Caracano,

Not only is the world more safe, but through Americas neverending vigillence it will continue to be that way.

Glad you never had to fight for anything.

This is from the Big Bores chat room -> Blaser R93?

Carcano posted 10 September 2005:

"Your impressions are quite correct indeed. The NZ case also shows that the R93 has quite a sturdy locking system, as long (AND ONLY AS LONG) it is not subjected to major rearward gas escape.

And here lies the construction's problem, which dishonest tricksters as RuarkReader try to conjure away, instead of acknowledging it soberly, and *then* dealing with it."


Ruarkreader posted 11 September 2005:

"Okay...

At the risk of being called clueless, gullible, dishonest, a trickster or some other insult by one of this thread's participants, I'll follow the discussion a bit further.

Given the Blaser R93's locking system can withstand pressures up to 116,000 psi:

How does the rearward escape of gas (without exerting pressue) deform the locking fingers of the collet and how does the pressure testing by DEVA not simulate or measure this axial force?"


And now Carcano says "the question is not why the couple of R93s failed -- we know why most of them failed."

Cheers.

So this Blaser riflel is setting the world on fire and sales or pathitic from Win. Ruger and Remington, and Blaser is taken over the market...

I thought I lived int he heart of American hunting country, and I have never seen a Blaser in the field...Plenty of Mausers in one form or another, Win 70, Ruger 77, 700 Remingtons show up and now and then a Weatherby..All those guns that are off center, worthless and non functional..

But then I only hunt in Idaho, Nebraska, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Mexico...I suppose all the Blaser are in New York, get a rope!

You know the funny part with this whole Blaser debate is that I'll bet most Blaser owners have all the rifles that Ray mentions. It is like the Blaser is the darkside of the gun world. I love how polarized people get over the Blaser. It is almost like, if you like a Blaser you are slighted somewhat by others. There was a time that The venerable Mauser was considered too high tech when it first came out, I will also say that alot of hunters in Africa especially frowned on the use of soft nose bullets because of ther poor track record. I'll bet the majority of posters on this board all use expanding ammo on a regualer basis.
So people sit and deride the Blaser, I think the part that gets most folks is that it works, it is unconventional, and has been used and made inroads into the traditional shooters hands. To quote D99, are you supposed to wear moon boots when you shoot it.

Aleko

Aleko,

I have pre-64 Wins, 700's, Brownings and Savage.

Thinking of trading for more Blaser barrels.

Keep that in mind when that 400 barrel becomes available.

Ted, I must admit the .400 barrel interests me too. I would like the see it in a standard contour barrel.

Aleko

I see how this is going to work!

OK, I want the second one.

I have a feeling, that a standard contour in .40 cal would interest alot of Blaser shooters. I have been looking at the ballistics of the round, it doesn't look half bad

Aleko

quote:

I thought I lived int he heart of American hunting country, and I have never seen a Blaser in the field

Now Ray you know that is not true. Remember how you fell in love with mine on that New Mexico mule deer hunt. I thought I was going to have to give it to you to keep from prying it out of your hands.

quote:

I have a feeling, that a standard contour in .40 cal would interest alot of Blaser shooters. I have been looking at the ballistics of the round, it doesn't look half bad

Aleko

I agree.

Having a switch barrel gun that requires a different stock isn't that handy.

A 400 barrel set up for shorter distances and a 375 set up for longer distances that can also serve as backup for the 400 packed in a two barrel case is what I would like to have before the next trip.

Aleko
I just do not think that the 400 H&H will be in a standard bbl. Take a look at a standard 375 bbl. There just ain't that much steel left.
They might could do it in a medium bbl.... But My 450/400 weighs 10 lbs and an ounce or two, I do not think I would want to shoot a 400 grain bullet at @ 2150 to 2200 fps in a standard contour Blaser bbl. Of course I shoot my 375 Tracker quite a bit, it would be a dream to carry.

