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Ladies and Gentlemen: Being completely without experience of Africa hunting, I would like to know the longest effective shot that you took on plains game? I'm on the fence about a 30-06 Ackley Improved for the general run of plains game, which would give me a 400 yard perimeter with the 165 grain bullet. On the other hand, would a medium bore with a 300 yard effective range be more useful overall? I'm building a 35 Whelen AI for bear and moose in Alaska, and it looks like I'll be able to push a 225 grain about 2800 fps. Would this suffice for most if not all of plains game hunting in Africa? I would like your opinions based upon the most open range hunting that you have experienced in Africa while hunting plains game, including eland. Thank you. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | ||
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Chris, a lot depends on where in Africa your hunting. Some areas are thick while other areas are very open. However, in some thick areas, you may have a shot at Kudu high up on an open ridge, maybe 200+ yards, while most other shots will be an average of 50 yards in the bush. Open desert areas like in the Kalahari region, may force you to take much longer shots. Same could be said in many Provinces/Countries. Define where your going and the answers won't be so general. As for your Whelen, same above applies. You should have no problems taking the '06. Good hunting, David Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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My longest shot was a little over 300 yards on a mountain reedbuck. But as has been said it all depends on where you plan to hunt. Like in the Free State of RSA 300 yard shots are fairly normal. In Limpopo most of my shots have been 75 yards are less. Good Hunting,  | |||
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Did about a 350 yd shot on a gemsbok in Limpopo, so they all aren't always close. | |||
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I'll agree that a lot depends on where you're going to be hunting. When I was in RSA, I hunted in Limpopo, East Cape and Free State provinces. In East Cape and Free State, I took two animals with my .300 Win Mag at distances approaching 450 yards. In Limpopo, everything was taken at less than 75 yards. Sometimes "close" isn't all that close. | |||
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My longest ranged shot was on a vaal rhebok at a measured 303 yards. I used a .300 weatherby pushing a 180 grain bullet based on my outfitters suggestion. Made sense due to tricky winds in the mountains. My longest shot was at a cape eland bull in the mountains of the East Cape. I don't know how far it was but I aimed at the top of his head to hit him. Not well I might add. I would not do it again as it bordered being unethical. But I was younger and more impressionable back then. And a bit more cocksure of my shooting abilities. Funny how wisdom comes with age... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Longest shot was in Namibia on a kudu with a .338 Win. - 315 yards. Also shot a blesbok in South Africa at 303 yards with that rifle. All other shots were less than 300; many were less than 200. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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Practice is the key, but not shooting at 400 yds! Practice at getting closer to the animal! ........................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Sometimes it isn't possible to get closer. A lot depends on where you are hunting. There are some really wide open spaces. I have shot 2 springbuck over 400 yards. I don't remember the exact distance. Closer to 400 than 500 though. I shot an oribi in Tanzania at 435 yards. On my last trip, I shot nothing over 200. | |||
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Same critter and just about the same distance for my longest shot in the Eastern Cape. We lasered mine at 347. | |||
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470 yards on a very respectable Springbok in an open area in the Kalahari. Missed it the first shot,way under! Memorable for sure! Best offhand shot,Sable at 225 through the trees facing head on! 46"+; looking at it now! Most other shots well under 100 yards. Closest, Lion at 15 yards head on and moving fast! Jim | |||
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Took at Gemsbok at a lasered 418 yards at last light, after stalking and chasing all day. Not my usual way to hunt, but sometimes that's all you get on a Plains Game hunt, especially if you're after a specific trophy animal.. | |||
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Larry, now that is impressive! I have shot a couple Oribi's, I don't think I could even see one at 435 yards. | |||
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80% of my shots have been inside 100 yds 19% of my shots have been between 100-200 yds and 1 shot prone over my pack at 340 yds Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Aaron: It wasn't easy. The scope on my 300 WM would crank up to 14 power. I will admit to missing the first time. I was a lot younger then. My eyes were better. | |||
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Zebra was at 150 Kudu at 225 Gemsbok at 425 Yes it's cocked, and it has bullets too!!! | |||
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Longest was a Kafue Flats Lechwe lasered at a little over 300 yards with a .375 using 300 grain TSX. Hit with a high shoulder hit, and he fell on the spot. Shortest was a Buff bull at just under 10 yards, and he didn't know I was there until hit. I tend to have trouble seeing the game at long distance, but given time, have hit pretty well (which is not to say I haven't made some spectacular misses...) | |||
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Lechwe 350 yards with a 375 H&H Black Wildebeest 385 yards with a 300 RUM Springbok 335 yards with a 300 RUM (looked like a Hilton's dog that far away) Most animals, though, all under 150 yards. 200-250 yards is above average. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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Hartebeeste at 350yds in Namibia;Eland in Zim at 272 yds both with .375 H&H. Neither took a step. Agree with close shots more common, but sometimes you will want to reach out. .375 is wonderful for most scenarios. In Alaska ,as well. Jim | |||
