DOJ Sorry, guess I lapsed into a slight coma or something?? It is really fun as usual hearing all the different takes here on AR.

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Larry why are you being so sensible, you take all the fun out of these diatribes.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Judge how the Hell did you get that rate? You did stay at the Days Inn didn't you?

I didn't have a reservation and just showed up on Saturday morning at the Comfort Inn. I asked for a room and that was the rate quoted. I already had a reservation at the Hilton and was able to cancel without penalty. Just the luck of the righteous, I reckon?

Sorry Judge, I ment to say Comfort Inn were many of us stay. It is interesting that someone can walk in and get the same room for say $25 less. We must keep this in mind later this year when making res. In fact I am just printing this as a reminder.

Judge G - Just some thoughts and to carry your $400.00 spent for DSC post a little farther stricly for fun and grins. Lets make this apples to apples if we can and run it out to a 5-day, 4-night stay that most would do if coming from a little farther away than you do.

Add another 3 nights lodging ($74.00 X 3)= $222.00, add another 3 days show entry fee at approx. ($20.00 X 3)= $60.00. Your total would now be approx. $682.00.

My expenses for the same 5-day, 4 night stay in Reno and attending SCI this year were as follows; Airfare/4 nights lodging $488.00, plus $260.00 entry to 4 days at SCI show. My total was $748.00.

SCI Reno slightly higher no doubt, but not by the exaggerated amount thrown out by many of the posters here. So now the monetary choice is only $66.00 apart as to which Show to attend.

I am really glad you had fun at DSC and I certainly enjoyed mine at SCI. See ya.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Sorry, but left out one other possible item of significance. Judge you didn't mention cost of airport to hotel shuttle and hotel to Show cost. There were no additional costs to me for airport to hotel and the daily trips to the Show
and back shuttles. With this factor included it pretty much makes expenses for each show a wash and moot point don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Judge G - Just some thoughts and to carry your $400.00 spent for DSC post a little farther stricly for fun and grins. Lets make this apples to apples if we can and run it out to a 5-day, 4-night stay that most would do if coming from a little farther away than you do.

Add another 3 nights lodging ($74.00 X 3)= $222.00, add another 3 days show entry fee at approx. ($20.00 X 3)= $60.00. Your total would now be approx. $682.00.

My expenses for the same 5-day, 4 night stay in Reno and attending SCI this year were as follows; Airfare/4 nights lodging $488.00, plus $260.00 entry to 4 days at SCI show. My total was $748.00.

SCI Reno slightly higher no doubt, but not by the exaggerated amount thrown out by many of the posters here. So now the monetary choice is only $66.00 apart as to which Show to attend.

I am really glad you had fun at DSC and I certainly enjoyed mine at SCI. See ya.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry:

My main focus was that I can do two days in Dallas in two days, including flights. Considering travel connections to Reno, it would take four days to do two in the hall at Reno... and that would add two days of meals and hotel stays.. and I'd have to join SCI. Reno isn't the easiest place in the world to get to from the East Coast... and most any major city has non-stop to Dallas.

Perhaps you missed my point that I can leave home on day one, see the show, spend one night, and fly home the next afternoon after day two on the floor... so, for five days of the show in Dallas (if there were five days), I'd only have three day's hotels.. so.. it is very much cheaper and convenient FOR ME, regardless of how long I stay. Also, my $400 included food and no little drink!

So, for this pilgrim, the cost, the sometimes imperial attitude of the leadership, etc. just doesn't make it worth it to go to Reno. It's my little protest, too, perhaps. But.. to each his own.

Heck, I'm easy, though. Maybe I'll go to SCI when it's as easy as DSC 'cause it's in Dallas?

Reno is cheaper for this Canadian. Having said that SCI and DSC as well as the Grand Slam Club and the Sheep Foundation all need to swallow their collective self serving ego's and work in each other's interests. We need as much exposure as possible not winners and losers or we are all losers!

I know you guys can't be budgeted down to the last $66.00.

What about the hunt deposits?

I think that JudgeG should rebate those of us that had to pay a higher rate than he did at the Comfort Inn

I'll be at O.J. Simpson's condo in Palm Beach at 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon to pay you folks a rebate. Wait in the garden by the front door.