NE 450 No 2,

How would you compare the recoil of your .375 H&H Tracker to an R 93 in 9.3x62 caliber without a kickstop or Mag-na-porting (which is what I am thinking of adding)? Any information would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

RuarkReader
My 375 tracker does not have any type of porting, nor does it have a kickstop.
Off a bench with 300 grain factory loads it is pretty thumpy. I have not shot a 9,3x62 but I do have a 9,3x74 R double at 7 1/4 lbs without scope. The 375 is quite a bit more thumpy.
It is not painful to shoot from hunting positions, but it is not a rifle most people would want to shoot all day.
I also have a Tracker bbl in 308. I do not think you will have any problems shooting a 9,3x62 Tracker. I think that would be an excellent bbl for a Blaser.
If I did not have a few hundred rounds of 375 factory left over from a research project I would get a 9,3x62 bbl... But I have enough factory ammo and brass to last a pretty good while.
I have killed a lot of game with the 9,3x74R, it and the 9,3x62 may just be 2 of the best hunting calibres on the Planet.
My 375 Tracker bbl[ 19 3/4"] shoots as good on paper as my other standard Blaser BBl. With my 308 Tracker bbl my friend killed a javelina at 328 yards and I killed one at 412. Both were one shot fired one shot kill.
You do not give up any accuracy with the tracker bbl.

I traded my 375 sporter barrel for a 243 K95 barrel for the old man. I never shot it thinking I wouldn't be comfortable with it. But you know, I have a 338 sporter weight barrel and it's not bad. It's not exceptionally fun, but it's shootable.

I beleive I am getting a 375 sporter barrel (the one I had) back in trade in a few weeks. I think I am going to try it.

N E 450 No 2,

Thank you for the information.

I've been wrestling with the idea of adding the .338 win. mag., .375 H&H mag., or 9.3x62 components to my R 93 -- or just buying another Synthetic (Offroad) in .400 H&H Magnum when/if it comes out.

But, I DO want to shoot whatever I get like a marksman. Ganyana (especially) and others, have spoken very well of the 9.3x62 saying it's accurate, very comfortable to shoot, and kills like a .375 H&H under 200 yards. I'm eager to try the Oryx cartridge as well as some custom stuff done by Conley Precision using 300 grain Swift A-Frames.

Thanks again for your thoughts. I'll stay on the 9.3 track and try to get to Africa before it's all gone.

Cheers,
Jim

I am thinking that the .400 H&H is about 10,3mm in diameter. Blaser makes a barrel in that diameter already for the 10,3x60R. I really don't think it will kick any harder than our trackers in .375

Aleko

id love a blaser in 416 rigby...but alas, there isnt enough room....

ALSO a Blaser RIMFIRE would be sweet, a set up like the SAKO QUAD would also be an awsome lik gun!

Aleko,
Is the 10,3x60R a standard contour bbl?
Looking at the catalogue it would seem so.
Its length is 70cm weight 3,2kg.
both the semi-weight and safari bbls are shorter, but heavier.

I beleive the 10.3x60R is a standard diameter, but it is a single shot and a very slow low pressure cartridge.

Not sure why they put this into the R93, I guess it gives those Swiss hunters the ability to shoot a 10.3 in the same rifle they use for hunting in Poland and Hungary???????

WE NEED A BLASER FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone help me pimp Saeed for this, please!

Ruark Reader
For African use I would go with the 9,3x62, 375 or even a 416 Rem Mag.
In fact I think a 9,2x62 Blaser and a 400 H&H or 416 Blaser would make a great pair for Africa. If the recoil of the 416 was a bit much I would reload, or have Superior Ammo load me some 400 gr Wodleigh Softs and Solids at 2100fps, duplicating the GREAT 450/400.

D99
I think a Blaser Forum is a bad idea.
If we had our own forum the non believers would never see what we write about our GREAT rifles and our adventures with them. This way we are helping to spread the word, and enlightening the masses that you do not have to hunt with a rifle that you must crank the handle up and dowm like you are jacking up your car to change a flat.
Teaching them that you can get a "factory" rifle with a good trigger, a scope mount system without problems, a rifle that is accurate, feeds, extracts, and ejects, without 7 trips to the gunsmith.
Also a rifle you can change from a varmimt to an elephant gun, or even to a shotgun in less than 5 minutes.
Think about it. These AR people need our help.

While I love the Blaser for almost all hunting, for a DGR, I would rather have a double or a mauser.

The main reason I would rather have a mauser is I want something built like a tank.

