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I think JJHACK has a valid point about the integral locks. It has me thinking that the Tuff-Pak is maybe NOT the way to go. This point will be dismissed, I'm sure, by some, but it is a legit concern. If TSA breaks that lock on a Tuff-Pak, your guns are staying where they are-period. They won't put that case back on the plane if it won't lock. I think we should put pressure on Tuff-Pak to offer a retro-fitted lock that can be secured with an external pad-lock. The Tuff-Pak is a great product, with a fatal flaw. I hope they can fix it... | ||
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Quote: This from the TSA website: Firearms and Ammunition Firearms - There are specific regulatory requirements to transport a firearm: The firearm must be checked with the air carrier as luggage. Firearms are prohibited from carry-on baggage. The firearm must be declared orally or in writing in accordance with the air carriers procedures (contact your air carrier for their specific procedures). The firearm must be unloaded. The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked and only the passenger may retain the key or combination. All checked baggage is subject to inspection. If during the inspection process it is necessary to open the container, air carriers are required to locate the passenger and the passenger must unlock the container for further inspection. The firearm may not be transported if the passenger can not be located to unlock the container. If you are traveling with a firearm, pay close attention to airport pages and announcements. If requested, provide the cooperation necessary to inspect your firearm. Ammunition - Ammunition is likewise prohibited from carry-on luggage. Ammunition may not be carried loose. It must travel in the manufacturer's packaging or other packaging suitable for transport. Consult your air carrier to determine quantity limitations or whether the ammunition must be packed separately from the firearm. | |||
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I have both a Pelican and a Tuff Pak. The Tuf Pak wins hands down for me. The Pelican is a great case, but it is HEAVY! With the Tuff Pak weighing only 17lbs., it's wheels, the ability to store clothes, boots, binoculars, etc., makes it my choice | |||
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Nobody paged me in Houston to open my gun case, but they did use my spare opened lock to resecure the case, after cutting off the original! I fly just about 4-6 times a week on average. I have seen very little consistancy. I have been travelling with my Archery equipment almost every trip now. Last week I asked for hand inspection at SEA TAC so I could lock my ICC archery case. The Ticket counter lady asked if there was a firearm in the case and I said no only archery. She stated that I should leave the case open and check it no need to inspect it if there is no gun. I said I wanted a hand inspection and the right to lock the case. She stated to me that was not my option if there is no gun I cannot request a hand inspection. I asked for her supervisor and again requested a hand inspection with the right to lock the case. Within 5 minutes a TSA agent was searching my case and placed the locks on the case. It's clear to me that not every person you ask is equally knowledgable of the rules. As much as my flight schedule annoys me lately It does keep me on top of the changes that occur from day to day and from airport to airport. To simplifiy this in the future I have a 25 dollar 22 long rifle derringer I will include in the archery case. Then I will get a hand inspection with locks installed without any questions! | |||
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Well...I am still above ground and selling Tuffpaks. One just left for FL a few moments ago and one to CA. So...if you need a gun case to fly about the world in...I am ready to ship when you are ready to buy. We have pounded this best case this and that subject into the ground about a million times.  I will let the case reputation rest on those that own and use them.  To answer any question about the lock...we have no plans to make any changes to the current vending machine key locking system. I appreciate all the kind recommendations from the hunters and shooters using this case and rest assured we will do our best to provide you with the best traveling cases today and in the future. May we be of service to you today? | |||
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I have used the 2 gun SKB in the past, but the locks are easily pickable and breakable. One of the locks quit working (4 on the case) when I tried to lock it up on a trip back from Africa, and the TSA (when I hit stateside) almost refused to let me continue on home. I switched to an aluminum (Kalispell) case with the locking rod and a separate lock. I love it. I use a combination lock on it (no key to ever use), and have a spare lock tucked inside just in case I need a replacement. No gun damage whatsoever, despite some surface damage on the case showing that the baggage apes were active that day. FWIW, I also used the locking rod as a cleaning rod when I forgot mine on a stateside trip. It didn't seem to hurt the rifle any. Anybody want an SKB case with only 3 working locks? | |||
