A farmer mate of mine called me up and said his wife did not want guns in the house and asked me if I would take a rifle inherited from his Grandfather. It was a Charles Osbourn .404J in superb condition apart from the stock which had cracked lengthways. A very kind gentleman on AR sent me a walnut blank which I had fitted by copying the original stock.

This was many years ago and then I was then carrying a .458 as my gun of choice. Typically with guns, you try and test them, and this rifle would shoot the top of the bead in the V which gave me a good sight picture and was very accurate.

The cartridge was blunt and looked undersized but everything I shot including some charges died instantly.

I recently sold my doubles and took the old girl out of the gun safe and she is definitely the caliber of my choice.

Last year my hunter wounded a buff and on the second day of tracking we put up the buff at ten yards which took two bullets from a 450NE with no visible effect and a well-placed bullet in the brain from the .404

My learning is to hit them in the right place with a good caliber and one that penetrates adequately. The .404J does all that.

It is a brilliant caliber and a classic and that is now the carry gun of my choice. I had the drop plate extended to accommodate 4 rounds but apart from that everything is Charles Osbourne.

Wonderful! Any photos?

I think I would be on the market for a new wife if mine said none!

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Wonderful! Any photos?

I think I would be on the market for a new wife if mine said none!

Andrew is correct about the 404, but you echoed my main take away from his post.

How excellent to get a classic rifle like that one.

The 404 J/450-400 NE ballistics of a 400gr bullet at 2150-2200 are damn good.

A 416 Rem loaded to this velocity is one of 4 rifles my buddy and I brought on an Aussie buff hunt. I think 10 buff were taken with that rifle. The penetration was downright impressive, recoil was shockingly light.

My next big bore….

I've ordered yesterday a new barrel in 404 Jeffery for my Blaser. Blaser does not produce barrels in that caliber - so a gunsmith will do the job based on a Walther CrMo barrel. 20 mm in the front which makes the barrel lighter than a Blaser Safari 22 mm barrel, but heaavier than the Semi Weight 19 mm barrel.

Will be tested on a Tuskless next year. Looking forward to that

Morten

quote:

Originally posted by Gundog 64:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Wonderful! Any photos?

I think I would be on the market for a new wife if mine said none!

Andrew is correct about the 404, but you echoed my main take away from his post.

I am a big fan of the caliber... so much so that I have two, a Hill Country Rifle in their excellent all-weather, all purpose cerakoted hardware in a McMillen stock and one of Duane's wood stock and rust blued steel versions. I have taken a number of buffalo and my biggest elephant bull with the .404 Jeffery. It's another caliber I strongly consider for a one gun safari depending on terrain.

I have an Original Oberndorf Mauser in Type A in a 404 J.

I have shot 1 elephant with it. From time to time I think of selling it, but its a rare gun.

It was and is my favorite caliber big bore, I shot the 404 and the 416 Rem for many years, my doubles were mostly 450-400s..I preferred the 40 caliber and shot much DG and PG with them, mostly my 404.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Wonderful! Any photos?

I think I would be on the market for a new wife if mine said none!

The 7x57 is a beaut and a BRNO from 1951

Starting in 2001, I’ve hunted Africa (11) times so far, and this coming summer will make (12). Half of them will be with a 404J & a medium bore. The rest have been with a 458 Lott when I was hunting DG. My use of the 404J started in 2014 when I first hunted with Andrew Baldry in Zambia. I took two Buffalo on the first two safaris with him with the 404J, and one on a later Safari with him when I had a 375 H&H in my hands.

My 404 is a Dakota Safari that weighs 8.5 lbs. and I just love it. I wish I was smart enough to post a pic of it. The two Buffaloes I took with it, I used 400gr. SAFs. I have since switched to 430 gr. NF (SD .343), but haven’t taken anything with that bullet yet. This summer I hope to finally take a Buff with Andrew in the Luangwa Valley and the 430 grainer. I love this caliber so much, I’ve ordered a second 404J, another Dakota (Parkwest), exactly like my first one. What’s the expression, ‘one is none, two is one…’?

