I was watching this weeks episode of Lethal (although I'm not sure why at this point). It's a international hunting show on the Outdoor Channel. Anyway the host John Wilson was hunting in RSA Limpopo area with Shangwari African Safaris when a PAC lion came up. Apparently a lion had come over from Botswana and was killing the neighbor's cattle. Apparently it was such a pressing issue that they let him mess around with a bow for several days until on the last day they spotted it and shot it with a rifle. Hmmmmmmmm............... I've seen canned lion hunts on TV before, but they stated them as such. This one just isn't passing the smell test. Am I missing something? I doubt it, but you never know.

Brett

PS. This is also the same host and show that was hunting a PAC buffalo in Mozambique on another episode with Artemis Safaris and again Shangwari Safaris. I'm pretty sure we've already established the illegality of clients performing PAC hunts in Mozambique. It seems to me these folk have got in with a pretty sorry lot of outfitters. It's too bad it's televised.

Almost forgot.........the "lion hunt" occured after his buddy shot a kudu off the back of the hunting truck on camera........... That was indeed some pretty shabby TV!

Brett

The TV show is tiled "Lethal" because it is lethal to sport hunting. Outdoor Channel has no business running crap like this. I've not seen this show; are you sure it is on the Outdoor Channel?

Blanco - As stated above it was on Outdoor Life Network not the Outdoor Channel. Duh!! Two different entities for sure.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by blanco county:
The TV show is tiled "Lethal" because it is lethal to sport hunting. Outdoor Channel has no business running crap like this. I've not seen this show; are you sure it is on the Outdoor Channel?

quote:

Originally posted by blanco county:
The TV show is tiled "Lethal" because it is lethal to sport hunting. Outdoor Channel has no business running crap like this. I've not seen this show; are you sure it is on the Outdoor Channel?

Yes it is and if that's all the better they can do then I would agree that they need not be aired.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Blanco - As stated above it was on Outdoor Life Network not the Outdoor Channel.

I did originally post that, but it was my mistake. It is in fact on the Outdoor Channel. It airs Thursdays at 2:30pm, Fridays at 12:00am, and Saturdays at 10:00PM.
http://outdoorchannel.com/Shows/Lethal.aspx

Brett

Blanco - Sorry I read it right but BAB didn't post it right, but has made changes. It indeed is on the Outdoor Channel tonight, think I'll watch a bit to check it out. Bad Duh on my part!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Blanco - As stated above it was on Outdoor Life Network not the Outdoor Channel. Duh!! Two different entities for sure.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by blanco county:
The TV show is tiled "Lethal" because it is lethal to sport hunting. Outdoor Channel has no business running crap like this. I've not seen this show; are you sure it is on the Outdoor Channel?

DirecTV will air it tonight at 9:00PM West Coast time on the Outdoor Channel #606

quote:

the host John Wilson was hunting in RSA Limpopo area with Shangwari African Safaris when a PAC lion came up. Apparently a lion had come over from Botswana and was killing the neighbor's cattle

I bet the people of Botswana are still singing the praises of this mighty hunter who saved their village from certain starvation.

Watched the program tonight. This piece of crap was beyond words. Total BS.

just watched this program and it was an obvious set up. the whole stalking sequence at the end was one of the biggest pieces of s--t I have seen in a while. they kept talking earlier about baiting the lion- then they kill a lioness. since they were on a fenced game ranch and the cat was supposedly killing cattle on a neighboring cattle ranch, how( and more importantly why) did it get on the game ranch? other parts of the show were equally disgusting- such as the drunk camera man stumbling around the boma at night and dancing with whoever the woman was.

I just finished watching it and it seems highly unlikely that a lone lioness would drift across the border from Botswana all by herself and start taking cattle. I have been on the Botswana side of border along the Limpopo in the Tuli area (specifically the Mashatu private game reserve) and all the farms I saw on the RSA side have had fences. The website for Shangwari Safaris (the host for this episode) also offers South African lion/lioness & plains game packages. I can't honestly say with 100% certainty that this was a canned hunt, but 99% is pretty easy. This program's host claimed that this was a cattle killing PAC lion that had come from Botswana which I believe to be untrue. I think this calls for an email campaign to The Outdoor Channel demanding a clarification on the nature of this hunt. I don't have a problem with canned lion hunts myself, but to claim it was something other than what it plainly was is a fraud.

Here is a copy of the message I gave to The Outdoor Channel through their website contact section.

