quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Larry,

I have that dud round somewhere. I will see if I can find it and pull the bullet. If I get a minute.

Jeff

Good. I am curious.

I am not sure I said this before. The primer in this bad round was moving. I could have easily removed it with my extremely thin finger nails. Now, that my friends, should scare the hell out of you.

In retrospect, I think both of us were in shock at what had happened and not thinking clearly. I should have pulled that primer and checked to see if any powder came out.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Ivan Carter will use nothing else?

It would appear not:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJpXYK9MVv8

Funny doesn't Ivan use a 577 and 600 now...don't think Hornady loads that...

I too have had some spotty results with Hornday DGX components (Softs in my 375 ultra) and spotty bullet performance out of my 450/400 (had a bullet blow up on a 250lb hog)...I saw them at the booth at DSC and the gent I talked to could not have been more aloof. I have to admit that was the wrong place to bring up a problem--I will continue to support Hornady because they build and support US jobs and are just a good ol USA company...I just use Northfork, Swift, and Woodliegh if I need to shoot something big.

Ed

Hornady does not load it but I am pretty sure that Ivan uses custom made ammo loaded with a custom monolithic bullet made by Hornady.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think the key phrase in Aaron's post is the part about him being "a sponsored TV host". That translates to "they pay me to hunt Africa, and shoot their ammunition...". The other thing is that his ammunition is likely loaded on a single stage press, by one person, and weighed before being stuck in the box.

Rich

Actually, if Aaron is getting paid to endorse Hornady, he has to use their products. Believe it or not, the FTC requires it. And here is another thing: if he stops using Hornady and starts using Nosler, the Outdoor Channel can no longer air the shows in which he is endorsing Hornady. I am sure this is often violated, but it is supposed to be followed.

Some other things Aaron must do:

He can’t talk about Hornady if he hasn't tried it.
He can't say it is terrific if he thought it was terrible.
He can't recommend that we use Hornady without telling us he is paid by them to do so.

Me, I think TV really cleans up disclosure. Perhaps another reason magazines are dying.

Well, interestingly enough - Hornady pays me not a SINGLE dime!! They certainly don't pay me to hunt in Africa - or anywhere else for that matter (don't I wish). I am paid by the owners of the show I host - Safari Classics/Sports Afield, but the only thing I get from Hornady is ammo when needed. That's it!! Hardly worth giving a good report if I didn't actually believe it. Or hey, I could have just said nothing!

I do find it a bit amusing to see the huge misconceptions by the general public as it relates to the tv / sponsorship world. If only I got paid by all the companies that folks think I get paid by - I would be one happy guy!!! It doesn't work like that - trust me!!!!!

Hi Aaron
Please take this question out of pure curiosity and nothing else, definitely not an attack, as I am also curious on how Hunting TV shows work, but if you don't get paid by them, why did you stopped using your old hunting rig (.375 rum/ barnes tsx) for your new one (.416 ruger/hornady dgx) pretty sure both work fine for you but just asking.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:


It never ceases to amaze me that the "AR" crowd
cannot wait to Tar an Feather Hornady at seemingly the drop of a hat.

Let me ask you a question sir. If you were practicing for a DG hunting trip using Hornady ammo and had a round not fire, what would you do? Would you take that ammo on your trip and take your chances?

I had major problems with my first VC double. It would not fire. One of the problems was that the rims on the Hornady ammo were too thick on virtually every cartridge. I had several thousand dollars worth. I will give them credit. They replaced all the ammo. I hear the same thing here by others.

Well after many thousands of rounds of Hornady ammunition, from rifle,handgun and shotgun;
I have never seen a failure to fire or a squib load.

That does not imply that such occurrences have not happened or may yet happen.
I just have not (yet) seen or been involved such occurrence - whether competitively or hunting.

However, with Remington,Weatherby,Norma,Barnes, CCI , Federal and Winchester---yes- several
A couple of those involved legal action - (as noted in my post above)

Unlike Saeed's experience I have seen numerous primer failures in the past 40 to 50 years.(several types)
He probably burns more powder these days, in the past, I ran through 50K to 70K rounds a year in competition. (Sadly , no longer)


Should we all expect to see such occurrences in man made items - whether handloads or factory-- sadly, yes
Humans are fallible--period
As are the products they create.

