I had a wonderful day today. I woke up with a text from my taxidermist asking me to call him.

Excitement went to disbelief rather quickly. After a full day I haven't been able to digest it and am unable to think clearly.

The below are pics of my lion hide after the initial soak- it is falling apart like toilet paper. I am still speechless and fortunately for both me and the exporter I haven't done anything yet.

I assume exporters have insurance for such matters. Has anyone gone through this? Only thing I have done is I have WhatsApped my PH.

Yes, it is an imported lion. Importer is in Zimbabwe.

Of course all the other hides which I don't give a fuck about are fine.

Sorry for your misfortune. This is not legal advice as I do not represent you and would never accept a case such as this, but have a couple of thoughts you might, or might not, want to consider.

I had a bad cape once, but that wasn't a problem. We just found a new cape; not so easy with a lion. I totally get that.

Couple of issues here. Who messed up the hide. Likely was someone in Africa. You might not be able to get jurisdiction against them in a US court (or collect if you did). But it could have been the tannery -- they will blame someone in Africa.

Second problem I see is damages. Hunters realize a lion is worth a lot to us personally, but it's still a piece of personal property, with limited value. The outfitter sold you a hunt and you got a successful one. So how do you separate the value of the experience from the value of the trophy?

The problems I see is who can you sue, and what are your recoverable damages? Maybe you can parlay it into a good deal on another hunt?

You must be gutted. I remember a while back our taxidermist/exporter recommended using a specific fine Namibian salt because of such problems. This can also be a symptom of re-using old salt or the skin overheating in humid conditions.

The other possibility is that it got wet in storage or during export.

If the PH claims that it was properly salted and cared for under his supervision then you cannot point fingers at him.

It is very worthwhile inspecting the skinning and salting process during the safari.

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It is very worthwhile inspecting the skinning and salting process during the safari.

Very true as cats in particular should not be delayed in skinning especially if temperatures are high and once in the back of the truck should be taken straight back to camp.

Fine or refined salt should be avoided on any skins.

FMC

Sorry for you loss, however memories and photos are what you have.

So a couple of questions.

How many bullet holes are in your lion skin?

How many times did you shoot it?

As other on here have indicated before, they did not receive the hide of the animal that they shot. Pictures that they had taken matched to the hide, showed the difference.

You should have some pictures to compare the hide too. Plus you know how many times you shot the lion and the location of the bullet hole(s).

It appears that you will have some lion claws to decide what you want to do with them.

After speaking with my taxidermist, the tanner and another taxidermist who also makes synthetic mounts (for non importables) I decided to continue the rest of the tanning process and see what we have left and go from there.

Bottom line is instead of going to SA to spot and stalk with a bow, I’m gonna need to pony up $60k more and import one with a bow.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
After speaking with my taxidermist, the tanner and another taxidermist who also makes synthetic mounts (for non importables) I decided to continue the rest of the tanning process and see what we have left and go from there.

Bottom line is instead of going to SA to spot and stalk with a bow, I’m gonna need to pony up $60k more and import one with a bow.

Can you clarify your last sentence? Note that a synthetic replica is an alternative?

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Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

It is very worthwhile inspecting the skinning and salting process during the safari.

Very true as cats in particular should not be delayed in skinning especially if temperatures are high and once in the back of the truck should be taken straight back to camp.

Fine or refined salt should be avoided on any skins.

Mine turned out perfect Fulvio - I remember that is exactly what you did.

If I were in this position, I think I would look to buy a similar lion from an estate sale and just call it a "replica."

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Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
After speaking with my taxidermist, the tanner and another taxidermist who also makes synthetic mounts (for non importables) I decided to continue the rest of the tanning process and see what we have left and go from there.

Bottom line is instead of going to SA to spot and stalk with a bow, I’m gonna need to pony up $60k more and import one with a bow.

Can you clarify your last sentence? Note that a synthetic replica is an alternative?

