That is a step in the right direction .

There are three areas of concern that lead me to my statements:
1) That this forum keeps coming back around the Hornady Dangerous Game Series (DGS) either issues with the cartridge/load or bullets that very well could get someone hurt or killed.
2) Hornady used to claim that the DGS was individually loaded. I took this to mean that each round was loaded on single stage press. I should have known better. But the very basic quality control issue of weighing each round or box of ammo was not followed. I saw this squib load issue with the critical defense .380. That was in 2012. So, this is not just a one off. Mr. Hornady's response was not very customer friendly/supportive.
3) I have had good results with the 375 interlockts factory ammonition. The picture of the 416 above is pretty picture of that bullet. However, on the size animal it was used against versus the size animal that it is intended to be used the bullet should have exited.
It is the volume of these reports with Hornady, and their disregard when their customers express the short commings that make one not want to buy their product.

I agree with the idea that Hornady is responsible for large and double rifle cartidges being given a new life. Like I said, they make the most, most affordable, and when they load the cartridge people make rifles for it. I would like to support them for this alone. I will, for practice and brass.

There is no tar and feather mob here. These are legitimate concerns that need to be voiced.

Mr. Bobster you posted your update of company contact while I was typing. I am glad they are making the individual customer right. The next step is to insure quality control that this does not happen again. There are mistakes and then there are what the blanks. No powder in a Dangerous Game round is a what the blank.

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
On a Crock hunt I could not get them 375 HH to group 8 in in 100 yards not even close for a crock brain shot. lucky I had some Remington ammo that did the trick. Use their casing all the time though

When I load I run each and every reload through my chamber. In addition I weigh each finished cartridge . Cannot be to sure with dangerous game

Ivan Carter will use nothing else?

In 450 3,25 there is no altwrnative in Germany unfortunately.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Ivan Carter will use nothing else?

It would appear not:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJpXYK9MVv8

I am not sure if Ivan is still being sponsored by Hornady.

Larry yea that clip looks a few years old....

I spoke to Ivan yesterday just before he left for Africa. When he calls me again , I will ask him.

He is tied in with Shockey now. Since Shockey is sponsored by Nosler, I am willing to bet he is not using Hornady. That is a total guess on my part.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I spoke to Ivan yesterday just before he left for Africa. When he calls me again , I will ask him.

He is tied in with Shockey now. Since he is sponsored by Nosler, I am willing to bet he is not using Hornady. That is a total guess on my part.

Hahaha!

One reason I never listen to anyone who is being PAID to tell me what is best!

It eventually works out what is best is made whoever pays more

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:

When I load I run each and every reload through my chamber. In addition I weigh each finished cartridge . Cannot be to sure with dangerous game[/QUOTE]

+1

I do exactly the same thing. Notice that no African PH has chimed in on this thread extolling the merits of Hornady bullets or ammo.

+2

Ever since I had a round in a double without powder

And totally my fault!

Sorry to hear some of you folks have had issues with Hornady Factory Ammo! For the past 4 - 5 years, I've used Hornady Factory Ammo as a sponsored tv host. In that time, I've shot roughly 10 cape buffalo, 2 leopards, numerous lions, numerous hippos, at least 1 elephant - as well as several Australian buffalo, South American buffalo/stag, New Zealand stag/tahr/chamois, Asian game and plenty of big N/A game too. All with Hornady factory ammo - and in all of those hunts, I've only had 1 issue with the factory ammo (1 bullet failure). Seemed to me to be an acceptable allowance - considering the number of rounds I've fired with no problem at all.

I've used plenty of other ammo too - and have had on the same rare occasion a failure, but not at any greater / lesser rate than with the Hornady ammo.

I mostly use the .416 Ruger on DG - with the 400 gr. DGX / DGS ammo. The combo is a buffalo smasher IMO!

I can't speak for others, but my overall opinion is the ammo has performed very well. Sorry to see others have not had the same experience!