I think they gave me a low rate because I had no hot water last year and because this year I had promised not to tell any stories.

mrlexma - you raised another thought in my mind (??), what's left of it. It seems funny that most here have no problem when it comes to laying out $800.00 to $1,500.00 per day for their hunts, but whine beyond belief when going to a Show is $200.00 per day. This is where we put a lot of our hunts together, get to see unlimited numbers of outfitters, talk one on one with the people we will hunt with, get to see and buy all the great equipment we need/want.

I for one realize that the value of the final product usually requires some investment in the seeking and planning stages. I think the shows are a bargin priced when you keep the big picture in mind.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I know you guys can't be budgeted down to the last $66.00.

What about the hunt deposits?

Larrry, those AR members (for lack of a better description) stay ing at the Comfort Inn have our own private taxi service provided by a wonderful lady named Joyce, she is the greatest and you know that Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Larrry, those AR members (for lack of a better description) stay ing at the Comfort Inn have our own private taxi service provided by a wonderful lady named Joyce, she is the greatest and you know that Frank

Joyce met me at the airport, took me to the motel, waited until I put my bag up, took me to the show, brought me back that evening... She's the best! I've been fortunate enough to know the Bellers for sometime and even had them enjoy my part of the world while attending a wedding. No one is nicer than the two Bellers, except Frank "stole" my Coggie... but I get it in his will.

Back on topic, somewhat: Has anyone heard from an "official" source why SCI is coming to Dallas? It just doesn't seem necessary or fruitful when other parts of the country could host SCI and more folks could attend one of the 1000+ exhibitions that they and others sponsor.

I'd think that Atlanta, Twin Cities, Seattle, Orlando or Nashville (big enough?) venues would attract a local component that would have never come and become proselytes unless it was within driving distance.

In other words, what does the leadership say about the apparent "competition"? Anyone asked?

Its official....check with the Dallas convention center if you want. SCI has also included a provision that "a competitor" cannot use the convention center 30 days prior or after. I didn't think that a non profit group had competitors........DSC will have to look into other venues it appears.

Caretaker, I haven't been to either convention, but plan to go to DSC next year, with my son. If what you stated, is indeed the case, then SCI should be thrashed within an inch of their life, and SCI members should have a very serious talk with their leaders.

Mad Dog

quote:

Originally posted by Caretaker:
Its official....check with the Dallas convention center if you want. SCI has also included a provision that "a competitor" cannot use the convention center 30 days prior or after. I didn't think that a non profit group had competitors........DSC will have to look into other venues it appears.

Something is funny here. Just copied this off of the DSC site.

"More than 20,000 outdoorsmen and women will attend our four-day exposition Jan. 7-10 at the Dallas Convention Center and Hyatt Regency in Dallas."

DSC First Light 2010

Hello All,

Been to both and prefer Dallas for several reasons.
There is more for the wife to do and buy at Dallas than SCI.
Dallas is a better location than Reno, I just don't care for Casino towns.
The cost of Dallas is better than SCI.
There are slightly less vendors, but all the major names and brands are represented directly or through dealers.
I got the impression that as a whole Dallas was more laid back and friendly.
I like both, but can't understand why SCI is just so darn expensive.
Well I have been to SCI 2 times and Dallas 2 times, I think it will be DSC from now.
I will save my money from airfare and convention entry fees at Reno and put them towards my Buff hunt.

Cheers

It is possible DSC has already booked.

If SCI wants to come to Dallas and keep DSC fro having its show, that is bad sportsmanship.

I did say "if."

Oday - SCI isn't coming to Dallas until 2013, so I am quite sure DSC can use the Convention Center there for 2010,2011 and 2012 without the prescribed restrictions that SCI will have in effect for 2013. Thus their statement for the 2010 show would be correct.

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:

quote:

Originally posted by Caretaker:
Its official....check with the Dallas convention center if you want. SCI has also included a provision that "a competitor" cannot use the convention center 30 days prior or after. I didn't think that a non profit group had competitors........DSC will have to look into other venues it appears.

Something is funny here. Just copied this off of the DSC site.

"More than 20,000 outdoorsmen and women will attend our four-day exposition Jan. 7-10 at the Dallas Convention Center and Hyatt Regency in Dallas."

DSC First Light 2010

So, you are saying that even though they won't go to Dallas, until 2013, that those restrictions are still placed on the show?

If that is indeed the case, that is BULLSHIT!

I can't see SCI making any new friends with that kinda attitude.

