What do you guys think is the ideal battery if one is pursuing lion, leopard, and two buff on a 21 day hunt?

I usually like to bring a .338, but in the case above, I think a .416 and a .375 would be ideal. Problem is, right now I don't have the .375 (I know, if I was in confession the priest would make me say 100 hail mary's).

Also, what do you guys think of cancelled hunts? this year there were three of them (21 day cancellations). I just didn't feel prepared, and as MS AZW said, I would rather you spend the extra money and be prepared than go off rushing.

But the savings are huge...

Ideal 21 day battery:

1. Double in .500 or .470

2. bolt gun in 9.3 x 62 or .375

That way the bolt gun can serve as the DGR in case a tracker drives over my double with the Toyota.

If you are not a double man, I would substite a .458 Lott (or a .416 if you must) for the double.

But the result of that either rifle can handle the DG, but the lighter of the 2 does not have much recoil. In the case of the 9.3, the recoil is on par with a heavy load in a 30-06.

Just my opine.

A 21 day safari is only a dream but I agree ith 500grains suggestions :

Double in .450 for me; and

A bolt action in .375 H&H.

Preferably also a set of shotgun barrels to go with the double rifle as well.

If no double a .416 and a .300 (or similar eg a .338). Go for it!

All you need is a 416 and a .375. Either one will work for everything if one fails.

Where's the hunt? If it is in Masailand, I would take a .416 and a .300 mag.

Regards,

Terry

I have had wet dreams of hunting in Africa for 21 days with a matching pair of .300 H&H and .375 H&H. Both mauser type rifles with nice walnut, rust blue barrels with quarter ribs and .........

I haven´t hunted leopard, lion or buff so I´m relying on what different PH´s have told me: The .338 is perfect for leopard and lion and the .416 is great for buff (but also for lion with a lion load).

So save the money and go with what you have.

For myself, I would like a double in .500 and a .375 bolt gun or a .416 bolt gun if there was more heavy game than plains game it would be the .416 Rigby and a .500 nitro double (I do not have a double but would like one one day and if I got to Africa for 21 days that would be my ideal set up).

I go with has worked in the past for many others and my self. A .416 bolt with a low powered scope, you never can be over gunned in Africa,and my .470 double. Many do not own doubles because of their cost and todays "modern" mind set. Your .338 would do a nice job on Leps, and Lion, taking care to use a bullet of proper construction for each animal. The .416 has been the mainstay in bolt guns for years as made famous by Harry Selby, and others, and has taken all of the so called "Big Five" with proper bullets and shot placement. As for cancelled hunts, when your ready you will know. Jumping into a cancelled hunt, and not being sure of your self is not wise. On the other end of the spectrum if you wait and keep passing up the savings on these hunts you may never go. You and only you can make that decision, dont let anyone push you into it, after all these animals play for keeps. On another note not aimed at anyone. The one thing that drives me up the wall is people who keep repeating " the P.H. is there to back me up with his heavy rifle(s)" That may be so, but it is the hunters first and foremost job to kill the animal quickly and cleanly,not relying on others to clean up his shoody shooting, or lack of caliber and or bullet weight because he cant shoot the one he needs at this point in time. While i am on my soap box i might as well get this off of my chest. Anyone who spends the time and money and does not know the animals anatomy he or she is hunting should stay home and take up another sport like sewing or birdwatching. I have had the pleasure to hunt with some of the finest men i have ever met,they dont get rich doing this, they just love it in a way most of us will never understand. To put one of them in harms way because of the the above reasons is a crime. Thats what i think. Charlie

I'm taking a 470, 375, and 300wm. If that works, since this will be my first 21-day, I'll let you know. I could possibly get along without the 300, but since my son will be with me, it will be easy to have the 3rd gun in tow and it can make a nice backup as well as a good choice for plains game.

Spring,

If that doesn't work it will only be because you didn't do something right. Not sure if wm means Winchester or Weatherby, but it doesn't matter if you use good bullets any of the .300's will do their jobs.

I've gone with a .300 Win. Mag. and a .458 Win. Mag. for a 21-day safari. It was a good enough battery, but the .300 ended up being the real workhorse, and a good one it was. I'm not going to hunt with a .458 Win. Mag. anymore.