I love Blasers but to me they are not DGR. I also love Ruger #1s, Remington M700s, and MkV Weatherbys, you won't see me with one of those stairing down a charging hippo or a ele.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Not sure why they put this into the R93, I guess it gives those Swiss hunters the ability to shoot a 10.3 in the same rifle they use for hunting in Poland and Hungary???????

That is correct, the 10.3x60R is almost exclusively shot în the Kanton of Graubünden in Switzerland - where it is the smallest, commercially available cartridge to meet the caliber requirement for big game hunting (chamois, red, roe etc). This is all historical, and practically nobody else buys 10.3x60R barrels. Since the rules specify a single shot rifle for hunting in Graubünden, the R93 is used with a block of wood in place of the magazine. Quite a setup.

I'd probably be blasé about the old 10.3x60R and its somewhat outdated ballistics, if it wasn't because I have seen how our very own "Collani" shoots his R93 in 10.3x60R - using mono-metal bullets he designed and put into manufacturing himself. His groups are downright scary, and for a big bore almost incredible, but he keeps churning them out...

For hunting abroad, as D99 surmises, Collani mostly switches to his .300 Wby barrel. If the way he shoots his 10.3x60R is anything to go by, the .300 Wby is bound to make him absolutely deadly at longer range too...

- mike

MHO,

I am fairly posative that Collani was in one of the old Blaser catalogs.

I am assuming that those disctricts are heavily populated and that's why they want people shooting this old warhorse, instead of a 300 Weatherby.

We have similar laws in populated areas of the states. Most of them regulate to pistol cartridge handguns, shotguns with slug, and blackpowder. Similar idea though.

blaser forum would kick ass

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
D99
I think a Blaser Forum is a bad idea.
If we had our own forum the non believers would never see what we write about our GREAT rifles and our adventures with them. This way we are helping to spread the word, and enlightening the masses that you do not have to hunt with a rifle that you must crank the handle up and dowm like you are jacking up your car to change a flat.
Teaching them that you can get a "factory" rifle with a good trigger, a scope mount system without problems, a rifle that is accurate, feeds, extracts, and ejects, without 7 trips to the gunsmith.
Also a rifle you can change from a varmimt to an elephant gun, or even to a shotgun in less than 5 minutes.
Think about it. These AR people need our help.

preach it brother!

Actually the main reason I bought my first Blaser a 300 Mag. is because it "breaks" down and would fit in the same size case as one of my double rifles for a hunt in AK.
Also that way none of my DRSS buddies would know I had a bolt rifle.

However, the more I used it the more I liked it. It is a great system.

The 10,3 is a standard contour. It is a great calibre, my barrel should be in the states shortly!

Aleko

Out of curiosity, I compared the free recoil of my 375 Blaser loaded with 350 gr at 2400 fps (68j) to what the 400 loaded with 400 gr at 2200 fps would be (73j).

Not much different.

My daughter had no problem with the 375 shooting warthogs.

Aleko,
Keep me posted on the 400 H&H bbls. If they are standard coutour I may have to have one, iron sights for sure.

I would like to see a Blaser forum to help dispel safety concerns about the R 93 that have been generated by hearsay, rumour, half-truths, and outright lies.

Kidding back and forth about a rifle is one thing. Spreading lies by a few individuals because of some personal agenda is another.

And, as it is, to sort things out you have to look into the African Hunting, Big Game Hunting, European Hunting, Gunsmithing, Reloading, etc. chat rooms hoping you've entered the right search words and parameters.

In fact, there is a very interesting thread in Reloading chatroom entitled "RE: WHEN DO THE CLASSIC PRESSURE SIGNS OCCUR - AT WHAT PSI?" The last four posts are especially enlightening.

Cheers.

RuarkReader, i have shot the 375H&H in a standard weight BBl, with no kickstop or porting, and it sure gets your attention! Not by any means unmanageable, but it moves around. the 9.3x62 on the other hand, is no worse than a 30-06, to me anyway. Sure it kicks a bit, but nowhere near as bad as the 375H&H. Closer to a 35 whelen.
For everything except following up wounded critters in thick jess, the 9.3 will do fine.
If you don't believe me, ask Ganyana.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Saeed says no to a Blaser forum. He says it would open it up to every other manufactuer to have there own forum as well.

