quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
why use camp guns if you have NO desire to hunt anything other than with your own rifle?? just wait it out and hope for the best. NO MEANS NO, RIGHT???

Well, to be honest, I would just wait it out under those circumstances for a couple of days. I am practical however. I won't spend that type of money to go on a hunt without my guns. But once the cash has been paid and I'm there, if the guns lag, I'm willing to make a plan. I probably would do some sight seeing depending on how many days I have and how difficult it appears to be to get everything on the plan.

If I have a 14 day buff / tuskless hunt in the Zambezi Valley like my upcoming trip in October, yeah, I'd probably wait on the guns a couple of days. I scheduled plenty of time in the hunt for that very reason. If I finish early, we'll look for something else to hunt or just go fishing and enjoy being there. If I'm on a leopard or lion hunt, it would be stupid not to begin obtaining bait. And if a cat were to begin feeding prior to the guns catching up, yeah, I'm going to use a camp gun under those circumstances as cats are too unpredictable.

Just to be clear as to answering your question. If I've spent $50,000+ to hunt lion and find myself in camp without my guns, yes, I will use what is available because the money is already spent at that point. However, I will not spend $50,000 to hunt lion and embark on the trip to camp if my guns are not going to be allowed on the hunt. Does that clear it up for you? In my opinion, there is no ambiguity in those two statements.

Whatever happened to the Empire?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that a paedophile is often more popular in the UK than a hunter is.

You are not far from the truth..Spot on actually!.
The problem with England and their traditions in gun cuture is that so called upperclass people always had an access to sporting firearms. Their gunculture begame strict when the commen man suddenly could buy a firearms out of his monthly paycheck. Most politician almost lined up to prevent this and today still is today. From a historical point of view its quite clear why the people of the british isles who wanted to be free went west, and all the slaves were left behind.

I have two friends that come to south Africa sometimes twice a year. They refuse to fly BA once they flew SAA.No gun problems

Seems to me the obvious answer to this issue is SAA!

I returned yesterday from South Africa on SAA [my 9th round trip in 12 years - all on SAA].

I flew through Washington to Johannesburg. The aircraft were both [same?] seemingly new Airbus 340-300.
The seats and spacing seem to be the same but now include a nicer headrest and footrest too, and the new in flight entertainment system does away with most of the underseat boxes [I could see none but I don't know that for sure] and the armrest telephone/remote control. The new system uses a touch screen.

The economy cabin service was quite a bit more efficient than even last October. The crew seemed quite friendly and cooperative, it has noticably improved over the last few trips.

The food was very good, IMHO. Portions could have been more generous on some selections, but others were quite a meal. I had a choice of meals at every serving. 3 meals on the eastbound leg, and 2 meals and a snack on the westbound. Drinks were freely available, though they lacked Bourbon [or even Jack Daniels] and the beer was only cool.
You must remember to get all your alcoholic drinks at the same time though - cocktails, wine for dinner - whatever. They did not even blink when I asked for two of each.

Sure it's still coach and seating is crowded and there are a lot of people around, but surely no worse than the average, and much better than most US domestic services!

And so far at least - no new firearms issues. [though the "ammo case" issue still remains at the smaller domestic airports, likely resulting from a personal revenue shortage.]

Les

While you are stewing over larger than 11mm rifles the rule says "firearms larger than 11mm".
That would include any shotgun larger than a .410 so even the most ordinary shotgun would be banned and many large caliber handguns.

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that a paedophile is often more popular in the UK than a hunter is.

You are not far from the truth..Spot on actually!.
The problem with England and their traditions in gun cuture is that so called upperclass people always had an access to sporting firearms. Their gunculture begame strict when the commen man suddenly could buy a firearms out of his monthly paycheck. Most politician almost lined up to prevent this and today still is today. From a historical point of view its quite clear why the people of the british isles who wanted to be free went west, and all the slaves were left behind.