I'm currently into the .338 Win. Mag. and .416 Rem. Mag. as my ideal rifle duo for safaris that will provide a lot of plainsgame, as well as buff, etc. I'm taking this tandem to Tanzania this season.

AD

Allen,
That's interesting to hear that you used your 300 so much. For most plains game, it's all you need, but initially I was only going to take my bigger guns, but have decided to include my 300 win mag in this year's trip. The amount that you ended up using yours is of interest because it may impact the number of bullets I'll take for each gun.
For the 3 guns you took, how many for each did you take and how many did you need?

Given that all of your animals are dangerous game, each of my two choices would be able of handling dangerous game. For the lighter gun I'd pick something in the 9.3x62 to .375 H&H class, and for the heavier gun I'd start with the .416s and pick the most powerful one I could handle. In all cases you may have to be the one to stop a charge by a wounded animal, so keep that in mind.

My ideal battery for a 21 day hunt in Tanzania, would be a .416 (Rigby or Remington) and a 30-06 Springfield. IF I would spring for the permit cost for one more rifle...(I believe your allowed three in Tanz) it would be a .375H&H. In my mind, the .416 is perfect for buff, the .375 H&H for lion and the '06 for leopard...but you know how that works. You're checking a lion bait with the .375 in your mitts and there is a big male leopard tugging on your lion bait. I'm not heading back to the 'cruiser for the '06 I'm blasting him with what I've got! So much for the perfect rifle theory.

John,

For the scenario you laid out a 375 with perhaps a 1.75x6 scope would do the whole thing easily. The combo you described as what you had taken before may argueably be the best of all worlds. The 416 with a low power variable will be excellent on buffalo and the 338 with a good scope will do everything else. I personally see no reason for open sighted cannons unless that in itself adds a lot to your personal experience.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

What do you guys think is the ideal battery if one is pursuing lion, leopard, and two buff on a 21 day hunt?

Since Lion and Buff are on the menu Elephants are probably present also. I am a firm believer in never carrying a rifle to hunt with on a guided hunt that I wouldn't carry if I was hunting alone. I also like the more traditional calibers and rifles.

I would take a .577 3 inch for following wounded game. A 450/470 class for hunting Buff and carrying when Ele and Buff are near. A .375 flanged with 2.5 scope for plainsgame and such.

I would of course wear a Crimson Beret and have my monocle handy for tracking.

I would take a 375 and a 416. I would take softs and solids for both. If either went haywire, you would be covered. I think 3 guns is a lot of trouble. Half the time when I take two I get disgusted and leave the light in camp and just carry the 375. I might even consider an enhanced 375 [Weatherby or Dakota] and a spare scope and be done with it. It's a grat problem to have!

I took a 416 Rigby and 375 H&H to Tanzania last year. I think it's good to have 2 guns that can handle dangerous game. You never know when your zebra hunt may turn into a buffalo hunt or you may stumble into a hippo along the river etc., etc. My point is I want a rifle that can handle any situation that may develop (the PH may not be able to always save your bacon).

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
I'm taking a 470, 375, and 300wm. If that works, since this will be my first 21-day, I'll let you know. I could possibly get along without the 300, but since my son will be with me, it will be easy to have the 3rd gun in tow and it can make a nice backup as well as a good choice for plains game.

Vic, good luck and as always good hunting. How old is you son? is this his first one?? Charlie

Spring, my .458 Win. Mag. developed a problem after use on one zebra, one buffalo, and one hippo. So I used the .300 Win. Mag. for everything else, including two buffalo, lion, leopard, and all plainsgame from Kirk's dik dik to Patterson's eland. Everything went down to one shot, and I used Winchester 180 gr. Fail-Safe ammo exclusively.

I've used the .300 Win. Mag. on a few other safaris as well, and I've had about the same results, only I've been using 180 gr. Nosler Partitions in recent years. There is some weird notion afloat in some circles that anything less than a .375 H&H bounces off most African plainsgame animals, and after scores and scores of animals in the salt with the .300, I have to say such notions are pure b.s. I see the .375 H&H as either fish nor foul (yes, I've used it quite a bit), and the .416s and .458s as specialized dangerous game rifles.

