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As a shooting instructor and PH im very worried about the decline of shooting techniques in many hunters ,i can say this is very very rare in AR members most of them real pros with his guns and most of them excellent shooters with 3 gun pistols ,rifles and shotguns ,but im seeing very few interest in some collectors of trophies that i guided lately. I have been in contact with instructors form USA and South Africa AND I CAN RECOMMEND SAAM ,with CHIP BEAMAN an ex SEAL SNIPER as one of the best facilities for Africa,my friend IL LING NEW at GUNSITE ,and MONTY KALOGERAS ,please if you atended to schools that are usefull for the AFRICAN hunters post here . We must try to teach the few we know to new hunters and recommend schools for advanced training. I know of good schools too in SA and in Australia where you shoot hundreds to wild cows and hogs but i dont remember the names now . www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | ||
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Il Ling did a fantastic job instilling confidence in Joyce's shooting ability during three days at Gunsite. Joyce was already a decent range shooter, but the action of walking the African Safari simulation course taught Joyce to shot from many positions and use available cover with doing "stalks". In Zambia with Andrew she shoot game at 250 yards off sticks and one stalk on a group of Impala included a crawl over an anthill to blend into cover behind some low scrub and Joyce then dropping her quarry from a kneeling position. I was worth every cent!! Link to Darin's thread about the experience ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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IL LING NEW gained her reputation among a mens world today shes one of he best instructors of GUNSITE . RIFLES only is a good academy too. www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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juanpozzi. Thank you for the fine compliment on Chip and our Sportsmans All weather All Terrain Marksmanship training. We set out to find the best instructors on the face of the planet and I can say with certainty our guys take second to none. Juan are indeed correct as we need to teach, mentor and develop new hunters and shooters to be highly skilled marksmen and women to make ethical terminal shots. Exceptionally skilled marksmen benefit you the outfitter as a precise shot saves both time and money also the same for the hunter. We say "there is only one first shot". We will be at the NRA annual meeting next week in Houston and welcome all you AR members to visit us at booth #4257 SAAM/FTW. Elton Rambin Mail/Ship: 1802 Horse Hollow Rd. Barksdale, Texas 78828 Phone: 479 461 3656 Ranch: 830-234-4366 Check our Hunt & Class Schedule at www.ftwoutfitters.com 4 Rules of Gun Safety 1/ Treat all guns as though they are loaded. 2/ Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to shoot. 3/ Do not put your finger on trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot. 4/ Be sure of your target and safe background. | |||
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Elton ,i always hear good things about you in all my clients and from hunters from all over the world .As you know besides being a PH im a gunwriter -not good -but perhaps the most prolific of south america and im working in an Article about this matter ,YOUR SCHOOL PROBALY IS THE BEST OF THE WORLD regarding AFRICAN PREPS COURSES and your CHIP was an instructor of the SEALS snipers so he knows something about rifle shooting. I heard the comments of Craig Boddigton and he speaks very high of you. Ill visit you next time in USA or ill see you perhaps in SCI convention . Regards Juan Pablo Pozzi Zurbriggen md. www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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Juan. Again thank you for such a kind word. It is always gratifying to learn ones efforts are noticed and appreciated by hunters and professionals like yourself. Like you we strive delver value and a unique experience. We look forward to your visit and smile at SCI and DSC. Elton Rambin Mail/Ship: 1802 Horse Hollow Rd. Barksdale, Texas 78828 Phone: 479 461 3656 Ranch: 830-234-4366 Check our Hunt & Class Schedule at www.ftwoutfitters.com 4 Rules of Gun Safety 1/ Treat all guns as though they are loaded. 2/ Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to shoot. 3/ Do not put your finger on trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot. 4/ Be sure of your target and safe background. | |||
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Umm.. I dont think most safari hunters need a "school' Hunting is hunting and shooting is shooting. I never went to a "school" and didnt need one for my 7 safaris. Of course, there are good hunters and bad hunters, good shots and bad shots. Nothing special about training for a "safari hunt' IMO | |||
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The words "most" and "need" in your post are valid but I would add that most would actually learn something at a shooting school. Do they "need" to? Maybe not. Might they improve? Probably so. Using my wife as an example, she already possessed excellent gun handling skills before gunsite and could shoot quite well off sticks. She learned to trust those skills and adapt them to shooting in positions and simulated "safari conditions" that we could never duplicate at a range where we do a majority of our shooting. Again, maybe not a need, but you would be hard pressed to convince her she didn't learn some things that contributed to her confidence. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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When you can't go to Africa, or hunting for that matter, go to a shooting school. It simulates the adrenalin pressure that we hunting junkies love. Besides you get lots of trigger time, and who doesn't benefit from that. I have been on at least 10 African safaris plus NZ, OZ and numerous NA big game hunts. I love going to a shooting school before a hunt. It provides an objective observer to catch anything I might be getting sloppy at, and as I said, with timers, running and charging targets, it provides the pressure you can't do yourself on the range. I've gone to Gunsite a dozen times at least, most with Il Ling New and I've learned something new every time. Recently my 12 year old nephew asked me to take him on his first hunt. I took him to Gunsite first and 2 months later he killed 6 ferral pigs on my friends ranch. All 1 shot kills under difficult conditions. He loved it. I've never talked to anyone who attended a class who has regretted going. Best regards, D. Nelson | |||
