People ,
Many of you have read the post where I wrote about mike sager , then many of you saw him on TV shooting his elephant bull –

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/3051082721

Mike is an excellent example of perfect planning and execution , of course with more than a pinch of luck thrown in – while he only booked and hunted the elephant through me , his other trophies are also excellent and worthy of note here . what I particularly like about the way mike did stuff was with very careful and thorough planning understanding exactly what he was getting into – while this takes time and a lot of effort , its all worth it -

Heres how he planned it – I added step 8 !!!!!!
Step 1
Identify the animals you want to take – put them on a spreadsheet with a reasonable expectation from a cost perspective
Step 2
Identify where those animals occur at the quality you desire – add that in a column on the sheet
Step 3
Identify a number of outfitters you would hunt with that operate in the areas researched in #2 – add rows under each animal with details
Step 4
Contact the outfitters , compare prices and accommodations and hunting areas and check references – add prices to the spreadsheet
Step 5
Write the deposit check based on the above research
Step 6
Decide what rifle and caliber to use , with what scope etc etc
Step 7
set up the exact equipment and practice with it for several months

step 8 – heres the important part –
GET OUT THERE AND HAVE A GREAT TIME , based on your research you ae confident you are in the right place and at the right time with the right outfitter –
RELAX , HUNT AND ENJOY YOURSELF that way when luck happens you are fully prepared for the moment –

Heres a pic again of his elephant – his perfect second barrel ensured I didn’t have to fire a shot , it was day two – mike had this deposit with me for a very long time – he identified the area and simply waited till he could afford it



Heres mike with his lion , taken the same year as the elephant , mike identified that eh would be happy with a captive bred lion , in fact he made this booking before I had even spoken to him , he was comfortable with the outfitter and knew what he was getting into



Here are his two kudus also from the same year, both very close to 60 inches , he shot then within ten days of each other , he took very little else , he was there specifically for kudu and turned down a bunch that others would have taken – if you say no to one thing it makes room for another ! both were shot in the last half hour of daylight in both instances mike passed up multiple great bulls that day !





Anyway , I just wanted to share 4 GREAT trophies from one year taken by a true gentleman who is very passionate about Africa he did his research diligently , practiced and bunch and then had great luck on the front line !!!

Ivan,
Just wait till the anti-captive bred lions people start chiming in!!!

Beautiful trophies, Ivan you surely know your stuff!

quote:

Just wait till the anti-captive bred lions people start chiming in!!!

key is he knew thats what he wanted and thats what he booked - i dont book those hunts neither do i know much about them - the trophies sure are beautiful though !!! i agree though some folks dont see it like that - oh well

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
. . . book those hunts

. . . book those harvests?

more good info on AR. Thanks Ivan
so embarrassed I did everything wrong.
1. got money
2. accepted offer to come to Uganda hunting NO questions asked just said OK
3. no list of what I wanted to kill. I don't harvest!thats what you do with crops. I kill thats what hunters do
4. bought two new CHEAP rifles and shot them just because I like shooting guns
5. sent full payment to outfitter
6. packed as little as I could get bye with no extra junk you don't need
7. got there had fun
8. had more fun than should be legal and might be illegal in some stated

I always use AR as a learning too land resource.

Mike

Mike: Me too.

And I thought I was the only guy that shopped for safaris with a spreadsheet?

That's pretty much what I do, except I do it all in my head except compating the outfitters. I also plan on 2-3 primary species, and figure to take others according to what Goddess diana offers. I also pad the budget figuring on more expensive species as the targets of opportunity.

Will,

Your spreadsheet is irrelevant if only one safari company appears on it.

Mark

ddrook,
on the contrary you did it all right as per your last line !!!!

Cool,I learned I'm doing everything right....

Except the money part

I am okay with the "canned" Lion hunts, as long, AS LONG! as the PH is up front with the client and the client is up front with the rest of us.

Be honest, every one who knows much about Africa can tell as soon as you state who you hunted with and where.

Sometimes the PH scams the client a bit, with stories about this incredible big maned Lion that, Lucky You!, happened across the river from a park and you have the opportunity of a lifetime.

