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| One of Us |
I just got the latest issue of Rifle Shooter. There is an article by Sam Fadala called "Happy Birthday .30-06" He has the audacity to post a picture of a Cape buffalo he shot with a 30-06 right there on page 63.Says he got permission from the game commission to do so . Says he got 40" of penetration with a Barnes 220 grain solid at 50 meters.Calls his rifle "Mr. Clean Sweep" Can you believe it , no 700 nitro express with attached grenade launcher , no 505 Gibbs with RPG backup. Next thing you know some damn fool will try it with a 45-70 then all hell will break loose. | ||
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Good for Sam. Bob Brister shot a Cape buffalo once with a shotgun slug. | |||
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Years ago, a now deceased pal of mine, Harry Lawson (yes, the rifle builder) showed me the heads of several Cape Buffalo he had dispatched with a 30-06. No novice he.....but not for everyone.  "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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In my opinion, the better constructed bullets and the better powders of today have changed all the rules about what you can really do with proper shot placement on big animals. What may well have been needed in times (caliber wise) gone by do not hold all that true today. As always, a bad shot or missed shot with any caliber is just that. A proper placed bullet with the better constructed bullets of today should result in critters on the ground killed by lesser caliber bullet than of yesteryear. I am not suggesting 22 caliber on buffalo but I would think in the proper hands that anything 30 caliber and up should "getterdone". You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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So what? Through the eyeball and the eye socket, down the path of the optic nerve and into the brain with a .22 caliber long rifle bullet will work just fine, too, on a buff, at really close range. That choice does not leave much margin for error though, which is precisely the point. Nothing done stupidly, but nonetheless, and despite the odds, successfully, merits repeating by even the most skilled practitioner, especially not ad infinitum. Read my signature line, which, by the way, was penned by John Taylor about the foremost champion of the small bore on dangerous game, W.D.M. Bell. Ah, but you say--and you would be correct in so saying--Karamojo Bell was never forced to pay the price for his audacity, or as some would suggest, for his wrongheadedness. Again, so what? Do you feel that good and that lucky? Let us not forget that the great Karamojo was a superb marksman who never pushed his luck, but made his money very quickly, in relative terms, and managed to quit the game of elephant hunting while he was ahead. That made him smart, and he was of course undeniably good at what he did, and no doubt very lucky besides. But that certainly did NOT make him, and neither does it make any of the other small bore advocates who have followed his line of thought, correct in their preference for smaller or lighter or otherwise underpowered calibers for dangerous game. Others are free to disagree and take whatever chances they can afford. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Basically anything within reason will kill the cape. The question is who is the hunter willing to try with a pee shooter, how close can he get, how good a shooter, and more importantly, how long will it take in most circumstances for the beast to (bleed out and die) or will it die weeks later from wound infection or similar !! You can shoot the beast with a .243 and run up the nearest tree and sit back and wait and wait and wait. Or use a broadhead arrow, or a blackpowder rifle or whatever weopan of choice essentially BUT just remember if you want to be a KOSHER legal hunter then use .375 and upwards and dont mess with the rules Cheers, Peter | |||
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| Moderator |
or you may find yourself in a PICKEL if you don't!  | |||
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Sorry, maybe I do not remember well, but E. Hemingway, in his book Green Hills of Africa, if I remember well is described a buffalo knock down made with a 30-06. Not his usual rifle for buffalo but .... bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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I vaguely remember a hunt report somewhere on AR about an Aussie Buff cull where the write's partner was using a 6.5 Sweedish Mauser to great effect. Are the animals at all comparable? Rgds, FB | |||
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Recently I received a communique from a friend and client, Jesus Yuren, from Mexico which contains the following excerpt... "At worst, in a safari in Zambia I was shooting buffs (for locals meat) with a 30-06 with 220 grains solid slugs. Believe it or not I had not any major problem but I was very careful with my shooting." I"ve used 220 Hornady solids in my .30-06 on Hippo. They penetrate like a drill. RIch Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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I thought it a good idea to repeat the above! It seems to me to be the thoughts of a sane man, that bear reading again!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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T. | |||