D99, look on the positive side, at least all the people who hate Blasers will now still have to listen to, and bitch about, those of us who use them!
PM sent about the reflex sight.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

With all due respect to Saeed, it looks like there is a Blaser forum at blaserpro.com that was started in January. There is not much there yet and only 10 members, but I thought I'd pass along the information.

Cheers.

Thanks, RuarkReader, I shall have to go and check it out!
Anyone hear anymore about the "new" R93 triggers being shipped from Blaser? I just saw the first of them today, not as good as the old style ones.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Anyone hear anymore about the "new" R93 triggers being shipped from Blaser? I just saw the first of them today, not as good as the old style ones.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Dave, I have one of the new Blaser triggers, and thus far it has been a bit of a love/hate relationship. Let me explain... (bear with me)

When I initially saw the announcement, that Blaser was going to come out with a new trigger for the R93, I was all gung-ho. This may come as a surprise to all of you, who have happily used the R93 trigger thus far. I have to admit, the R93 is very shootable, and most of that praise goes to the trigger. However, the R93 trigger does not run with the best of the pack (like the Jewells etc), it is quite precise in its letoff, but there is too much movement (overtravel) after the letoff point. This is a complaint I have had with the R93 ever since I bought my first one in 1994 or so.

If you want to experience a perfect trigger, try the old Blaser K77 (precursor to K95). That trigger runs with the Jewells for first place, no doubt about it. Speak of breaking glass an no superfluous movement!

So when I saw an article about the new R93 trigger in a Swiss hunting magazine, I was all exited. As soon as possible, I contacted my Swiss Blaser dealer about the new trigger and possibly getting one installed. He was a bit peeved, because Blaser had explicitly sworn all the dealers to silence about the new development, and then the article in the magazine... In any event, I asked to be informed when a new trigger could be had, and a few months later we sent my rifle to Blaser for a retrofit.

It took a while (2-3 months, if memory serves) for the rifle to come back, but eventually it made it.... When the trigger had originally been announced, Blaser had talked of two trigger weights, 600 grams for Europe and about 1500 (I think it is) for Scandinavia, US and perhaps the rest of the World?? Apparently, there is some competitive rule set, that prescribes the heavier trigger pull?? But since my old R93 triggers are all set up around 600 grams, the lower of the new pulls sounded like it would fit the bill exactly. Btw, the switch to the new trigger was not exactly cheap. I'm not going to mention a price, lest you all laugh at me, but just say I could also have bought a Jewell for the money...

For those of you, who (like me) had hoped that the new R93 trigger would be the "Jewell for the R93", I'm sorry to say this was not the case. The new trigger STILL moves too much after the letoff to let it run with the absolute best. Sad but there it is.

Nevertheless, off to the range with the new toy, oh boy, oh boy... Next disappointment: the trigger was quite a bit heavier than my old R93 triggers, and certainly heavier than the trigger it had replaced. Grrrrrr. My dealer had informed me, that Blaser had had to back off the claim of the lower trigger pull weight of 600 gram, now lowest weight was 750 gram. I believe Blaser had to realize the trigger would not reliably reset below this level. He also claimed, my trigger could not be set lighter than what it currently was. So, I borrowed an electronic trigger pull gauge from our own StuC, and measured the trigger pull weight: 900-1000 gram! (not 600 and not 750 either!).

I do have to say, that Blaser reacted well when I complained to them about my trouble. They asked me to send the rifle back for adjustment of the new trigger, and they sent me an old R93 trigger with the 600 gram spring in place, in case I wanted to switch back (I had complained my original trigger had not been returned).

My rifle is currently at Blaser's, for what I hope is a retrofit to a pull weight of 750 gram. We shall see what transpires when it returns.

To round off this somewhat negative story, I will say this, though. Although I'm happy I did not immediately order the new trigger for all my (three) R93s, and although I'm not sure I can truthfully say the new trigger is worth the $$$, I do think the new trigger IS BETTER than the old trigger. The nuances are minute, and as I have stated above, both the new and the old triggers move too much after the letoff. But when you shoot the new trigger in a target environment (i.e. target shooting on the range), you can feel that the new trigger lets off more precisely than the old one. In the hunting fields, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference.

So there it is, my story thus far about the new R93 trigger...

- mike