How far is too far to shoot at a game animal?
It seems some have issues with long range shooting & even I know that there is a point where it is shooting & not hunting, just wondering what ya'll thought.
I practice off the bench at 400 yds regularly & feel confident with the right situation that I can make that shot when hunting.
But, I've also missed at under 100yds before.
I even practice some off sticks at 400, not sure I would want to shoot at an animal at that range though.

if i can't get within 200 yards, i don't shoot, especially on an animal with a high trophy fee. i owe it to my target to kill him cleanly and under field conditiona if he isn't within 200( preferably a lot less), he is going to walk. i will be the first to admit i am not Seal Team sniper material and never will be. on dangerous game that number drops a lot. as far as i am concerned shooting game at 400-500 yards isn't hunting- it's snipeing. i get closer or i pass and if it means coming home empty handed- so be it. i am sure i will get flamed but as Clint Eastwood said- " A man has to know his limitations" and i know mine. variables that come into play on long shots can be huge and UNPREDICTABLE.

About the same with jdollar. I'd feel awfully stupid trying to show off with a 400 yard shot and miff it. That being said, if I made a poor shot at my 'comfortable' range I would take ANY possible shot to end unnecessary suffering.

It depends on your own capabilities with the equipment you have. That statement covers a lot of variables, but the bottom line is that you should turn down ANY shot you don't feel will allow you to kill cleanly with the first shot, regardless of the distance.

A 400 yard shot at a Prairie Dog or Woodchuck is not at all extreme, taken with an accurate rifle off a bipod or other firm rest. With other animals, it can vary based on wind conditions, caliber, and attitude (relaxed vs alert and moving) of the animal. It's hard to generalize...only you know when you're shooting a high=percentage shot or just slinging lead.

It's what you're comfortable with. I shoot 400 yards on a regular basis. Most people don't and can't make the shot. As long as you recognize your limitations that's fine.I've taken a number of animals between 3 and 400 yards.

Hello everyone. Excellent post! And I am proud to be in the company of such conscientious forum members!
Not to hijack post..but was wondering what would be maximum distance you fellows would attempt a shot with the wide open V express sights? I am assuming quite a bit closer than was generally practiced in the old days?

I would say it depends on the animal, 100 yds or less on plains game. Baboons go for the long shot. DG, less than 100 yds because of the chance of something going wrong. Elephant, 25 to 30 yds, maybe closer. Important part is what you feel comfortable with.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
How far is too far to shoot at a game animal?

any distance over the proficient capabilities/limitations of the hunter and his chosen weapon at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
How far is too far to shoot at a game animal?

One thing to take into consideration is the the length of time between the discharge of the rifle and the arrival of the bullet on target. Even with a high velocity round, the interval is noticeable, and if your target decides to move at that instant, while the bullet is in the air, there's nothing you can do about it. One step can turn a well aimed lethal shot into a nasty non-fatal wound, which is bad enough with non-dangerous game, but a crime with dangerous game.

Still, I have read accounts of "hunters" attempting 1000 yard shots at bear. There is no excuse for such nonsense in my opinion. The longest shot I have made in Africa was around 260 yards, and the shot itself was not difficult, but it could have been, had the animal moved before the bullet arrived.

When you hunt, you take any shot you think is reasonable.

I suppose the maximum distance I have shot a game animal was about 500 yards.

If you follow an animal for hours, then get a chance at long shot, take it if you think you are capable of killing the animal.

In France there is a legal maximum distance for hunting with a centerfire rifle, and it is 300 meters.

quote:

When you hunt, you take any shot you think is reasonable.

I like this answer, simply because Reasonable, like ethics varies from one person to the next. Longest shot I ever made was in the 600 to 650 yard range. Would I or have I attempted such a shot since that one, NO. I prefer the 200 or less, even though the rifles I use are quite capable of clean kills out to 400/500 yards, maybe farther. As someone else pointed out however at extended ranges there are many things that can effect the outcome of the shot that can take place in the time between when the gun goes bang and the bullet reaches the target. Also optical anomalies, such as the animal is not completely broadside but is quartering slightly, can turn what looked like a DRT into a long tracking job.

"How far is too far"?

