P.S, if you are going to quote Bismark, it's 'Only a fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others'.
If your blaser was incorrectly chambered, why not send it back to the factory to get them to fix it? That's like saying 'ah, I have to hammer the bolt on my remchester shut, but never mind, I'll make do'.
Everyone, by now, should know that a blaser R93 has failed. The question is 'why did it fail'.
I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer. Was it an overloaded reload? Was it a bad rifle that got through quality control somehow? Is there a cover-up, in the fashion of Beretta, as with the Sakos and Tikkas?
If anyone knows, then feel free to let the rest of us in on the secret, so we can put an end to this niggling and get on with more constructive stuff, like exchanging info on reloading and hunting!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

Everyone, by now, should know that a blaser R93 has failed. The question is 'why did it fail'.
I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer. Was it an overloaded reload? Was it a bad rifle that got through quality control somehow? Is there a cover-up, in the fashion of Beretta, as with the Sakos and Tikkas?

Dave, a few facts as good as I remember them:
- Caliber .300 Weatherby Magnum
- Factory (Norma) ammunition
- The cartrigde fired not loaded with enough powder caused an secondary explosion effect with a pressure over 9000bar...
- Norma accepted the fault and paid for the accident

Best regards,

Erik

Sambar,
Thanks for the quote correction; I prefaced the quote with words "words to the effect" but didn't take time to look it up precisely, you obviously did, well done. (Pedant! )

Why didn't I send the Blaser back to get it fixed? Well, if you re-read my post you'll see that I did send it back. However, on a rifle whose very safety all hangs together on precision engineering, I felt that if they couldn't even cut a chamber right, why should I trust the rest of it? Told them to stick the rifle where the sun don't shine. Got my money back and bought a Sauer 202 [BIG steel lugs, steel bolt handle locking into a steel recess, bolt stop, steel reciever to direct gases away from face !!]
A year or so later, still seduced by just how neat the Blaser concept is -and therefore (stupidly) overlooking it's sins- I got an offroad Jagdmatch...you can read it in my original post. Wasn't happy with that one either, it went back to -and stayed at- the factory too. -got another Sauer 202!

No I haven't got any pics of the Springfields, but, remind me, in which half of the 20th Century did that incident occur?

As regards all failing bolts coming back; yes, ultimately all bolts could come back; the issue is the magnitude of the event that could cause such a failure.
A pierced primer or other rearward movement of gas through the mechanism will not unlock conventional bolt mechanisms......


I've ended on this subject, you like your R93; I shared my experiences of R93s, you don't agree. Good luck to you.

There has been a very similar discussion of the R93 "blow ups" in the Big Bore room at this site. This was a response of mine from that chat room:

I bought my Blaser before any of these accidents were reported, and get very concerned when I hear about design flaws of the R 93. I have repeatedly checked into the so-called *tons* of information out there. The following is from Lutz Moeller's site at deportivo.com/english:


"In a series of tests through DEVA (Deutsche Versuchs- und Prüfanstalt für Jagd- und Sportwaffen e.V.) measurements of the gas pressure were increased to almost 8.000 bar /
116.000 psi, whereby under this pressure there were no measured deformations to the outer contour of the chamber area in the barrel. There were also no seen deformations to the bolt head.

Without wanting to anticipate the results from the public prosecutors office and after examination we have concluded clearly the damage was caused through extreme overloaded gas pressure.
With consideration to the above mentioned DEVA examination, it is our opinion that the cause of this accident is without doubt due to the ammunition and cannot be related to the rifle."

The other sites listed earlier in this discussion that "detail" Blaser R 93 accidents aren't in English with a translation option, and Jim Shockey's site only says that accidents have been reported. Nearly all of what I've found pertains to the Blaser recall several years ago when a few R 93 trigger assemblies were made with a blued steel pin (which could possibly corrode and cause the rifle to fire when the manual cocker was activated) instead of a pin made of stainless steel.

