I just finished watching this show (or as much as i could stomach) in which writer larry wichem (or however you spell it) shoots an obviously drugged lion in RSA. a nice combed mane, and the poor beat is laying in the shade of a bush as they walk up to it. a single shot and he just falls over. I just wrote a note to the sportsman channel condemning this. if they get enough notes, perhaps some of this will stop because the tv audience demands it

I think we need a preemptive strike against all these shows to prevent these canned hunts from ever being shown, unless they are upfront and clear about their nature. There is a case to be made for canned lion hunting, but passing these hunts off for a wild lion hunt is disgusting.

If Larry Weishuhn shot a lion on a canned hunt, my respect for him just went down the toilet.

Remember Tim Herald is the ONLY writer we have seen that has come out and speak against this.

This won't stop until we write the sponsors and let them know.

"There is a case to be made for canned lion hunting."

***How can anything positive be said about a canned hunt for ANY animal? Come on man and get real!

"If Larry Weishuhn shot a lion on a canned hunt, my respect for him just went down the toilet."

***He seems to do more and more "hunting" that I'm beginning to question. I'm with you on this one!

I don't know Larry but I do know he's been involved in hunting TV for a long time so what would make he, the network and his sponsors think that this type of show would be a good idea? I don't care one way or the other about whether anyone shoots a canned lion but unfortunately televising these "hunts" give people the wrong idea about what real lion hunting is all about and reflects badly on hunting in general.

Mark

I saw that same show
Will not waste my time anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
"There is a case to be made for canned lion hunting."

***How can anything positive be said about a canned hunt for ANY animal? Come on man and get real!

"If Larry Weishuhn shot a lion on a canned hunt, my respect for him just went down the toilet."

***He seems to do more and more "hunting" that I'm beginning to question. I'm with you on this one!

Gentlemen,

I think it boils down to both honesty and freedom of choice.

And don't forget that the antis will start picking on other hunts in both Africa and the US as being "canned".

Those that are conducted on farms.

I have absolutely no objection to people shooting a lion that has been raised on a farm - just as I have no objection to people hunting plains game animals that have been bred on farms.

But, be upfront and say you have hunted on a farm in South Africa, and not make it that you have shot a wild lion.

Personally, I would never consider hunting ANY dangerous game that has beeen bred on a farm.

I have hunted plains game in South Africa on farms, and have enjoyed it very much.

3 or 4 years ago, he took a nice 6 x 6 elk off a high fence ranch right outside of where I am. They tried to make it look like it wasn't a high fence hunt, in my opinion. If you're looking for one specific animal, it's not for me to judge. I don't believe that it is hunting.

If you have ever seen the way Larry dresses himself at SCI, you understand that the man has neither judgment or taste. This doesn't surprise me. But I have been told we can't criticize fellow hunters, even when they are slime. So well done Larry my fellow hunter!

On Friday's Episode:
Will lion tracks in the Kalahari sands lead to success?
The famed Kalahari Desert of southern Africa holds much treasure, including African lions, hunted the way they were nearly a century ago; when you found fresh tracks and then tracked the lion until there is a shot opportunity. Danger awaits at every turn.

Along the the way, Frikkie and Larry take time to go after a monstrous kudu bull.

I saw something that said Frikkie had over 200 succesful lion hunts....that's a lot of lions! Hmmmmm

I don't watch any show he is on...

Dragging stinky bait in Tanzania or Zimbabwe, spending hours upon hours in a small blind with puffy eyes and still coming back home empty handed after three weeks does not make a good TV show about lion hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If Larry Weishuhn shot a lion on a canned hunt, my respect for him just went down the toilet.

My respect for him went down long time ago when he wrote about the .300 RUM. He wrote that he didn't know how he hunted deer before the RUM came along since it killed the deer so much better.

Sportsman / Outdoor Channel lion Killers....