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
+2

Ever since I had a round in a double without powder

And totally my fault!

One regret I have is that we did not pull the bullet from the round that would not fire. In retrospect, it seems ridiculous to have not done so.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
UPDATE: I received an email form Hornady this morning. Instructions were to call technical. Tech rep couldn't have been nicer. He sent me a UPS call tag and wanted all six boxes the customer bought sent back for dis-assembly and inspection. They recognized the seriousness of the situation and pledged to work with the customer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
posted 25 August 2016 08:27
A customer, who is a cardiac surgeon, brought his Win 70 .416 by to me that had a jammed bolt. He is headed for Africa in two weeks and was checking the regulation. I managed to retract the bolt with four vigorous hits from my palm. The cartridge case exhibited a caved in primer and several indents in the case body. A light down the bore revealed darkness. I used a 12 gauge shotgun rod to drive out the slug which was only 1/4 inch beyond the chamber mouth. Had he tried to chamber and fire another round the outcome would likely not have been good. Six other rounds fired were normal.

Lot number is 3152768. Product number 82624, 400 gr DGS. I hope this prevents an accident.

Bob

good!

About time too!

Previously we have heard that they had a could not careless attitude!

In 2014 I hunted with a PH in Sengwe 1 and 2. On my elephant he tried to back me up but his rifle just made a funny noise. With no powder in his 450 Ackley it just drove the bullet into the lands. Lucky he could not chamber another round. I was busy at the time finishing my ele but he had to drive the bullet back through the chamber with a cleaning rod. He said he was going to have a talk with his custom ammo maker. That is why I always make my own.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Sorry to hear some of you folks have had issues with Hornady Factory Ammo! For the past 4 - 5 years, I've used Hornady Factory Ammo as a sponsored tv host. In that time, I've shot roughly 10 cape buffalo, 2 leopards, numerous lions, numerous hippos, at least 1 elephant - as well as several Australian buffalo, South American buffalo/stag, New Zealand stag/tahr/chamois, Asian game and plenty of big N/A game too. All with Hornady factory ammo - and in all of those hunts, I've only had 1 issue with the factory ammo (1 bullet failure). Seemed to me to be an acceptable allowance - considering the number of rounds I've fired with no problem at all.

I've used plenty of other ammo too - and have had on the same rare occasion a failure, but not at any greater / lesser rate than with the Hornady ammo.

I mostly use the .416 Ruger on DG - with the 400 gr. DGX / DGS ammo. The combo is a buffalo smasher IMO!

I can't speak for others, but my overall opinion is the ammo has performed very well. Sorry to see others have not had the same experience!

I shot a brown bear a few years ago with a .338 Barnes TSX. Shot was dead steady, quartering away very slightly. Aimed for the off shoulder; at the shot the bear's off side front leg flipped straight up and he went down. Then he got back up and ran about 20 yards into a giant alder patch. As it was on the verge of darkness, we headed back to camp with a plan to get him the next day. Well, the rain all night erased any hope of finding a blood trail.

In June I shot a kudu in a similar fashion. Unlike the bear, he just stood there. My PH wanted to give him time, but after a while he said to put another one in him. He went down.

When we skinned him out my first shot was an absolute pencil shot - it looked like an arrow went through him. Hit both lungs, but he definitely was going to take a while before he died. If that kudu would have ran, we would have had very little blood and a long tracking job.

I will use TSX's again on a moose/bear hunt in a few weeks, but my point is for all the love we show for that bullet, it hasn't been perfect for me.

Swift A Frames, now that is a different story...my favorite bullet out of a .416.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Sorry to hear some of you folks have had issues with Hornady Factory Ammo! For the past 4 - 5 years, I've used Hornady Factory Ammo as a sponsored tv host. In that time, I've shot roughly 10 cape buffalo, 2 leopards, numerous lions, numerous hippos, at least 1 elephant - as well as several Australian buffalo, South American buffalo/stag, New Zealand stag/tahr/chamois, Asian game and plenty of big N/A game too. All with Hornady factory ammo - and in all of those hunts, I've only had 1 issue with the factory ammo (1 bullet failure). Seemed to me to be an acceptable allowance - considering the number of rounds I've fired with no problem at all.