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You gentlemen have not had the pleasure of hunting with some of the PHs I have. We will crawl until we are 40 yards from a group of buffalo bulls, and my PH would say. "They are bit too far. Let us get closer. We crawl some more, until we get to a large tree. Trouble is, the buffalo are less than 10 yards from the tree! On another occasion, we followed an eland, then found him standing in the shade of a tree. Trouble was, there was an open area between us and him over 500 yards away. We walked in the open getting closer, then about 400 yards away, my PH puts up the shooting sticks and says "You have to aim a bit high". I shot an impala at a measured 425 yards. He was facing away, and I hit him in the rear end, the bullet coming out at the shoulder-neck junstion. My Ph says "you shot him too far back!" Someone should tart a school to teach common sense to PHs! | |||
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OT a bit....but referring to your expectation of a 225 gr bullet doing 2800 fps...What length barrel? I am concerned about safety only & not about the technical / theoretical issues of right or wrong. I would expect about 10% increase in capacity with an AI case and the thumb rule of a 5% increase in velocity. With a 24" barrel, I'd expect 2700 fps max with safe pressures. Looking at it another way - the 9.3X62 is very similar to an AI case & a 232gr bullet would max out at 2700 fps. Good luck on your trip. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Namibia, 2009, Kudu, shooting uphill, 300 Weatherby, 200 grain Nosler Partition at 3000fps, one shot perfectly place through the heart, he took 8-10 steps forward and fell dead. Ranged after the shot at 392 yards, my longest shot ever and certainly lady luck was smiling that day. I like to generally 'git a little bit closer'. Paul "Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas" NRA Benefactor Member Member DRSS | |||
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First off, I do not like taking long shots.... for me thats anything over 250 yards. But its the last afternoon of the 7 day hunt in the Eastern Cape and the big kudu bulls have been elusive. Then we find one just about to go over a hill but now standing broadside in a small opening. PH ranges it, I have a very solid, snug rest with the 300 Weatherby Mag. and we both agree on the holdover. Dropped dead in his tracks at 491 yards, didnt take a step. That was a few years ago. I just got back from Africa and the longest shot taken was just under 200 yards. Thats more to my liking. | |||
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From the point of view of a PH, I never encourage a hunter to take a shot he's not comfortable with or that I don't think he or she can make. I've been incredibly over the years to come across some truly fantastic riflemen and one riflewoman. I've had several clients take a variety of game, mostly at Grant's & Thompson's gazelles at 400 odd yards but probably the most memorable shots I've seen were Mrs Shakari who took 5 or 6 impala in an afternoon (for baits). All were facing her and all at 280 - 300 metres and all were taken just under the chin and all dropped in their tracks. (I taught her well)  The other two shots that spring to mind were from a 18 or 19 year old Texan lad who took a (golf ball sized target) brain shot on a croc at 280 metres (measured later with a rangefinder) and a few days later, a buffalo at just 4 yards. All brilliant shots in their own ways.  On the other hand, I once saw a guy who not only couldn't hit an A4 target at 20 metres, he couldn't hit the box it was fixed to or even the bloody great termite mound it was sitting on.  | |||
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Ladies and Gentlemen: Thank you for your experiences and advice. Based upon your input, 30-06 AI it is with the 165 grain bullet at or near 3100 fps for the smaller plains game. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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A blue and black wildebeest between 300-350 yards, a zebra at 300-310, ranged with my Bushnell. A 53" kudo ranged by the ph with his eq , he said 425 but was closer to 475 or 500, my Bushnell would not read. Shot was very low, but we heard the hit, I fired at him on the run 3 times and hit him twice, he was recovered after a hour of tracking and searching. First shot was a miss , and was a perfect brain shot on a calf. I felt really bad about the calf, PH felt it was his fault ( I wanted to get closer because the wind was blowing 15 to 20mph, he did not want to spook the animal), nobody could have seen the female calf because of the grass. No trophy fee for the calf but it was fine eating. All were shot with Barnes 270gr tsx, 1/2 moa Montana ph 1999 in 375H&H except for the blue wildebeest that was shot with a custom 416 rem,mag inter-arms mark x with the 350 tsx. It is also a solid 1/2 moa rifle. I took a rest on a fence post for the Kudo, every thing else was off hand no sticks. I had shot at least 500 rounds of 308 and 500 rounds of big bore and a 1000 22 LR in practice the year before the hunt. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Maybe I haven't hunted enough plains game or enough in enough different places but my longest shot was 265 yards at a Vaal Rhebuck. 465H&H | |||