To THINK you MAY do it and KNOWING you CAN do it answers that question.
It is therefore never too far when, as Saeed quite aptly put it, you know the distance at which you are capable of pulling off a shot.

I like to tell people that if you have to aim over the top of the animal its to far.

Keep in mind we hunt open country with mountains and large karoo flats adjacent.To hunt here you need to be able to shoot 200-250yds off of sticks as a standard shot.

with a little practice its fine.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
I like to tell people that if you have to aim over the top of the animal its to far.

There is perhaps a defect in your advice. A number of my scopes have ballistic turrets with which I can get out to 700 or 800 yards without ever aiming over the top of the animal.

Personally, I think there are several challenges in hitting something at so called long range. The gun has to be accurate enough to put a bullet consistently into the size of the target selected; a neck shot will require more accuracy than a chest shot. Then there is range calculation which for me, gets much more challenging after about 300 yards but a rangefinder can extend that. With flat shooting rifles, after 400 yards, trajectory becomes much steeper and therefore precise range calculation and knowledge of bullet trajectory becomes much more important.

I think Saeed nailed it. But, for me, it's a lot closer than for many. I shoot groundhogs out to about 300, give or take a little, but with big game, it needs to be closer. I shoot targets out to 300 yards, and to be honest that's a pretty long way for me. I still get excited when I'm hunting. I passed a 275 yard shot at a warthog, because I had the shakes so bad I couldn't keep the crosshairs within ten feet of him. I admire you rock steady guys, but, I gotta get closer. 'A man must know his limitations.'
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
I like to tell people that if you have to aim over the top of the animal its to far.

I like that guideline! It is something easily understood, and agreed to. It does put the pressure back on to the PH to get you in close enough, but they should be able to do that!

[I once had a PH get me in close enough to a herd of Impala to throw a rock into the middle of the herd! - Great fun!]

quote:

It does put the pressure back on to the PH to get you in close enough, but they should be able to do that!

Somehow, I view that differently than you do, it puts the pressure on the HUNTER to be aware of their OWN limitations and be honest with themself and their guide/PH as to those limitations.

One client may be perfectly happy and practiced at taking 300 to 500 yard shots on game successfully, while another may have real trouble with anything over 150.

Also, the question does not specifically apply to clients hunting with a guide/PH, but just hunters in general. JMO.

This is getting to be a popular topic on all hunting forums not just AR, and not just the Africa pages.

For me I shoot F-Class at 1000 yards. That doesn't mean I have to shoot an animal at that distance.

I really like shots less than 200.

With a dead solid rest, and good laser range finding measurement I might go 350-400.

Ethics come in to play, unless I have a 90% chance of killing the animal I won't shoot.

I have known a couple guys with unfilled desert sheep tags, because they wouldn't shoot over 200. Man I never want to be the guy to make that decision.

The real question is how bad of a shot can you be and still ethically hunt?

Too far is relative to the shooter and conditions.

My first shot on a game animal in Africa was a zebra at a lasered 302 yards off the sticks, with my elbow braced against a tree, using my 375 H&H. I hit within 1 inch of my where I wanted.


With a good rest, 300 yards on a medium to large sized animal it's fine for me but I shoot a lot of long range regularly.

My longest shot on a coyote off of a solid rest is 732 yards again DRT. That was with my 6.5x284 F class rifle and I have dope sheets in 25 yard increments out to 1,000 yards for different altitudes and weather conditions.

The rule I follow (for myself): If I can get closer, I get closer....If I can get steadier, I get steadier.

Best regards, D. Nelson

quote:

Originally posted by D. Nelson:
The rule I follow (for myself): If I can get closer, I get closer....If I can get steadier, I get steadier.

Best regards, D. Nelson

Took the words right off my keyboard...


I'll just add that long range (whatever that is to you) and the ability of you to make that shot are dependent on multiple factors.

First and foremost is exact distance measuring past about 300 yards, if you are guessing at the range you are setting yourself up for a miss or worse.

Rest, to make long range shots you've got to have a dead solid rest if you've got any wobble at ALL don't break the trigger.

Wind, if the wind is gusty, if it blowing over a prominent terrain feature such as a canyon or if you are shooting from a high vantage point down into a flat. The wind can and will screw you on a long range shot.

