Ok, so here's a question for mny of you Africa veterans. Leopard or lioness for a big cat hunt? I've been to Africa twice, once in South Africa on a plains game hunt, and this past year to Zimbabwe on my first dangerous game hunt with my dad for cow cape buffalo, tuskless elephant and hippo.

I've had great expereinces on both trips, but Africa keeps calling me back and I feel like I want to give one of the great cats a shot. Obviously I can't afford to hunt a male lion, and therefore a lioness is the only viable option, meaning only certin outfits in certain parts of Zimbabwe as a viable option. I probably can't swing a return trip until 2014 at the earliest, but can't help thinking about what to do.

I"m looking at advice on what to book. Obviously if I decide lioness, that limits the number of outfitters on the list. If leopard, that opens it up a bunch. I think that if leopard, then Zimbabwe is probably the best option (can't afford Tanzania, Botswana, Zambia), although Namibia and Mozambique are not out of the question.

If you you were me, what would interest you more in the big cats, and why?

I'm also very much aware that the hunting of lioness just recently reopened in parts of Zim, and could close any time, and that who knows if leopard hunting will remain open in the future. I also understand that some outfits might not be willing to book a lioness hunt out 2 years in advance due to the unknown of whether it will remain open or not.

I"m just curious and thought I would throw this out there. Thanks,

Dan

The shooting of any female species simply does not appeal to me other than on a culling operation or for humane reasons.

What is perceived as a trophy to some does not to me and vice-versa - it is all a matter of legality, opinion and whose boat it rocks.

If I were you I would go for Leopard (while it is still available).

Hi Dan,

A lioness hunt is normally conducted the same way you would hunt a Male Trophy lion. Bait animals shot and hung with drags. So you will have the bait bucket experience as well. It is an exciting and obviously time consuming process,with lots of driving involvrd.

As far as leopard is concerned it totally depends on which method you wish to follow i.e off a bait or with dogs.(i personally don't like the dog method, but that's just my opinion)As far as a Bait Leopard hunt is concerned it can be a very rewarding hunt, but can be very frustrating as it is like playing a game of chess, trying to outwit the leopard.Bait bucket experience included. The other aspect to it is if you want to hunt in a communal land area or a National parks safaris area. In the communal land you are allowed to use a light and as such be in the blind over night. In the parks area no light is allowed so the time spent in the blind is limited to daylight hours with couple of hours either side in the dark. (Zimbabwe Laws)

Either leopard or lioness is a good start to cat hunting. I personally would go for a Leopard.

Regards

Paul

Bubye conservancy has some attractive deals on lioness these days.

I would go with the Leopard

If hunting for either of these were to be stopped soon, I would hedge my bet on it being lion first.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
If hunting for either of these were to be stopped soon, I would hedge my bet on it being lion first.

Exactly why I chose to hunt lioness last year.

I think a Lioness makes an impressive mount, and may be a higher percentage hunt than a Leopard.

Leopard hunt by a country mile!

Leopard hands down.

MDS - I say, you're cat hunting - its ALL fun! But, if I honestly had to choose just one of the two listed. I would definitely try for a "big" tom leopard - JMO.

IMO, Definitely Leopard.

Mad Dogs Son;

What a great choice to have to make...I vote for the Tom Leopard!

Best regards, D. Nelson

Dan,

Lioness hands down.

Mike

Son, that's what ya get for askin' this bunch!


Mad Dog

I'd say the Tom Leopard. So far your hunting has been pretty much females without a lot in theway of great mounts. A lioness would be pretty cool, but the mount wouldn't be as impressive as a big Tom Leopard with those great gold and black contrasts.

Ask yourself which you'd be more proud to show to your friends.

You are going to have a great time whatever you decide. What I would do shouldn't influence what you want to do. Which ever floats your boat more. Let me ask you, which do you think would give you the greatest sense of accomplishment?

465H&H

One never knows how long lion hunting will be open.

I've thought about this some myself. A couple of questions I would ask myself is if you are into the dangerous game frame of thought, which do you think would be the more dangerous to hunt and why. Another is do you want to hunt at night (leopard) or during the day if after lioness and do you want to spot and stalk or shoot over bait. It is a tough decision and I would say go after both even if you have to put one off for some time.

I would stack my bet on Lioness as the one that might not be available in the future...you will be called back AGAIN, and AGAIN...and Leopard should be there...and they are VERY challenging, and you may not get one on your first hunt unless you are lucky...I did 4 Leopard hunts before I connected...then got a big one first night in the blind with John Sharp...who and where is VERY important to success!!
I would go for the Lioness!

I vote for lioness. Leopard hunting will be available as long as we can hunt in Africa. Lion hunting is less and less available and is only going to get worse. Do it now. Plus, success rate for a lioness hunt has to be greater than a leopard without dogs.
I have seen a pedestal mount of a lioness from the shoulders forward that was very impressive!

How much does it cost to hunt a lioness ?

L

Leopard. A much more impressive trophy. I have both and find the leopard much more interesting.

Lioness may be next on my list. I can't afford a male either but in the long run, I believe leopard hunts will be available long after the opportunity to hunt lion has ended.

I am struck by the number of responses that emphasize the trophy rather than the experience. I have had very few bad times when hunting anything - and it boils down to the memory for me.