Mad Dog

Mad Dog - go back and read my post again. I said the restrictions "WOULD NOT" go into effect until SCI comes to Dallas in 2013 and that DSC could use the Convention Center for the three years prior to 2013. That's my take on it since SCI put that in their contract effective for the 2013 Show. Heard nothing about that happening anytime prior?

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
So, you are saying that even though they won't go to Dallas, until 2013, that those restrictions are still placed on the show?

If that is indeed the case, that is BULLSHIT!

I can't see SCI making any new friends with that kinda attitude.

Mad Dog

All this still doesn't answer the question. Why is SCI going to a venue that is served by an organization that already has an effective, pro-hunting, pro-safari club and convention?

SCI claims to be interested in promoting and protecting hunting. DSC seem to be doing a pretty good job of the same in Texas (and now nationally with t.v. shows, etc.).

If both clubs have the same purpose, why try to do that which can only lessen DSC's clear success in bringing hunters, provisioners, providers, P.H.'s, neophytes, etc. together? Does DSC do something that SCI has to fix?

DSC isn't SCI, of course, or under SCI's auspices, but surely it's under the broader umbrella of promoting our hunting heritage.

In other words, what the hell is SCI's agenda? It may well be valid, but to my uninformed mind, it seems that they are being a bully who can push the smaller kid around and is exercising the "dog theory". *

We have some good folks who post here that are very active in SCI. What's up and what's next.... RMEF, Quail Unlimited, Wild Turkey Foundation?

*Dog theory: Answer to why a dog licks his privates.

quote:

Originally posted by Caretaker:
Its official....check with the Dallas convention center if you want. SCI has also included a provision that "a competitor" cannot use the convention center 30 days prior or after. I didn't think that a non profit group had competitors........DSC will have to look into other venues it appears.

If, and I emphasize IF, this is true SCI will never have any more support from me. IF they do this they have intentially blocked a hunting show and in my book that makes them anti-hunting! If this is true it illustrates what others have alluded to on other threads; that SCI is about dollars, not hunting!

If anyone has any more information on this, please come forward.

Judge and Lhook, thats my point, too!!

Larry, Yeah, I got YOUR point about 2013. My POINT is I don't care when/if they come to town. To come on DSC turf, when they got the whole damned US to hold the show, then placing those restrictions, aimed squarely at DSC is BULLSHIT, no matter when it happens.

Again, I think the SCI membership needs to have a "Coming to Jesus" meeting with the officers of that organization. And PRONTO!!

Mad Dog

MD - I have no idea who or what is behind all this at SCI or what their real intentions are? All that's (official??) right now is the move to Dallas in 2013 with the 30 day either side of the date a "non competition" clause involved. I am sure there will be a whole lot more thoughts, facts, issues and such forthcoming in the future. I'll reserve any judgement until all the facts are on the table.

Personal preference: No conventions/shows in Dallas ever, just will never go there again for any of them. I guess my contempt, if you will, for the Dallas area stems from my Manufactures Rep days, when was forced to go there and work various Shows.

Maybe the fact that I live in the Northern Mountains of New Mexico, with my nearest neighbor 3/4 miles away and the fact our little Village doesn't even have a stoplight comes into play here??

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Judge and Lhook, thats my point, too!!

Larry, Yeah, I got YOUR point about 2013. My POINT is I don't care when/if they come to town. To come on DSC turf, when they got the whole damned US to hold the show, then placing those restrictions, aimed squarely at DSC is BULLSHIT, no matter when it happens.

Again, I think the SCI membership needs to have a "Coming to Jesus" meeting with the officers of that organization. And PRONTO!!

Mad Dog

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
MD - I have no idea who or what is behind all this at SCI or what their real intentions are? All that's (official??) right now is the move to Dallas in 2013 with the 30 day either side of the date a "non competition" clause involved. I am sure there will be a whole lot more thoughts, facts, issues and such forthcoming in the future. I'll reserve any judgement until all the facts are on the table.

Personal preference: No conventions/shows in Dallas ever, just will never go there again for any of them. I guess my contempt, if you will, for the Dallas area stems from my Manufactures Rep days, when was forced to go there and work various Shows.

Maybe the fact that I live in the Northern Mountains of New Mexico, with my nearest neighbor 3/4 miles away and the fact our little Village doesn't even have a stoplight comes into play here??

