The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Last Northern White Rhino diesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Last Northern White Rhino dies | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
My wife told me it is all over Facebook. The last Northern White Rhino has died. Apparently, of old age. Was the Northern White Rhino genetically different that (Southern) White Rhino race we find in South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Namibia? | ||
|
One of Us |
So very sad  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
|
| Administrator |
Yes I did see that! Terrible news. Just imagine if this was bred for hunting! This sad news would not have occurred! Call it whatever you you like, canned, farm bred or whatever but it would keep them alive be! | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you are going to farm them and harvest the horn do that. I would rather see them pass into history than raised in a feed lot and shot. | |||
|
| Administrator |
What an awful, and STUPID thing to even think about! So because you would not hunt them, you would rather see them extinct!!?? My God, this really boggles the mind! Reminds me of King Solomon and the two women claiming the baby. I heard this very same thing from a deranged, stupid, English woman who claimed she was a conservationist, and anti hunting. She said "I would rather not see any elephants on earth than see them being hunted" Are you sure you are not masquerading as a hunter but in reality you are just like her?? | |||
|
| One of Us |
I do not want them extinct. If they could have been farmed and the horn removed and sold. Good and fine. But yes, if the only way this race could have survived is to feed lot them and shoot them, I would rather see them go. I will not cry eliteism if elephant qouta is one and cost 1 millions dollars, and I never get to hunt them. If that is what it takes for the species to survive and provide habit, I am all for it. On the other extreme i would rather see elephants pass then survive only in feed lots and zoos. It is not about not being able to hunt them. I do not accept an animal can only survive in a feed lot senrio only to be shoot. You can call me whatever you want. | |||
|
One of Us |
Rhino on ranches in South Africa are not in feedlots. People hunt them on these ranches routinely. Are you against that? Cause without them...rhino would be very near extinction today. SA hunting ranches likely saved the southern white rhino. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I know they are not. If someone could have done for this race what John Humne did for (Southern) White Rhino. My hat would be off to them and they would have my respect. Saeed specificity refernced canned hunting as a viable tool that may have saved this race. I am sorry, if the only why a species, any species, can survive is through feed lots or stock pounds, I would rather see that species come to an end. I stated in the canned lion hunting thread that hunting captive reared lion in a form described by Aaron Neilson I could not and do not object to. The benefit outweighed any perceived harm. I feel the same way about white rhino targeted on ranches in South Africa. It can and I accept is being done right were the benefit outweighs any perceived harm. A member of this forum last summer, may have been later, posted about his difficult decision to engage in this type of hunt. He ultimately decided to undergo the hunt. His post was very informative of the process and his enteral rational to engage and not to engage. I owe that person a great deal of respect and gratitude for including all of us on a important and personal decision. I am sorry I cannot remember the memeber or post name. The Outfitter has my respect. He does it right. Again, I am truly sorry to all involved in that hunt that I cannot remember names. You deserve to be mentioned. However, let us not act like all those outfitters acted in an ecological minded mannor. I have read at least one the dart/green hunted rhino died from being overly targeted and darted. Craig Boddington reported this in one of his books. If someone demands a citations. I will provide it. In conclusion, I do not respect those who engage in captive reared penned shooting. I do not want to see any species survive in a kill mill sencerio. If that is the only why any species can survive. Let histroy embrace it. That is my response to Saeed’s lamente that this race did not survive even through canned hunting. There is a cost that is too much. This is mine. I fully support any ranch scenario that is breeding rhino and utilizing that resource in a respectful and ecologically minded manor. That includes limited hunting of older, non breeding animals. Especially, given the fact that the international community would rather see rhino go extinct through poaching than crash the black market with a legitimaized, controlled, and transparent market. Is that so bad a belief system. To circle the ring, there are more Bengal tigers in captivity than in the wild. I would rather see this species go than only survive in private menageries, zoos, and animal shows. Being able to hunt them or not has nothing to do with it. It is the relegation to a performance piece (for lack of an ability to articulate) that I lament. I ask this in all sincerity and humility, is the Northern White Rhino genetically different that a (Southern) White Rhino? I ask out of hope that the North race is not lost to history. I have givempn the best defense of my world view on the subject that I can. I do not ask that you agree. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry to hear that news!! What a shame... | |||
|
One of Us |