Any good elk-type rifle from .30-06 to .338 Win. Mag. makes a perfect plainsgame rifle, even for eland, and that is the true workhorse rifle of most safaris -- not .375s, .416s, and .458s. If I had to rely on some heavy, hard-kicking .416 or .458 for every whitetail-size antelope as well as buffalo, I'd quit hunting.

AD

Thanks, Charlie, and yes, this will be his first safari. He's 19 but I think I have been planning this hunt with him since he was about 3! He's a very experienced hunter for his age and getting back together with him like this after his first year off at college has me counting down the days (57)....

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Spring, my .458 Win. Mag. developed a problem after use on one zebra, one buffalo, and one hippo.

AD

Allen, may I ask the manufacturer of that .458? Thank you.

My wife and I did a 21 day safari in zimbabwe and the only rifle I took was an old sako A3 .375. Killed good elephant lion leopard and buffalo. Also shot assorted plainsgame and bait animals. If it broke our ph had a backup in camp as most do. The scope was a 1 3/4X 6 leopold.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:

Any good elk-type rifle from .30-06 to .338 Win. Mag. makes a perfect plainsgame rifle, even for eland, and that is the true workhorse rifle of most safaris -- not .375s, .416s, and .458s. If I had to rely on some heavy, hard-kicking .416 or .458 for every whitetail-size antelope as well as buffalo, I'd quit hunting.

AD

Allen

Which is why so many guys like the .375. It is a bridge between the .300 class and the .416 class. Maybe not ideal for either but that is the nature of "averages".

Not an argument, just a comment.

500grs., the problem .458 began with a problem M70 custom job in .416 Rem. I had built by a Tucson gunmaker. To keep suspicion away from the guiltless, it was NOT David Miller, Harry Lawson, or Frank Wells.

Anyhow, this .416 was pretty, but it was also a turkey. It didn't feed properly at all, the open sights were canted, and the trigger wasn't right. I sent it back for rework, and it came back worse than before. Frustrated, and with not much time remaining before safari, I bought a Model 70 Super Express in .458 Win. Mag. and took it to a fairly good local riflesmith for modification, bedding, the works.

At the range, this rifle shot very well, and it fed very well. Everything seemed right, and I put over 200 rounds through it before the hunt. When I shot a hippo, this rifle began to act up. When the hippo went down, I worked the action hard and fast for a reload, and the rifle slam-fired. The PH asked me what was up, so we worked with the rifle and got it to slam-fire two more times! The trigger was set too light for real hunting. It was fine at the range, but not the bush. Stupidly, I didn't have any tools along to reset the trigger pull, so we couldn't trust that .458 for the balance of the safari.

And guys wonder why I've hired Echols to build my rifles for the last six years.............

AD

Allen,

Sorry to hear about your problems with some custom and factory rifles. I had a M70 that slam fired on a hunt, but being a paranoic person, I had a full screwdriver set, pliers, and a Leatherman tool with me. So the fix was easy.

And I agree with the view that it is cheaper to pay top dollar for a top quality product than to cut corners and use stuff that is mid-priced or low-priced.

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
Thanks, Charlie, and yes, this will be his first safari. He's 19 but I think I have been planning this hunt with him since he was about 3! He's a very experienced hunter for his age and getting back together with him like this after his first year off at college has me counting down the days (57)....

Vic, thats great, he will never forget the very first one. I hope all things go well with the hunt. Charlie

For me, it's been a 270 win and a 375 H&H; in the future, I would go heavier; likely a 300 or 338 win mag and a 416 rem mag.

The .416 & .338 would make an excellent pair, why change? Your .416 is an excellent Elephant caliber as well as Buffalo, certainly more than enough for Lion. The .338 would be heavy medicine for Leopard and all PG. I shot my last Leopard with a .280 with no problems; the client with me shot his Leopard with a 7mm mag. I'd be happy with your pair as is. LDK

My ideal battery for a 21 day safari, would be the classic three rifle light, medium and heavy. But that is probably too many rifles for one person to carry through airports, etc. If you are traveling with a companion as I do (my wife), then it's no problem at all.