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Huuummmm - No need for "safari training"? Not unless you are 25 to 75 pounds overweight, only shoot your firearm the week before you leave, can't walk more than a half mile without stopping for a rest, don't have a clue what the animals you are hunting even look like, the only "safari" experience you have is watching it on TV. Please, the above aforementioned items seem to be the norm with a lot of folks on safari these days, just watch the TV Safari shows for example. As a Professional Outfitter here in the Western US, seeing it first hand, I to would venture "a lot" of so called big game hunters could benefit in a course or two to the like that Dr. Juan is speaking of. I have dealt with overweight, out of shape, poor shooting skilled, unsafe gun handling "hunters" in soooo many instances I stopped counting. Sir, if you are one that has no faults, are at the top of your class in hunting skills and shooting skills and know sooooo much that trying to improve your skills is below you, so be it. I seriously doubt you are, so am forced to call  on your "no safari training needed" comment. Have a great day.Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Absolutely. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I agree that ANY training is GOOD training, but I have to agree with Elton that SAAM training is the best I have ever seen. A to Z training on every level of the safari experience. Tim and David Fallon and their team of instructors are the cutting edge of this new type of safari preparation and I have never met a student of their course that was not substantially more prepared for the realities of safari after attending. Dave Fulson | |||
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+1 | |||
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Tier one special operations units utilize civilian schools for pre-deployment training because they are effective. If you think you won't benefit from training, you probably don't know how much you don't know. Check your ego | |||
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That's a profound statement there! The more I learn the more I find I didn't know! . | |||
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You have to start young.How can a fat old man train for anything? | |||
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What is the average cost for a course like this? Are they skill specific courses, like long range 101, or buffalo charge 101, What I mean to ask is if there is only one complete course that covers every hunting scenario or could I just take a course for a especific laking skill I may need to improve, ? Thanks for the insigth. | |||
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Not sure how old "old" is but I went to Gunsite and hunted on my first safari when I was 58. Being fat or old doesn't keep you from identifying the animal you are looking at or keep you from shooting what you aim at and hitting it "proper" as Andrew would say. Yes, you may not be able to walk all day or crawl around on the ground while stalking. You can still have an awesome hunt. My BFF Darin once hunted with a broken leg! Gunsite and other shooting academies teach more than just shot placement. Safe gun handling (and who hasn't seen the videos where hunters are pointing their rifles right into the back of the person in front of them?), stalking techniques, and using varied rests (these can be modified to your age and level of fitness) are just a few of the things I picked up or improved on. I highly recommend going to one of these programs even if you are an experienced hunter. | |||
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I was just having some fun of course.It really makes no difference what age or shape you are in.We make the best of our circumstance plus it is better late than never. | |||
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Sure you were, as usual  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Kind of funny you say that. In watching three different safari shows THIS WEEK, I observed a guy shoot an elephant with a double then clearly jerk that same trigger again before remembering to transition to the second trigger to make the final shot, another hunter fired a round at a buffalo then actually bent over and picked up the empty casing while the bull literally turned and went into the bush, he did not even consider taking a second shot, because he was so intent on wanting to save his brass like he does at the range every time he practises, and last but certainly not least, they once again replayed a video of a "famous host" hunter shooting his buffalo with a 375, he runs, he shoots some more then when it turns on him at 12yds, CLICK, yup he forgot to reload! He sadly fumbles for several very awkward moments trying to reload. Fortunately the buff turned away. So, who needs training? All these guys do! As we train, so shall we react under pressure and I don't think any of these fellows had ever thought through any scenario beyond their making the perfect one shot kill. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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I'm planning on going to Monty's school before my October trip this year. Last year, I didn't shoot enough on my own and was a bit erratic. Made some hard shots; muffed a couple of easy ones. We didn't lose anything, but I made things much more difficult than neccessary on two different occasions. Training and practice is always good, no matter how good you are, once were, or think you are. | |||
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I admit to being biased, I've shot with several of the shooting schools, learned a lot from all of them. But, FTW SAAM schools are the best. Moving realistic targets, realistic action drills, instructors, that beyond having been there, done that, are real hunters with an ethical appreciation for the outdoors. Tim and David have a great program with a comfortable lodge, and a variety of programs. Something for the hunter that needs a tuneup, or a newbie that needs real foundation building. I also use their hunt/class combos for customer entertainment, have a long list of clients ready to return! Without a doubt, the things I learned there, made me a better hunter in Africa, I could take and make shots that most would miss. After spotting, dialing and shooting a 400+ yard mountain zebra, in about five seconds, one of the PH's remarked " you've done that before hmm?" Yes, I have, and practiced it too, at SAAM. But, as I noted, I am biased!!! Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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Shooting at long distance does not require a really great skill,IMO.Aside from having an accurate rifle,a steady rest and memorizing a few scope dial settings,was else is there?-not much. | |||