I called SigArms, was sent postage-paid packing materials, sent my rifle off, and got my R 93 back in a little more than a week (it already had the stainless pin) plus an extended warranty. No big deal. It would have been irresponsible for Blaser not to have issued the recall and they handled the situation honestly and efficiently.

DEVA has shown that there are no measurable deformations to the R 93 chamber area or bolt head at pressures to 116,000 psi and no matter how you want to parse the language, the reported "blow-ups" deal with overpressures. How many other rifles, could withstand these extreme pressure overloads? Until I decide to chamber grenades or shoot with an obstructed barrel, I'll stay with my Blaser R 93.

Cheers.

Erik T,

Thanks for your recent post.

Does the investigation by DEVA in my post above sound connected to the Blaser accident you are referring to? I only ask because Norma doesn't factory load cartridges in .300 Weatherby Magnum according to Norma's website.

I have yet to find a detailed report of a factory loading responsible for a "blow-up" in an R 93.

I also ask because I'm shooting the 180 grain Norma Oryx factory loading in my Blaser R93 Synthetic chambered for .308 win. (fantastic stuff -- nearly clover leafs in the X ring at 100 yards).

I intend to shoot the Norma 286 grain Oryx factory loads when I add the 9.3 x 62 components to my Blaser.

But, I'd like to know the likelihood of Norma ammunition in these calibers generating chamber pressures exceeding 116,000 psi or if another bolt action could safely handle those pressures.

Cheers.

G'day, ErikT, thanks for that, SEE will wreck anything, I have just heard of another older blaser in N.Z, which has blown a BBL. I'll look into it and get back to the thread.
Brown dog, Sorryif I snapped at you, Bad day here. No I didn't look up the Bismark quote, It was drummed into me in the Army. You have no idea how many push-ups it took! The sauer 202 is a good rifle, but suffers from a lot of the problems of the blaser, ie, overpriced for what it is.
I have sent PMs to some of the others who have posted on this topic, it would seem to be more to this than is appearent. I will continue to investigate this.
The Springfields were all part of ONE batch which got through quality control at the arsenal, with brittle receivers. quite a few people injured before the fault was discovered.
As usual.

Cheers, Dave. (part time curmudgeon)
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Sambar,
Thanks for that.
Aussie Army forced to learn Bismarck quotes? Crikey!
What Branch / Arm were (are) you? I got back from Iraq around 7 weeks ago having worked closely with many of the "AATT Iraq" Officers. -Without exception, excellent blokes.

If you think Bismark was bad, wait till you get this one, from the sniper course. "what was the name of the french marksman who shot Nelson at the battle of Trafalgar?" start doing pushups until you get it right. And no Googling!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

quote:

Originally posted by RuarkReader:
Erik T,

Thanks for your recent post.

Does the investigation by DEVA in my post above sound connected to the Blaser accident you are referring to? I only ask because Norma doesn't factory load cartridges in .300 Weatherby Magnum according to Norma's website.

I have yet to find a detailed report of a factory loading responsible for a "blow-up" in an R 93.

I also ask because I'm shooting the 180 grain Norma Oryx factory loading in my Blaser R93 Synthetic chambered for .308 win. (fantastic stuff -- nearly clover leafs in the X ring at 100 yards).

I intend to shoot the Norma 286 grain Oryx factory loads when I add the 9.3 x 62 components to my Blaser.

But, I'd like to know the likelihood of Norma ammunition in these calibers generating chamber pressures exceeding 116,000 psi or if another bolt action could safely handle those pressures.

Cheers.

RuarkReader,

Norma is the toll-producer for ALL Weatherby ammunition - Weatherby just brands it!

But I would not be worried - any standard calibers like .308 or 9.3x62 (which I am also shooting ) are safe!

Best regards

Erik

I find it funny how many thousands of rounds I have fired through a Blaser since 1995, and never experienced any problems! I know there are about 80 or so empty boxes of Weatherby brass, all Norma loaded factory ammunition and never even had sticky extraction.

Aleko

Aleko, I ordered some 275, and 250 grainers for the 338. I am hoping these will produce a better group.