Heymm sounds just like the Sierra Club people that were against California Condors in the vwild being captured and placed in enclosures at the San Diego Wild Animal Park in an effort to save them. Hunters or people that CLAIM to be huntersa never cease to amaze me. They seem incapable of comprehending that ANY/EVERY species that becomes extinct just makes our own extinction that much more probable. I can not help but wonder what color the sky is in the world these people that believe extintion of as species is preferrable than saving it, even if it is a captive situation! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Solution. Take all the confiscated rhino horn. Inject it with cyanide. And sell it on the black market. Then, after a few people die, announce that you did it. Anyone want any rhino horn after that? | |||
|
| One of Us |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting: Heymm sounds just like the Sierra Club people that were against California Condors in the vwild being captured and placed in enclosures at the San Diego Wild Animal Park in an effort to save them. Hunters or people that CLAIM to be huntersa never cease to amaze me. They seem incapable of comprehending that ANY/EVERY species that becomes extinct just makes our own extinction that much more probable. I can not help but wonder what color the sky is in the world these people that believe extintion of as species is preferrable than saving it, even if it is a captive situation |
Dr. Easter, I read this was the last male of this subspecies. I don’t know if females have survived. Do you know if AI is possible with rhinos? If not, what about cloning? I know your specialty is equestrian, specifically a lot of cutting horses. Are you familiar with Cambiaso’s polo pony cloning operation? I read about it in layman’s terms, but it seems to have been successful. LHeym, I disagree with your view on this. You often make salient points, but not here. Do you really think this subspecies would be offered on trophy price lists any time soon? It’s about saving the last of a great subspecies, not making them available to hunt. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
The article I read said there was an experimental in vitro procedure, but gave no indication if it would be tried or details. It was posted in Field and Stream. The article was called, “Are We Appoaching the End of Hunting.” DCS I have said that I have no issue if they could have been ranced in a ecological minded, yes respectful, humane mannor. My issue was with the insinuation by Saeed that saving the species was apporiate even through canned hunting. I accept this species was never about creating a hunting opportunity. I am suspicious of any ranch breeding operation. Folks maltreat cows and dogs in breeding programs every day. I also readily admit it can and has been done right. I cannot say that I can get behind cloning. That may be the Baptist prejudice in me. However, if you told me we could clone Northern White Rhino back to life. I would not say nothing and take a wait and see appoarch. I do not live by an all cost mentality. Some cost are too high. Specifically, feed lot raising of this species like cattle on a commercial farm here in the US to be shot is too high from my point of view. I made that observation as a rebuttal to Saeed’s statements that it would be better to have the species survive for canned hunting. No animal deserves to be raised and die in the manor the canned crocodile was killed in. Even, if the hunter would have shot better. Crazyhorse: The ethic of hunting and conservation is to expand or prevent the depletion of wild animals and habbitat. Once, they become captive they are live stock. I am fine with that as long as there are regulations in places and enforced that prevent abuse of the resource and to the detriment of hunting. The point is lead bullets may cause the demise of Condors faster. My question was would you vote to give up lead bullets to potentially expand Condors in their native range? It was more relevant inquiry than your silly sky color cleshay. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What I am saying has nothing to do with lead bullets or the hunting of any species, but the survival of a species, any species should be important to all humans, even if the survival of that species is only possible thru captive management! Heym in reading your comments you appear to be a concerned, earnest individual that has a real interest in the outdoors and animals in more than just for hunting. A lot of us feel that way, but to openly state that it is better for a species to become extinct than to be kept alive in a captive situation, really goes against the way many of us that live to hunt feel about wildlife in general. What good does it do the world in general for any species to go extinct that could be preserved, even if only in captivity. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks. I’ll try to look it up. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
It bwill all de[pend on whether or not semen had been collected from this animal and if any females that might still be alive are able to be AI'ed and can conceive and carry a fetus full term. If there are no females of that particular species/subspecies available a female Southern White Rhino might be AI'ed and be a surrogate mother. Lane can explain this a lot better than I can. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| one of us |