I always take along a medium bore with my DG rifles, and so far with the 404J, I have used a 338WM, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62 and 375H&H. This summer, I’ll take a 9.3x66 (370 Sako Mag.) & 404J. All of these mediums are great companions to the 404J IMHO, but lately I’m thinking my 9.3s (or 375) make a better choice, in the event we run into DG while I’m hunting PG with a medium. This has happened a couple of times, and has opened my eyes a bit. I tend to think a 338WM makes a great medium with the 404 for excellent versatility, but I have felt better with a bigger medium bore when I’ve run into the DG! YMMV.

The 9.3x66 Federal factory ammo I’m taking are 286 gr. NP & 286 gr. BBS, so a great soft and solid. The velocity/energy respectively are 2,589/4,255 & 2,522/4,038. Those figures are quite close to a 375H&H. I also have Federal ammo in this caliber in 286 gr. SAFs and TSXs. I don’t reload, so I bought a ton of this ammo at $26/box! Fire sale so to speak, no pun intended.

My main two target animals will be Buffalo & Cookson Wildebeest, and perhaps other PG. Who knows, one could run into a gorgeous full black maned Lion…

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
I wish I was smart enough to post a pic of it.

Email it to me and I'll put it up.

404J is indeed my favorite cartridge among the mediums. I prefer the P64 M-70 to my Ruger #1, purely for the former’s ability to more rapidly deliver follow up shots.

As effective as the original load was, the ability to deliver a 400 grain monolithic bullet - my preference is the CEB BBW #13 - at 2480 fps, reflects a bigger hammer. It may be inconsequential in buffalo hunting, but it provides great penetration on elephant.

Many many years ago, a friend who was an ammo dealer gave me several cases full of assorted ammo made by RWS.

There were a couple of boxes of everything they made.

As soon as I saw the 404 - never seen it before - I decided to neck it down to several calibers.

Hence the 375/404, 338/404, 30/404 and 2 270/404.

My friend Roy Vincent did a 450 Vincent Short and a 450 Vincent Long.

I have use the 375, 30 and 270 fir hunting.

I am glad I did.

Some of the threads like Saeed's above regarding ammunition got me to thinking about ammo for the .404. Only a few Continental makers loaded ammunition for the .404. This is a caliber that would probably be relegated to the dust bin of history had it not been for Hornady and their line of safari loadings. They certainly resurrected it for the American market. Kudos to them for saving the .404 and probably the 450-400 and 450 NE!

quote:

404J is indeed my favorite cartridge among the mediums.

No way is the 404J a medium and the performance is due to perfect cartridge and bullet design and performance which challenges its bigger brothers.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Some of the threads like Saeed's above regarding ammunition got me to thinking about ammo for the .404. Only a few Continental makers loaded ammunition for the .404. This is a caliber that would probably be relegated to the dust bin of history had it not been for Hornady and their line of safari loadings. They certainly resurrected it for the American market. Kudos to them for saving the .404 and probably the 450-400 and 450 NE!

I started out using Hornady and against some advice continued with the DGX because they put shit down in a hurry.

Yes sir... both the DGS and DGX have always hammered whatever I have shot with them. Maybe not perfect, but damn close in my opinion.

There is a difference between the original DGX bullet, which was made of a brittle alloy, not bonded and would sometimes shatter and fail to penetrate, and the newer DGX, which is a better alloy, is bonded and is a far better bullet.

Lots of the old bullets and old ammunition are still on the shelves.

But the newer bonded DGX bullets and ammunition loaded with them are prominently labeled "BONDED".

I have a Winchester Model 70 that I am going to have re-barelled to .404 Jeffery.

Not that I need one, of course, but that stopped mattering a long time ago.

Now if Saeed would make me up a box of walterhog then I would have the perfect combination

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

404J is indeed my favorite cartridge among the mediums.

No way is the 404J a medium and the performance is due to perfect cartridge and bullet design and performance which challenges its bigger brothers.

IME, the 404s I know we’ll - both the 404J and the 404-375 Ruger wildcat I built, developed and used in Africa - punch above their weight. They are excellent African big game cartridges and credible for elephants. My comment on the 404J being a heavy medium merely reflects Pondoro Taylor’s classification scheme for DG cartridges. Heavies, in his system IIRC, are 450s and larger diameters. The 416s, 423s, and similar, in contrast, are large mediums.

No flies on a 400 grain monolithic solid at or very close to 2500 fps MV. IME that bullet shoots through an elephant’s chest broadside. In part, the smaller diameter and higher velocity - compared to the larger bores - in an unfailingly non-deformable bullet, enhances straight line penetration.