Scott Haugen, Fred Boyer and Olivia whats her face..... and this guy

These guys are all sellout douche bags. RSA hunts. Give me a break. No problem doing it, but to broadcasting to the public is BS, especially with the portrayal of HUGE DANGER.

I found a full history of Scott Haugen and his two canned lions with Tamm canned lion hunting in RSA. With the male, they found THREE males before lunch on the first day and killed the Monster. Wow what a tough hunt.

I Was ready to post about that bullshit when another bag of wind came out with the worst lion killing show ever. After an unsuccesssful morning of driving around, Fred boyer of Northwest Hunter TV decided to walk down a road to find a lion and alas, there he was. After the killer beast belched at them a couple drug induced burps he went down to the heros 375. He and his SA PH stood around and rambled on about DANGER and how good a shot, from sticks, in the situation. The lion didn't move other than to rise up and be killed.

At SCI I tried to get in the Sportsmans channel booth to complain but no one would have anything to do with it.

A "legitimate" lion hunt with a good lion taken would be terribly difficult to produce.

Even in good areas, MGM lions are few and far between.

At one point I decided not to shoot another lion unless it was better than my previous ones. I spent over 10 years hunting before this occurred.

A "real" lion who doesn't have a good mane is far more respectable than a canned one that looks as if it just came from the beauty parlor.

NORTHWEST HUNTERS has got to be some of the best ammo for AR groups anywhere....kill a Mexican Muley from a truck mounted "tower", kill six or more African PG from top of Bakkie.....
Larry shud be ashamed of hinself and the producers also...I watched the show mid week and again this morning to confirm what I thought....disgraceful!

JohnDL

How hard would it be to do it right, really?

Certainly with the outfitters in Zim or Tanzania or where ever with trail cam pictures of a lion you want. Then decent weather in these areas, filming from a fixed camera in a blind with the shooter on a dead rest at 50 yards or so? That seems a hell of a lot easier than say trying to even keep the camera functioning while humping it through the rainforest searching for a Bongo? Any hunt with tough weather and then making the cameraman hike, perhaps through the heat of the Sahel, or the swamps of Moz. or the mountains of Tanzania, and then expect him to get on the animal and get good film, are all much harder to do. It would be harder to produce a Vaal Rhebok hunt in the Mountains of South Africa, then most any free range lion hunt.

i watched this same show last Sunday and it was beyond disgusting. just as bad as Larry's "hunt" was the short segment showing the developmentally disabled young man and his father- as well as 6-7 other people in the group- walking up to another obviously drugged lion and shooting him while he slept from 30-40 yards away. then the big high fives for slaying the king of beasts. all this after a few hours of hunting. imagine 2 drugged lions killed on the same farm within a day or 2 of each other. Larry and the network should be ashamed of themselves for airing such garbage. Mr. Whitetail is a complete farce!

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
JohnDL

How hard would it be to do it right, really?

Certainly with the outfitters in Zim or Tanzania or where ever with trail cam pictures of a lion you want. Then decent weather in these areas, filming from a fixed camera in a blind with the shooter on a dead rest at 50 yards or so? That seems a hell of a lot easier than say trying to even keep the camera functioning while humping it through the rainforest searching for a Bongo? Any hunt with tough weather and then making the cameraman hike, perhaps through the heat of the Sahel, or the swamps of Moz. or the mountains of Tanzania, and then expect him to get on the animal and get good film, are all much harder to do. It would be harder to produce a Vaal Rhebok hunt in the Mountains of South Africa, then most any free range lion hunt.

SG

It would not be hard at all to produce a legitimate lion hunt, but to produce one where your hunter shoots a great lion would not be easy.

I've passed over quite a few young or bald lions.

There's certainly no dishonor in taking a big mature lion who just doesn't have it on top.

Unfortunately, it seems the appeal of a guaranteed good result (which obviously they want for the show) wins out.

Hell's bells. If you're gonna shoot a canned lion, why bother going to Africa to do it? Find some poor caged creature here.