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Harry, If I've understood correctly, what you are saying is that the Tuff-pacs lock is very sturdy etc, but the fact remains that if the airport guys want to open the case, they'll have to ruin the lock. Which they undoubtably will do if they so wish. If not in the 1st world, then in the 3rd... Thereby leaving the case unlocked for the remainder of the journey, however far that may be, and with perchance several plane changes and numerous airports to pass thru. And no matter how well protected the lock is etc. it can be opened. Any lock can be opened one way or the other. If there's a will, there's a way... To believe otherwise would be naive IMO. I know that you sell them and therefore are naturally interested in promoting the upsides, but lets face it, it obviously has a downside too! And this should be addressed. Since you sell so many as you've mentioned previously, perhaps you can suggest to the manufacturer that a facility for using a padlock in emergancy situations be added to enhance the product. Only then will it be "the perfect case" in my, and it seems several others opinions. Until then, I think I'll stick to my Pelicases with 2 padlocks and the option of leaving a spare or two inside. Incase it's opened without my knowledge or consent. Erik D. | |||
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Tuffpak, it's the only way to fly. | |||
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Erik...I could slip in the tub tonight, get run over in an intersection...we are not going to change the lock. A padlock on the inside would not do you any good if the original is damaged so...enjoy using what ever you wish. I never expected everyone to use a Tuffpak. I sell all types of cases as I am a retail hunting store...all I know is the proof is in the pudding...Tuffpak like Glock handguns...outsell anything else double or better. Enjoy your case. In the meantime many of us (me included) will continue to travel in what we feel is the best traveling gun case in the world to date....Tuffpak. Thanks for your input. | |||
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Mims, If you won't call B.S. I will! There is no two gun aluminum case that weighs less and can carry as much as a tough pack! PERIOD!! I bought my Tuffpak from you in 2000 and have used it on two African safari's and two trips to Canada. My safari's were pre, and post 911. When my wife and I went to S.A. this year, I simply asked the airline agent for a T.S.A. hand inspection and after it was completed they placed a pressure seal (a very sticky decal that can't be removed in one piece) over the lock. The best thing about the Tuffpak is the ammount of other clothing and gear you can pack inside. The guys on my last Caribou hunt ooooed and awwwwed when I pulled out my rifle, along with my sleeping bag, 100% of my clothing, and my boots and shower shoes. The only reason I needed a checked bag, was for my ammo. I did have a back-pack for my camera, GPS and medication/travel kit. As far as the lock goes, I will Knock the S.O.B. off myself and fabricate a lock system if the airlines start refusing them. My bottom line is, the Tuffpak will ALWAYS be my traveling gun case!!! BOWHUNR | |||
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If you will look at the case you will note that the lock itself is pretty well protected by molded in bumpers around it. It is a round vending machine lock. I am not sure how you would "cut it off" as first you have to get ahold of it. You might beat it into the inside of the case somehow but you are going to mess up a bunch of stuff that way and I am not even sure you can do that. It would be a damn site easier to just saw the case into rather than try and beat the lock! | |||
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I'm still a bit curious about the lock situation. I know some guys have said that they have been paged, some guys said the get a hand inspection, etc., but that isn't the way it always works out. 3 times in the past 1.5 years I have had my lock cut off my gun case, and the first I ever knew about it was upon pick-up. Mr. Hack has a good solution--put a second lock inside, but, regarding the Tuff Pack--it appears obvious that they will on occasion open your case, and they may not call for your assistance. If they decide to do your case and it is a Tuff Pac, isn't the whole latching mechanism messed up? Can they then even close your case? I'm not throwing a rock at the Tuff Pac, just asking about what if? | |||
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So far, I have used four gun cases for airline travel, including the Browning Travel Vault, a Cabelas Bullet Proof (it isn't), a Kolpin, and finally an Aluminum case made by APX Enclosures in Mercersburg, PA. Of these, my Browning Travel Vault was the second best. The best by far is the Aluminum case made by APX. I have taken it on three trips so far and my guns got there every time in perfect shape. I can't say the same for any of the other cases. If you are interested in purchasing my Browning case, I will part with it for any fair offer of $100 plus or minus, negotiable. FOB. I won't part with my APX case. Buy your own. You can contact the manufacturer for information at: cpeters@tricountyencls.com | |||
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Quote: I like the TuffPak and was about to buy one until my plans changed and this year's trip is off until next year. With that said, It will be interesting to see the apologists when (not if) the first AR member has his Tuff Pak destroyed by airport officials because they couldn't easily cut off the "vending machine" style lock, his clothes are sent forward in a cardboard box, and his gun is still in the states because it is no longer in a locked case. Perhaps then, the weakness of a non-TSA openable lock will be addressed.  | |||