Actually, not quite. It started when the last Czar and his family got topped. The British Royals let it be known that they were not so keen to follow the same road as their cousins. So succesive British Governments have slowly reduced any revolutionaries chances of arming themselves. Since then, disarmament of the British public has been ably assisted by the cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade.
Further, it wasn't quite slaves that were left behind, but those who considered it a high risk to bath more than once a week [Saturdays] and thought that a first class meal was fish and chips [fries] eaten out of an old newspaper.

quote:

cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade

Referred to as the fruits and nuts in the US...

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Actually, not quite. It started when the last Czar and his family got topped. The British Royals let it be known that they were not so keen to follow the same road as their cousins. So succesive British Governments have slowly reduced any revolutionaries chances of arming themselves. Since then, disarmament of the British public has been ably assisted by the cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade.
Further, it wasn't quite slaves that were left behind, but those who considered it a high risk to bath more than once a week [Saturdays] and thought that a first class meal was fish and chips [fries] eaten out of an old newspaper.

Absolutely 110% correct.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade

Referred to as the fruits and nuts in the US...

Not the "granola bar?" Fruit, nuts and flakes.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Probably too late but please try to get the names of hunters who had problems & then let me have those plus flight details & names of staff involved etc.

Pin down the facts in order to mount an effective battle on this. As Steve said, take names.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that a paedophile is often more popular in the UK than a hunter is.

You are not far from the truth..Spot on actually!.
The problem with England and their traditions in gun cuture is that so called upperclass people always had an access to sporting firearms. Their gunculture begame strict when the commen man suddenly could buy a firearms out of his monthly paycheck. Most politician almost lined up to prevent this and today still is today. From a historical point of view its quite clear why the people of the british isles who wanted to be free went west, and all the slaves were left behind.

Actually, not quite. It started when the last Czar and his family got topped. The British Royals let it be known that they were not so keen to follow the same road as their cousins. So succesive British Governments have slowly reduced any revolutionaries chances of arming themselves. Since then, disarmament of the British public has been ably assisted by the cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade.
Further, it wasn't quite slaves that were left behind, but those who considered it a high risk to bath more than once a week [Saturdays] and thought that a first class meal was fish and chips [fries] eaten out of an old newspaper.

Actually, I had been rather wondering if the British attitude on guns didn't have something to do with class warfare.

I used to see it in the British fishing magazines, too -- a differentiation between those who leased expensive trout and salmon spots and other who fished for "rough" species.

What a shame.

How can they bring in a ban for a certain size limit ?

Seems really strange to me.


Is it set in stone ?

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
How can they bring in a ban for a certain size limit ?

Seems really strange to me.


Is it set in stone ?

Is B.A. operated by the Brit Gov't or is it a private business like James Purdey & Sons?
JP&S could ban you from walking in their door with a red shirt on if they wanted too.

I think it is like Qantas, a Private Company
BUT because it is such an icon, it has strings attached !!!

.

Does the SAA Aerbus flight still stop at Sal Island in the Azores? My wife and I took that flight from Atlanta to Joburg a few years ago. It was hell being on the ground after 12 hours in the air and not being allowed to de-plane and stretch our legs. The Delta flight this year on a 777 was direct. Nice airplane, good service, on time, and nonstop.

I am suppose to leave this week with my rifle chambered in .500NE on BA. Just emailed Gracy Travel.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that a paedophile is often more popular in the UK than a hunter is.

You are not far from the truth..Spot on actually!.
The problem with England and their traditions in gun cuture is that so called upperclass people always had an access to sporting firearms. Their gunculture begame strict when the commen man suddenly could buy a firearms out of his monthly paycheck. Most politician almost lined up to prevent this and today still is today. From a historical point of view its quite clear why the people of the british isles who wanted to be free went west, and all the slaves were left behind.

Actually, not quite. It started when the last Czar and his family got topped. The British Royals let it be known that they were not so keen to follow the same road as their cousins. So succesive British Governments have slowly reduced any revolutionaries chances of arming themselves. Since then, disarmament of the British public has been ably assisted by the cabbage, carrot and nut eating brigade.
Further, it wasn't quite slaves that were left behind, but those who considered it a high risk to bath more than once a week [Saturdays] and thought that a first class meal was fish and chips [fries] eaten out of an old newspaper.