Think of all the animals hunting and farm breeding keeps alive. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Crazyhorse: I went back and re-read this post. Thank you for the post. I will extend and say that it is not captivity that I do not support. It is what the captivity would look like that I would have issue with. I can do nothing but give examples. I could not accept pen raised and living in feed lots waiting to be shot or as a center piece to somebody’s private menagerie. Let the species go. However, with proper regulation and enforcement to insure the captivity is less restrictive as possible, humane, and respectful to the animal. I would accept and support that. I would in my heat of hearts lament that the world had come to that, but as I tell my more eveanglical brother, “You have to deal with the world how it is not how you wish it was.” I hope this better explains my position and is common ground the majority can except. Thank you for your respectful and thought provoking post. | |||
|
| One of Us |
First off, in the case of this species I do not believe anyone wants to preserve them or breed them to a point where shooting one for a trophy would be acceptable. The only real consideration I can envision concerning the long term surviva;l of this or ANY of the other rhinos, is protecting them from poachers and to myself that would/should include relocating the remaining anima;ls, if there are any, to Texas or California or some place where poaching will never be an issue. As long as the Chinese and other orientals desire the horns of rhinos/ivory from elephants and various body parts from lions and other species, poaching will bring about the extinction of more spercies than any other factor. Like it or not, for future generations to be able to see and/or possibly hunt some species, controlled/protected captive management may be or is the only way some of these species will survive. Just to give you a glimpse of my feelings on this, I have been enamored with the American Buffalo, and NO I rarely if ever refer to them as Bison, since I was a little kid. The greatest thing in my life is that for over 25 years, I have been able to work with buffalo at both a zoo and now on a ranch, I even hand raised one, his name was Crazyhorse, and I would not trade the experiences I have had working with those extremely special animals for any amount of money, and I thank God everyday that people like Charles Goodnight and Michel Pablo took the time and effort to help preserve such as magnificent species. No matter the specioes, the world is a poorer place when one is lost. We humans are supposed to be the stewards of the planet and if a species can be saved, it is our duty to save it whether it will ever reach a stable/huntable population or not. I am sure that the comments above seem stupid to some, but I believe if humans can destroy a species, they have the power and ability to save a species from total destruction/extinction. Extinction is forever, and as for me, I would rather see the species alive and contained inside a fence, thern in a glass case, stuffed, insdide a museum. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
CHC, Very well put. I think back to the “Three Amigos” which have survived extinction in their native habitats (dama gazelle, schimtar oryx, and addax) by Texas game farmers/ranchers. Yes, as huntable species. Huntable because they were sustained here. However, they were decimated in their native lands. In addition, nilgai could be added to that list. Heck, blackbuck and a few others. It is still a sad day for the northern white rhino. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
One of Us |
20 plus years ago when my family was involved in the exotic animal industry some Texas ranchers and vets were using eland as a vessel for bongo reproduction using flushed embryos. I believe that white rhinos were used in a similar fashion for black rhinos. I would imagine the cost would be substantial. I do not know. A friend of mine is an MD that dabbles in Vet work on her own livestock and has several black baldies that she has inserted AI/Embryo flush Dexter calves into to increase the yield of her dexter crop. She claims that reproduction is not rocket science. If I was young and single I'd head straight to a Veterinary or PHD program in animal science reproduction, and concentrate on rare species. I think you could turn a good profit on LDE eland, Bongo and kudu in Texas doing it. When I retired from the military I had way too many little kids at home and child support to pay to risk a financial venture like vet or med school. I was accepted into the Vet program in the Bahamas but decided against it. I wish I could get more wildlife management animal science propagation training locally. That would be incredible. My BS is in wildlife management. | |||
|
| One of Us |
This is a great example of exactly what happens when hunting stops! Kenya closed hunting in 1975, taking away a lot of value from their wildlife and most of the income that protected that same wildlife. Sci, DSC, all the alphabet wildlife associations should be screaming this from the roof tops! . | |||
|
| One of Us |
My hope is that the Southern race and Northern race are genetically the same. I think that is the best hope. I have asked others in non hunting circles, but no one had provided a response. It may not be in their best interest to do so. Good post Crazyhorse. I am going to start a thread I think we all can enjoy. It involves a teacher (my wife) and a fourth grade class. It will be tonight. | |||
|
| Administrator |
Exactly! They should use this in comparison to the white rhinos in South Africa! Let us see what answer the loonies will have then! | |||
|
| one of us |
John Hume seems to be doing his bit.  there's a conservation success story here, but he still has problems with poachers.https://www.iol.co.za/news/sou...hino-breeder-2064943 Grizz Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln Only one war at a time. Abe Again. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am most gracious of what John Hume has done. I have said so many times. Now, that South Africa has decided to engage in Zimbabwe style land confiscation. I fear his properties along with his rhino will be targeted. Maybe be that fear is not rational. I hope someone can say so. | |||