Still more reasons to kill your television ...

With tra

Sorry, wrong button. With a month or 2 of trail cam pictures, your PH knows the lions in his area with a degree of certainty that doesn't exist with other animals. This allows lion hunts to be more certain for a TV crew, compared to other famous game like derby Eland or Bongo or Vaal Rehbok etc. if you want a good lion on tape it would seem the easiest animal to get. I don't buy the argument that you need to hunt canned in order to make filming a big lion more likely.

If a hunt without a kill is not a bad hunt; why would a show without a kill be a bad show? Just wondering.

Most of us on this forum think that what makes a hunt is: the preparation, the work that goes into it, the adventures and misadventures along the way (getting stuck, flat tires, broken gari's, tracking all day to find a bull you don't care to shoot, etc.), the animals seen, the birds, the bugs, the sounds, the smoke around the fire and just bloody being there.

I don't see why a show couldn't be done on the same basis; where you didn't know if you would see a "kill shot" at the end or not. I don't when I go and I keep coming back. Wouldn't viewers?

I'd watch it.

That's exactly the show that Randy Newberg has put together on the Sportsman Channel called "On Your Own Adventures". It's all DIY on public land and there are many episodes where no animal is taken and it's still right up there with the best ones on TV.

I saw a show 2-3 years back with Ivan Carter PH on a lion hunt where he had to follow up the wounded cat and dropped him on a charge in tall grass, backpedaling, at about 6 feet.

I believe it was a show that Ivan co-hosted with Craig Boddington. Very good show.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
That's exactly the show that Randy Newberg has put together on the Sportsman Channel called "On Your Own Adventures". It's all DIY on public land and there are many episodes where no animal is taken and it's still right up there with the best ones on TV.

I agree Toggun; I like this show. The fact that he is not successful every show puts a little suspense in it and makes it seem like real hunting.

quote:

Rep

unfortunately i think most American are slob/road hunters and the only thing that matters is whether or not you kill something. the hunt experience to them is a LOT less important than whether or not they bring home a carcass. sad but true. the audience here is not indicative of the average American hunter. i have told every PH i ever hunted with that i didn't care if i came home empty handed as long as we had a good time and put in a good effort.they mostly seemed to be amazed.

Does this subject need more

I saw this too. I see more and more these days and I admit that it gets to me when the host does not say it is under fence hunting. Look, I know Larry and consider him a friend, actually a very close friend. But I think he should have been up front on the lion deal.This outfit is the same one that the Pat and Nichole show tried to pass off as a real lion hunt. Another one day, 20 yard stalk, big lion down farce. I admit that I get a bit down after the countless 18-21 day lion hunts we film each year come back with no lion, and no show. Damn expensive, time consuming, frustrating affairs but, dammit, it is REAL LION HUNTING! Yet at the Sportsman Channel and Outdoor Channel Awards shows, we compete with these kinds of hunts and more than not they get the awards and Ohh's and Ahha's when that footage is shown on the screen. Yep the " I have taken 200 lions" is all the tip off you need as to what is happening. I hope you won't write Larry off as a bad guy as he is anything but. But if you see these guys at shows, you might just ask them to be more upfront on the nature of the lion hunts.

Dave,
Do you have larry's e-mail address?

465H&H

Yes, but I am not going to post it on this forum as I don't want to cause my buddy more heartburn than this may already be providing. The Sportsman Channel website, or Larry's own, may have it listed. I really mean it when I say that Larry is a good guy, and if you knew him you would agree. The TV game is a damn tough one, and shortcuts are sometime made, but these lion hunts, IMO are just not square unless they are explained upfront as to the actual hunting conditions.