Sometimes it is a joint effort "story" where the client knows the deal and goes along with or begins the deception.

I might follow up on ES Texas Scimitar Horned Oryx hunt suggestions, I want one really bad.

Just don't lie about it...

Good trophies

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am okay with the "canned" Lion hunts, as long, AS LONG! as the PH is up front with the client and the client is up front with the rest of us.

Be honest, every one who knows much about Africa can tell as soon as you state who you hunted with and where.

Sometimes the PH scams the client a bit, with stories about this incredible big maned Lion that, Lucky You!, happened across the river from a park and you have the opportunity of a lifetime.

Sometimes it is a joint effort "story" where the client knows the deal and goes along with or begins the deception.

I might follow up on ES Texas Scimitar Horned Oryx hunt suggestions, I want one really bad.

Just don't lie about it...

Good trophies

Rich

Are you kidding me!!!!! I can't believe what I just read!!!!!

Rich, explane?

I saw this post and couldn't help but feel fortunate to do the taxidermy work. Very impressive trophies in deed!!!!

That double pedestal Kudu mount is stunning!!

Ted,

just don't call it a hunt. It is a shoot. The man was upfront with his desire and how he fulfilled it. Ethics, man, ethics.

Rich
DRSS

I'm not talking about his...I'm asking about yours. ISS

You have been very-very vocal against this sort of thing in other forums and stated you would not participate in a shoot.
What say you?

Well Done to Mike Sager. Those are excellent trophies.

To the nay-sayers, so what if he hunted the lion in RSA? It's his money, his life, he can do whatever he wants to do. He does not have to answer to no one. Ethics are personal. It's your own set of guidelines on what you think is right. Everybody's ethics are not the same and there is absolutely no reason to condemn another hunter because he does not agree with you.

I'm with you on "it's his money" and yes I want him to do what he wants and support all hunting/shooting.

I am however not a big fan of the hero pictures from captive hunts but enjoy the exceptional animals in them.

But thats just me.

Truly beautiful mounts.

Ivan,

Nice trophies and I think your method of selecting a hunt is basically what anyone shoud do. Others of course will say you should wait around for the fabulous deal and then book something. I think that deal often cannot be taken advantage of by most therefore it's not a deal. On another note Ihope you realize you are enjoying untouchable status here on AR at this time. If I had posted a picture of an RSA lion on AR that a client had taken I would fully expect to be drawn and quartered by the ethics police.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
. . . book those hunts

. . . book those harvests?

Where these animals a canned hunt?

quote:

On another note Ihope you realize you are enjoying untouchable status here on AR at this time. If I had posted a picture of an RSA lion on AR that a client had taken I would fully expect to be drawn and quartered by the ethics police.

mark my point was not that he shot a canned lion but that he understood and research what he wanted waht the parameters were and what he could afford , as i mentioned i only booked the elephant hunt in bots the rest was in south africa - they were his target species , he did the research and understood all the moving parts and parameters -

quote:

Where these animals a canned hunt

the lion was

Ivan,

I fully understand the point you were trying to make and that you had no part in the lion hunt. On the other hand this is AR and you only have to be oh so loosely associated with any controversial subject to get the sharks circling. Once one of these threads becomes derailed it is almost impossible to bring it back to the original topic.

Mark

Wildlife Gallery,

Very nice work but not even you as an artist can make that Lion look less ridiculous.

I think the lion looks great. I took mine through 18 days of tough conditions in Tanz. and at the last possible day with 10 minutes of light left. However, if Mr. Sager is happy with his hunt then so be it. Who appointed some of you to be the "hunt police". It seems some of you can't wait to find a firing squad to line up in front of.

The liberal mind-set is one who remains intolerant with anyone that doesn't subscribe to their belief system. Only they can be intolerant. It's not my place to tell Mr. Sager he can't show his lion or that Wildlife Gallery is somehow complicit in some sham.

Why piss on his parade. If your not happy just keep your mouth shut or start your own website where you can pontificate and preach to the unholy amongst us.


