quote:

Originally posted by Jagter:
I noticed on this web site that the twist rates for Blaser barrels are less tight than the average rate of twist is for other rifles.
For example on a .308 Win the Blaser twist is given as 1:14" whereas normal .308 Win's twists are 1:12" and quite often as tight as 1:10".

Does this mean that a Blaser of a specific calibre is designed to fire only the light weight (shorter) bullets in that calibre range?
(The longer [heavier] the bullet, the tighter the twist need to be.)

If this is true on the larger calibres then it seems as if a Blaser rifle is not suitable for DG.

Can anybody help with this?

Try to read what is written:
.308 = 11"
.416 = 14"

Normal twist. Your question is BS.

quote:

have You ever seen a PH with a Blaser?

jbderunz ,
To answer your question: Yes. Richard Cooke that hunts with HHK in Zimbabwe uses one in a .416. His picture is below:

Norbert wrote:

quote:

Try to read what is written:
.308 = 11"
.416 = 14"

(No inches quoted for .416, but 356mm is roughly 14" - you got that right!)

On that specific web site the following is written in bold white letters in the same horizontal line:
Under the headings:
Calibre: .308Win
Twist rate (inches): 14"
Drallänge (mm): 279
279mm is roughly 11".

Só, what is it really? 14" twist over the first few inches and then 11" twist over the last few millimeters?

Or would you excuse yourself again being German it is so hard to understand the English meaning of what is said?

Please, get with it Norbert!
Or get the web site owner to get the facts right on that page.

No offense this is a bullshit topic. Yes they work very well.

The twist is a 1 in 11"

Aleko

HA:

Not a bullshit topic at all!
The views in all these threads are roughly 50/50 for and against the Blaser.
So what does that tell you?
Blaser is not the outright miracle that many people think it should be.
It has still a long way to go to be something generally accepted like the Mauser or even the old British .303.

quote:

Originally posted by geese:
I follow these threads about Blaser's pretty closely. There seems to be a trend. The only people to have problems of any kind with the Blaser's are Europeans.

Is it possible that the R93's being sent to the U.S. are different, better quaility, or something? Does it have something to do with cleanliness and maintenance? Could it be cleaning products or procedures?

For some reason I'm thinking that there's a plasic ring toward the front of the bolt on the Blaser. If people are using harsh chemicals to clean their rifles (most of us do), but are not taking care to keep the chemicals off of specific parts, those parts could be damaged by the chemicals I would imagine.

I don't know, I'm just trying to come up with a logical reason for failures in general and/or figure out why the problems seem to be isolated to Europe/Europeans.

You're right, but only partially. Some Europeans absolutely despise the R93 whereas other love it.

Those who don't like it are either traditionalists who will not tollerate any modern composite material on their gun or they are heavily influenced by press releases. There has been an incident where the bolt came flying in the face of a shooter. It went through the press without proper consideration of all facts. An invetigation of the case revealed that the accident happened with reloaded ammunition which exceeded pressure levels which were more than double of the allowed. Tests on other R93s also showed that this sort of accident was only possible on guns which were build with plastic receiver. But such receivers were only build over a very short period of time and are also considered to be "save" when tested under "normal" overpressure.
You all know how it goes, I critical press release and all merrits are gone.
Luckily there are still quite a number of shooters in Europe with enough common sense to realize that all these security concerns are just plain b...sh.. in the light of other accident with other rifle brands, which also happen.

remarkable: most problems with this system appear in the non-owners group.

Here is a link to the article about R93 Blasers going KABOOM and taking off the side of people's heads.

Go to this link:

Deportiro On-Line

Click on U.S. flag for 'Index of Articles' in English. The first article is 'Accidents with Blaser rifles Model R93'.

To see the photgraphs, including the victims, go to the 'Indice de Notas' in Spanish. Under "Sección Armas Largas", click on 'Accidentes con el Fusil Blaser R93'

Down towards the middle of the article are links to two of the victim's pictures. Click on 'Imagen de primer Tirador Herido' and 'Imagen de segundo Tirador Herido'. This second link gives you an idea of how you will look once the bandages are removed. If you enjoy hunting dangerous game, the Blaser 93 can give you that same thrill every time you use it.

Everyone has to make up their own mind whether they feel lucky or not on any particular day, but my advice to Blaser owners is to keep your weapon scrupulously clean, don't use any reloads, don't use lead bullets, keep factory ammo out of the heat to avoid high pressures.

Good luck to all of you and I hope we don't see any more of these unfortunate weapon explosions.

That's exactly the kind of defamation I was talking about. Do YOU own a Blaser? Have You ever owned one? I would bet not.
I could puke listening to such "experts".
I will blow up any gun you like. It's just a matter of doing right.
An R93 will not fire if any of the vital parts are obstructed in their function. But that will very rarley happen. Tests comparing a Mauser 98 with a R93 have proven that the Blaser will work even more reliably than the Mauser. The test consisted of buckets of sand being poured over the actions. The Mauser stalled, the Blaser worked.

