posted 25 August 2016 08:27
A customer, who is a cardiac surgeon, brought his Win 70 .416 by to me that had a jammed bolt. He is headed for Africa in two weeks and was checking the regulation. I managed to retract the bolt with four vigorous hits from my palm. The cartridge case exhibited a caved in primer and several indents in the case body. A light down the bore revealed darkness. I used a 12 gauge shotgun rod to drive out the slug which was only 1/4 inch beyond the chamber mouth. Had he tried to chamber and fire another round the outcome would likely not have been good. Six other rounds fired were normal.

Lot number is 3152768. Product number 82624, 400 gr DGS. I hope this prevents an accident.

Bob

I took Hornady 450 Nitro for my friends English Double in Zim in 2013 and it wouldn't chamber. the rims were too thick. 240.00 down the drain, a letter to Hornady resulted in SFA. I wouldn't use their ammo for anything, it is crap and so is their customer service. Avoisd this stuff for across the pond.

When you opened the bolt was there any unburned powder? With the bullet so close to the chamber I suspect not. Very odd for factory ammo. Wouldn't even happen with today's Dillons.

Interestingly, National Parks in Zim acquired a large quantity of "A Square" .458 Win Mag ammo some years back which was neither A2 cases nor bullets, so "factory" is not always so.

With all the negative talk we have been reading about Hornady ammo, I suggest everyone stay away from them!

In fact, I would add Hornady to Hirtenberger ammo - never trust it!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
With all the negative talk we have been reading about Hornady ammo, I suggest everyone stay away from them!

In fact, I would add Hornady to Hirtenberger ammo - never trust it!

It's rubbish...

We experienced serious trouble with 500 NE ammo from Hornady. These included:

1- Rims out of tolerance
2- Rounds that would not fire
3- Primers that could be removed with fingernail.
4- Poor bullet performance including DGX that broke up and failed to penetrate.

Perhaps worst of all, Hornady doesn't seen to give a damn. After personally being there with the rounds that would not fire, I will NEVER EVER hunt with them again.

I have a new view of the phrase" Deadly, Accurate, Dependable" They must mean deadly for the shooter.

Old Hornady must turning in his grave!

He used to give exceptional service - just all manufacturers of his time.

Now I understand his son has a could not careless attitude towards people who have trouble with his products!

I'll second #4. Recovered 3 rounds from buff, not a one stayed together. They are for practice only.

The really sad part about all of this is that many folks new to our safari sport believe the endorsements from TV personalities who are sponsored by companies like this. They will extoll the virtues of the product (ammunition in this case) that they are paid to endorse. I personally have never met an African PH (not on the Hornady payroll) who favors Hornady ammunition for dangerous game. If there is one out there reading this post, I would like to hear from him / her. There are just too many choices for better ammo out there. When is the last time you heard anyone complain of failure of a Woodleigh, Barnes X, or Swift A-Frame bullet?

Good point. No, there was no evidence of any powder in the case. I just fired off an email to Hornady. Lets see where that goes.

quote:

Originally posted by Barry Groulx:
When you opened the bolt was there any unburned powder? With the bullet so close to the chamber I suspect not. Very odd for factory ammo. Wouldn't even happen with today's Dillons.

Interestingly, National Parks in Zim acquired a large quantity of "A Square" .458 Win Mag ammo some years back which was neither A2 cases nor bullets, so "factory" is not always so.

A friend of mine bought some custom made ammo for his double 375 H&H from a Swiss custom maker. They were loaded with Speer 235 grain bullets.

He called and said some are misfiring.

I asked him to bring the ammo here, and sure enough, those misfired rounds had no powder at all!!

I weighed all his ammo - quite a number were at least 60 grains lighter, and those are the ones that had no powder!!

This is disturbing. As I said in the recent past in a comment, it seems that quality control is lacking at Hornady. To me this shows indications of a company in decline. For ammunition, quality control should be number one priority. Lack of quality control is a very real danger. It is disappointing to see this company failing.

Perhaps BwanaBunduki will chime in on the results of his call to Hornady to tell them about him 500 NE ammo that would not fire. I am sure it will be enlightening.

Jeff?

I was there. I witnessed it.

Larry and I were shooting our VC 500 NE DR's in preparation for an upcoming elephant hunt last year. I went to shoot my right barrel and snapped dud. I at first I thought I had dumbed out and had not loaded the gun. Opening the breach it was not the case. The primer had been stuck and dented, but the primer was seated high. We tried the round again in Larry's gun...same result. I contacted and spoke to a Hornady rep. He said that happens sometimes with their primers...Wait what? Iex pressed further concern and told him in no uncertain terms would I face dangerous game in Africa with Hornady Ammo. He could not have cared less. What the Hell?

I have since had another dud round in practice. Larry and I started a thread about this at the time and we were met with some derision by experts who had killed a buffalo or two with the stuff.