|
| one of us |
I get LLHeym's point and respect it. There are resemblances with my viewpoint on that scenario... By all accounts, Sudan was the last remaining MALE Northern WR, survived by his "daughter" and "grand daughter". Yes they have secured enough semen from Sudan to try to "save" the species but attmepts to date to use the 2 females (daughter and grand daughter) as surrogates have failed. ther eis talk about trying to use Southern WR for the same but i don't think they have done so yet?? I may be worng on this last account. It is a real shame if indeeditis the end of the road for the NOrthern WR, but all kinds of species go extinct for different reasons while at the same time, evolution produces new ones..... sure is hard to accept when man is the cause for the demise of such an iconic specie. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes this northern white rhino example should be the focus and main preoccupation of SCI and other hunting organizations today.Sadly there is no mention of this on the SCI web site or their facebook page.This is another opportunity lost and the average person will think the northern white rhino was just made extinct by trophy hunters. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Point is, apart from the event that killed off the dinosaurs, humans are directly responsible in one manner or another for the extinction of all species since the age of mammals began. Quaggas/Passenger Pigeons/Labrador Ducks/Dodo's etc. But just as guilty as we as a species are in bringing about the extinction of species, we have also shown the ability, with excellent success of being able to bring species back from the brink of extinction. I hope that will happen with ther Northern White Rhino. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
As an aside I recently read "The Last Rhinos: My Battle to Save One of the World's Greatest Creatures" by Lawrence Anthony. It is an interesting book if only because it shows the difficulty in getting something done in modern Africa. Anthony had a plan to relocate the last remaining northern white rhinos to Kenya but in the process he gets mixed up with the Lord's Resistance Army and Joseph Kony. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The news report I saw said that there were three northern white rhinos left, and they were all old. There was the male that just died, and two females. They said that sperm had been harvested from him and is in cold storage, but they did not know if harvesting eggs was possible. I got the impression that the attempt was going to be made. I hope they are successful and are able to bring them back. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= DRSS; NRA; Illinois State Rifle Association; Missouri Sport Shooting Association “One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” – Thomas Sowell, “The Vision Of The Anointed: Self-Congratulation As A Basis For Social Policy” . | |||
|
| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Crazy, I really doubt humans have caused all extinctions since the dinosaur event. If one buys in to evolution, this is a normal process...even with humans in the mix. That doesn’t mean that our actions have no impact, but that the extinction is a natural reaction to the environment. I have read several papers on some of the North American issues. The passenger pigeon was not hunted to extinction, but rather it was killed by the habitat it needed being reduced below its amount needed for maintaining the species. Yes, that was human, but it was deforestation and change to agriculture that did most of the damage. As Dr. Easter has posted here before, it looks like cattle borne brucellosis had more to do with the bisons decline than market shooting, and then fencing and agriculture prevented the normal return of the species. So really it’s more a change in the environment that causes issues for species. Sure, hunting to excess can push a stressed species over the edge, but in today’s world, hunting tends to pay for habitat to be preserved over and above what the government is willing to pay for. Given that habitat is the biggest issue along with poaching as a secondary one, we need to try to help encourage sustainable use rather than encourage the litany that hunting has resulted in extinctions. Personally, I feel that the game ranching business has helped save several species, and even if it is purely canned shooting, the ability to save the genetic diversity for reintroduction is better than letting it perish. The article I read on the northern white rhino essentially said that the Kenyan area they were living in were stating that they needed in excess of $200,000 per insemination to do in vitro and that they didn’t have the cash, but hoped others would come forward to help. I have wondered if we would take a hands off approach to black rhino game ranching in Texas (in other words allow them to sell horn and hunts) just what would happen. The only guy I know who raises exotics said that rhino are a no go due to FWS regs and monitoring make it impossible to offset any of the costs. If that is the case, shame on USFWS. Given that white rhino are even more amenable to ranching than black, as shown by the South Africans, we should be able to save them, if we have the will to do it. | |||
|
one of us |