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Limpopo Red Hartebeest at 242 yards with 30-06, 180 grain Barnes. That is a long shot for me, but we ran out of cover and the animal knew we were there. Staggered two steps and dropped. -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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My first trip to South Africa, I was hunting Springbok in the Karoo. The guide asked me to cull an animal for him but he kept running away, not allowing us to get within 500 yards.Finally the PH (land owner) said he didn't care if I killed the entire herd, he wanted that one dead. We came over a slight hill and saw the herd in the distance. The PH ranged them at just past 800 yards. I was shooting a custom built Brown Precsion 300 WM with a fixed 6 power Ziess scope. I held high and to the left, squeesed the trigger and the buck ran off at full speed, but only for 50 yds before piling up, shot dead through the heart. The PH slapped me on the back and said, "My god man, that was the most brillant shot I've ever seen". The as he turned away he said, "or the luckiest". Shots in that area are typically long, but not that long. | |||
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Three of us hunted the very open area of Southern Namibia where shots are much longer than in most African hunting areas. We were equipped with a .30-06, .300 Winchester, and .338 Winchester. I made the longest shot (at the insistance of our host, who was mostly curious about our capabilities) on a springbok at about 400 meters with my .338. However, the guy with the .30-06 did just as well the others and was in no way handicapped by the smaller round. Your '06 improved will be just fine. Incidentally, using an imaginary chrongraph is by far the best way to achieve satisfaction with an Ackley Improved round. They are capable of about 50 fps more than the parent when loaded optimally. If you are actually getting 3100 fps with a 165 grain bullet, then you might find it handier to either chop six inches off of your 32" barrel or reduce your pressures to allow your brass to survive to be used a second time. | |||
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Yale: My experience on PG in three countries is similar to Mike_Dettorre's. 80% have been shot at under 100 yards, some well under. About 20% at 100 to 150. A couple of springbok at about 200, and one Heartebeest at a little over 250. I've used a 338WM, a 338-06, a 35 Whelen Imp (with standard Whelen loads because my rifle shoots them more accurately), and a 300Wea. As for your 35 Whelen Improved project, I took mine to Namibia one year and it knocked the snot out of everything, although nothing was shot at over 150. I shoot modest loads in this rifle with both 225 and 250 grain bullets at about 2600 and 2500 respectively. Regards. 114-R10David | |||
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328 metres on a springbok in the Free State in 2004, 370 metres on a black wildebeest this past April on the Mpumalanga highveld, not far from my home. Both measured with a rangefinder. Both with the .30-06. Stick to 180's - they carry a bit more freight at longer distances for my money. | |||
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I just got back from Namibia. My longest shoot was about 450 yds. on a Springbuck. I shot two Gemsbuck and two more Spring buck at 350 to 400 yards. I was using a 7mm Wby. This was a management hunt in the Kalihari. In the East Cape I had a chance at an East Cape Kudu at 415 yds. but never took the shot because he never stopped walking. That one will haunt me forever. The PH said "that's the biggest E.C. Kudu I have ever seen". Be prepaired to make long shots comfortably, 400 to 500 yds., Sometimes it's the only chance you have. We hunted him for six days and never saw him again. Practice, practice, practice at distance. Your 30-06 AI is plenty of gun for plains game. Shooting it well is the key. Don't worry about speed, accuracy is much more important. You only need about 1000 Ft/lbs. of energy to kill plains game. I use 1500 ft/lbs. as my limit which is usually well beyond my comfortable shooting range. My closest shot was 2 yds. on an upset Cape Buff. As Capstick says "He was grazing on my shoelaces"....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Thank you all again for your detailed experience. Isn't it interesting that the old stand by calibers like the 30-06 with modern powder and bullets still really "work". If I weren't a gun and reloading nut, I'd probably use a 7x57 and 30-06 for just about everything, but the Ackley bug bit me, and I'm infected. I just love easy extraction, less bolt thrust and only the occasional case trimming, not to mention some nice velocity increases as far as my 7x57 AI is concerned. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Dear Tapper2: I have very limited long range hunting experience, but I belong to a range here in Pennsylvania with a 400 yard target. It was really cool to see how little drop there was with 55 gr. Nosler BT's in my 243 Winchester going in excess of 4000 fps. Once the barley is cut though, there is a Pennsylvania state games land spot where I can set up for 400 yard ground hog shots probably in the next few weeks. I did move up to 70 grain TNT's, since the 55 gr. bullets at 4000 fps were so damn loud. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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In 4 hunts in Botawana hunting in both the Okavango Delta and in the Kalahari I have only taken one shot beyond 150yds and that was a Red lechewe at a PH estimated 300 yds. One shot with a 30-06 180 gr. Virtually all other shots were less than 150 yds, in fact virtually all were less than 100 yds. Closest, Cape Buffalo at 30 yds. 30-06 should work just fine. | |||
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Yeah, it is. Took a Nyassa wildebeest at 300 in the Selous with a 300 gr. A Frame. Knocked him down on a shoulder shot and put a finisher in, but he wasn't going anywhere. The .375 will do it all. | |||
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Shakari LIES i hit the termite mound With the hunting truck  | |||
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I used a 35 Whelen last August in Botswana. Pushed a 250 gr. Northfork at 2480fps. Took game (zebra, kudu) out to 280 yds with it. Your AI should certainly work | |||
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302 yards on a Zebra -375 H&H with 300 grain TSX 260 yards on a Springbok -300 WSM with 180 grain Partition Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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