One good thing about being English is that when foreigners like you take the piss out of us we are amused by the fact that you don't mock us half as well as we do ourselves. And as for Brits taking heat from South Africans? I don’t really think so.

There has always been a certain good will here towards our Japie mates so, when the guys who own your country finally kick you out, there’s always a job for you here. Working behind the bar with all the other “when we” walts.

Having said that, many of us here are enjoying the hammering your Tutu is handing out to that complete doos Blair. So thanks for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
Does the SAA Aerbus flight still stop at Sal Island in the Azores? ....

No it does not, at least for the last 12 years or so.

The Washington departure stops in Dakkar, Senegal to fuel and change crews, 8 hours into the flight.

The New York flight is non-stop to Johannesburg.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:


There has always been a certain good will here towards our Japie mates so, when the guys who own your country finally kick you out, there’s always a job for you here. Working behind the bar with all the other “when we” walts.
Having said that, many of us here are enjoying the hammering your Tutu is handing out to that complete doos Blair. So thanks for that.

As I can trace my South African ancestry back to the early 1700s, who owns what, and if I do choose to leave, it will be of my own accord and in my own time. I do not think I will be serving up warm dishwater behind a bar counter in the Damp Isles.
Tutu is not mine and Blair is an indication that the only decent PM Britain has had since Churchill, has been Maggie Thatcher.
I am sure your Japie mates appreciate your good will and from what I have heard, their skills and work ethics have benifited GB in positive manner, some even in recent times, making the supreme sacrifice in your armed forces.
Back to this thread, I am certain that it was not a South African who came up with the 11mm BS. If it was, you are more than welcome to keep him or her.

For LHowell:
I asked about the SAA flight from Atlanta to Joburg. My last trip was in 2005, and the flight stopped at Sal. I have no interest in running afoul of the gendarmes in NY, NJ, Washington, etc., I have enough problems flying out of LAX.

Cheers,
Tim

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
While you are stewing over larger than 11mm rifles the rule says "firearms larger than 11mm".
That would include any shotgun larger than a .410 so even the most ordinary shotgun would be banned and many large caliber handguns.

Ah, common misperception about definitions here. In the UK shotguns are "sporting guns". Firearms are center fire and rim fire rifles. Also included in the firearm catagory are shotguns with over three rounds in the magazine and all slug/buckshot rounds. We have seperate certificats for sporting guns and firearms.

The 11mm rule will not effect sporting guns. That is not to say that some idiot counter agent might attempt to do so but my shotguns are CLEARLY marked on my shotgun certificate and NOT on my firearm certificate.

Cole,

I hope you won't mind me correcting you slightly there.

What you say is correct within the UK but the airlines are bound by the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act & that defines all shotguns, handguns & rifles as 'sporting Firearms' which they are allowed to carry and/or 'Weapons of War' Which they are not allowed to carry.

Therefore as far as they're concerned, there isn't a difference between a shotgun & a rifle etc. All are classified as firearms..... Although as you say, whether a check in agent would know that is a different matter.

FWIW, a 'Weapon of War' is defined in the act as any calibre that has ever been adopted by a military force and everything else is a sporting firearm.

Hi
Coming from the UK we find BA a complete load of crap. I have been to SA 7 times hunting and only used BA once. (Got a free upgrade from a mate to 1st class).
I generally use SAA but they are getting greed on pricing. Also have used Iberia, Air France and Lufthansa. Never had a problem as they are part of the SAA Star Alliance. You have to do a stop in the country concerned but that cuts the flight to Joberg down to 9 hours.
Not had to pay on SAA but Iberia charged 40 euro going but nothing returning.
I send clients out to SA and will be recommending anyone except BA.
Also recently found out the South Africans are trying to charge up to 300USD to bring ammo back from East London. Just been told this by a client. He dumped the ammo there so it looks like they're as bad as we are!!
Good luck everyone
Adrian

Just curious, I have only flown one time and that was in Canada. In looking at the stuff on BA , how is this to be interpreted:

quote:

Firearms above 11mm calibre will not be accepted for carriage as passenger hold baggage – they may only be carried as cargo.

Does the above merely state that such firearms cannot be put on the plane at all, or that they can be shipped as regular cargo in the hold, but is not allowed as "carry-on" baggage?