Lethal show on 1-6-11 at 9pm PST. I have been on 15 African hunting trips and have hunted in that area. The lioness hunt shown was clearly a canned hunt and not a PAC (problem animal control) hunt as claimed. It would be extremely unusal for a lone lioness to drift across the border from Botswana, jump a game fence and start eating cattle all by herself. The host safari company (Shangwari) advertises RSA lion/lioness and plains game packages on their website. It is a fact that except for a few areas bordering Kruger Park that all lion hunting in South Africa is canned. Unsophisticated sportsmen who have never been to Africa might fall for this PAC claim, but knowledgable hunters will immediately recognize the free ranging border and fence jumping lone cattle killing lioness claim as a fraud. I don't personally have a problem with canned lion hunts, but to claim one as a free ranging hunt PAC hunt is disgusting and unethical. I would like the Outdoor Channel to investigate this hunt. I am sure you will find that what I say is accurate and then either edit the program removing the PAC claim and disclose its true nature or pull it altogether. This stuff is pure dynamite in the hands of anti-hunters and can only harm our sport.

That's pretty much what I figured. Add that to the ILLEGAL PAC buffalo hunt in Mozambique and you really leave a lot to be desired. I'm going to write the Outdoor Channel and the Lethal show itself. These idiots might not even know what they are doing. The lion maybe not, but the illegal PAC hunt I'd bet money they have no idea.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BigBoreCore:
Here is a copy of the message I gave to The Outdoor Channel through their website contact section.

Lethal show on 1-6-11 at 9pm PST. I have been on 15 African hunting trips and have hunted in that area. The lioness hunt shown was clearly a canned hunt and not a PAC (problem animal control) hunt as claimed. It would be extremely unusal for a lone lioness to drift across the border from Botswana, jump a game fence and start eating cattle all by herself. The host safari company (Shangwari) advertises RSA lion/lioness and plains game packages on their website. It is a fact that except for a few areas bordering Kruger Park that all lion hunting in South Africa is canned. Unsophisticated sportsmen who have never been to Africa might fall for this PAC claim, but knowledgable hunters will immediately recognize the free ranging border and fence jumping lone cattle killing lioness claim as a fraud. I don't personally have a problem with canned lion hunts, but to claim one as a free ranging hunt PAC hunt is disgusting and unethical. I would like the Outdoor Channel to investigate this hunt. I am sure you will find that what I say is accurate and then either edit the program removing the PAC claim and disclose its true nature or pull it altogether. This stuff is pure dynamite in the hands of anti-hunters and can only harm our sport.

Good on you BigBore and more of us should do the same.

I like a bloke who puts his money where his mouth is.

The shooter, notice I did not say hunter, on this show is full of shit. He previously had the show "Trophy Quest". He was going around tying to kill a bunch of stuff with his 30/30. Well he went on a bison hunt in North Dakota. He made it into this great big ordeal about how hard they hunted and how far they walked. I shot a bison on this ranch. Big cow for meat. Here is how a hunt goes. The rancher drives his tractor out with a big bale of hay.They tried hard to not show the tractor tracks put they are there if you pay close attention. Wait a few minutes for the bison to come in shoot the one you want. Our group of three could of been done in ten minutes. We could only shoot two bison at a time as that was all that would fit in the truck. It was very cold so we did not want the third one freezing when we drove the first two to the processor.Want a trophy bull chose the one out of the coral you want the rancher goes and releases it you go and "hunt" it the next day. The hunt on the show was for a two year old bull. All the two year olds are mixed in with the cows. So the "hunt" took place the same way as our meat shoot.

The video clips of them stalking the bison were pieced together. They were crawling through some scrubby trees trying to sneak up on the bison. The only trees on the ranch are behind the farmhouse and about a half mile from the bison pastures. As for the farmhouse they went on and on about the great accommodations. They showed video of the inside of a beautiful house. The video of them coming out of the house shows the old farmhouse where you actually stay. The interior video is of the ranchers house not the the house you stay at. So I know first hand this guy is a lying piece of shit.

I saw the lion show and immediately knew it was bull before he got into the P.A.C. story.