I do not own a Blaser, but from what I can tell, as long as the cartridge meets the minimum legal requirements for the country and the intended quarry - it is a DGR.

The Masai use spears on lions, so, I guess a DGR is whatever will kill the intended DG animal.

No sense arguing over the Blaser vs the Remington vs. the Sako vs. the Weatherby vs. the Kimber. They will all do the job.

McFox,

If a rifle blew up and hurt some people, what difference does it make if Mr. Bunn owns one or not?

And why would you consider it defamation to point to a link about accidents with a particular type of rifle?

Some of us like to live on the edge. I love hunting with a Blaser. It's more sporting than bowhunting. Will you get the game or will your rifle get you? Imagine the thrill of hunting dangerous game with a dangerous rifle.

Some people worry to much. If you don't like the Blaser and are afraid that the sky is falling don't use or buy one. Buy a stainless Sako instead.

.

huh guys lets try and cheer up a bit - R93 (I do own and exploit one) for me is just a tool and tools do broke - some in more spectacular way than the others...any rifle can blow up (I believe that R93 does not do it more often than any other) its just that you normally would not get part of your face off - maybe a finger or two or...and that is the only difference I see - with R93 giving you some anaesthesia before you get tossed or speared or trampled or...oh btw - here is an amusing article...and as Allan Bunn said good luck to you all

http://www.atthecreation.com/fantasy/blowup/yr.gun.html

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
McFox,

If a rifle blew up and hurt some people, what difference does it make if Mr. Bunn owns one or not?

And why would you consider it defamation to point to a link about accidents with a particular type of rifle?

My defenition of defamation is, if someone or something is accused of having certain negative behavorial or adherent atributes without paying tribute to the facts or circumstances under which those emerged or became evident.

The above defenition also includes the element of offence of defalcation of facts which would make the observer or listener aware of the fact that the mentiond attribute or behavior are appropriate to the cirumstances, situation or matter.

Unfortunately I cannot give you a concrete example of other rifles that have blown up. But I know, they do exist. And by that I do not refer to a specific rife but to rifles in general. They simply give up, if you overdo it.

But Blaser is a company which is and has been exposed to public critisism because of their innovative aspiration. Therefore, all kinds of people emerge from the depth of the scene seeking flaws where there are none.

I blew up a Type 38 Arisaka.

Is that statement defamation? (It is a true statement by the way.)

quote:

I blew up a Type 38 Arisaka.

No pictures?

I blew up a pre-64 Model 70. Two black eyes and a few specks of brass in the eyes and nose but nothing serious. Too bad I didn't take pictures of the incident.

I haver read this old thread with interest, and decided to bump it. DEVA (German official proof house) has performed an investigation in the accident where a shooter here in Norway got half his face blown off while shooting homeloads in his R93, calibre 8x86s. I only have access to a translation of the report in Norwegian, on the NORMA homepage http://www.norma.as/artikler/DEVArapport.htm , but some of the German members will be able to find the original text, I am sure.
The DEVA report concludes that: The cases were formed from 6.5x68S. The housing was completely destroyed, with no sign of overpressure to the bolt head, barrel or chamber, and no sign of obstructions in the barrel. They did not have access to unfired ammo, and could not say whether the homeload was safe. (Given no sign of overpresure, I would guess it was safe). DEVA found that there was a crack in the bottom of the case, leading to a severe gas leak/presure escaping into the bolt housing. The bolt housing was made of plastic, and ecompletely disintegrated, blasting plastic and bolt parts backwards and ito the shooters face. The first Blaser R93 rifles had such a plastic housing. Blaser recalled the R93 rifles in 200/2001 (in Norway) and replaced the bolt housing with a aluminium housing. All newer rifles has this aluminium housing. DEVA has run further tests with gas leaks into the new aluminium bolt housing, and since it did not break, they conclude that the R93 is safe with such gas leaks, with the new aluminium housing.
My two cents: I own a R93 (6.5x55, 300 wsm, 375 H%H) with alu housing, and I feel safe to use mine. If you own an older model, make sure to check that you dont have the plastic bolt housing on your gun. Blaser will replace it with the newer version. There have been recalls from most of the major gun manufatorers, as well as autmobil makers and others, when unsafe parts has been discovered. This is not unique to Blaser. Any gun can blow apart if you use the wrong type or amount of gunpowder, defective shells, obstruct the barrel and whatnot. Will the Blaser be more of a risk to your personal safety if this happens? I think not, but to each his own.
Here is a schetch of the R93 mechanism, for those interested:

In a recent Swedish test http://tv4nyheterna.se/2.139?videoId=1.160743, the barrels were obstructed with a bullet in 8 common guns in 30-06. Two guns blew up in a way that would have hurt the hunter (Remington and Browning), the other 6 had damaged barrels, but no risk to the shooter. Howa came out first, Blaser R93 second.
Btw, I see that some of you have fitted a Limbsaver to your R93 synthetic stock. Is it possible to get them prefit? Where? The flimsy sanitary pad that it comes with is a slip-on version, and not very effective. Would love to get another pad for mine, a Pachmayr or Limbsaver for instance.

a year ago today I was in the selous hunting buffalo. My blaser 93 416 remington performed so well that my guide Clinton VonTonder said it changed his mind on the rifle. The rifle with a scmidt and bender scope hit the buffalo right in the heart and with follow up shots inthe thickest bush the straight back bolt was very fast with the follow up shots. Mind you, it had been in the African sand alot. There was no effect on weapon with the sand. The factory ammunition performed well "federals" i took a zebra at 200 yds, an impala at 180 yds and a warthog with this weapon. Its speed is unbelievable and I trust it and believe in it. I am a remington 700 nut and believer. But, the blaser is a very fine rifle/

Since the beginning of this thread, I have hunted the Kalahari with my R93. Granted, this was not a DG hunt, but it sure involved a LOT of sand!! You could tell you operated the R93 in a sandy environment (working the bolt did not sound very "smooth"), but the rifle worked as advertised without any hickups. I did wipe it down every night, and used a (dedicated) tooth brush to clear sand out of the action, just to minimise risk.

- mike

justanother...how do I check to see if the bolt housing is plastic or aluminum? Sorry but your exploded diagram does not help much. Is the housing part of the bolt ("receiver")? I have just purchased a Blaser in 375H&H and LOVE it. I did notice that the bolt is not very "smooth" compared with some Mauser type rifles, due to the plastic magazine which it has to ride over. Have others noticed this?
Thanks, Peter.

Hi Peter. A magnet? the housing is the outer shell around the bolt. You can also tap on it with a screwdriver or something I guess. Sorry that the image did not seem very enlightening to you, there are images on this site that might be of more help. different rifle, but the bolt is the same.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn26-e.htm
I did see pictures once of the diffeent housings, the alu one is distinctively broader, sorry cant find them. I suggest you contact Blaser and ask how to identify your bolthouse
contact@blaser.de

Heres some facts for you!

A Blaser 93 is #1 UGLY

A Blaser 93 is #2 a PUSH FEED

A Blaser 93 is #3 not well suited the be used as a DGR because of numbers 1 & 2

Besides that, life is too short to hunt Dangerous game with a PUSH FEED rifle, but even worse to hunt with an UGLY, PUSH FEED rifle!

.......

/

I'd use mine!

505ED

I must confess that I don't understand the hostility here. When Ted shared his direct, personal experiences with the Blaser, the nasty responses started flooding in.

It's very simple: he shared his personal experiences. You can either call him a liar and a fraud, or you can attempt to explain away his experiences, but you can't just ignore them.

His point was that 19 out of 20 clients had no problems with their Blasers, but that 1 out of 20 had potentially catastrophic failures. The fact that YOU were one of the 19 of 20 has no real bearing on this discussion. He was discussing exceptional, but repeated events.

I find it ironic that many on this board are quick as a whip to bash Weatherbys (uncool) or Remington 700s (really uncool) or even an A-Square (OMG uncool), but that the hint of criticism of a Blaser triggers a vociferous chorus of dissent.

To be honest, I don't care much about the issue one way or the other. From what I've read, the blow-ups were caused by a design defect in older rifles which has since been fixed by the factory. I would use a current model Blaser without safety concerns or hesitation. But you cannot ignore Ted's experiences in the field and pretend that they didn't happen.

Mauser, Weatherby, Remington, Winchester, Holland & Holland. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:

It's very simple: he shared his personal experiences. You can either call him a liar and a fraud, or you can attempt to explain away his experiences, but you can't just ignore them.

His point was that 19 out of 20 clients had no problems with their Blasers, but that 1 out of 20 had potentially catastrophic failures. The fact that YOU were one of the 19 of 20 has no real bearing on this discussion. He was discussing exceptional, but repeated events.

.

He had 19-20 with no mishap, I wounder if he had 19-20 of any other type that had no mishaps! I'd say no matter how sorry a rifle is, if it had a malfunction, even one, in every 19-20 units, it would never make it to the market! I don't think he is a liar, or a fraud, but I don't think his opinion, or small experience changes anything in the design of the rifle either!

I believe the origenal question was:

"WOULD YOU CONSIDER A BLASER AS A DGR?"

My responce, quoted below, was really toungue in cheek, for the most part,but it is my opinion of ANY push feed rifle, being used for a DGR!

quote:

Heres some facts for you!