Are such events bad--absolutely
Would I want to have it occur --no

I have not just consumed Hornady products in the competitive arena (Non-sponsored);
I have hunted many types of game including DG with Hornady products.

For DG hunting I am very ammunition aware-
Loads are individually ,inspected, weighed and chambered--(As,I learned from competitive .22 match experience)

Also, I typically apply a sealing agent around the primer and neck on both factory and handloads.

For me it goes like this-
Prepare for the worst-
Pray and work for the best-
and expect Murphy to get involved at the least prepared moment.

May be I need to clarify what I said above.

I have never had a primer failure in reloading ammo. We use primers from Winchester, Remington, CCI, RWS and Federal.

Never had a single failure.

But, we have had many failures from factory ammo, both commercial and military.

.22 ammo is a different ball game altogether.

We buy .22 ammo in lots of at least 100,000 rounds. And we have had failure to fire from every manufacturer.

There are too many people reporting problems for there not to be a real problem.

Jeff, please correct me if I am saying the wrong thing here. As I recall, JJ told us that he would NEVER hunt with these bullets due to inconsistent hardness and velocity . I do not profess to be an expert. JJ however..... Who can question him? Certainly not me.

I vividly recall PH Collen van der Linden, telling the story of a guy who shot a bull giraffe at close range with a 450/400 loaded with DGX. Hits looked good. They lost it. Collen was bewildered. Those who know him know he is hell on wheels. To make a long story short, they killed this giraffe days later. The bullets from the original shots had barely broken the skin and shattered.

When I had my issues with rim thickness on a large order some years ago, I got excellent customer service from Hornady. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with how they treated Jeff. Maybe Jeff just got a jack ass. Maybe he didn't. Regardless, I would not have taken that ammo on a hunt unless I had a death wish.

We concentrate on the bullets. Indeed they are a problem. The primer could have easily come out of Jeff's dud load. Think about that. That may be even worse than a bad bullet.

I will shoot then on the range but NEVER in Africa.

BY the way, I Only shoot factory ammo or custom loaded ammo. I have never experienced this with other brands.

You are absolutely correct Larry. If JJ who has forgotten more about DR and heavy calibers then anyone commenting here says he would NEVER use them on dangerous game, then couple with my own experience and the various horror stories from numerous PH's then that is good enough for me.

But then again I mad the mistake of looking on the Political Forum this morning and found people willing to vote for Killary so go figure.

Jeff

I have never had good luck with Hornady bullets of any flavor...IMO there have always been far better choices. Interbonds and SST are some of the worst performing bullets I've used. Complete bullet "blow up" and lack of penetration seemed the norm.

Having said that...I am a fan of their reloading equipment.

If one can afford to go hunt dangerous game in Africa one can afford a few extra dollars to purchase premium ammo. I prefer to handload and use Swift A-frame. Use a premium bullet and save a lot of grief.

Yup.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
If one can afford to go hunt dangerous game in Africa one can afford a few extra dollars to purchase premium ammo. I prefer to handload and use Swift A-frame. Use a premium bullet and save a lot of grief.

Unless, you are Walter

One year he decided that he really has no wish to use my ammo, and he wanted to load his own.

We were going to South Africa for a plains game hunt, and he wanted to take his Blaser 7x64.

"What do you want to do now?"
"I want to make my own ammo. I do not trust you. I will load each one myself, and then I will take everything home. I don't want you to mess with my ammo."

"Alright. Bring your rifle and start developing a load for it. You can use Nosler's Partition bullets. They should worked well in your gun"

"The rifle is in my car. I will go bring it"

He disappeared upstairs - which he hates, going up steps.


Then he comes back "Here you are"
"Don't look at me. There are many loading books, but why don't you look at the Nosler manual and start doing something useful"

"Wait, wait. You pick a load. You are much better than me at this. Well, you are faster anyway."

He left his rifle here, and I did develop a load for him, which he insisted on loading himself.

I put a box of bullets, with a can of the relevant powder, next to a tray full of primed cases, next to the powder scale.

Walter got himself ready - by getting himself a large bowl ice cream, covered in chocolate sauce. And a cup of his favorite thyme tea, which my wife makes especially for him!

I have several of the green RCBS powder funnels by the powder station.

One of these I have enlarged by making the drop down hole larger for use with large caliber.