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| Administrator |
Gentlemen, As I have mentioned here on several occasions, I have been loading 308 Winchester ammo with 175 grain solids for a friend who has been using them on buffalo for years. | |||
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I know that 30 06 and 303 Brit with solids as used by game rangers on elephant and buff culls many years ago. The important thing to remember is that they had all the experiance they needed and the b&lls to put the shot where it counted most. Gerhard Gerhard FFF Safaris Capture Your African Moments Hunting Outfitter (MP&LP) Proffesional Hunter (MP&LP) History guide Wildlife Photographer www.fffsafaris.co.za | |||
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As I understand it, you probably have the most hunting experience here. I am very curious as to what you have found. Which bullets exactly? Sierra Match Kings? And at what muzzle velocity? Can you give us the loading info? ___________________________________________________________________________________________ | |||
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All is know is that I have shot lots of "stuff" with Armour Piercing 30/06..never a live critter except for turkey and they will go thru very large tree trunks, telephone poles, break large rocks in canyon bottoms etc. I don't see why a buff would not go down to one of those. I am not talking shooting them for a zillion yards away. I have only killed one buffalo to date but I still think I could have done the same with my '06 and the proper designed bullet. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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| Administrator |
It was not me who used this on buffalo. It is a friend who lives in Africa. Bullets have been of different manufacturers, but all have been FMJ. | |||
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I understood that. What I am interested is that what you have said it appears to be another testimonial for the .30 calibers on DG. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ | |||
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hi rich those 220 grain hornadys have been out of market for years. where do you buy them. i own i box of steel jacket woodleigh solids. i wonder if they are as good as old hornadys? regards yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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| one of us |
I've got about a half box left. Last ones I bought in 1982. If the Woodliegh's are steel jacketed ( pass the magnet test) and lead cored they are probably about the same. I was looking over the new .416 Rigby load at the Hornady booth in Dallas. The young fellow in the booth came over and we chatted a bit. When I mentioned the old Hornady solids he thought I meant the mono' predecessor to their current mono' bullet. I mentioned the magnet test and he was blank. Damn I'm getting mature! (Greek for old) Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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hi i've magnet tested the woodleighs and are positive . these are steel jacketed. I whish ammo makers begin to make Rn solid bullet in all the medium bores like 6,5 270 7mm 30 and 8mm. these bulles are excellent for meat hunting on lesser animals and can down large animals with head shot. regards yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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Now hold on just 1 second! A 30-06 with 220 gr soilds is perfectly capable of killing a cape buffalo with taking ethical well placed vital shots. While some would like you to believe a 540 gr .458 tungsten bullet @ 1550 FPS is a stunt hunters folly  I think some posters here are more interested in trying to impress others with their $30,000 DBL than their common sense. | |||
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Go Away | |||
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 ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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| one of us |
I do not agree that modern bullets and powders have changed all the rules about large game with smaller calibers. I do not think MV's are much more today than say, in 1910, and many very, very good bullets were around then, especially in the solids. A deceased friend of mine never bought any meat, but fed his family year round on game that he shot using only a .22 LR, mostly at night with a spotlight. He often said a 22 was just fine for hunting, and for him, it was. Saying something can be done, or has been done, is completely different than arguing that it should be done. Hunting cape buffalo with a 30-06 should not be done. | |||
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The copperclad steel jacket material hasn't been available for some time and Hornady went to making .375, .416, and .458 solids with all copper jackets some time in the very late 90's. Not sure when the 220 FMJs were deleted as I've never seen any.....as far as I know woodleigh is the only MFR of 30 cal solids today. When it comes to killing the Cape Buff I'm going to listen to the guys right here that have been there.....I'm still in the .375 and bigger ring. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, A-Square makes their Monolithic solid in both 220 and 180 gr. in 30 caliber. | |||
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| one of us |