Shot angle if you are shooting up or down a steep angle you need to hold for a shorter distance. The old saw about hold low down hill and high uphill is totally and completely WRONG! You hold for a shorter distance up or down hill depending on the angle. IE you hold lower or set your scope shorter for both.

Marksmanship and equipment. Are you and your rifle up to the task and have you practiced it from field not bench position at this range?

Finally the game animal that you are shooting at. I tend to be much more careful shooting at DG and true game animals than i do at varmints and pests. A perfect example is shooting feral hogs. I'll let fly at hogs and be much more liberal with the shots I'll take on them because I don't care if I loose the occasional hog and if I do wound one I've got a pack of blood trailing dogs who LOVE to do that job. Hog hunting is about population reduction. On serious big game I'm going to be more careful because I don't want to wound an animal that is carefully being manged for population balance. Big difference in my book.

So I guess the correct answer in my book to question of how far is to far is that it depends on lots of variable and constant data and conditions.

I passed a shot on a really nice buffalo bull at about 200 yards with a scoped .375H&H a few years ago simply because from my shooting position I couldn't get steady enough. I know I could have easily put one into the front third of the bull but I had enough wobble going on that I couldn't be sure of a perfect hit.

If that had been a bull elk I'd have been sure enough of my shot to break the trigger. But bull elk don't kill people if they are wounded and they die pretty quick if they are hit in anywhere in the vitals. Buffalo...not so much. I had a lung shot buff try and kill me 30 minutes after he was hit. So I tend to try and be much more certain of my shots on DG. Blood trailing a buff in thick brush is NOT FUN!

The bit I like about hunting is the hunting bit. Taking a shot at 200 plus yards reduces the fun. That's why I like to get in close - it's more fun.

If you think you can make the shot nine times out of nine, go for it. If you can't, then don't. Regardless of the distance.

My first PH asked me what distance I was confortable with. I told him I had only made easy shots and lucky shots. He got me to CLOSE range on almost everything. My best safari ever.

I think it depends alot on what and where you are hunting. One of my favorite hunts is pronghorn (at least 1 week AFTER opening) and if you can't make a 300 yd+ shot you have no (or extremely limited) chance. The same is probably true for springbok hunting in many instances.

If it is open country, I am very comfortable from 300-400 yds and once made a 508 yd shot when I had a great rest and no way to get closer to a mule deer bedded in open country. My goal is to close inside of 400 yds and take a shot from a great rest, typically prone.

I practice alot with my long-range rifles (300 WSM and 25 WSSM) from 300-400 yds so I know exactly where my handloads are going if wind is light. In high winds I won't take these shots and work to <300 yds.

My longest shot in Africa was 430 yards on a Black Springbok. I have shot blue wildebeest at 330 yards and other plains game at between 250-300 yards, but that was years ago. Today I would be more circumspect about those shots, and would consider getting closer, if at all possible, before taking long shots.

The extreme long shots are only justifiable, IMO, for a police or military sniper when it is used to save lives, or on a prairie dog shoot or as a follow-up on a wounded animal! Like MOA TACTICLE said, I also did a lot of 1000 yd shooting back in the 1950s and I did fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean 1000 yds is a good idea for shooting at big game animals.

First off the rifles used in 1000 yd shooting are very specialized rifles shooting rounds that are very fast and with very flat trajectory, and retaining enough power at the end of the shot to only penetrate a paper target with bullets that are designed for target shooting not hunting of live targets.

For me if a deer or elk size animal is standing broad side for a heart/lung shot and there is no wind, or heat mirage to dope out, a flat shooting rifle that I can keep all five shots in a 10 inch pattern at 350 yds from a sitting position with elbows rested on my knees, then I will take the shot. 500 or 600 yd shots at live targets is IMO irresponsible unless already wounded and escaping, for the simple reason even a large animal like an elk or moose standing broadside is a risk of a gut-shot animal. Most hunters cannot hit a 55 gallon oil drum at 600 yds.
Even with a very fast bullet, if the animal takes a step forward at the same time you pull the trigger on a 600 yd shot, that bullet may gut shoot the animal. Many animals shot in the gut will not show sign of being hit and simply walk behind a bush out of sight before going down. I simply respect the animals I hunt too much to take a chance on gut shooting one to die a lingering painful death. However that is simply my choice and does not effect anyone else!