I decided to write the show frist. I'm going to wait for their reply before I write the Outdoor Channel. Here's my letter:

"To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Brett Barringer. I am an avid hunter and have been blessed enough to have hunted the wilds of Africa as well. Like all who have visited the dark continent I long to go back and enjoy filling the time in between trips with reading African hunting books and watching African hunting shows. I have watched several of your shows now. Two in particular have caught my attention and unfortunately for negative/unsavory reasons. The first of these episodes was the PAC buffalo hunt conducted in Mozambique. The hunt itself was fine and I congratulate the hunter wholeheartedly........with one LARGE exception. The hunt was and still is illegal. Mozambique's game laws clearly state that hunting of PAC animals MUST be conducted by a game official or a licensed PH. They may not even under the guidance of a PH be conducted by a client. I seriously doubt you knew this before the hunt or even now. I'm quite sure your outfitters failed to mention this little fact to you as well. This is a common problem and you are not the only ones to fall prey to this sort of ruse. It's unfortunate that you have found yourself with an outfitter so unscrupulous that they would jeopardize your financial well being and freedom via possible incarceration in a third world country for infraction of game laws. Yikes!!! They are not the only people offering PAC hunts in Mozambique. Unfortunately as I've stated they are all illegal. The one common thread seems to be second rate companies from RSA offering illegal PAC hunts in Mozambique and Zimbabwe too for that matter. That said not all companies hunting Mozambique from RSA are second rate. Buyer be ware! Please do not take this matter lightly! Please look into this aside from talking to your outfitter. If you like I would be more than happy to put you in contact with people who could inform you on this matter. I do not intend to cause you any trouble in this matter. I do however intend to inform you of this so you will not repeat this mistake and jeopardize your well being as well as nationally televise an illegal hunt. It's unfortunate that people who are ignorant of a country or area in Africa are often taken advantage of by unscrupulous hunting companies. I myself have been taken advantage of to some degree and I will freely admit it was due to my own ignorance. I would highly suggest using a reputable booking agent from now on to ensure you are set up with reputable companies that will take care of you and conduct hunts in a legal manner in whatever country you may hunt.

The second episode that caught my attention was the recent PAC lion hunt conducted in the Limpopo area of South Africa. For starters I'd like to say that the taking of the kudu from the back of the truck on camera was poor TV at best and poor sportsmanship at worst. If that's what you'd like to do and it's legal in the country you find yourself hunting by all means DO IT, but for the love of God don't televise it on national TV!!!! It does not paint hunters in a flattering light and only lends itself to the misconception that all safari hunters are pampered spoiled rich people who are chauffeured around slaughtering animals as they please out of the backs of expensive 4X4s. I'm sure you know as well as I what a gross misrepresentation this is, but people believe it none the less.

My next point of contention is regarding the representation of the "PAC" lion itself. That lion never saw the boundaries of Botswana. The only boundaries it ever saw were the bars of the cage where it was raised! And that's the truth. Call a spade a spade. Either you were lied to again by the same unscrupulous outfitter that led you on an illegal hunt in Mozambique (not hard to believe) or you were told that this was a canned lion hunt and chose to GROSSLY misrepresent the hunt on TV. The FACT is that +95% of lions taken in RSA are canned lions. The figure is probably much closer to 100% than 95%. The only wild lions taken in RSA are taken around the Kruger National Park. The Limpopo area is a common area for canned lion hunts and this one is no exception. I think the vast majority of outfitters are very upfront about what they are selling and your outfitter may have been with you. It's clear from their website they offer canned lion hunts. Unfortunately I've heard stories of outfitters going into elaborate stories of cattle killing lions from Botswana crossing the Limpopo River to con unsuspecting/ignorant clients into taking a canned lion under the guise of fair chase hunting for a wild lion. Conning people in this way is a disgusting practice and I certainly hope they were upfront with you. If you did know this was a canned lion hunt and chose to GROSSLY misrepresent it as a fair chase hunt for a wild lion you should be ashamed of yourselves! This will only lend to others being conned into taking canned lions under the wild Botswana cattle killing lion ruse. Lying to your audience is repulsive and unethical. I certainly hope this was not the case. As unfortunate as it is to say I sincerely hope you were conned on both occasions and will be better for the light I have shed. I do not mean to kick sand in your face or rain on your parade. I am only trying to hold you to the high ethical standards that I think ALL nationally televised hunting shows should be held. I sincerely hope you will view my comments in the light they were intended and do some research on your own to verify these things. Please feel free to contact me regarding this matter and I will be more than happy to put you in touch with people who can help you.

Happy New Year & Good Hunting!

Sincerely,

Brett Barringer"



Hopefully I won't be poo poo-ed. We'll see.

Brett

They also hunt wild lions in Pilanesburg National Park.