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Having seen examples of your shooting skill I see why you would say that.  Before my PM box fills with caring posters expressing my need to "ignore the troll". There is no need gentleman. Source of image ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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My wife and I went to Monty Kalagaros' school last year before our DG safari in Zim. We really enjoyed the personal attention and the customized instructions, as well as the fact that he tailored the dates around our schedule. I learned a great deal about the proper technique for improving my results off shooting sticks, and how to better handle my double. My wife's abilities and her confidence improved dramatically. Overall, it was a great help. | |||
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How about folks post up the websites and contact information for all the "safari training and shooting schools" out there? Think this might be of interest and answer some questions we all might have. Thanks. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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Larry ,my friend i dont work for any of the schools but i believe for Africa 3 schools are the best SAAM ,MONTY KALOGERAS,or GUNSITE SAFARI PREP COURSE,Iknow that my good friend DON HEATH is an excellent instructor for Africa too. In Australia there is a school where you kill hundreds of wild game mostly cows and hogs. I have two courses one practical rifle ,you shoot rifle at game mostl at not more than 500mts ,and the other is called COSAR you learn to shoot 3 gun in field operations ,besides tactical med ,tacticas maps ,tracking ,i teach it with spec ops personnel . We have a course of long range shooting but i believe it isnt usefull for African hunters . Juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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Easily. They train differently to a 35 year old in top shape. They train in a manner relevant to their personal benchmark and set to improve from there, just as anyone else would. If they are too unfit, lack shooting skills then any improvement over status quo is , well, and improvement. No? | |||
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Frostbit: I recognize the target you posted above. That was from the shoot at my place a year ago with Rob's .45 acp Thompson--on full auto. See you on the 4th at Birchwood. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Some of these post are becoming more and more ridiculous. Larry calls bullshit on somebody because they feel they do not need safari shooting training. I call bullshit on Larry. Before you ask, I am not overweight, I bike and hike in preparation for every safari. I shoot year round, and can walk for miles in South Louisiana heat or Zimbabwe in October/November with no problem. I have also successfully hunted in Africa each of the last 5 years (which is far more than most) using single shots, bolt guns, and doubles, with scopes and iron sights. Everytime I go to the range, read a book, watch a safari video or Tracks Across Africa I try to learn something. Would a safari school help? No doubt in my mind. Is it needed? Hell no. | |||
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Interesting!! I recall spraying 45ACP all over the place with that Thompson. Good fun. I took the image from a post by Shootaway in the thread I linked to. Wonder how he copped the image? I don't recall him being present at your cabin. I'm working the 4th but I'm going to try and make an appearance if I can. I promise not to "double" your double.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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+1 I've never had any "formal" training but have seemed to manage to be a firearm safety conscious successful hunter at either filling the freezer or the walls. I was personally impressed with the improvement in confidence Joyce (little miss in this thread) brought back from Gunsite and I have little doubt I would also learn some technique improvement should I ever choose to attend such tutorage. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Attention all shooting schools.I need good video proof that your instructors are qualified enough to teach anything. | |||
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Besides Tim Fallon, who has hunted the entire planet a couple of times, not to mention his extensive shooting and training background, all the FTW \ SAAMS instructors are retired Navy SEALS snipers who are still training military shooters of several branches, and each has African safari experience including dangerous game under their belt. I have yet to see a graduate, including myself, come away from the training there and not be A LOT better, and more confident shooter. They also have miles of "video proof" they can send if you are interested. Dave Fulson | |||
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I know a lot of fat old men, a young buck wouldn't last a minute with shootaway. Talking about killing something or someone and doing it are two different things... Particularly if it was that "fat old man's" job for 30 years ... Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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All I believe in is video-especially quick,open-sight, offhand big bore at 50yds. | |||
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By Shootaway. Can one of the moderators please explain how to do that "ignore" thing? I think this would be an appropriate place. Thanks. | |||
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Sorry but the ignore feature does not work on shootaway. | |||
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Click on his name and one of the choices will be "Add to the ignore list". Pretty simple ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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