A Blaser 93 is #1 UGLY

A Blaser 93 is #2 a PUSH FEED

A Blaser 93 is #3 not well suited the be used as a DGR because of numbers 1 & 2

Besides that, life is too short to hunt Dangerous game with a PUSH FEED rifle, but even worse to hunt with an UGLY, PUSH FEED rifle!

I fail to see how that is brow beating anyone, the question was asked, and I answered it, and gave the reasons why!
If a person can't take the answers, then he shouldn't ask the question,the way I see it!

analog_peninsula,frankly it doesn't make any difference what name brand, or model no you ask about, there will be those who are not going to agree with your take on the subject. The way I see it, if a person's skin is that thin, he needs to take up only reading his own posts,and agreeing with himself, and nothing more!

Peter,

We may disagree about S&W revolvers, but I was pleased to read about your purchase of the R93 in .375 H&H. I have one also.

Fantastic rifle, and Aleko at Heritage Arms is a first-rate dealer.

The bolt will quickly smooth out with repeated cycling of a round from the magazine.

Most R93 critics have never even handled the rifle, much less taken time to familiarize themselves with its revolutionary design.

Cheers

Ruark I honestly cannot remember us disagreeing about S&W revolvers, but I DO LOVE my Blaser. Surprisingly, the recoil is not that bad. Off a bench, the barrel recoils upward off the rest. The assembly is simplicity itself, the LOP is just right for me, and it seems to be a nice, light, quick handling rifle with plenty of accuracy ie. sub 1" 3 shot groups. I am just amazed. When I go to Africa next, this will be going with me! BTW while Aleko is good, 505ED deserves a lot of the credit for holding my hand along the way!
Peter.

I would agree for DGR it worked great and saved my bacon with its speed when the buffalo was a coming.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
MacD37:

Said that too untill I saw what an experienced Blaser shooter can do with a 416 Rem in a Blaser....... it puts doubles and Mausers to shame when taken on head to head in speed shooting....... it's like firing a machine gun and very accurate as well

What is more there are more and more of these new fangled guns coming out of Europe ! seen the new Merkel? More substance than the Blaser with the same mode of operation.

While we on this topic...(!), is there some place that explains how the Blaser works? When closing the bolt, there is a very definite "click" for want of a better term that implies that something is happening, falling into place, locking up or whatever the correct term is.
Peter.

I wouldn't fly on an airline that failed 1 out of 20 times. Oh wait I did... scAir Zim.

I prefer a double rifle for African hunting.

However I have been using a Blaser R 93 for several years.

I have used it in very dusty, very rainy, below freezing, [even when the rifle was under water for over 7 minutes], ad well ad over 100 degree weather. I have never had one single problem with the Blaser.

I have shot them quite a bit.

I have owned and shot many many different bolt rifles including some HIGH dollar cusatom guns.

NONE of them have been anywhere near 100% reliable.

The Blaser R 93 had been the MOST RELIABLE BOLT RIFLE I HAVE EVER FIRED, regardless of calibre.

And I have fired a LOT of rounds through a LOT of different bolt rifles.

The Blaser R 93 is the ONLY bolt rifle I would trust for Dangerous Game.

quote:

Originally posted by justanothernorwegian:
I see that some of you have fitted a Limbsaver to your R93 synthetic stock. Is it possible to get them prefit? Where? The flimsy sanitary pad that it comes with is a slip-on version, and not very effective. Would love to get another pad for mine, a Pachmayr or Limbsaver for instance.

I don't know about the others, but I had the gunsmith take 1" off the end of the butt, and fit a Limbsaver. To do that he simply epoxied some walnut into the cavity in the rifle butt, and fitted the pad to that.

Works just fine.

BTW, I have used this rifle, with it's 9.3 x 62 BBL fitted, on Scrub Bulls and Buffalo here in OZ, and would do so again without any concern over rifle failures.
JMHO, others obviously feel differently...

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

I don't know about the others, but I had the gunsmith take 1" off the end of the butt, and fit a Limbsaver. To do that he simply epoxied some walnut into the cavity in the rifle butt, and fitted the pad to that.

I've had all my synthetic R93 stocks modified in the same way - although I have used Pachmayer Decelerators instead.

At the same time, I have the stock cavity filled with an expanding insulation foam - weighs next to nothing, but cuts down on resonance in the stock. That is not only nice for quietness in the woods, it also saves you having resonance from the shot transferred to your ear and related bone structures.

- mike

How could Germans make a such agun like blaser ?
yes

I hope there is a lot more Blaser bashing. Then the price will come down and I can buy more.

No.

Like it or not, Blasers are selling like hot cakes. And I have seen quite a number of them that were very accurate right out of the box. Personally I do not own one, but that is because I grew up with the M98 and find it impossible to change what has been ingrained in me for more than 3 decades of shooting and hunting.