I've used plenty of other ammo too - and have had on the same rare occasion a failure, but not at any greater / lesser rate than with the Hornady ammo.

I mostly use the .416 Ruger on DG - with the 400 gr. DGX / DGS ammo. The combo is a buffalo smasher IMO!

I can't speak for others, but my overall opinion is the ammo has performed very well. Sorry to see others have not had the same experience!

I shot a brown bear a few years ago with a .338 Barnes TSX. Shot was dead steady, quartering away very slightly. Aimed for the off shoulder; at the shot the bear's off side front leg flipped straight up and he went down. Then he got back up and ran about 20 yards into a giant alder patch. As it was on the verge of darkness, we headed back to camp with a plan to get him the next day. Well, the rain all night erased any hope of finding a blood trail.

In June I shot a kudu in a similar fashion. Unlike the bear, he just stood there. My PH wanted to give him time, but after a while he said to put another one in him. He went down.

When we skinned him out my first shot was an absolute pencil shot - it looked like an arrow went through him. Hit both lungs, but he definitely was going to take a while before he died. If that kudu would have ran, we would have had very little blood and a long tracking job.

I will use TSX's again on a moose/bear hunt in a few weeks, but my point is for all the love we show for that bullet, it hasn't been perfect for me.

Swift A Frames, now that is a different story...my favorite bullet out of a .416.

My experience has been EXAXCTLY the same thing. I refuse to shoot them any longer for that very reason.

AZwriter/ Larry,

Do either of you think that those Barnes bullets failed to expand, or that their petals sheared off immediately, and the remainder of the slug made those pencil holes?

Just curious. I've only taken two animals with Barnes bullets, one a whitetail with a shotgun slug, the other a hog with a TSX that gave me the same bullet diameter hole in and out with little damage in between.

I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
AZwriter/ Larry,

Do either of you think that those Barnes bullets failed to expand, or that their petals sheared off immediately, and the remainder of the slug made those pencil holes?

Just curious. I've only taken two animals with Barnes bullets, one a whitetail with a shotgun slug, the other a hog with a TSX that gave me the same bullet diameter hole in and out with little damage in between.

I first witnessed this with my kid shooting a whitetail. Then it happened to me. After it happened several times, I stopped using them altogether.

I shot hogs (easy shots fairly close) only to have them run off like nothing happened and fall dead 300-400 yards away as if they were shot from a solid. These left little to no blood trail.

I think they were not expanding.

On the other hand, I am taking Barnes bullets with me to Africa soon when I need solids. My experience with them has been fantastic.

I know many here love the TSX. I am not one of them .

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
AZwriter/ Larry,

Do either of you think that those Barnes bullets failed to expand, or that their petals sheared off immediately, and the remainder of the slug made those pencil holes?

Just curious. I've only taken two animals with Barnes bullets, one a whitetail with a shotgun slug, the other a hog with a TSX that gave me the same bullet diameter hole in and out with little damage in between.

I don't know, as the bullets in question both completely penetrated. Normally, I get the perfect looking bullet, but I am now wondering how common the "pencil" effect might be...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

Actually, if Aaron is getting paid to endorse Hornady, he has to use their products. Believe it or not, the FTC requires it. And here is another thing: if he stops using Hornady and starts using Nosler, the Outdoor Channel can no longer air the shows in which he is endorsing Hornady. I am sure this is often violated, but it is supposed to be followed.

Some other things Aaron must do:

He can’t talk about Hornady if he hasn't tried it.
He can't say it is terrific if he thought it was terrible.
He can't recommend that we use Hornady without telling us he is paid by them to do so.