I've decided to do the big 5 with both a rifle and a bow. I want to "dart" the rhino if at all possible (or use a blunt arrow and paint it) with a bow to kill 2 birds with one stone. I have no issue with spot and stalking a non importable lion with a bow. Now I will need to go back and shoot another importable one with a bow- hence the $60k extra (I know it'll be closer to 80, but WTF I'm not really thinking clearly now). And God willing do it a third time with a double (or paint the rhino and use a double if I must).

I've WhatsAppd my PH and told him to tell the ranch manager and owner in that what happened was poor handling of the hide by the skinners as the consensus is that it is most likely grease burned or whatever from the initial handling by them. Lion was shot 09/16/18 @ 0438 hrs and in the skinners by 0800 hrs as digitally documented in photos.

I go back to Zim in October to start the bow 5 at an adjacent property. Hopefully by then my PH will have adequately told them "how the cow eats the cabbage...." prior to my return......

Got more pics from the tannery after the second (agitation stage). Hide is rotten and falling apart. Decided to continue on with special attention to the head and mane. Will look into a replica with that if at all possible.

quote:

I've decided to do the big 5 with both a rifle and a bow. I want to "dart" the rhino if at all possible (or use a blunt arrow and paint it) with a bow to kill 2 birds with one stone. I have no issue with spot and stalking a non importable lion with a bow. Now I will need to go back and shoot another importable one with a bow- hence the $60k extra (I know it'll be closer to 80, but WTF I'm not really thinking clearly now). And God willing do it a third time with a double (or paint the rhino and use a double if I must).

I've WhatsAppd my PH and told him to tell the ranch manager and owner in that what happened was poor handling of the hide by the skinners as the consensus is that it is most likely grease burned or whatever from the initial handling by them. Lion was shot 09/16/18 @ 0438 hrs and in the skinners by 0800 hrs as digitally documented in photos.

I go back to Zim in October to start the bow 5 at an adjacent property. Hopefully by then my PH will have adequately told them "how the cow eats the cabbage...." prior to my return......

Ok. I'm done.

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Originally posted by lavaca:

Ok. I'm done.

And appreciated. You know I can drive into Houston, we can grab a couple-three beers and go to the tannery. I'll introduce you as my attorney just to see the expression on their faces, just for fun..........

Actually. I am quite numb and can't really think clearly. I restrung two bows yesterday and wound up cutting one of the new strings.

What is it they say depression is anger directed inward? Well, my walls, doors, cars/driveway and cell phone are all happy to see where my anger is directed......NOW....

FMC,

I'm truly sorry for your troubles, but let's get one thing clear. I am not, and will not, be your lawyer. I don't want to have beers with you.

I wish you well and hope you don't have any anger toward me.

Damn sorry to hear about the lion hide Frank. I know I would be fuming after the dollars spent and the hoops jumped through to get a lion imported these days. The whole situation sucks...

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Lion was shot 09/16/18 @ 0438 hrs and in the skinners by 0800 hrs as digitally documented in photos.

Those timings certainly rule out the delay factor and I doubt the outfitter's skinning process raises questions.

The only remaining doubt can IMO be directed at inadequate/poor storage somewhere along the line as regardless on how the raw skin was salted, things can go dramatically wrong if that hide is subjected to high levels of humidity or gets wet and in all honesty, that hide appears beyond salvage.

I have no idea if this is true or not.


Some years back I was told of a similar story happening to a lion skin.

Apparently that lion was shot in South Africa, and both the PH and client went off to Zimbabwe for elephant.

The damage was caused by whoever was supposed to look after the salting.

He did salt it, but somehow they had a water leak which no one noticed, or checked.

As you can imagine, all hell broke loose, but a negotiated agreement was reached to shoot another lion.

I know for a fact that this sort of thing cannot happen on any of the places we have hunted.

The salting is done right next to the skinning shed, and we all look in there every day.

Agreed, Saeed.

I visit the skinning shed regularly. Usually right when we bring an animal in, and often, right before dinner.

FMC,

You do have the skull and thus the Lion can be measured and recorded. Definitely look at a replica or estate sale and maybe the taxidermist can mix and match.