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I agree with BOWHNR. I looked at alot of different cases(12-15) of all different makes before purchasing a Tough Pack. I am very happy with it and do not regret my decision. It has been on 2 trips w/o a hitch and I will continue to use it for all future hunts. I think the versatility it affords in such a compact space is a huge asset. My last trip to Montana is a case in point. My guide couldn't believe that all I brought with me was a Tough Pack and one medium duffle bag. He was worried that I didn't bring enough warn clothes. Once I explained that I had plenty of clothes packed along with my rifle he was satisfied. The integral lock issue could be a problem but, as BOWHUNR said replacing the lock might be an option. I don't think it would be hard to do at all. Harry, a couple questions for you... Can I get a second set of keys for my Tough Pack? Do you have replacement lock units available....? Regards, Dave | |||
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LMAO! | |||
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Nitro X, I suggest you re read the thread again and you will see several people, my self included, have reported having their locks cut off their luggage. Nope, it does not appear to have happened to any one with a TukkPack but thats not the issue. And while most people talk about the TSA and their procedures, what is an unknown factor is the airport security agency's belonging to other country's. I wonder what happens if you arrive in Africa only to find your lock has been drill out..How are you goungto bring your firearms back on the return flight? The addition of a couple of eyes or a simple hasp to the Tuffpack by the makers seems the simple solution; people might even consider fitting such things themselves seeing as the case is only plastic. Regards, Pete | |||
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I agree that TuffPaks have a SERIOUS WEAKNESS in the locking system. The TuffPak should be redesigned to accept a packlock. Although I own a TuffPak and travel with one, it now makes me nervous and I would not purchase another until they change the lock. In fact, I am trying to decide whether to ditch my TuffPak in favor of a case that takes a padlock. Unresponsiveness from a manufacturer, such as TuffPak, causes consumers to switch to different products. The result is loss of sales, loss of market share, and a slide to an inferior position in the industry. TuffPak should beware that this is exactly where they are headed, and an arrogant attitude will only bring it about more quickly. | |||
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Quote:John,Quote: If you have a chance, perhaps you should ask Will if he knows anything about this type of problem. He might know something about it. Or I could be wrong. | |||
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Quote: Re-read my post. I said "when" not "if" Sure, it all hypothetical discussion, as is a great deal of what is discussed around here. Proactive vs reactive. I think the manufacturer's attitude that "we aren't changing" is narrow sighted. History is full of obsolete products that were "the last ________ you will ever need!" Maxim's machine gun was invented to "end all war" Anyway, since my trip to Africa this year has been postponed, at least I can dream about my luggage being ripped apart by the TSA??? Can't I??? | |||
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500 Grains, I have the perfect solution to your problem. IF your case has yet to be used why don't I buy it back from you? You seem to think it is a BIG disaster waiting to happen. I am getting plenty of negative from you and to be truthful...it ruffles my feathers. Now I am trying to figure why in hell you bought one if you are so worried about something that the majority of us do not feel will happen. If your Tuffpak is unused then put it back it the box and ship it to me UPS ground. I will cut you a 100 % refund and you can use it to buy whatever you think will make you happy. I am sure a Tuffpak is not going to work out for you and I hate to cause you such stress and worry. Better than that...even it is used some... I will give you half what you paid and still pay the frt. back. I can sell that case to someone that will appreciate it! | |||
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Quote: Isn't this dicussion all a bit of verbal diarhorrea. NO ONE has reported a problem. No one seems to have had a problem to date. So why all the worry  There are a lot of IFs in life and this discussion appears to be nothing but IF IF IF IF. | |||
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Longbob, If you were not in hot water over something most of us would never recognize you! Forge ahead as per ususal...or should I say..."Go forth and enjoy!" | |||
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I've been trying to stay out of trouble. It's not working... | |||