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MHO:

1. If you don't regularly shoot at the distance you are thinking of shooting, you have no business shooting at an animal at that range. "Most hunters can't hit a 55 gal drum at 600 yards" is true for the simple reason most hunters don't have access to a place they can practice at 600 yards.
2. If you can put 9 of ten shots in one foot circle, you might be justified in taking the shot. If not, forget it. And that is from field positions, not the bench.
3. If a one mph wind blows your bullet half the vital area, you are shooting too far.
4. If the TOF approaches one second, you are shooting too far. The wind and the animal have lots of time to change.

I practice at long range twice a week. Friday morning is 500 yard gong day. Today I shot my .220 Swift with 75 grain Amax bullets. Used the sitting position with my bipod and sling and all bullets were within 4 inches of my point of aim. 500 yards is not that tough. My other practice session is at ranges of 600 to 820. I start at 820 and if I hit, I stop. 800 is twice as hard as 700, and 700 is twice as hard as 600. At 820 yards my Swift drift 5.6 inches for EACH one mph of wind. if the wind changes one mph, that is a miss. But I did get lucky on Tuesday holding a bit over 2 MOA for wind.

Many shooters forget that as the range increases, their bullet group expands. Suppose you can shoot an 8 inch group at 500 yards. Well, that means some bullets will be only 2 inches away from the outside edge of a 12 inch vital area. If you misjudge the wind only a little, that bullet will be blown out of the vital area.

I suppose if you only practice when the wind isn't blowing you can feel pretty good about yourself.

The worst thing to happen to hunting are these shows that make guys think they can shoot at 1200 yards by simply buying their equipment.

At some range (distance), you can prove mathematically it is impossible to connect 90 percent of the time. But some guys insist there is no limit to what a guy can shoot.

Thanks guys, this has been real interesting.
If I practice regulary, I'm a fairly good shot, but if I go without practice, I stink up the place.
I have rifles, scopes & ammo that are far better than my ablities, but I have fun shooting & testing myself.
But shooting targets as opposed to live animals is far different to me.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
MHO:

1. If you don't regularly shoot at the distance you are thinking of shooting, you have no business shooting at an animal at that range. "Most hunters can't hit a 55 gal drum at 600 yards" is true for the simple reason most hunters don't have access to a place they can practice at 600 yards.
2. If you can put 9 of ten shots in one foot circle, you might be justified in taking the shot. If not, forget it. And that is from field positions, not the bench.
3. If a one mph wind blows your bullet half the vital area, you are shooting too far.
4. If the TOF approaches one second, you are shooting too far. The wind and the animal have lots of time to change.

I practice at long range twice a week. Friday morning is 500 yard gong day. Today I shot my .220 Swift with 75 grain Amax bullets. Used the sitting position with my bipod and sling and all bullets were within 4 inches of my point of aim. 500 yards is not that tough. My other practice session is at ranges of 600 to 820. I start at 820 and if I hit, I stop. 800 is twice as hard as 700, and 700 is twice as hard as 600. At 820 yards my Swift drift 5.6 inches for EACH one mph of wind. if the wind changes one mph, that is a miss. But I did get lucky on Tuesday holding a bit over 2 MOA for wind.

Many shooters forget that as the range increases, their bullet group expands. Suppose you can shoot an 8 inch group at 500 yards. Well, that means some bullets will be only 2 inches away from the outside edge of a 12 inch vital area. If you misjudge the wind only a little, that bullet will be blown out of the vital area.

I suppose if you only practice when the wind isn't blowing you can feel pretty good about yourself.

The worst thing to happen to hunting are these shows that make guys think they can shoot at 1200 yards by simply buying their equipment.

At some range (distance), you can prove mathematically it is impossible to connect 90 percent of the time. But some guys insist there is no limit to what a guy can shoot.

Az writer what game animals do you hunt with a 220 Swift? Can you hit that well with a 7mm Rem Mag or a 300Win Mag?