I can tell you I WOULD NEVER use Hornady ammo for anything I wanted to kill cleanly or defend myself from.

Jeff

But don't worry, at least their plastic tips won't melt in flight.

Seriously ,someone is going to get killed using those things . It is a products liability lawsuit waiting to happen.

The sad part is they sponsor some dangerous game hunting shows I understand, and someone unaware of this would use their ammo and get himself hurt!

The worst part is the could not careless attitude of Hornady.

This is terrible.

The only misfire I ever experienced with any of my center fire rifles was with Hornady ammunition in .376 Steyr. Lost a boar because I could not reload silently enough.

What is meant by "factory ammo", please? Enquiring minds want to know...
Actually, I have no problems with Hornady (since I figured out how to fix their brass for use.)

On a Crock hunt I could not get them 375 HH to group 8 in in 100 yards not even close for a crock brain shot. lucky I had some Remington ammo that did the trick. Use their casing all the time though

I seem to recall a bad problem a few years ago with the then new Accubond or Interbond bullets blowing up on shoulder shots on thin skinned game. Supposedly they fixed them but this sort of history plus the current issue tells me to avoid this crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The sad part is they sponsor some dangerous game hunting shows I understand, and someone unaware of this would use their ammo and get himself hurt!

The worst part is the could not careless attitude of Hornady.

This is terrible.

A friend of mine imports Hornady.

He uses LAPUA brass in a 338 Lapua...

This is disturbing to say the least. I can understand a squib load hanging a bullet in the barrel. HOWEVER if the issues extracting the case makes me think there was something really wrong here. Not enough or to little powder should not have caused these issues with extraction.

I will say a spine an elk and destroyed a very large boar in Autria with Hornaday interlocks. All penetrate and exited after contacting major bone. Yet, the 405 interlocks not so good.

What I figured out was that the bullet was jammed in the leade and about half of the bullet was still in the case neck. The force I applied pulled the case the rest of the way off the bullet. Then I had to dislodge the bullet with the rod. It was jammed in pretty tight. This was all the result from the primer detonation since there was no propellant in the case.

BTW, Hornady didn't bother to reply to my email today.

You know there are packaging machines that can detect out of spec by weight containers and they are in use every day and at high speed. Why in the world would an ammo company making DG munitions not use a similar device to detect faulty rounds? Can you imagine what could have happened to the doctor had he been at close quarters with a steely-eyed buff and the rifle goes pop and jams? I weighed all of his ammo today and didn't find another one. It test fired OK and he is going to use different ammo for his safari. He'll relegate the Hornady stuff to range use.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
This is disturbing to say the least. I can understand a squib load hanging a bullet in the barrel. HOWEVER if the issues extracting the case makes me think there was something really wrong here. Not enough or to little powder should not have caused these issues with extraction.

I will say a spine an elk and destroyed a very large boar in Autria with Hornaday interlocks. All penetrate and exited after contacting major bone. Yet, the 405 interlocks not so good.

Lots of threads lately, and I mean in recent years, not days or weeks, about Hornady failures. But usually bullet failures, and especially DGX bullet failures.

Brass problems, some, but not so much, and cases empty of powder - this is a new one, at least for me.

And customer service seems to have taken a complete nose dive.

You have to wonder what the hell is going on at Hornady. They used to be a great company.

I'll sure be more careful in choosing which of their products I choose to buy.

The sponser a lot of shows and "professional hunters" who swear by the product. Hard to prove the claims against them. I quit them years ago and went to Barnes.

Barnes vs Hornady solids


Hmmmmmmmmmm..............

Mr. Bobster: Thank you for the information. This is terrible. Hornady claims to load the DG series one single round at a time. The implication is that it is all loaded on single stage presses. Someone once suggested using the DG series as practice. After this and other reports, I have to concede the point.

It is horrible. The DG series is the most available and cheaper large bore ammo out there. It seems if hornady loads it that cartridge gets revived by rifle makers. I would like to support them for this alone. But this keeps happening and someone is going to get killed.

Well, if nothing else I will have a lot of brass. I am watching Hornady's dark and dangerous right now. Why make it, market it, and have a customer service department and just ignore the market. It is a niche and most expensive market. You would think they would bend over backwards for there customers.

Thank you for the information you may have saved someone's life or at least skin.

The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know.

There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know.

But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hornady is largely responsible for the resurrection of Double Rifles for American consumption, as well as reasonablly priced large bore ammunition as compared to other sources.

I have no financial interest in Hornady.

As a DR and Big Bore shooter, I appreciate their efforts however.

IF this was a factory defect, it is bad, period.

This lot and stock number appear to be 2014 or earlier.

Could have been purchased as a sealed factory box directly from a vendor, could not have been.