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Harry, First of all, I have to say you have the most unusual (and perhaps unwise?) sales attitude I've ever seen. I personally would have rather heard you say "Hmm, yes maybe we can see if an extra emergency padlock facility can be incorperated into the product to make it even better". Even if this was a downright lie from your side, at least we as customers (or potential customers) would think "Yeah, this guy is actually interested in listening to the consumers, unlike all the other a$$holes that sell stuff they pretend is perfect. But of course isn't!". Admitting that your product can be made even better, one way or the other, must be a better sales tactic than behaving in your arrogant way. At least you'd appear to be honost, and interested in the customers wishes. And maybe you are interested. But it appears as if you couldn't give a $hit, from what you write! After reading thru all the post above, I can't see how you can think that 500grains is being negative just for the sake of putting down your product. I seriously doubt he'd buy one in the first place if he didn't think it was a good investment. His, and all the other posts regarding the downside of the Tuffpak have been quite genuinly about making it better for the good of all who want to use them. It isn't too late to turn this around to something positive. But perhaps an apology to 500grains would be a good place to start??? Erik D. | |||
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Well I am not worried. I have always found it almost easier to travel with firearms in my luggage than not. In Australia the firearms case after being weighed and tagged is carried around to the luggage security window and they hand deliver it to the aircraft. If they need to look inside they do then and there and after that there is no need to look in it again. It has a security tag with a receipt number. If you arrive in Australia again you go to the same sort of office to collect it at the destination with your receipt. Never had an issue with this sort of thing either in the UK, NZ, Germany, South Africa or Zimbabwe. Maybe the hacking up of luggage only happens in the USA. Many people carry mobile phones nowadays. One idea is to put a permanent sticker near the lock with your phone number. Assuming the rock-ape with the bolt cutters or drill can read they may actually be able to get you to open it up without damage. The Berliners seemed to be able to do it with me. Lets put it direct. Has ANYONE actually commenting personally had a problem with one to date? I can see the answer from the previous posts. For me I am not worried about it at all, and most of these other cases are so weak or over-the-top heavy that non-USA citizens could not even consider them if you need to carry two or more firearms. | |||
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The fact that they destroy your locking method apparently doesn't bother them for further transit without a lock, even though the regs say the case must be locked. I've 3 times had them cut my lock off, and of course I've never known when, but the unlocked case always shows up. Mr. Hack's idea of an extra lock in the case is a good one--I'll use it. I have two aluminum ICC cases, 1 is a two gun, and 1 is a breakdown. I have a padded slip case for each. They have both been on many trips all over the world and domestically, and no problems whatsoever. In my opinion, the Tuff-Pac is too expensive, too heavy, and too bulky. Anymore I almost always take the barreled action out of the stock and use the breakdown case. Knock on wood, but I have yet to have had to make any scope adjustment upon arrival. | |||
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Harry, I do not have the power to cause your demise, nor do I threaten it. The destiny of all of us is tied to market forces, and it is easier to swim with the current than against it. I am just trying to tell you which way the current is flowing. | |||
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Longbob...you have been really quite! Where have you been? | |||
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Quote: Harry, I think you are missing my point. Or maybe I have expressed myself poorly, and in a confusing way. The point is that if you have a spare opened padlock inside the case, with a note addressed to the officers who cut/picked/ruined the locks to please replace it with the spare, then the case will be locked and safe again. Which is not possible without a ring/hole/whatever for a padlock. Please read the quote below from what JJHACK wrote: Quote: So what I'm saying is that the Tuff-pak would be great if they added a ring/hole/whatever of some sort in the bottem and top of the case so it can be re-locked in an emergency! Mind you, not to permanently replace the lock it has, but as an addition to it. EDIT: What I mean with "bottom and top of the case" is the 2 pieces that slide together when you close the Tuffpack. Just incase that isn't clear... Quote: BTW, try not to slip in the tub tonight, or get run over in an intersection!  Unless you ment that these actions would help the manufacturer add a padlock possibility to regular the lock! Just kidding of course... Erik D. | |||
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Art, May I ask how you figure a Tuffpak case is too heavy? Have you weighed any double gun cases? While you may not like Tuffpak the statement that a 17 pound all up case (that holds what a Tuffpak will)is too heavy just does not compute. All this concern about locks has yet to be a concern to any of my clients that have gone as recently as 10 days ago using Tuffpaks of course. All are back home safe on base with no horror stories to tell encluding Trademark Texas who now seems so concerned. I am Corn-fused... | |||
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Just out of curiosity...would you please weigh and post the weight, size and name of your aluminum case? I own several metal cases and some "plastic" ones too but all my metal cases weigh more than a Tuffpak. I choose not to airline a Doskocil "plastic" case. I have been thru that factory twice. Good case for what it is but it is too thin in too many places for me not to mention cheesy locks and hinges. If you reread the post it does not say your are concerned about the Tuffpak lock. | |||