Larry Sellers

Larry, like you I hate big cities,but they are where the most walk in is going to happen, and being centrally located with a large airport and an even larger airport, makes it a snap to get a flight when you want one!

I was born a long time ago on a cattle ranch 7 miles from a paved road, and 15 mile each way from there to a town the barely had 1500 population, so I know where you are comeing from.

I'm sure, as well, when SCI does its move to Dallas, everyone in attendance will be saying "I wounder why ole Larry is not here!"

Posted on 24CF:
I haven't heard about this move, but allow me pass on a couple of things about SCI.

Virtually everybody that attends SCI prefers Vegas over Reno. Easier to get to, and often cheaper with direct flights. There is far more to do in LV, and Vegas is an over the top one of a kind. Reno is still a cow town.

Exhibitors tend to prefer Reno for just those reasons. The attendees tend to stay and spend money at the show instead of wandering all over the Vegas Strip. I miss the Old days at the MGM long bar where you could lean over the rail from the bar place roulette bets. The show was smaller then, and times have changed.

One important factor is the size of the Convention and the cost of holding it. SCI is not a mega convention by Vegas standards. It costs more to put on the same show in Vegas than it does in Reno. 10 years ago I was told it cost SCI $500k more to hold it in Reno over Vegas. Although the Mob does not own the casinos anymore, who do you think runs the unions? You want electricity? You pay. You want trash and janitorial service? You pay. You NEED the Teamsters to help set it up and take it down. You get the picture?

Let's throw SCI a bone now. They are the most vocal pro hunting force on the international scene. It takes money to counter the anti's. You don't think the WWF and PETA are asleep at the wheel do you? You don't think the anti's are above influencing African countries into changing game laws for some Payola are you? That's what happens. SCI fights this, has keep many species off of the CITIES list, and without SCI, African hunting would be smaller, more restricted, and likely a thing of the past by now.

DSC is a wonderful club, but they can't do this for us. I want any of you that want to bitch about SCI think about this in it's entirety before you go off on SCI.

I have no idea why SCI wants to move to Dallas. I doubt very much it is expressly to compete with DSC. Reno might be getting difficult to deal with, or just stale. Maybe Jorge will contact DSC and get their take on it.

SCI has tried to expend over the years, and this could be another attempt to reach more people. About 15 years ago they started an East Coast show in Atlanta, then in Orlando the next year, before Reno. It bombed. Buyers went to Reno. The East coast shows, which I attended, had mostly tire kickers. It was a loser for the outfitters and for SCI, so they dropped it. I image that SCI might be trying to attract more people by changing venues.

I'll add that perhaps the idea behind the move is to have exhibitors that do both shows, which there are a few, travel less. It is probably much easier pack up an exhibit and put it on a truck for 10 miles than for 950, much less fly with your stuff.

450/400, you are going to take alot of fun away from many poester if they can't try to hang SCI out to dry for what ever reason, nothing like bitting the hand that feeds you or in this case protects your rights.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
450/400, you are going to take alot of fun away from many poester if they can't try to hang SCI out to dry for what ever reason, nothing like bitting the hand that feeds you or in this case protects your rights.

You can go back through all my posts and, prior to this thread, you will not see one negative post about SCI.

There is nothing in 450/400's post that make me question what I wrote earlier. IF the move and restrictions are true then they are more about money than hunting and I would feel like an idiot giving my money to a pyramid scheme.

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400 Jeffrey's:
Posted on 24CF:
I have no idea why SCI wants to move to Dallas. I doubt very much it is expressly to compete with DSC. Reno might be getting difficult to deal with, or just stale . . . I'll add that perhaps the idea behind the move is to have exhibitors that do both shows, which there are a few, travel less. It is probably much easier pack up an exhibit and put it on a truck for 10 miles than for 950, much less fly with your stuff.

Now I know who responds to the emails from Nigeria.

If they were tired of Reno, they could have gone to San Antonio, New Orleans, Atlanta, lots of places besides Dallas. This has all the earmarks of a power play pure and simple.

DOJ - I guess it's your turn to be sensible?? Now let's see who whines?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
450/400, you are going to take alot of fun away from many poester if they can't try to hang SCI out to dry for what ever reason, nothing like bitting the hand that feeds you or in this case protects your rights.

Larry , I was basically refering to the other string re SCI and Africa, nuff said.