I should have given him the right size funnel, knowing him so well.

Anyway.

He just so happens to pick the large funnel, and started pouring his weighed powder into his cases. The funnel fits over the case neck, and part of the powder stays outside the neck, and falls into the loading tray as he picks the funnel up.

He has an extraordinary trouble weighing the right charge - and puts too much, then removes a lot to have too little.

About an hour later, he managed to weigh about half a dozen charges - part of which is spilled outside on the loading tray!

"Are you trying to doctor your own ammo, so you don't hit anything?"

"Keep your hands off my ammo. These are the deadliest bullets in the world"

"Why is there so much powder outside the cases?"

"WHAT? OH SHIT! How did you do that?"

"I have not done anything. You screw things up without anyone's help"

"Saeed, Saeed, you are my friend. Can you load my ammo? PLEASE?"

"I thought you don't want me to screw all your ammo up"

"I know, But, you are not as good as screwing thins up as me"

A few years earlier, I had a hard time developing ammo for him that won't shoot well.

I actually used .277 caliber bullets in his .284 caliber rifle. And the amazing thing they still shot 1.5-2.0 inch groups!!??

That is far too good, I wanted something that will shoot a 5 yard group.

I got what I wanted, by drilling the rear end of the Nosler Partition bullets - removing quite a lot of weight, so no two bullets are alike.

I gave them these as he started sighting in his rifle as we arrived in Zimbabwe. He could not even hit the target box!

One bullet landed half way between us and the target.

So some of you who spend so much time trying to develop an accurate load, spare a thought for us who try to develop a REALLY INACCURATE load.

It is much harder to do!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
If one can afford to go hunt dangerous game in Africa one can afford a few extra dollars to purchase premium ammo. I prefer to handload and use Swift A-frame. Use a premium bullet and save a lot of grief.

It boggles the mind that anybody would spend $25k on a hunt and take cheap Hornady ammo when Federal, Remington, etc. premium ammo with Swift A-Frames and Barnes X is so readily available.

A few years ago I bought a sealed bag of 100 new Remington cases for a new .35 Whelen. I started out using some "used" cases that had been fired a few times in my former .35 Whelen. They worked great! I then tried to fire some loads using the new Remington brass -- not a single one would go "bang"! My gunsmith checked the chamber and it was spot on. I took the rifle back to where it was purchased and their gunsmith tested it by firing some Rem factory loads and said it worked fine! It turned out that every one of the "new" factory cases had a headspace problem -- the shoulder was too far back!

More recently, I bought a couple of boxes of Hornady brass for my then new 9.3 X 62 in a Tikka T3 Lite. I made up a bunch of ammo using the 286gr Hornady and it wouldn't chamber without the bullets being seated too short for the magazine and well under specs. When fired they were very accurate, however, and did a great job on finishing off a wounded black bear by a young apprentice.

Long story shorter: it turned out that there was a burr (sort of a flange) at the mouth of the new brass where it had been cut. Once that had been discovered by myself, I simply ran each new case into a trimmer that removed the problem. Then, the bullets were seated to fit the clip magazine at 3.37" COL. These cases were made by S&B, by the way, while having "Hornady" stamped on the face of the rim.

Concerning Hornady bullets: I've not used many Hornady bullets, but basically I'd say use the ones that are recommended for a particular task AND proven. I've had failures and successes. But the failures have been mostly my fault in using the wrong bullet for a particular application.

Concerning Barnes X and TSX: My experience has been that they did not open as they should have. I use the heavier calibers.

Concerning Noslers: I've never had a failure.

About Woodleighs: no experience in shooting game -- yet -- but have been loading their 320gr for the 9.3 X 62 in tests.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Ivan Carter will use nothing else?

Ivan is now sponsored by Nosler & uses them. I just got an e mail from him confirming that.

I use Hornady ammo in my .404 and no problems and puts big game down.

Butch Searcy has hand loaded Hornadys for my 450-400 for me for a number of years, and I have taken 6 cape buffalo with them. Ivan Carter used them for years on dangerous game, from elephant on down, without any issues that I'm aware of.

Hornady called today. All rounds dis-assembled without finding another squib. Agreeable compensation made to customer. QC efforts to be scrutinized and improved. Very fast and good customer service.