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I'll try and weigh it tonite, though I don't have a balance at home--well, I do, but it's a bit small--for gun powder! | |||
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I have no bitch with your locks--that was someone else. I do consider the Tuff Pak to be much bulkier than I want, and it is considerably heavier than my aluminum case. I have nothing against Tuff Pak, per se, and since I already have two airline cases, I won't be in the market for another, those are just my opinions based on looking at and handling the Tuff Pak. This is where we discuss things, and that is my opinion. I like what I have, but it's certainly not the only option. | |||
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Harry, I had the locks on my duffle cut a couple of years back, so they obviously do it time to time.... And remember its not just your security people who have a right to enter cases but also the security people in other country's...While the TSA maybe skilled enough to pick a lock, the folks in some third world backwater may just find it easier to use a Black n' Decker I notice that on Tuffpaks offered to the film industry, the lock is an opitional extra. Perhaps the makers could be persauded to include the facility to use a padlock as well? Regards, Pete | |||
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I haven't seen any problems with the TuffPak locks, or heard of any travelers actually having problems. The ammunition storage location is "intersting": required details are set by the individual airlines. TSA is fine with ammo in a gun carrier, many airlines are not. You have to know the rules of each carrier you are flying with as far as the ammo, how many guns in a case maximum, etc. jim | |||
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I have converted camp coolers to locking luggage a couple of times as a field expedient way of transporting ammo separately from my firearms (which are in a Tuffpack). This trick may be of use to people who are concerned about getting their Tuffpack lock punched out. You all know about those cheesy cable lock assemblies that come with guns these days. If you drill a small hole into the handle you can thread the cable up the handle and out the hole where the lock once was. Shove the cable end into the lock and you are good to go. If you drill the hole the right distance down the handle the cable will be slightly taught, and you won't have the cable/lock assembly flopping around. The TSA people like to get their resistance strength training by using their bolt cutters on padlocks. Hauling the Tuffpack over to a wall socket where they can plug in a drill with a hole saw attachment may be a little to much trouble for them. JCN | |||
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I dug this thread up because it is exactly what concerns me about the Tuffpak. I like pretty much everything I see about the Tuffpak except the fact that the lock is not TSA openable, nor can it be easily cut and replaced. I lost both the stainless rods off of my (hand-inspected, tagged) aluminum bowcase last year when somebody cut the TSA-openable locks off and did not bother to replace them with the spare ones I had inside. The bow made it back by the grace of God, I guess. I don't know how to address the problem of "authorized" transit inspection with any case, but I am open to suggestion. Don_G ...from Texas, by way of Mason, Ohio and Aurora, Colorado! | |||
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I think that the concern over the Tuffpak lock is unwarranted. To avoid the potential of having someone from TSA destroy the lock in order to inspect, YOU have to take the responsibility and make sure they do all of their tire-kicking before you allow them to lock it. PERIOD... With that said, someone could tamper with the lock and destroy it. Someone could also cut the ring off from a standard hinge-clasp lock and destroy it. Someone could cut the hinges off of your double-rifle case. The list goes on and on. Hey - someone could plain steal your rifle case (a significant target when someone knows it is a rifle case). Harry, one suggestion as a back-up on the tuffpak lock. It seems like a small locking block could be made to slip over the nylon buckle for the strap on top of the tuffpak. It would be similar, in concept, to the locks used on door handles, etc. If you can prevent someone from accessing the nylon buckle, you have a back-up lock on the case. Doug | |||
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I hunted with a guy last year with a Tuffpack, and since I had to cart his stuff home from Africa, I am a little familiar with Tuffpack. I was not terribly impressed - a plastic tube with guns inside with soft cases. Am I missing something? If that is all a Tuffpack is, I will take an aluminum case everytime. I don't care how much crap I can put in the gun case - protecting my guns is job No.1, and guns in a softcase inside a plastic shell are not as secure as those compressed between foam in an aluminum case. Perhaps that is why both of my guns were spot on when I arrived. Couldn't say the same for my partner's. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Best airline approved gun case
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