My buddy guided Larry W on a mule deer hunt in the TX sandhills area quite a few years ago now. He told my buddy he wanted to track a big buck across the sand, which is a very good way to hunt here. They cut a track at a windmill, followed it less than 1/2 mile, and Larry quit, saying it was too hard. He then sat at a water hole the next few days, finally killing a 140 class buck. That's all well and good, but the bad part is he wrote a published a story on how they tracked this buck for miles until finally killing it. That lardazz is a joke and always has been.

quote:

That lardazz is a joke and always has been.

That's about how I've always had him pegged! He's probably a great guy and a good biologist, but doesn't have the time or whatever to do good hunts to feed himself. Almost everything I've watched him do has been very little self initiated as far as the hunt and more of having someone provide him a great ranch or spot where he can kill a good animal like you mentioned. He sure isn't the only one out there doing it either!

First of all I have no heartburn with baiting deer, bear or leopard for that matter if it is done to accomplish a management goal. Although it might be better to call it a management cull rather than a management hunt.

I also have no heartburn on hunting on large tracks of high fenced land for deer or African PG if the animals have a realistic chance of avoiding the hunter.

Saying that, sometimes these types of hunts lead to unintended negative consequences. I do think that these types of hunts have eroded a lot of sportsmanship values in hunters that partake of them. It is much easier for a hunter from Texas, where it is legal, to shoot from a vehicle when in Africa then say a hunter from Idaho where that kind of activity is highly illegal.

It is obvious that some hunters standards are much lower than others as this thread clearly shows. How much does what we are allowed to do in our home state affect how we hunt when in Africa?

From what I have heard Larry is a trained wildlife biologist as I am. I am surprised that one of my brothers would have anything to do with a canned lion or any other type of canned hunt. But since he is from Texas or at least has spent a lot of time hunting there maybe it isn't too surprising his sportsmanship values have been eroded.

There isn't anyway that any of these TV shows will honestly portray a canned lion hunt. It would be their death knell if the general hunting public knew what was going on. In my opinion, if you can't be honest about what you are doing, then don't put it on TV.

465H&H

What was the' Since he is from Texas" comment meant to imply?

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
But since he is from Texas or at least has spent a lot of time hunting there maybe it isn't too surprising his sportsmanship values have been eroded.

Hold on there partner!! Are you sure you want to say that?!!!

Walt, you and I have always been able to disagree and carry on a spirited but civil debate. That comment from you is disappointing to say the least.

Dave and Todd,

I think you missed my point. I was asking if a states hunting regulations that allow baiting of game, high fence hunting without size restrictions or shooting from a vehicle makes it easier for someone that is used to those types of hunts to go along with a canned hunts, shooting from a vehicle or similar small acreage fenced hunts in Africa, no matter what state they are from. The small acreage high fenced hunts are allowed in other states then Texas such as Idaho's game farm hunts. Other than Texas, I don't know of another state that allows shooting game from a vehicle. Texas probably has more high fence/baiting hunts than any other state and since Larry is from Texas, I suspect he has ample exposure to them. If a Texas hunter doesn't experience this type of hunt, he probaly wouldn't do it in Africa either.

465H&H

465

I think you are on to something. We as hunters are influenced by our local hunting culture. Say your raised by straight law abiding parents in Idaho. I would expect you to look down on shooting a deer over bait or from a vehicle of in a high fenced piece of land. Yet a child of Texas law abiding parents would probably not look down at those Texas legal methods. Now if we ship these two youngsters to South Africa, it seems obvious to me that they will react and feel different with a typical SA hunt. But I think there is more two it than what is legal back home.

When you hint that a Texan's ethics are quicker to erode into canned lion killing, because they are closer to it because of lots of fenced hunting, bait hunting and farm raised animals being more common, I don't know. Just because it seems closer in hunting style than our theoretical Idaho boy, doesn't mean it's more likely that a person raised in that culture would be OK with it. I think it will depend on the character of the individual no matter what culture they are from. Parents, hunting mentors and friends will be more influencial, I think.

SG,

I agree. Character always holds the trump card.

465H&H