The classic 458, 375, and 30 (calibers) battery has already been proven by many safari goers before us as an ideal three rifle choice. I have taken it myself. However, last year I took one I enjoyed even more: 404 Jeffey, 35 Whelen, and 7mm RM. Battery choices are very personal, and there is no 'perfect' battery (within reason), as we are all are different in sizes, weights, recoil tolerances, hunting different animals, etc. The chosen rifles must be capable of their intended jobs of course, but we have so many overlapping calibers to choose from, that it is a delightful exercise to find the 'perfect' battery for ourselves, if not for anyone else.

For my last two safaris in Zambia, I took two rifles in 2014 and three rifles in 2015. I really like the 416 & 338 combo and I think it is super versatile. However, I chose a 404J & 338WM (close) in 2014, and the three rifle battery mentioned above for 2015. I was hunting Buffalo both times and Leopard on the last one, with PG thrown into both.

If it were just me, and I had your rifles, I think I'd probably agree with the advice already given and just take the 416 and 338. It should handle all of the animals you have named on your wish list quite well.
But I'm not you, or anyone else on this forum.

You've received a lot of good advice here already from the AR members. Good luck and have fun deciding on YOUR choice!

.375 and a .300 are perfect, but as noted any DG Caliber you are comfortable with.
I love the .300 and have taken many,many PG animals with it.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned though!..take a breakdown .12 GA for birds!
I now always take a shotgun on safari. It's super fun to take Francolin, and Guinea Fowl, or Geese/sandgrouse.
On a 21 day safari there will be plenty of time to have a couple of fun shoots while exploring, etc.

My ideal battery for such a hunt would be---and was the last time I went--a .375 H&H Model 70 and nothing else, with only 300 grain bullets. Softs and solids. Scope in Talley quick detachable mounts with iron sights sighted in. Scope was a Burris 1.5-6X with an illuminated dot for low light shooting at cats.

Old thread and my view has changed over ten + years, especially on light rifles. Of course it depends on your target species. If it was elephant, I'd stick with two large or medium bores. But if you are hunting a significant amount of plains game, you might want to consider a lighter rifle. (I always use detachable rings and spare scopes for both).

I used to carry a .416 Rem. and a .375 H&H, but after two safaris, I realized the last time I picked up the .375 was on sight-in day. Then I tried a .300 WSM as a light rifle. I didn't shoot it enough to get really familiar with it and the only shot at an animal I tried with it in Africa was a miss over it's back due to shooting downhill. Then I switched to a .30-06 M70 as a light rifle. Like it. Still didn't use the light rifle much in Africa. Shot almost everything with the .416.

Masailand next year, I'm taking a McWhorter 7mm Weatherby built on a M70 action as a light rifle due to hunting on the plains. My old .416 is going too, but it's likely relegated to one buffalo and perhaps an eland.

A 470 double and a 416 Rem Mag shooting 350 gr Swift A Frames.

Whatever the PH/outfitter had to loan. They invariably have rifles suitable for the game on offer. Of course, since this post is 11 years old, I doubt the OP needs any advice.....

.470 Double
.375 H&H with scope 1x5 or similar
30/06 2x7 3x9 scope or similar

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
I've gone with a .300 Win. Mag. and a .458 Win. Mag. for a 21-day safari. It was a good enough battery, but the .300 ended up being the real workhorse, and a good one it was. I'm not going to hunt with a .458 Win. Mag. anymore.

I'm currently into the .338 Win. Mag. and .416 Rem. Mag. as my ideal rifle duo for safaris that will provide a lot of plainsgame, as well as buff, etc. I'm taking this tandem to Tanzania this season.

AD

quote:

Masailand next year, I'm taking a McWhorter 7mm Weatherby built on a M70 action as a light rifle due to hunting on the plains. My old .416 is going too, but it's likely relegated to one buffalo and perhaps an eland.

You may find that steamy 7mm a wee bit on the light side when it comes to long shots at the elusive Tommy or Oryx out on the plains.
I would be looking more at the grand variety of equally steamy 300s as those extra grains can make the difference.

Well, I have been going on 21 day hunts - in Zimbabwe I always got one extra day, so we had 22 days of hunting, due to flights

For so many years now, we have been taking 2 rifles for the same caliber, using the same ammo.

375/404, originally loaded with Barnes 300 grain X bullets, and now with our own Walterhog 300 grain bullets.

Several of us have shot literally hundreds of game animals with these two, from klipspringers to elephants.