The experience is roughly the same whether you hunt male or female - except the aspect of being selective - whether that means holding out for a 58" kudu or a mature male lion.

The trophy hunting experience has been so bastardized in recent years that I don't care about the size or gender. All it takes is money to bag a big whitetail or a world record sable if you are content to shoot one in a pen.

I haven't had the pleasure of lion hunting. But I loved the strategy, baiting, and waiting involved in the leopard hunts I have been on. Seeing lioness on a leopard bait 40 yards away on my last trip gave me a peek into lioness hunting though - and I would have tripped the trigger in a heartbeat given the chance!

It's the experience that counts.

Do you just shoot the first Lioness on bait or does your PH try and determine age or indeed whether she is barren, weaning or pregnant?

How would this effect the social structure of the pride? After all you are effectively removing one of the prides providers?

What is the lion population that can tolerate the removal of females?

Personally I would say these questions have not been answered - but yet again I could be wrong.

For your money and indeed size does matter I would recommend Zim for a big mature tom and hunt along side some of the best.

Acer, I whole heartedly agree with you that it is the experience that counts! That's why when I went to Zimbabwe last year, my dad and I hunted cow cape buffalo and tuskless (and hippo) for the experience. With the buffalo for sure, it was exatcly the same hunt, I just pulled the trigger on a cow instead of a large bull in the herd.

As for making the decision between a leopard hunt or a lioness hunt, there are many factors I have to figure out before I make any decisions. I do appreciate everyone's feedback on here though, as I try to figure out for myself what direction to go

Leopard-no question.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
One never knows how long lion hunting will be open.

Guys - I keep seeing reference to this, and I'm not sure why? Unless all you guys know something I don't? Trust me on this, Lion "Hunting" isn't going away - anytime soon!!

Now, could sometime in the for-seeable future the importation of the Lion into the U.S. for example, be stopped - yep! But hunting of the lion going away, it'll be awhile.

Larry, just using yours as an example - no offense intended.

I would be extremely happy to take either species but would have to go for a Leopard first. I personally just love the look of a life size leopard on a nice base in a trophy room. I don't believe that I am patient enough to hunt either as I don't like the sitting thing. One of the many species on my bucket list.

Lioness while you can! Leopard will be available in the future. With lion, you just never know. Governments might limit lion hunts, the US might restrict importation...anything could go wrong. The chance of that happening with leopard is much less I think. Add to the above the fact that the Lioness herself really is THE top predator out there, and she makes a truly great trophy.

Leopard while you still can.

That is indeed a difficult decision to make. Obviously if one has both the time and money, hunting both would solve the dilemma.

From all that I have read, heard, and based on my very limited experience, leopard seems to offer the most challenge.

Hunting DG females can be very exciting. Perhaps in the case of tuskless super exciting. I've not shot tuskless but those breeding herds scare the crap out of me. I think in my experience though that the buffalo is the only female DG animal that offers exactly the same experience as shooting a bull out of a herd.

In the case of a lioness I would expect the hunt to be basically just finding an old barren female. I think if you put up a bait where your PH knows there is a pride you'll have them on bait quickly and they will hardly move off when you approach the bait. Lion prides can be amazingly arrogant. My experience with male lions is quite different with the males being more cautious.

A big male leopard is wary and often not predictable. Everything can be perfect and the leopard will still out smart you.

So to the original question to hunt a lioness or a leopard I think the lioness might offer a much less challenging experience. Now if the hunt was a tracking affair it might be quite exciting as the females can be nasty when pushed. My question here would be how in a moving pride in the bush do you determine with any degree of certainty which lioness is the old barren one?

Mark

Hey MDS, have you decided what to do? I have the same excellent question you had.

Now that I think about it, why not book an area for lioness that also has a decent leopard population and bait for both. Shoot whatever comes in first if it strikes your fancy and then wait on the other cat in what might be another corner of the concession. An $X000 trophy fee added on to a safari is a whole lot cheaper than a whole other leopard/lioness hunt at $XX,000 plus airfare.

JMHO

I would say either one.The lioness hunt is more of a dangerous hunt to me,especially if one were to use open sights.

I've done leopard and have put lioness on my wish list with Zambezi Hunters if they become available on quota. I just don't think I could afford a male lion.

Hi Dan Zimbabwe parks have told most operators that there will be no quota for lioness next year. You might find that Bubye conservancy will get them cause they are private but certainly in Parks and Wildlife areas here they are off quota as of the end of this year. If you can do a lioness. It is a great hunt. I prefer leopard hunts myself but a lioness is a great way to start. You can track them or shoot them from a blind. They are also very aggressive or can be. You can always come back for a leopard. They are both great hunt and vary slightly in the way you hunt them. A lioness hunt should cost about the same as a leopard hunt so that should not be a factor. Leopard is definately more challenging to get though.

Mad Dog Jr,
Bloody shame to read Mark Vallaro's post about the end of lioness quota in Zim Parks. I took a huge old lioness in Chewore North with Ian Gibson last July. We got lucky and stalked up on her near a recent kill. Ruark said that of all the DG animals, only the leopard kept his dignity in death. It took me 25 years to find out he was wrong. My vote is for the lioness.