I can’t claim sufficient personal experience shooting eles to offer a worthwhile opinion on comparative efficacy of the 404s vs larger cartridges in ‘stopping’ eles. I’ll leave that to the PHs and gifted amateurs with sufficient cumulative experience.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5 Wildcatter:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

404J is indeed my favorite cartridge among the mediums.

No way is the 404J a medium and the performance is due to perfect cartridge and bullet design and performance which challenges its bigger brothers.

IME, the 404s I know we’ll - both the 404J and the 404-375 Ruger wildcat I built, developed and used in Africa - punch above their weight. They are excellent African big game cartridges and credible for elephants. My comment on the 404J being a heavy medium merely reflects Pondoro Taylor’s classification scheme for DG cartridges. Heavies, in his system IIRC, are 450s and larger diameters. The 416s, 423s, and similar, in contrast, are large mediums.

No flies on a 400 grain monolithic solid at or very close to 2500 fps MV. IME that bullet shoots through an elephant’s chest broadside. In part, the smaller diameter and higher velocity - compared to the larger bores - in an unfailingly non-deformable bullet, enhances straight line penetration.

I can’t claim sufficient personal experience shooting eles to offer a worthwhile opinion on comparative efficacy of the 404s vs larger cartridges in ‘stopping’ eles. I’ll leave that to the PHs and gifted amateurs with sufficient cumulative experience.

A pleasure to have a chat with someone who is educated in ballistics and firearms.

Hi Jim,

I sent you pics of my 404 Jeffery. Thanks for posting them if you can!


Surefire7

Non-binary.

This doesn’t compute. Does that mean we can’t do computer code in ‘0’ & ‘1’s??

A .416 is my go to. A .404 would do just as well.

For surefire7

Thanks Frostbit!!!

PURDY!!!

300 RUM was built on 404 J so it works in reverse as well
Find any 300 RUM and change barrel and you got yourself 404 J

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
A .416 is my go to. A .404 would do just as well.

A 416 REM at 2350 FPS is essentially the same as a 404J.

Yes, that’s enough for most situations. But a 404J at 2480-2500 fps with a well designed monolithic solid or well-controlled expanding bullet is more. Easily accomplished with the CEB BBW#13 400 grains in a 24” barrel with an appropriate load of RL-17.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
For surefire7

SF7,

A beautifully classical DGR chambered in one of the great, time proven cartridges. Hope you get to enjoy it in its African environment for years to come.

Cheers!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5 Wildcatter:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
For surefire7

SF7,

A beautifully classical DGR chambered in one of the great, time proven cartridges. Hope you get to enjoy it in its African environment for years to come.

Cheers!!!

Gotta love those Dakota rifles. I have two and would have three if I could find a 416 Rem.

Thanks Wildcatter & Drongo!

I particularly appreciate the aesthetics of your rifle. I have one Roger Biesen built for me on a Win M-70 pre-64 action. It worked perfectly 2 years ago on a Zim tuskless hunt.

Beautiful, functionally flawless DGRs are the epitome of classical safaris.

Some beautiful rifles posted!

Thanks UEG!

As I stated above, Dakota/Parkwest is building another 404J for me, and they just sent me pics of the nearly completed rifle, needing only checkering now. I also ordered a Classic Deluxe in 338-06 at the same time (one is none, two is one) which will be delivered together with the 404J.

If Frostbit will be so kind, I will ask him to post pics of these two rifles when I receive them. I ordered case coloring for the 338-06 receiver which looks stunning in the photos.

quote:

If Frostbit will be so kind, I will ask him to post pics of these two rifles when I receive them.

Please do! Thanks!

My brother-n-law was showing me how powerful AI is with ChatGPT. He told me to have it write anything I wanted. I said “write a limerick about the 404 Jeffery”. Here is what it spit out in less than a second. My brother-n-law is a college professor. He can’t tell if a paper is written by students or ChatGPT. The only thing he can do is quiz the students about what they wrote to see if they understand the material. Scary.

This is a bit off topic, but this may be the first AI limerick ever written about a 404 Jeffery.

There once was a rifle named Jeffery
Whose round was quite legendary
The 404 it shot
Was powerful and hot
For hunting, it was necessary