I've seen this piece of crap hunter berfore, Didn't know he had a new show. Like stated earlier he is only hurting the hunting world by producing crap like this, No wonder he has tire kingdom as his main sponser.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
They also hunt wild lions in Pilanesburg National Park.

Thank you for the heads up.

Brett

The guy (John Wilson) emailed me back from his blackberry. He said that the buffalo hunt was not in fact a PAC hunt. It was a paid for hunt booked in advance and his wording confused the matter. He said he should have worded it differently. That's all he said. I emailed him back asking: "What about the lion hunt?". We'll see.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by mike7mm08:
The shooter, notice I did not say hunter, on this show is full of shit. He previously had the show "Trophy Quest". He was going around tying to kill a bunch of stuff with his 30/30. Well he went on a bison hunt in North Dakota. He made it into this great big ordeal about how hard they hunted and how far they walked. I shot a bison on this ranch. Big cow for meat. Here is how a hunt goes. The rancher drives his tractor out with a big bale of hay.They tried hard to not show the tractor tracks put they are there if you pay close attention. Wait a few minutes for the bison to come in shoot the one you want. Our group of three could of been done in ten minutes. We could only shoot two bison at a time as that was all that would fit in the truck. It was very cold so we did not want the third one freezing when we drove the first two to the processor.Want a trophy bull chose the one out of the coral you want the rancher goes and releases it you go and "hunt" it the next day. The hunt on the show was for a two year old bull. All the two year olds are mixed in with the cows. So the "hunt" took place the same way as our meat shoot.

The video clips of them stalking the bison were pieced together. They were crawling through some scrubby trees trying to sneak up on the bison. The only trees on the ranch are behind the farmhouse and about a half mile from the bison pastures. As for the farmhouse they went on and on about the great accommodations. They showed video of the inside of a beautiful house. The video of them coming out of the house shows the old farmhouse where you actually stay. The interior video is of the ranchers house not the the house you stay at. So I know first hand this guy is a lying piece of shit.

I saw the lion show and immediately knew it was bull before he got into the P.A.C. story.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
The guy (John Wilson) emailed me back from his blackberry. He said that the buffalo hunt was not in fact a PAC hunt. It was a paid for hunt booked in advance and his wording confused the matter. He said he should have worded it differently. That's all he said. I emailed him back asking: "What about the lion hunt?". We'll see.

Brett

Keep it up

Isn't he a booking agent himself?

This was the response I got from him concerning the Lion.

The lion was PAC permitted. It was taking domestic live stock for about 2 months. Was believed to have escaped captivity. Had to be taken. Again thanks for the comments
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

quote:

The lion was PAC permitted. It was taking domestic live stock for about 2 months. Was believed to have escaped captivity. Had to be taken. Again thanks for the comments
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Can any of our South African friends enlighten me. Does the RSA even have such a thing as PAC lion hunts?

so. she escaped from captivity IN BOTSWANA?? and had been killing cattle for 2 MONTHS WITH NOTHING BEING DONE? how stupid does this idiot think you are?

That's the same email I received from him as well. What a liar. It's pretty clear he lied to his viewers and who really knows about his PAC buffalo hunt. At this point I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him. Letter to Outdoor Channel and possibly Tire Kingdom forthcoming.............

Brett

Just sent this to the Outdoor Channel:

"To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Brett Barringer. I am an avid hunter and never miss an opportunity to watch a number of your quality shows including the Professionals, Jim Shockey's Hunting Adventures, Tracks Across Africa, and Under Wild Skies. Thank you for providing quality programming!

Unfortunately I am writing in regards to a show which I feel is highly unethical and perhaps in one episode illegal. I have watched several episodes of Lethal. Two in particular have caught my attention and unfortunately for negative/unsavory reasons. The first of these episodes was the PAC (Problem Animal Control) cape buffalo hunt conducted in Mozambique, which was aired on November 24, 2010 (I believe). The hunt itself was fine and I congratulate the hunter wholeheartedly........with one LARGE exception. The hunt was and still is illegal. Mozambique's game laws clearly state that hunting of PAC animals MUST be conducted by a game official or a licensed PH. They may not even under the guidance of a PH be conducted by a client. I emailed Mr. John Wilson the host of the show regarding this alarming matter and he replied via email saying:

"I'm sorry if the moz buffalo came across as a PAC permitted hunt. It was a fully paid permit that the local chief in the village asked us the pursue because it had been reeking havoc and took the lives of two over the past year. Sorry if it came across as a PAC. The wording was probably my fault. thanks for watching
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry"


