The lion episode just aired here on Guam. After watching it, I think Mr. Wilson did believe he had just killed a cattle killing marauder.

I came away with two thoughts:
1. Never do any business with Shangwari Safaris and/or Juan Pace.
2. John Wilson is not the sharpest tool in the shed and/or is very naive.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when he reached down, touched the dead lioness, and said. "You won't be killing any more cattle."

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Also, I find it very distasteful that some South African PHs seem to specialize in trasposrting captively bred animals, and having them shot somewhere else.

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Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:

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Also, I find it very distasteful that some South African PHs seem to specialize in trasposrting captively bred animals, and having them shot somewhere else.

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Hi Saeed

I understand your and others point 100% people pay a lot money to be able to say without a doubt that they hunted a wild lion!

I agree with you the hunt should be ladled as it is if it was captive bread then that is what it was no bending of the truth.

Saeed as I said the captive bread lion industry is not the ideal situation but if you really think about it they do serve a purpose I truly understand that transporting a lion 1000 km just to have it shot is in bad taste but like you said some people are guilty of it and not everyone.

Unfortunately we don’t make the rules we just do our best to stay well within them.

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

I recommend that SCI, Dallas Safari Club and other hunting organizations investigate this matter and issue a statement. Furthemore, these organizations petition the broadcast network to not promote these unethical practices.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
I recommend that SCI, Dallas Safari Club and other hunting organizations investigate this matter and issue a statement. Furthemore, these organizations petition the broadcast network to not promote these unethical practices.

I am absolutely certain that SCI's obsessions with trophy scores has made this problem worse.

Likewise, I am absolutely certain that many so called "free range" animals entered in the record book have been transported from farms to that purpose.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
I recommend that SCI, Dallas Safari Club and other hunting organizations investigate this matter and issue a statement. Furthemore, these organizations petition the broadcast network to not promote these unethical practices.

I am absolutely certain that SCI's obsessions with trophy scores has made this problem worse.

Likewise, I am absolutely certain that many so called "free range" animals entered in the record book have been transported from farms to that purpose.

Saaed.........I am absolutely certain that you are correct on both counts.

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Originally posted by Jack D Bold:

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The lion was PAC permitted. It was taking domestic live stock for about 2 months. Was believed to have escaped captivity. Had to be taken. Again thanks for the comments
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Can any of our South African friends enlighten me. Does the RSA even have such a thing as PAC lion hunts?

Jack D Bold,

Yes we have PAC Lions, normally on properties bordering the Kruger National Park however these PAC Lions cannot be sold upfront as you do not know when the call from Parks will come.
We do get the opportunity from time to time to shoot these, we can sell the hunt however this is at short notice, we could get the call and we have 2 days to respond (shoot the lion/s) Thus you are never sure if it is going to be a male or female.
To my knowledge, PAC Lions do exist but you cannot advertise these months ahead.

Are the PAC licenses sex specific? For a lioness, for a male, or just a lion?

Brett

No the permit will just say Lion.

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Originally posted by Bouna Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:

quote:

The lion was PAC permitted. It was taking domestic live stock for about 2 months. Was believed to have escaped captivity. Had to be taken. Again thanks for the comments
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Can any of our South African friends enlighten me. Does the RSA even have such a thing as PAC lion hunts?

Jack D Bold,

Yes we have PAC Lions, normally on properties bordering the Kruger National Park however these PAC Lions cannot be sold upfront as you do not know when the call from Parks will come.
We do get the opportunity from time to time to shoot these, we can sell the hunt however this is at short notice, we could get the call and we have 2 days to respond (shoot the lion/s) Thus you are never sure if it is going to be a male or female.
To my knowledge, PAC Lions do exist but you cannot advertise these months ahead.

A few questions:

If you have only 2/3 days to respond what are the realistic chances of securing a client in such a limited time frame?

The other PAC lion 'hung around' for 2 months - why the delay?

The issue of PAC animals (from livestock raiders to man-eaters) and delays in expediting their demise has been raised on several occasions.
By delaying an immediate response in culling them could also lead one to suspect an orchestrated sale of a farmed lion posing as a PAC lion.

With all the game available in national parks these damned lions always seem to think the 'grass is greener' on the other side - just cannot figure that out.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Bouna Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:

quote:

The lion was PAC permitted. It was taking domestic live stock for about 2 months. Was believed to have escaped captivity. Had to be taken. Again thanks for the comments
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Can any of our South African friends enlighten me. Does the RSA even have such a thing as PAC lion hunts?

Jack D Bold,

Yes we have PAC Lions, normally on properties bordering the Kruger National Park however these PAC Lions cannot be sold upfront as you do not know when the call from Parks will come.
We do get the opportunity from time to time to shoot these, we can sell the hunt however this is at short notice, we could get the call and we have 2 days to respond (shoot the lion/s) Thus you are never sure if it is going to be a male or female.
To my knowledge, PAC Lions do exist but you cannot advertise these months ahead.

A few questions:

If you have only 2/3 days to respond what are the realistic chances of securing a client in such a limited time frame?

The other PAC lion 'hung around' for 2 months - why the delay?

The issue of PAC animals (from livestock raiders to man-eaters) and delays in expediting their demise has been raised on several occasions.
By delaying an immediate response in culling them could also lead one to suspect an orchestrated sale of a farmed lion posing as a PAC lion.

With all the game available in national parks these damned lions always seem to think the 'grass is greener' on the other side - just cannot figure that out.

Sometimes an Outfitter might have a client in the country that could be interested in this and from the time this is deemed a PAC permits need to be arranged. I agree with you that it might look suspicious, but assure you it is not and I for one do not normally respond to this as a saleable animal.

"The other PAC lion "hung around" for 2 months - why the delay?" That sir I cannot comment about only raise an opinion.... NOT A PAC LION... POINT.

I responded to a question raised, if indeed we in SA have PAC Lion.

I agree with you why do they think the "grass is greener"... my opinion again.... too many Lion in a specific area and the pressure the prides put on each other and the proximity of livestock creates this problem.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
A few questions:

If you have only 2/3 days to respond what are the realistic chances of securing a client in such a limited time frame?

The other PAC lion 'hung around' for 2 months - why the delay?

The issue of PAC animals (from livestock raiders to man-eaters) and delays in expediting their demise has been raised on several occasions.
By delaying an immediate response in culling them could also lead one to suspect an orchestrated sale of a farmed lion posing as a PAC lion.

With all the game available in national parks these damned lions always seem to think the 'grass is greener' on the other side - just cannot figure that out.

Be at the right place at the right time and then yes domestic animals are much easier to catch on the other side of the fence. A lot of wealthy South Africans also keep an ear on the ground for these PAC deals and if there is no takers the owner usually tries to finish of the PAC animal.

I did not see the show. I can't comment. However, I do have to wonder if this guy had the experience to know the lion story was BS? There was certainly a time where I would have bought that story hook line and sinker. I think it takes a few trips to gain the experience necessary to sort something like this out.

Maybe he did know. Maybe he didn't .

I hear you Larry. Unfortunately this guy is just a fat lying piece of............

Brett

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Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
I hear you Larry. Unfortunately this guy is just a fat lying piece of............

Brett

Tell us how you really feel Brett.

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