Me, I think TV really cleans up disclosure. Perhaps another reason magazines are dying.

I shoot the TSX bullet when I use my own gun and ammo. I have yet to have a problem. On other ammo, I have never had a bad bullet except the Ballistic Tip - but I expected a problem with a hollow point on deer.

At the end of the day, I suspect the Remington Core-lok and about any any reputable bullet maker has a bullet that will kill all but the toughest animals.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

He can't say it is terrific if he thought it was terrible.

Oh, wait, you were being serious?

Failure of a bullet to expand cannot be compared with a round that does not fire, or fires with a squib and lodges the bullet in the barrel.

There is no bullet that is infallible.

Sometimes it is mentioned that solids never fail, which is not true at all.

I have personally seen a solid shot from either a 416 or 460 Weatherby into an elephant's trunk from the front, supposed to go through to the heart.

The bullet changed direction 90 degrees in the trunk, and went out of the side of it.

I have used the original Barnes X bullets quite extensively, and some did not expand at all.

I am glad to see Hornady are taking some action to see what the problem is.

I can see that happening with some "custom" ammo. I will only fire my own reloads but it is odd from factory ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A friend of mine bought some custom made ammo for his double 375 H&H from a Swiss custom maker. They were loaded with Speer 235 grain bullets.

He called and said some are misfiring.

I asked him to bring the ammo here, and sure enough, those misfired rounds had no powder at all!!

I weighed all his ammo - quite a number were at least 60 grains lighter, and those are the ones that had no powder!!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

as you I am always skeptical about someone who is paid to sell a product. It would be interesting to know if your assumption is indeed the case. All the hornady bullets I own are pre 1990 manufacture and have worked well, with the exception of the "Lever Evolution" ammo I bought for a .308 Marlin Express. I call them gummie grenades. I shot 8 whitetails and all the bullets broke up and failed to exit. Shots from 65 to 130 yards, both shoulder and lung shots and pretty much all broadside shots. If these DGX give the same performance, they are terrible.

quote:

I shot a brown bear a few years ago with a .338 Barnes TSX

John, the TTSX has done a lot to mitigate this.

I used hornady dgx on a few buffalo, Lion, antelope.
They failed on 2 buffalo, and seem to break easily. I wouldn't recommend it.

I used the DGS on buffalo and elephant. They performed as expected. I was only able to recover two from elefants, and they were still in tact.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

Actually, if Aaron is getting paid to endorse Hornady, he has to use their products. Believe it or not, the FTC requires it. And here is another thing: if he stops using Hornady and starts using Nosler, the Outdoor Channel can no longer air the shows in which he is endorsing Hornady. I am sure this is often violated, but it is supposed to be followed.

Some other things Aaron must do:

He can’t talk about Hornady if he hasn't tried it.
He can't say it is terrific if he thought it was terrible.
He can't recommend that we use Hornady without telling us he is paid by them to do so.

Me, I think TV really cleans up disclosure. Perhaps another reason magazines are dying.

Well, interestingly enough - Hornady pays me not a SINGLE dime!! They certainly don't pay me to hunt in Africa - or anywhere else for that matter (don't I wish). I am paid by the owners of the show I host - Safari Classics/Sports Afield, but the only thing I get from Hornady is ammo when needed. That's it!! Hardly worth giving a good report if I didn't actually believe it. Or hey, I could have just said nothing!

I do find it a bit amusing to see the huge misconceptions by the general public as it relates to the tv / sponsorship world. If only I got paid by all the companies that folks think I get paid by - I would be one happy guy!!! It doesn't work like that - trust me!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Ivan Carter will use nothing else?

It would appear not:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJpXYK9MVv8

Funny doesn't Ivan use a 577 and 600 now...don't think Hornady loads that...