After watching the show it was abundantly clear that Mr. Wilson referred to the hunt repeatedly throughout the show as a PAC hunt and went to great length to explain about it being a PAC hunt. Either he went on an illegal hunt and is now denying it or he's a liar and GROSSLY misrepresented the hunt to YOUR viewers. Quite frankly I'm not sure which one is worse. Mr. Wilson (knowingly or unknowingly) going on one illegal hunt is just that ONE illegal hunt. Mr. Wilson lying and GROSSLY misrepresenting his hunt could send ????? any number of YOUR viewers on illegal hunts offered to them which they are sure must be legal because it was on the Outdoor Channel. Unfortunately illegal PAC hunts in Mozambique are in fact offered from time to time. I have seen them offered myself! I'm sure you can also see the serious nature of this problem. Either way this does not speak well for Mr. Wilson's character. I sincerely hope the Outdoor Channel can find more reputable people with character to deal with in the future.

The second episode that caught my attention was the recent PAC lion hunt conducted in the Limpopo area of South Africa and aired this week. For starters I'd like to say that the taking of the kudu from the back of the truck on camera was poor TV at best and poor sportsmanship at worst. If that's what Mr. Wilson's associate would like to do and it's legal in the country he finds himself hunting by all means DO IT, but for the love of God don't televise it on national TV!!!! It does not paint hunters in a flattering light and only lends itself to the misconception that all safari hunters are pampered spoiled rich people who are chauffeured around slaughtering animals as they please out of the backs of expensive 4X4s.

My next point of contention is regarding the representation of the "PAC" lion itself. Mr. Wilson went to pain staking lengths as did his professional hunter to explain that the lion being hunted was a wild lion that came from Botswana and was now in South Africa killing cattle. Supposedly the outfitter was then given a PAC license to kill said lion. The fact of the matter is that the lion never saw the boundaries of Botswana. The only boundaries it ever saw were the bars of the cage where it was raised! And that's the truth. Call a spade a spade. The FACT is that +95% of lions taken in RSA (Republic of South Africa) are canned lions. The figure is probably much closer to 100% than 95%. The only wild lions taken in RSA are taken around the Kruger National Park and the Pilansburg National Park (read not anywhere close to where Mr. Wilson was hunting). The Limpopo area where Mr. Wilson was hunting is a common area for canned lion hunts and this one was no exception. In the same email to Mr. Wilson I addressed this matter as well and he replied:

"The lion was PAC that was taking domestic livestock. Was believed to have escaped captivity previously thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry"


This response is so completely and utterly deceitful it's beyond belief. Mr. Wilson clearly knew this was not a wild lion from Botswana being hunted on a PAC license. He chose to lie through his teeth and further involve his PH by having him lie on camera as well to YOUR viewers! Although he has not admitted it this hunt was clearly for a pen raise lion that was let loose by his outfitter in an enclose area for him to hunt. Those are the facts! Aside from it being disgusting behavior on Mr. Wilson's part to blatantly lie to YOUR viewers it also lends to YOUR viewers being take for a ride by unscrupulous outfitters. The vast majority of outfitters offering canned lion hunts are very upfront about what they are selling. Unfortunately I've heard stories of outfitters going into elaborate stories of cattle killing lions from Botswana crossing the Limpopo River to con unsuspecting/ignorant clients into taking a canned lion under the guise of fair chase hunting for a wild lion. Conning people in this way is a disgusting practice. Mr. Wilson did know this was a canned lion hunt and chose to GROSSLY misrepresent it as a fair chase hunt for a wild Botswanan lion and he should be ashamed of himself! This will only lend to others being conned into taking canned lions under the wild Botswana cattle killing lion ruse. Mr. Wilson lying to YOUR audience is repulsive and unethical.

I sincerely hope you will view my comments with the attention they deserve and pass them on to the proper person responsible for dealing with Mr. Wilson. I expect better from the programs airing on the Outdoor Channel. I hope you will either help Mr. Wilson to clean up his act or preferably replace him with another show run by someone with honor and integrity! Thank you for your time and attention regarding this matter.

Happy New Year & Good Hunting!

Sincerely,

Brett Barringer"



We'll see what happens..........

Brett

I think a lot of these TV programs take it for granted that we would believe everything they show.

Not long ago, I was watching National Geographic chanel with my daughter.

They were showing some cheetahs hunting.

The cheetahs chased a reedbuck, caught up with him, knocked him down. He spun around about 180 degrees, and start running again.