I was shooting 225s last when the rifle was shooting 1.75 for 3.

I'll be home on the 1st of October. If your still up for it, I think we are going to whack a fallow and a few mouflon at that place in Idaho. Did you ever go?

quote:

Originally posted by RuarkReader:
Erik T,

Thanks for your recent post.

Does the investigation by DEVA in my post above sound connected to the Blaser accident you are referring to? I only ask because Norma doesn't factory load cartridges in .300 Weatherby Magnum according to Norma's website.

I have yet to find a detailed report of a factory loading responsible for a "blow-up" in an R 93.

I also ask because I'm shooting the 180 grain Norma Oryx factory loading in my Blaser R93 Synthetic chambered for .308 win. (fantastic stuff -- nearly clover leafs in the X ring at 100 yards).

I intend to shoot the Norma 286 grain Oryx factory loads when I add the 9.3 x 62 components to my Blaser.

But, I'd like to know the likelihood of Norma ammunition in these calibers generating chamber pressures exceeding 116,000 psi or if another bolt action could safely handle those pressures.

Cheers.

Ruark Reader - Check that you have the right size rubber insert that fits into the front of the mag well for the 9.3x62 - mine was too small and the cartridges moved forward under recoil - bang, bang, click as the base of the bottom cartridge dipped down so the bolt failed to pick it up. I change inserts between 308 and 9.3x62. Altho I still use my Blasers I wasn't very happy with the factory response when I pointed out the initial problem, especially as I could potentially have been using the rifle on dangerous game. However, any rifle needs sorting, EVEN Blasers! Charlie.

Erik T. & cducat,

Thanks for your replies. They have been very much appreciated.

I think Weatherby chose the right ammo to put their name on, and after a bit research, I'm not too concerned about secondary explosion effects -- life is too short and shooting is too fun!

I intend to use the 9.3x62 caliber on moose and brown bear as well as gemsbok, kudu, sable, leopard, and cape buffalo.

(There, I put it in writing and now it HAS to be done.)

Cheers.

I think the blaser is an interesting rifle, one thing I find going for it is the scope is attached to the barrel, this pretty much eliminates any bedding issues. It should also make the rifle a little more repeatable and less susceptable to outside changes. The only thing I don't like is the expense, I think they should try to get the new basic models down to around $1000-1200. I also don't like the fact barrels are $600+ I can buy and entire rifle for that and in many cases complete with optics

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
I think the blaser is an interesting rifle, one thing I find going for it is the scope is attached to the barrel, this pretty much eliminates any bedding issues. It should also make the rifle a little more repeatable and less susceptable to outside changes. The only thing I don't like is the expense, I think they should try to get the new basic models down to around $1000-1200. I also don't like the fact barrels are $600+ I can buy and entire rifle for that and in many cases complete with optics

cummins but what are you getting for your money? $600 worth of craftsmanship or $600 worth of shit? If barrels were finished by another means, they could be a little cheaper. Titanium Nitride isn't a cheap system to buy into.

cummins cowboy,

I wish the Blaser R 93 was less expensive also!

However, you might want to keep in mind the advantages of a switch-barrel system. Without getting too political, I bought mine at a time when "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" was (and still is) in dispute.

Cheers.

.

D99, we are waiting for the pigs to go in season, he just finished his count the other day.

Blasers are expensive, but think about getting the right mounts, bedding, trigger job, recrown, that eats up fast too on a conventional rifle

Aleko

G'day, Aleko, check my PM about the 45 blaser brass.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

Got the PM and Thank you! Just ordered 2 new barrels an 8x64 and 8x57mm

Aleko

Aleko is a tease, he knows I have a thing for 9.3 and 8mm barrels. He also knows I am moving and can't risk spending money I am going to need to set up house in Italy on more Blaser stuff.

Still he taunts me by flaunting his 8mm barrels. I can't take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheer up D99, with the money you save on your deer hunt down under, you may just be able to afford that nice new 8mm BBL......

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

I have Blaser fever. Catch it!