Admittedly the wind plays more with the 220 Swift than it would with either of the other two rounds, but the other two are wrapped up in recoil and in Africa many shoot the various .375 rounds on plains game and the smallest round you are likely to find there would be a 270 Win, but the list would include the hot .30 cal rifles.I don't think we will ever see a 220 Swift in Africa but there are many 243 Win rifles there. When I lived in El Paso,Tx there were lots of 220 Swift shooters out at the P-Dog towns and sniping coyotes. I had several rifles chambered for 243Win, and the .22s still have a couple of bull barreleds that haven't been fired in years.

I think you are right. Most hunters do all their practice on a 100 yd range with a bench and sand bags. Now living in a very urban area in a state where all land is private I rarely get to do any walking stump shooting any longer, but when I lived in the west I was in the field daily hunting coyotes and bobcats and shooting long shots on jack rabits mostly with a 243 Win rifle. I really miss the mountains and desert, where you can shoot at any range you can see!

No experience in Africa.

I have shot fallow deer in NZ at 300 to 350 meters on a few occasions. These are in steep country where the deer are invariably on the opposite slope of a gully. I missed one & nailed 3. Two were right through the heart and the third one was spooked & moving. I shot a nice black bear on the last evening 10 minutes before dark in BC at 307 yards lasered. Anchored with first shot in lungs and finished with 2 follow up shots.

I like long range plinking and small game shooting out to 400 meters. I would not shoot at large animals like buffalo at long range. Deer tend to be a lot more skittsh and spook easily & so stalking them across a ridge and shooting the odd long shot is normal - particularly in some parts of NZ & say Coues & mule deer in the US.

start gettin'g beyond 300 yards and I'm outta the game!

Mac:

I used my .220 Swift today. Tuesday I shot it and a 7 STW. Last week I shot a .300 RUM and a .300 SAUM.

I have a number of long range rifles and cycle thru them. I clean them after only about 10 or 15 rounds (solvent only).

My longest shot on game was with a .338 Win Mag.

The biggest problem with long range shooting is the wind. My Swift drifts a bit more than my .300 RUMs and a bit less than my SAUM.

I practice at long range, but I practice off the sticks once a week too. Last night I shot 30 rounds of .204 Ruger at the 200 yard gongs from the sticks. Great African practice. I don't need a .416 for that practice, but I do need a "grown up" rifle. And, since I was the last guy on the range, I painted the gongs and didn't have to worry about showing up early while the guys hung their targets this morning.

Boy, you sure are right about the desert. But I love the range here in Phx. Every Friday morning is reserved for 500 yard practice. Fifteen or so minutes from my house.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Mac:

I used my .220 Swift today. Tuesday I shot it and a 7 STW. Last week I shot a .300 RUM and a .300 SAUM.

I have a number of long range rifles and cycle thru them. I clean them after only about 10 or 15 rounds (solvent only).

My longest shot on game was with a .338 Win Mag.

The biggest problem with long range shooting is the wind. My Swift drifts a bit more than my .300 RUMs and a bit less than my SAUM.

I practice at long range, but I practice off the sticks once a week too. Last night I shot 30 rounds of .204 Ruger at the 200 yard gongs from the sticks. Great African practice. I don't need a .416 for that practice, but I do need a "grown up" rifle. And, since I was the last guy on the range, I painted the gongs and didn't have to worry about showing up early while the guys hung their targets this morning.

Boy, you sure are right about the desert. But I love the range here in Phx. Every Friday morning is reserved for 500 yard practice. Fifteen or so minutes from my house.

Sounds like a nice range! When I lived in El Paso I kept an out of state New Mexico hunting license all the time so I could hunt all the 3,000,000 acres of public land. I used to shoot at Desert Gun Club but it only had a 300 yd range, then at La Union, New Mexico about 25 miles up the Valley from my home we had a 1000 yd range, and down the Valley we had a 550 yds silhouette range, then out at the pipeline road at cat mountain we had 400, 500, 1000, and 1500 gongs with Cat mountain as back drop. I really miss that place! Here in the Metroplex of D/FW where we have 5.5 million people any range you go to has a waiting line and a short time limit for shooting, and most are only 100 yd ranges with so many rules on what you can shoot on each distance, that it is not worth the trouble. Like I said I really miss the desert!