The cheetahs regained their footing, and started off after him.

They passed behind some bushes, and suddenly appeared on the other side with the cheetahs holding a Thomspon gazelle by the neck!!?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
They passed behind some bushes, and suddenly appeared on the other side with the cheetahs holding a Thomspon gazelle by the neck!!?

Chameleon model reedbuck I see.....or is it a chameleon model Thompson's Gazelle?????

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think a lot of these TV programs take it for granted that we would believe everything they show.

Not long ago, I was watching National Geographic chanel with my daughter.

They were showing some cheetahs hunting.

The cheetahs chased a reedbuck, caught up with him, knocked him down. He spun around about 180 degrees, and start running again.

The cheetahs regained their footing, and started off after him.

They passed behind some bushes, and suddenly appeared on the other side with the cheetahs holding a Thomspon gazelle by the neck!!?

I think that's very common in docus. They cut all material together and make it look like a a great adventure.
I once shared camp with a crew that made a hunting show. I can tell you the show was completly diffrent from my impression of the hunt .
I always wonder how people can believe that a small farm produces several lions a year. You don't have to be a wildlife expert to see that something is wrong.

Shame it's always the low life bullshitters who make the most noise and it is no wonder people hate hunting when they think this is what we do.

At some stage we will have to create a PR machine to represent our interests. We can use the "system" to drown out both antis and choot tossers like this guy. All it will take is commitment and I vote we don't leave it too late.

quote:

I always wonder how people can believe that a small farm produces several lions a year. You don't have to be a wildlife expert to see that something is wrong.

... or 20-30 greater kudu bulls with 52-inch or longer horns.

Bill Quimby

Good day Gentleman

Well let me start off by saying I am not a booking agent I am a fully licence hunting Outfitter and PH in South Africa I have my own private game ranch as well.

I was not involved in any way in hunting or advertising a PAC lion hunt, the hunt I am trying to sell is in the North West province of South Africa this hunt will be conducted by me personally and includes cities permits.

There was no mention that this was a PAC or wild unfenced lion hunt! All the details are explained and set out clearly in my hunt offer.

I realize that there are a lot of people on this forum that don’t like the idea of hunting a lion on a fenced property and I have no problem with the fact that people would rather hunt open wild area’s for lion.

This is a simple offer and if you are not interested I understand and respect it but please show me the same respect Fairgame?

Surely you can understand the fact that you can’t hunt all the wild lions that there is a demand for and sure captive bread lions is not the ideal situation but they do serve a purpose.

They help to take the pressure off the wild lion populations and ensure that there will be the opportunity to hunt wild lion for years to come.

They also help to keep prices in check not everyone can afford a 21 day wild lion hunt and yes it competes with you in the sense that it is cheaper but the client also has to except the fact that there will be fences involved but for that we are also charging a lower price.

Lion hunts in South Africa do happen you do not have to like it or agree with it but as long as it is done on an ethical standard and the lion is hunted on foot and can roam freely inside the property of let’s say 15 000 acres I would appreciate it if you don’t generalize.

When South African outfitter come to Zambia and get era’s you say that we are taking the bread out of your mouths but when we try and make a living by hunting in our own country you also have a problem?

Hell give a guy a break!

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

Louis,

Are you familiar with Shangwire African Safaris or the PH Juan Pace? They are the company in question here. Does this look as clearly to be a canned lion hunt to you as it does to the rest of us. Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Brett

Makes TRACKS look pretty good 'ey boys ? For sure it is a wee bit harder to get a show "our way" with real wild lions rather than the one day " river swimming cattle killing " bullshit Bot's lions. PLEASE let Outdoor Channel know you like Africa programming , just not bullshit like this.
Many thanks
Dave

Hi Brett

Yes I know PH Juan Pace I can’t say that I ever met him thought?

From what I can gather why people are upset here is that a lioness was hunted in South Africa and according to the show it is some PAC hunt and the information that was given in the show was misleading or wrong and people took offence.

Well obviously I have no problem hunting a captive bread lion on a big property but then I will label it as such simple as that.

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

Louis,

I have absolutely nothing against people wanting to hunt captive bred lions, or any other animal.

What I do object to is claiming that those animals were either free range, or PAC animals.

Also, I find it very distasteful that some South African PHs seem to specialize in trasposrting captively bred animals, and having them shot somewhere else.

It really boils down to what a hunter wants to do. It is his money, and his time.

It only gets irritating when they claim otherwise.