Firearms can't be taken as cabin baggage so the ban means firearms of 11 mm or over may only be taken as cargo & there are a variety of problems with doing that and a travelling hunter might just as well discount that option right from the start.

There is a BA route from SA to Zim that is flown by Comair. Does anybody know if this new regulation also applies for them?

Good Hunting

CF

After contacting BA it seems that no one there is sure where this 11mm thing came from. They told me it might be a 'typo' and are looking into it.

Thank you for the info.

Ethiopian Airlines has always been hunter savvy. They have a great reputation in africa over the past forty years.

Check them out if convenient.

When I heard about this, I emailed a friend who works for BA and he then spoke to the relevant senior managers who then passed the problem on.

The upshot is that the ban is now withdrawn and larger than 11 mm are now OK to travel and I've been asked to pass the good news onto the forums.

I haven't checked to see if the website has been amended but am told it will be.

My thanks to BA for responding so quickly & positively to their customers needs.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
When I heard about this, I emailed a friend who works for BA and he then spoke to the relevant senior managers who then passed the problem on.

The upshot is that the ban is now withdrawn and larger than 11 mm are now OK to travel and I've been asked to pass the good news onto the forums.

I haven't checked to see if the website has been amended but am told it will be.

My thanks to BA for responding so quickly & positively to their customers needs.

Still listed on their website as a ban of 11 mm

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
There is a BA route from SA to Zim that is flown by Comair. Does anybody know if this new regulation also applies for them?

Good Hunting

CF

Comair is a regional that code shares flights with BA but is not owned by them, IIRC. I am guessing they have their own firearms transport regs. as an FYI, their flights from JNB to both Bulawayo and Harare are usually cheaper than SAA.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Still listed on their website as a ban of 11 mm

Yup. I saw that.

My latest email (in part) says:

"Steve

ba.com have been asked to change it.
It will probably be part of their next update."

In the meantime, if anyone is travelling BA they're welcome to contact me if they need details & I'll pass them on but I'm not comfortable posting (full emails & names etc) emails that have a privacy clause at the end of 'em.

Now, what was the reason for that?

We flew united to Washington then Saa to jhb then Zim but the rifle was not loaded in Dulles despite 4 hour wait. Gracie travel says this may be a problem next year with united to Saa feed. Anybody had this problem. I just came back from SA with delta but no rifle and direct flight. Worked out well. Anybody used delta with rifle and how did it go?

I did United Albuquerque to Dulles to SAA Johannesburg July 30 and it worked well.

The BA website has now been amended.

My thanks to all at BA for responding so quickly to customers needs.

Quoted from the BA web-site; still doesn't quite make sense!

Packing requirements for South Africa or Italy
Firearms and/or ammunition will be accepted provided they are packed in an appropriate carriage case, or if this is not possible, packed securely inside a suitcase with your personal effects. If the firearm and/or ammunition is carried in addition to your free checked baggage allowance, extra bag charges will also apply.
Firearms and ammunition are not allowed in hold luggage with general personal possessions.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Cole,

I hope you won't mind me correcting you slightly there.

What you say is correct within the UK but the airlines are bound by the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act & that defines all shotguns, handguns & rifles as 'sporting Firearms' which they are allowed to carry and/or 'Weapons of War' Which they are not allowed to carry.

Therefore as far as they're concerned, there isn't a difference between a shotgun & a rifle etc. All are classified as firearms..... Although as you say, whether a check in agent would know that is a different matter.

FWIW, a 'Weapon of War' is defined in the act as any calibre that has ever been adopted by a military force and everything else is a sporting firearm.

Steve.

They are actually all firearms aven in the uk. It is just that rifles are section one firearms and shotguns section two I think. We also have section 5 weapons which are pistols and autos etc which are generally prohibited with limited exemptions.

Sporting firearms in general include rifles and shotguns. It is just a classification which provides exemption from the articles of war classification.

Incidentally you can hold non sporting firearms on a uk FAC if you are given the variation.

Sorry to go off topic but uk law is often misrepresented on he Internet and is generally not as complicated as many believe

K