There is alot to be said for the 8mm bore diameter. I have been shooting my 30 06 alot as of late and the 6,5x55 SE. The 8 x68 is a favourite of mine, but the 8x64 barrel may need to be added to my collection

Aleko

Just to add to the Blaser fever out there.

I've been reading some intriguing things about the .400 H&H Magnum -- carries the muzzle energy of the .375 H&H out to 100 yards, very accurate, and less recoil than the .416 Rem. Magnum. Sounds like a good cartridge for lighter weight rifles like the R93. Blaser says it may add the .400 H&H to its lineup in 2006.

Any thoughts from Blaser fans?

Cheers.

aleko, why do you wanna shoot the 30-06, when you have a perfectly accurate 7.5 swiss barrel to shoot.

The 30 06 is one of my favourties, just nostalgic I suppose, I have hunted with one so much it is tough for me not to have a Blaser barrel in that calibre. My 7,5x55 is splendidly accurate, just I have been training some young kids to shoot with the reduced recoil 30 06 ammo.

Aleko

WTF? A 400 H&H in a R93? I'll take it!

quote:

Originally posted by RuarkReader:
Just to add to the Blaser fever out there.

I've been reading some intriguing things about the .400 H&H Magnum -- carries the muzzle energy of the .375 H&H out to 100 yards, very accurate, and less recoil than the .416 Rem. Magnum. Sounds like a good cartridge for lighter weight rifles like the R93. Blaser says it may add the .400 H&H to its lineup in 2006.

Any thoughts from Blaser fans?

Cheers.

400 H&H? Sounds good, might be worth looking into. What are the relative energy levels Vs the 416Rem?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

D99,

I thought that might peak your interest.

I received the following e-mail (my deletions have been added for privacy) from Blaser earlier this week:

"Dear Mr. XXXXXX,

Thank you for your email and your interest in our products. There are plans for .400 H&H Magnum in our Blaser R 93 line up; I assume the decision will be taken in 2006.

Best regards,
XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX"


Cheers.

I have 4 rifles in 30-06, but that doesn't mean I don't lust for a 8x64, and 8x57, and 7.5x55.

The aquisition of new rifles and calibers is certainly expensive, I wonder if there is a 12 step program.

There are no strip clubs in Sicily, so at least part of my salary will be safe!

G'day Sambar 9.3,

I haven't got figures for the .416 Rem. Mag. handy, but energy(foot-pounds)/velocity(fps) figures for the .400 H&H with a 400 grain bullet look like this at 0, 50, 100, 150, & 200 yards:

5,011/2,375; 4,565/2,253; 4,125/2,157; 3,735/2,049; 3,365/1,947

An interesting article for the .400 H&H Magnum was done in the African Hunter magazine. You can read this article on-line at african-hunter.com -> Safari Archives -> The Firearm Files -> Holland's New cartridges (near the lower left corner of the page).

Cheers.

Would the barrel be a Standard contour?

Aleko

I just looked at the round, and the ballistics. I think they would fit in a standard contour barrel. Has anyone used a .400H&H


Aleko

D99,

I just checked out the photos from your hunt in Namibia -- especially enjoyed those of the kudu and gemsbok.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by RuarkReader:
D99,

I just checked out the photos from your hunt in Namibia -- especially enjoyed those of the kudu and gemsbok.
Cheers.

Glad you liked them, that was an interesting first safari. It wasn't the Africa I wanted it to be, but I had a good time. Next time I want to hunt someplace over 50,000 hectares. This was 7 ranches and combined they were closet to that but it's still 7 ranches.

D99
Contact http://www.hhksafaris.com
They hunt Zimbabwe. I hunted 21 days with them June 2004.

Aleko
I would guess it will be in the Safari contour.
My question is... Will they make a 465 H&H. THAT would be the one I would want.
[Don't know why????]

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
The question is 'why did it fail'.

The question is not why the couple of R93s failed. We know why most of them failed. The question is "what happens when they fail", and "why can it happen this way". This, and principally this, is the point where the legitimate criticism of the R93's design enters.

Carcano