I don't understand some people's obsession with this particular cartridge. There's a better choice for every game animal I can imagine. | |||
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| One of Us |
This is true but for folks like me that are reducing the number of guns we own from 40 to 6 this cartridge is extremely difficult to ignore..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
This thread reminds me of an eskimo somewhere in Alaska...he used a 222 for hunting polar bears. He had killed a lot of them with that old Remington rifle and his epitath on his tombstone said so as he tried unsuccessfully to kill the last one. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
I kind of agree. It is obviously an effective cartridge but when it comes down to purchasing a rifle, I just always thought there was something better for my application. However, if I can ever run across a nice original Pre 64 Winchester, in 30-06, at a reasonable price, I would buy it very quickly....That's the one I would want! | |||
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| One of Us |
I have the highest respect for the legendary abilities of the late William Dalrymple Maitlain Bell, DSO. There can never be a duplication of that record on big critters with attitude. Apparently he didn't like heavy recoil. I intend to kill a cape buffalo this December, my first. Having not spent months in the Lado Enclave perfecting my pin point shooting, I'm going to use all the help I can get, .375 H&H with 300 grain Swift A Frames and I'll carry along a handful of Sledgehammer solids. My partner has a .416 Rigby. I have no doubt that old 30 caliber 1906 with heavy for twist bullets will kill anything, but I want to see fur on the ground DRT (dead right there) ASAP. If I have to I can track pretty damn good on fresh snow, but I figure I'd have a snowball's chance in Tanzania on M'bogo. | |||
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Woodleigh is currently manufacturing a 240 grain PP, not a solid, for the 06 with a .361 SD. I would assume most folks here know about it but did not see it mentioned. Below is a link: http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/images/Woodleigh%20B...02006%20(insert).pdf | |||
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| one of us |
Joe, Your argument makes a lot of sense but then how do you account for the guys that want to go and kill a Buff with a Bow? Personally I'd say they are a few sandwiches short of a picnick but then whatever flicks their switch... I see it as horses for courses. People still get charged/killed by DG every year when using big bores. Now I've never shot a buff (or any DG for that matter) so I don't claim to be an expert but I rekon that if you can hit a charging bull in the head with a .30 calibre it will do the same thing as hitting it with a 375+. Like I say I'm no expert but if my assumption that shots at charging animals need to take out the CNS, in order to be effective, then I'd be happier shooting the rifle that I shoot well all day long, if it is equipped with a suitable bullet. JMHO, FB | |||
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Have you not been listening?  Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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| one of us |
________ Good point, Saeed and well said. Needed to be said, even. About time and face the people!! By comparison and one near better, I killed one once (maybe it was thrice) just by shooting the sh*t. Can you believe it? I have to admit,,,,,it was reloads and hot ones, too. Had to hit'm twice to make the sh*t stick, you understand. DB | |||
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Chugach, Respectfully, 'now hold on' and uncommon sense aside, me thinks not. But it's your call and it's your Safari, your bucks, yo $. It's also your ass. Bring your .06 and go get'em with that "well placed shot" that you speak of. Heh, heh. Yea. Well placed shot. I've seen Whitetails run for near a mile with that same shot. My bad. Be sure and know what your PH is-a-packin. Bet it ain't an .06 nor will it be that venerable Buffalo killer - the "Hot .308 w/175 grain solids'. Saeed will load you a few, eh, Bro? Africa is calling. Good luck and you win this discussion. DB | |||
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In reading the hunting literature, I've gotten the impression there is little doubt a .30-06 can reliably deliver a lethal wound to any land animal. The literature is also clear that to stop in short order the biggest animals with any level of certainty, you need at least 40 caliber and preferrably more, say a 50. There's no guarentee the big bore will stop the animal, but the odds are better. The .30-06 is adequate for stalking DG, but not for dealing with alert or wounded DG. At least that's how I read it... | |||
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Waaaait a minute. I never said shooting buffalo with 220 solids in a .30-06 was the thing to do...only that it can be (and has been) done. Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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Rich, I have a box of those old Hornady solids. If you want them you can have them, kind of neat to think of them being used now and then. I think an 06 on buff should only count if it was used in a Win 95 levergun! | |||
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