Could have had a sqib load from Hornady, could not have been from Hornady.


All that said--
with the number of Weatherby, Remington, Federal , etc, KNOWN ammunition problems that have existed and still exist-

It never ceases to amaze me that the "AR" crowd
cannot wait to Tar an Feather Hornady at seemingly the drop of a hat.

As to customer response--
for instance , it has routinely taken legal actions with respect to other manufactures to
get "responses" from customer service from "ammunition related events".

Suggestion:

Contact Hornady again-
return receipt requested-
print a copy of this thread enclosed with a well drafted letter of your own report-

and get back to us.

So, you suggest he try again to get someone from the company to follow up? Stuff happens in production, if it happens frequently it is a problem. Here, possibly a fatal one.
The fact that the company didn't acknowledge they got his communication is a big problem. I can understand perhaps they don't have a reply because any reply probably has to go through legal before sent and signed off on at a high level. But no acknowledge means to me, they are going to ignore the problem until someone is hurt and takes them to court. Not a good way to run a business or treat people. This is good enough reason not to buy from them in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:


It never ceases to amaze me that the "AR" crowd
cannot wait to Tar an Feather Hornady at seemingly the drop of a hat.

Let me ask you a question sir. If you were practicing for a DG hunting trip using Hornady ammo and had a round not fire, what would you do? Would you take that ammo on your trip and take your chances?

I had major problems with my first VC double. It would not fire. One of the problems was that the rims on the Hornady ammo were too thick on virtually every cartridge. I had several thousand dollars worth. I will give them credit. They replaced all the ammo. I hear the same thing here by others.

Here is another issue. My VC came from the factory regulated with Hornady ammo. It had to be reregulated immediately. Was that the fault of the ammo or VC?

Never will use the Hornady brand again. EVER.

Jeff

Target practice brother. Target practice.

I had some serious issues with Weatherby ammo and 180gr Barnes Xs. Jammed the bolt and primers falling out. Called WBY and they replaced the ammo but I switched to Noslers. As for Hornady, I've never had any issues with their brass and my 450Ne, and my VC was regulated with their ammo which was INCREDIBLY SLOW as in 2060-80 fps so I was pissed if I increased velocity the rifle would have to be regulated. Not so. One thing I've learned about regulation of doubles is people make it out to be way more complicated. I can shoot just about any bullet out there from 450 TSXs and North Forks to 480 Woodleighs, all softs or solids and they print just fine.

My experience with the 416 Rem Mag using Hornady DGX 400gr Handloads at 2250fps.

Nyala Bull, quartering towards at 80m. Impact at plus minus 2050fps. Bullet failed to exit, which to me is the first worrying aspect. Think retained weight was 80 odd Percent. I don't think I'm going to use it on Buffalo.

If one talks to a bunch of PHs who aren't on the payroll, horror stories will be told.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:

BTW, Hornady didn't bother to reply to my email today.

You know there are packaging machines that can detect out of spec by weight containers and they are in use every day and at high speed. Why in the world would an ammo company making DG munitions not use a similar device to detect faulty rounds?

I've done a few ammunition jobs (manufacturing consulting) over the years: shotgun, rifle and projectiles but no pistol (projos or loaded rounds).

What's been described above are symptoms of a very serious leadership problem: they don't care. I'll never buy another box of Hornady after reading all this. Time to move on.

You're absolutely right about measuring equipment above. It's common, but not as common as you'd think in ammunition production. Even smaller custom ammo companies set up a simple digi-scale and weigh each and every round right before the person puts them in the package, then the whole package is weighed. It's dirt simple and Hornady doesn't even do that!?!

Military specs for the round's performance AND the manufacturing process are very strict. Almost no way to get there without ISO9000/AS9100 certification and then you add some other quality assurance steps along the way.

This is sad but will open up room for new players.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
If one talks to a bunch of PHs who aren't on the payroll, horror stories will be told.

+1

UPDATE: I received an email form Hornady this morning. Instructions were to call technical. Tech rep couldn't have been nicer. He sent me a UPS call tag and wanted all six boxes the customer bought sent back for dis-assembly and inspection. They recognized the seriousness of the situation and pledged to work with the customer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
posted 25 August 2016 08:27
A customer, who is a cardiac surgeon, brought his Win 70 .416 by to me that had a jammed bolt. He is headed for Africa in two weeks and was checking the regulation. I managed to retract the bolt with four vigorous hits from my palm. The cartridge case exhibited a caved in primer and several indents in the case body. A light down the bore revealed darkness. I used a 12 gauge shotgun rod to drive out the slug which was only 1/4 inch beyond the chamber mouth. Had he tried to chamber and fire another round the outcome would likely not have been good. Six other rounds fired were normal.

Lot number is 3152768. Product number 82624, 400 gr DGS. I hope this prevents an accident.

Bob