I didn't see where Crazy stated hunting was responsible for extinctions. Rather, he said humans have been responsible for most of them, as in: "Point is, apart from the event that killed off the dinosaurs, humans are directly responsible in one manner or another for the extinction of all species since the age of mammals began. Quaggas/Passenger Pigeons/Labrador Ducks/Dodo's etc." And your own statements above, verify exactly what he said  BTW, market hunting was ALSO a big reason for the pigeon and bison declines. The demand for the pigeons was food; the demand for the bison was their tongues and their hides. Most of the latter were shipped to Europe. And...slaughter of the bison was encouraged by the U.S. government in an effort to starve the native Americans. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| one of us |
This is a snippet from an article I wrote about bison in AZ way back in the 1980s. *********** According to the historians, the American bison might have existed in Arizona during prehistoric times. In contrast, estimates of their numbers living in the rest of the country during the 19th century often mention billions. In reality a truer estimate would be in the millions. When Lewis and Clark explored westward, they told of masses of buffalo, sometimes numbering more than 20,000 within sight of their wagons. The explorers also related how the huge herds darkened the Great Plains and seemingly made the land look like it was constantly moving. Other accounts tell of the concern the settlers had for their own safety as they occasionally used up several days moving their wagons through a single herd. Before the white man began his move West, the buffalo's only enemy was the American Indian. For them, the big mammal meant survival. The meat from one could feed an entire village for days. The hides became clothing and shelter. Because the buffalo provided these basic necessities of life and were so numerous, the tribes depended on them. They followed a particular herd for months at a time and developed ways to harvest the beasts with the primitive weapons available to them. Stampeding a herd to its death was a favorite technique. Indians on horseback drove the animals off a steep cliff or into dead-end canyons where they systematically dispatched them with spears or arrows. Some indian hunters covered themselves with a buffalo hide and stalked into the herd or waited patiently for one to come to their imitation call of a calf in distress. Yet, while the indians used the buffalo to survive, the white man was responsible for its downfall. Expeditions, made up of hunters from eastern America and Europe, came out west with the express idea of slaughter in mind. To them, the final tally of dead bison on the ground was a sign of their success. When train travel across the Great Plains later became a reality, the slaughter continued. While crews laid the tracks for the iron horses, hired buffalo hunters kept them supplied with meat. Usually, they removed only the choice parts and left the rest to rot or as food for scavengers. Once completed, the railroads provided a new sport. Shooting the animals from a slow-moving train turned into the entertainment of choice for westward-bound passengers. Naturally, given the weapons of the day and inexperience of those shooting the large creatures, many buffalo died a lingering death after being wounded. Suddenly, in the 1870s, a new boom helped put the American bison closer to extinction. With the advent of a revolutionary tanning process, the trade in buffalo hides expanded. The leather was far more durable than cowhide, and the grand buffalo population made it fairly easy to obtain. Both the white man and Indian quickly entered the hide-trading market. While the Indians continued to use the entire buffalo, the white hunters usually removed the hide and left the rest. Most were shipped off to Europe for tanning. In 1884, congress finally passed legislation protecting the buffalo from further damage. Unfortunately, by then it was too late. The slaughter had taken its toll earlier. Already in 1883, few bison remained on the Great Plains. Some historians say the population in the U.S. had dropped below 800. Since than, the buffalo number has increased to about 30,000 in North America. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
One of Us |
2 female northern rhinos alive. Mother and daughter. | |||
|
| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tony, it is highly unlikely that humans had anything to do with most extinctions since the dinosaurs as there have been several mass extinction events, most of which predate humanity. As to the bison disease issue, that research was more recent than your article. Was there a impact from market hunting? Sure. Was hunting a major contributor? If the research I read was right, no. Bison natively had no resistance to brucellosis and bovine tb. The herd was going to die back to minimal density regardless. They could have recovered in the abscence of massive habitat removal, but that was what affected them most- fencing, water source control, alteration of migration routes, and continued exposure to novel diseases from domestic stock. Given this is historical and the folks back then didn't have the scientific tools we have now, it is probably impossible to prove one way or the other. look at the Saiga antelope now. They are dying off in numbers and researchers are not quite sure why. They have a virus, yet they are also entertaining a bunch of other contributing factors. Species will go extinct regardless of humanity, it’s just our responsibility to avoid contributing to it and it may happen anyhow despite our best efforts. I know we have contributed to extinctions in our way, but I have not seen anything that shows human hunting is solely or being the greatest contributor to many, if any. We blamed the dodo, the passenger pigeon and the mammoth on hunting in the past, but since then it has been demonstrated that it takes more than one thing to finish a species. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Last Northern White Rhino dies
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia