I don't have problem with a professional charging what they CAN based on trusted experience and reputation.

- Yet in other industries they don't always charge more cause of greater qualifications and experience.
[i.e;] You don't necessarily get charged more to be instructed as a commercial pilot,
simply cause your instructor has 25,000hrs & various multiple aircraft ratings, (instead of just 5000 hrs behind him.)

rather, the aircraft type you are training influences the rate you pay for(an instructor) not his total comprehensive career experience,
yet he still has the same responsibility of keeping you safe and alive in any event.

However, what anyone with any skilled trade or profession is really worth, is really usually up to various market forces
(either locally, regionally or globally)

Oil rig workers are worth more in oil booms, I.T workers worth more in Tech booms, etc,etc,
then at the other end of the spectrum,
When times were tough 1930s, there were many intelligent well skilled people with great trade and professional career backgrounds,
but who couldn't even get job scraping horseshit off the street.

so its a really good idea for anyone in business, to recognise opportunity..and 'make hay while the sun shines'...

Comparing the price of a safari in the wild to a safari on a farm is just plain ridiculous!

And comparing the price of a lion hunt with a hunt for plains game is just the same.

An outfitter might get one or 2 lions on quota for the whole season, do you think he will price it at the same price as shooting an impala or a warthog??


Anyone who thinks cows are not dangerous!

Imagine if a wounded cape buffalo went loose in a village!??

They would have to bomb it from the air or send a cruise missile at it!

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

thats interesting coming from an Ozzie guide who's says a modern loaded .375cal is marginal at best for DG,
but then allows inept clients to throw spears at water buffalo..

How easy ones proclaimed beliefs can buckle when money gets fluttered in front of them..

clearly dill brain stunts are offered on your safari service menu - if the cash incentive is heavy enough.

Troll

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Like wise hunting PG in a DG area has a different price tag to chasing a Bontebok around someones garden.

The true African experience in remote country comes at a cost.

Totally agree. And that difference in cost is totally worth it.

A "plains game" hunt in a dangerous game area is a different animal. Bob Fontana was killed by a buffalo a few years ago while hunting with Paddy Curtis. Bob was hunting lesser kudu if I recall. Dangerous game or not, you will bump elephant and buffalo, at least, when hunting there. Should the Ph's rate be any different simply because the quarry is not dangerous?