I too have had some spotty results with Hornday DGX components (Softs in my 375 ultra) and spotty bullet performance out of my 450/400 (had a bullet blow up on a 250lb hog)...I saw them at the booth at DSC and the gent I talked to could not have been more aloof. I have to admit that was the wrong place to bring up a problem--I will continue to support Hornady because they build and support US jobs and are just a good ol USA company...I just use Northfork, Swift, and Woodliegh if I need to shoot something big.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

Actually, if Aaron is getting paid to endorse Hornady, he has to use their products. Believe it or not, the FTC requires it. And here is another thing: if he stops using Hornady and starts using Nosler, the Outdoor Channel can no longer air the shows in which he is endorsing Hornady. I am sure this is often violated, but it is supposed to be followed.

Some other things Aaron must do:

He can’t talk about Hornady if he hasn't tried it.
He can't say it is terrific if he thought it was terrible.
He can't recommend that we use Hornady without telling us he is paid by them to do so.

Me, I think TV really cleans up disclosure. Perhaps another reason magazines are dying.

Well, interestingly enough - Hornady pays me not a SINGLE dime!! They certainly don't pay me to hunt in Africa - or anywhere else for that matter (don't I wish). I am paid by the owners of the show I host - Safari Classics/Sports Afield, but the only thing I get from Hornady is ammo when needed. That's it!! Hardly worth giving a good report if I didn't actually believe it. Or hey, I could have just said nothing!

I do find it a bit amusing to see the huge misconceptions by the general public as it relates to the tv / sponsorship world. If only I got paid by all the companies that folks think I get paid by - I would be one happy guy!!! It doesn't work like that - trust me!!!!!

Aaron:

I said "If" as the preface to my statement. Not sure if you took offense to what I said. I was simply stating the rules that you and others have to follow if you are paid for endorsing a product in light of ISS's comment inferring you spoke highly of Hornady because you were paid to do so. I know you can get whatever ammo you want for a hunt.

It's not just Hornady.

What you see here is a custom loaded 375H&H, with a flat nosed Barnes solid. Note the primer, dented, but not going Bang!



Luckily, I was just using this one for a steinbok, after pulling the trigger a couple times hearing click, expecting bang, I switched it out for a TSX, and everything worked OK.

A very well known and respected firm made me several boxes of these. And I do not trust them anymore.

The idea of weighing the rounds occurred to me, but I never even got a primer to go off. Bad primer batch I guess, but all the TSX went off OK, in fact used up several boxes on that trip, culling gemsbok.

I've got plenty ( like pallet loads ) of Hornady ammo, love their 338 Lapua 285 gr loads. But I don't plan on using any of the DGX stuff for more than practice, that having more to do with bullets than the ammo itself.

I have been loading ammo for over 40 years, and I have never, ever, had any misfires due to primer failure!!??

This goes for rifle, pistol and shotgun, and we load in very large quantities.

And with all due respect to both Aaron and Ivan - both gentleman I have utmost respect for - plugging a product that is supplied to them by the manufacturer - paid or unpaid - to be advertised. Is a lot different from a product a normal person buys off the shelves for his own use.

I am sure the products given to both Ivan and Aaron worked as they should have.

But, there have been quite a number of failure with Hornady ammo, from different people, with different calibers, that it certainly needs very serious attention from them.

Personally, I have not hunted with any factory ammo since 1982.

Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

Good advice.

But don't ignore anything.

Better advice.

I shoot what I load.

As my wise old Grandfather told me, "Richard, trust everybody, but always cut the cards...".

I do, and I certainly do.

Larry,

I have that dud round somewhere. I will see if I can find it and pull the bullet. If I get a minute.

Jeff

I as a force of habit will weigh each loaded road that I plan on hunting with for weight, if there is a difference in weight depending on the amount I will only use them for target shooting or dismantle them

I also cylce each round through the rifle to insure that they chamber correctly and that the resistance to closing the action is acceptable, again hunting ammo

I also inspect the fired rounds to inspect the primers to see if they have identical primer penetration, if there is a difference I either discard the case or check the dimensions.