I had a chat with a taxidermist here and he points fingers at either the salting process and suspects contaminated salt has been reused on this skin. Or alternatively, the hide got wet in storage.

It is always difficult to point fingers especially when the hide has been through so many hands.

Most of the hides Ive seen ruined in many years in the safari business were salted and stacked on top of each other sometimes for the whole season, and drainage ruined them, for what its worth... I would hold the PH responsible and go from there. The PH and the booking agent should check the facilities in the beginning of a partnership, but keep in mind, sometimes its really nobodys fault, it just happens it seems, but only in rare ocassions and how do you put the blame?? Try to reason with your contacts, before going to the courts is good advise..you dealing in two different worlds, but the choices have to be yours..and nothing will be settled on AR or any thread, where only one side is heard from..

Wow, just terrible. Most of the time, cat skins are handled with a lot of extra care. I'm sure everyone down the chain will say that they handled their end correctly.

Sorry that this happened.

The only time I had damage and got reimbursed was with a operator who saw the damage and admitted to it before it went on.

The other times it rapidly devolved into finger pointing between everyone from the PH on to my taxidermist. I do realize that with so many entities involved they can make it impossible to ever collect anything, and what your damages are is going to be really hard to nail down. Even if it’s insured you won’t collect anything in my experience… the insurance company joins the finger pointing parade.

I do check in with the skinning and even help out - or do my own…. The salting is certainly initiated well, but once you leave, you have no clue.

To me, the bigger occurrence has been switching of trophies- I have a hippo skull that the wounds are not at all what I shot, as an example. It was tagged right, but not mine- that taught me that I should check and see that happened…

My personal feeling is if it isn’t my cape, then it’s not the animal- having the PH replace the cape doesn’t really work for me.

If you are in a position of doing another hunt, great! Of course, the mount would be of the memories of the second hunt. If not, you do have the skull, claws, and photos to go with the memories.

I feel for you. The situation sucks. But, I really doubt unless your PH takes it on the chin you will see any compensation from anyone else in the chain.

Sorry to read this Frank.

Jim

So many things can ruin a hide.

Some atmospheric, some bacteria that can't be controlled, and everything else.

Sorry for your loss.

Problem with bloody lions is that they aren't $2500 like in the old days. They cost what a new F250 Lariat cost.

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What a shame. Just on the dates - shot in 2018 and now mid 2022 - is that how long it has taken to get the trophies / hides into the US ? Seems like a heck of a long time!

Again, great shame.

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Sorry to hear about this. A lion skin is hard to replace!

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Originally posted by Charlie64:
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What a shame. Just on the dates - shot in 2018 and now mid 2022 - is that how long it has taken to get the trophies / hides into the US ? Seems like a heck of a long time!

Again, great shame.

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4 years is a pretty damn long time for a skin. If it was in Africa for that long, I wouldn't be too surprised about the damage.

We recently imported a shipment from Zimbabwe that was stuck 2.5years due to COVID. Some skins were damaged (plains game) and the only skin in perfect condition was the lion.....pure luck I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
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What a shame. Just on the dates - shot in 2018 and now mid 2022 - is that how long it has taken to get the trophies / hides into the US ? Seems like a heck of a long time!

Again, great shame.

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Took 2 years for an import permit. Then 1 year to get it imported- COVID including having to get a second export permit. Almost missed the import deadline. That year was pure turmoil to say the least.

Anyway my PH is on it right now getting info about trophy handling logistics.

Frankly, I don’t want anything in all honesty. Nothing will be able to make up for this. I’d gladly have spent another hundred to have someone save that trophy. It’s not about the money, not about getter another hunt. I honestly don’t know what this is all about any more. But thanks for all the responses.

PS The only good thing to come about it is my wife said I need to go back and shoot another one even after she was reminded how much the first one cost….

I shot a lion in Burkina Faso in 130 degrees. around 4pm in the afternoon. We didn't follow up until the next day around 11am and found it dead in a shaded ravine about 100yards from where i shot it the previous day. Couldn't belive the skill was not damaged.