Once again, this is mostly politics for SCI but there is big money involved. DSC is not worried about SCI coming to Dallas like you would think if you talk to any of their board members. Their growth has been very constant over the years and they already have a contract with the convention center in Dallas and I would bet that the non compete clause applies only to those not already under contract such as DSC. DSC show has been successful for many reasons, centrally located, easy to attend, no membership, low entry fee, big name exhibitors, a great starter show for first timers and familys and good for veterans as well,,,,,,,DSC has over 500 volunters that help put the show on, not paid employess like at SCI. The volunteers help to keep the cost low. Each show has their own special following and their pluses and minuses. I like both, I will go to DSC first when in Dallas, then maybe SCI. My personal opinion which is worth zilch,,, SCI is making a mistake. To come to Dallas 2 weeks after the DSC show, and compete with many of the same custommers isn't good business to me. If I was with SCI I would want to stay more West Coast and catch the Cal., Wash, Oregon, Ariz.,,,& mountain states that have been the mainstay of the show in the past, why turn your back on those folks now. Having been in the convention business in the past, it is that, a business. Hotels and convention centers give discounts and perks for long term contracts which increase the bottom line which in turn puts more money in each groups pockets for their programs. Always follow the money to find the reason for changes like this,. Unless someone from the leadership from SCI is willing to tell us the real reasons for movement. ??? We will continue to speculate.

What would be wrong with Phoenix or Tucson?? Both are easy to get into/ out of, are both well located, have wonderful weather during that time of yr, plenty to do outside of the convention, etc...

Hell, the office and museum of SCI is right here in Tucson!!

If I was to put to the task of choosing a city for 2013, my overall #1 pick would be San Diego.

San Antonio is another great choice, but I still think its too close to Dallas for comfort.

Mike,

I will have you know that the vaunted attorney Mr. Joshua M. Djoubiti Esq., has guaranteed me $60 million siphoned from the corrupt former regime in Lagos. All I need is YOUR bank account number and I will split it with you.

As for SCI, I really don't know what motivates them to go to Dallas, but I can't see DSC being a threat to them any more than Game COIN. SCI is about money, but they use plenty of it to keep hunting going. They also have fought for the ability to import trophies, and been mostly successful. without them, the USF&W could shut down trophy importation completely at their whim. SCI is a major obstacle for the Anti's.

We have some on the this board that are connected to SCI and DSC. Maybe we can get some answers that are not conjecture, Jorge?

going to Dallas is D-U-M-B!! I can drive to Reno in half a day, and shoot coyotes on the trip some years.

I don't fly unless I am going to Africa anymore. This is a clusterf*u*c*k by any definition. I will miss the SCI convdention.

Rich
Buff Killer

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400 Jeffrey's:
Mike,

I will have you know that the vaunted attorney Mr. Joshua M. Djoubiti Esq., has guaranteed me $60 million siphoned from the corrupt former regime in Lagos. All I need is YOUR bank account number and I will split it with you.

A sense of humour.

I am obviously just speculating too. The logic is a bit hard to discern on the surface though.

Most of the country lives more than a half day drive from Reno. No offense but that isn't a good reason to keep it in Reno.

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400 Jeffrey's:

As for SCI, I really don't know what motivates them to go to Dallas, but I can't see DSC being a threat to them any more than Game COIN.

Is Game COIN still in existance? I have not heard anything about them in years? They used to have a big time convention in San Antonio.

I am an extremely influencial power in the hunting community. I often channel with F.C. Selous and J.A. Hunter (and sometimes with Shootaway, too). My character and veracity are unimpeccable and pretty damn mystic.

Somebody give me the name and address of the President of SCI and I'll write the dude and he will immediately tell me the truth about the move. Or, I'll put the whammy of Shirley MacLaine on him. Do runnday runnday, do runnday doo.

To finance this inquiry, I will need an assignment of all your stock in the National Bank of Nigeria. Please e-mail me with detail

While you are at it, I have a NIB royal grade H&H .450 N.E. for sale for $4500 but would take a trade with a 21 day safari to Tanzania. Buyers will have a three day inspection immediately after my demise.

Seriously, SCI does a lot of good. I've been a member, on and off for 30 years, have been published in the magazine, used their insurance for my firearms and visited the show. I just would like an address to which I could send an inquiry and (hopefully) get a straight answer.