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Maybe I should have stated my qualifications as a long range shooter.

From 1960 until roughly five years ago I have been a competitive shooter, primarily involved in military type high power rifle shooting. The course of fire I most often competed with involved 20 shots standing at 200 yards at a target with a 7" "10" ring, in a time limit of 20 minutes, 20 shots rapid fire standing to sitting at 200 yards, two strings of ten shots in 60 seconds each, where the shooter is required to assume the sitting position from a standing position and reload once during each string. 20 shots rapid fire at 300 yards at the same size target, standing to prone, two strings of ten shots in 70 seconds each, where the shooter is required to assume the prone position from a standing position and reload once during each string. Finally, 20 shots slow fire prone in a time limit of 20 minutes at 600 yards at a target with a 12" "10" ring. All of the shots are fired with a rifle equipped with metallic sights only.

In addition to competing as an individual, I was also a member of the USMC Far Eastern Division team, the USMCR team, and the Tennessee State Rifle Association team, of which I was also the captain. I was classified as a Master by the NRA in 1967 (then the highest classification). I was awarded the Distinguished Rifleman medal in 1983.

It was not unusual for me to fire a perfect score rapid fire sitting, using a bolt action match rifle, less frequently at rapid fire prone, and at 600 yards slow fire I frequently fired scores of 197 or better, with as many as 15 of the 20 shots in the 6" "X" ring, used to break ties.

Using a scope, which was allowed at 1000 yard matches, did not significantly increase my score.

However, for reasons stated above, I placed an arbitrary limit on myself of 300 yards while hunting in Africa. Conditions in Africa often make it difficult to estimate range accurately, wind conditions the same, and even light conditions can affect shot placement. One bad experience with an animal who moved just as the shot was fired convinced me that my self imposed range limit was justified.

One of the most difficult problems encountered in Africa, as far as stalking to reduce the range of a shot is concerned, is the fact that plains game is seldom found away from a herd, and moreover, in addition to the other animals of the same species in a herd, there may be numbers of other species about which may react in an unpredictable way to a shooting party skulking in their vicinity. Wildebeest are particular offenders, going into a series of antics at little or no provocation. This means that sometimes shots have to be taken in far less than ideal conditions. This is where knowledge of your own capability, based on long hours on the range, comes into play.

As Saeed said "When you hunt, you take any shot you think is reasonable." However, your sense of what is reasonable needs to be based on a frank assessment of your own capabilities.

Too far for me depends on whether I can get closer. If I can get appreciably closer, then wherever I am is too far.

My maximum is right around 300 yards for an undisturbed, non-DG animal, and I would take that shot only if I had a good rest, and if there was little or no wind.

Of course, for a lot of other reasons, for DG animals, my maximum is around 50-100 yards, and then, again, I would take such a shot only if I could not get closer.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Too far for me depends on whether I can get closer. If I can get appreciably closer, then wherever I am is too far.

My maximum is right around 300 yards for an undisturbed, non-DG animal, and I would take that shot only if I had a good rest, and if there was little or no wind.

Of course, for a lot of other reasons, for DG animals, my maximum is around 50-100 yards, and then, again, I would take such a shot only if I could not get closer.

I absolutely agree!

The answer obviously depends upon the shooter's skill level, the game, the conditions, the rifle...a huge number of variables. Quick and easy answer: If you even THINK that it might be too far...it's TOO FAR!

I've been fortunate to live where 300 yard shooting was easy to access...and I've recently moved to a home that allows me 500 yards from my backyard. I practice at these ranges a lot...but in the field, I want to hunt. I want to remember the excitement of getting close, not the technicalities of wind judgement, range assessment and holdover. The only game animal I've ever shot at over 300 yards (I'm not including coyotes, crows, and chucks) was a caribou taken at 425. The first shot was sufficient...I put in a second just to be sure. TO THIS DAY I remember that kill with ambivalence. I took it largely due to the urging of onlookers. Every time I look at that rack on the wall I find myself wishing I had passed...getting closer was not an option at the time. I doubt that I will ever do that again.