Dutch

If Mr Sager is happy with his lion, I am pleased for him and do not begrudge him his trophy for one minute. By the same token, it is equally intolerant to berate others who happen to see a distinction between a canned lion hunt and a free range lion hunt. I support the right of both hunters to do either and can make a case that canned lion hunting actually helps to perpetuate open range lion hunting. As for me, I would prefer my free range lioness to that beautiful male -- that is just me and one man's opinion. If others have a different view, that is fine too. But to take others to task for expressing their view, seems, to use your phrase, intolerant.

Ivan,

That's a pretty helpful post.

I think I'll employ your method for the buffalo hunting I'm trying to plan.

Thanks for sharing, I've been the recipient of a ton of good information the past few weeks and it's much appreciated.

4Eyes

MJines,
Your argument seems circular in it's reasoning. I'm not intolerant of their view, just their juxtaposition that only their view is the right view. Reread my post, I said I, too, am happy for Mr. Sager to hunt whatever he wishes. When someone espouses an intolerant position it is the intolerance that only their position is correct, not the position, i.e. a canned hunt, that I find offensive.

The mosque controversy is a case in point. Are Americans, who are opposed to the mosque being built at ground-zero intolerant or just sensitive to the location of it's construction? Intolerant would be to say that no mosque should be constructed anywhere or under only my guidelines. My position is that it is certainly encouraged to state one's views not that it is the only view.


Dutch

Hardly worth debating, but you called out the "hunting police" that had the temerity to openly suggest that they found canned lion hunting offensive or objectionable and declared them to be "intolerant" by expressing their views. My point was simply that you too are being judgmental and intolerant in making a value judgment that is dismissive of the views of the "hunting police".

MJines:
You seem intolerant of my position of intolerance. But, as you have correctly assesed, hardly worth debating. I'm sure Mr. Sager is getting a chuckle from this thread.

Dutch

. . . while he enjoys looking at his beautiful lion mount.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Ivan,

I fully understand the point you were trying to make and that you had no part in the lion hunt. On the other hand this is AR and you only have to be oh so loosely associated with any controversial subject to get the sharks circling. Once one of these threads becomes derailed it is almost impossible to bring it back to the original topic.

Mark

Hey Mark,

I leave in 2days but I have about 5 hours layover in Jo-Berg. Can you have one of those lions brought to the parking lot for me?

As do I.


Dutch

Jim,

I can't arrange a lion during your layover in JNB as I don't have quite enough time but I'll organize one while you are Namibia. I'll have it trucked to Zambia to await your arrival on the Luangwa. How's that for service?

Mark

Kudus'to good planning (pun intended) Altough don't get so caught up in analysis that paralysis is the result!! The AR forum does a great job of informing folks. Talking to other hunters, agents, taking in SCI and other conventions adds to the book of knowledge. So far after four trips to Africa I have had
1. memorable experiences to the extent of too much fun (no such thing)
2. treated like a king
3. every PH I hunted with is a best friend

As a result I can't wait to go back

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
I think the lion looks great. I took mine through 18 days of tough conditions in Tanz. and at the last possible day with 10 minutes of light left. However, if Mr. Sager is happy with his hunt then so be it. Who appointed some of you to be the "hunt police". It seems some of you can't wait to find a firing squad to line up in front of.

The liberal mind-set is one who remains intolerant with anyone that doesn't subscribe to their belief system. Only they can be intolerant. It's not my place to tell Mr. Sager he can't show his lion or that Wildlife Gallery is somehow complicit in some sham.

Why piss on his parade. If your not happy just keep your mouth shut or start your own website where you can pontificate and preach to the unholy amongst us.


Dutch

My comment was that the Lion looks ridiculous. I have seen and dealt with many hundreds of these beasts but never have I seen one like this. Looks like a child's toy in my eyes.

Mr Sager made the decision to shoot a canned Lion which I find perplexing especially as his other trophies were hunted hard in wild Africa. I do not condemn his actions or canned lion but rather feel he has missed out on some fine hunting by making this decision. That is the trouble with spreadsheet hunting.

One consolation with these canned lion trophy collections is that it puts less pressure on the Wild Lion quota, thus keeping the $ to hunt a wild one down low enough for me to enjoy it .