Bob

I have never had an issue with Hornady ammo. I lent a .375 Ruger and some Hornady DGX ammo to a friend for his hunt with Buzz in Dande this past May and he and the PH (Alan Shearing) were very impressed with the DGX's performance on a very nice Cape Buffalo.

Cheers,

I wish the best for Hornady. They are a valued supporter of our sports. I loaded their 300 gr.,.375 bullets for a recent plains game hunt in Namibia. All went well. Another hunter had three FTF's with his Hornady 7mm Remington magnum cartridges from a box of cartridges. The primers were well struck.
I,too, cycle all ammunition through our rifles before leaving the USA. They are too heavy for my old Redding scale to weigh each of them.I must determine if a new electronic scale will handle that duty.
Critical Defence is my family's handgun cartridge preference. Anyone had a problem?
Thanks

Critical Defence is my family's handgun cartridge preference. Anyone had a problem?
Thanks[/QUOTE]

My wife had a squib load with critical defense 380 ammo. I sent the remaining ammo back to hornaday. They said all other cartridges from that box were loaded correctly. They sent me a new box, and blamed it on off center primer strike. The primer was struck well. I gave the box they sent me away. I switched to hydro shocks and Winchester Pdx.

If you like the CD line and your mileage has been good then use them. I have a lot of hornaday ammo in 375 ruger and 405 win. I have been impressed with the interlock 375s and not as impressed the 405. The 405 has more lead exposed and to my eye a thinner jacket. I have a fair amount of DGX in 500 nitro. It is most available and what my rifle was regulated for so I bought it up.

I am very pleased hornaday informed the individual that they would address QC issues that lead to this thread. I believe someone at hornaday sees these threads. I spoke to a rep a the shot show who told me they were working on a bonded dangerous game bullet design.

The one off bullet failure may be an acceptable failure rate. Rims out of tolerance may be acceptable failure rate. There are mistakes and then their are insert profanity ups. Squib loads are not mistakes they are insert profanity ups. If hunting dangerous game or relying on ammo to fight with, I believe the best advice to the end user is to weigh every round that will be used. That is what I learned from this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Hornady called today. All rounds dis-assembled without finding another squib. Agreeable compensation made to customer. QC efforts to be scrutinized and improved. Very fast and good customer service. Bob

Excellent, the industry needs a strong and healthy Hornady!

I believe in personally hand loading every round I take on a hunting trip. I have never had a failure to fire or a round that would not feed, including not only hunting rounds but thousands of rounds fired in NRA High Power competition.

I use boring old .30 caliber Nosler Partitions on North American and plains game and have used .375 and .458 North Forks on the heavier African stuff. I have never had a bullet perform unsatisfactorily.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Hornady called today. All rounds dis-assembled without finding another squib. Agreeable compensation made to customer. QC efforts to be scrutinized and improved. Very fast and good customer service.

Bob

OK, fine, but (rhetorical question) was this in reaction to the firestorm being created here or because they're such a great company and this is their normal course of business?

I hope they take the criticisms listed here and have a change of heart as a corporation, get rid of whatever "leader" created this culture and move on.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
There are too many people reporting problems for there not to be a real problem.

Based on this thread's responses, Larry, I would suggest you only use free ammo in front of a camera. That seems to be the essential ingredient in flawless performance.

quote:

Originally posted by mt Al:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Hornady called today. All rounds dis-assembled without finding another squib. Agreeable compensation made to customer. QC efforts to be scrutinized and improved. Very fast and good customer service.

Bob

OK, fine, but (rhetorical question) was this in reaction to the firestorm being created here or because they're such a great company and this is their normal course of business?

I hope they take the criticisms listed here and have a change of heart as a corporation, get rid of whatever "leader" created this culture and move on.

Complaints about their ammo has been making the rounds for a while, and I understand their response in the past was not very encouraging, so I suspect they got moving on it now because of the negative publicity.

I can imagine this would never have gotten this far if they had responded properly at the beginning.

I believe that ANY company can have ups and downs with quality control. Just because the Hornady stuff worked well in the past, doesn't mean that it will going forward. After reading of all the failures there is no way I would trust my life on their bullets now. If you want to be known as a company that is quality, then quality control MUST be number one, especially when it comes to bullets for dangerous game. Too much risk involved for mediocrity.just my opinion.