Maybe while your there you can take a crack at a tiger fish in the aquarium for the discerning
sportsmen such as yourself Or maybe next time you should hunt the stock yards might be harder then hunting that sable .

Maybe you could learn to spell

stewart,
I see you've been properly welcomed to the AR pile on. That bottom Sable is a fine looking bull, he represents himself as a larger bull than 36 inches. I shot a 37 inch bull with Fairgame in Zambia in 2005 I think.

If it is what you want to hunt, where you want to hunt and how you want to hunt piss on the rest, go do it. 5000 dollars seems just fine. Enjoy your safari.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by mstewart44:
Then I guess you would also frown on lion hunting in RSA?? That must not be hunting either?

here we go...

My price database has 53 entries for sable in South Africa only. The highest web published asking price is $ 15 000. The Third Quartile, i.e. the price below which 75% of all fall is $ 10 000. The Second Quartile, i.e. the middle value , is $ 8 500 and the First Quartile, i.e. the value below which only 25% of the prices fall is $ 7 500.

These statistics reall translates to: You can expect to pay prices between $ 10 000 and $ 7 500 for a sable in South Africa.

I sort of wonder what entitles one hunting outfitter to ask $ 15 000 while one quarter of the HO's offer sable for $ 7 500 or less?

"What is the difference between put-and-take animals and ones that have beed bred on that farm?"

Saeed,

I think most of us will agree on these, but for most of us it's probably a few things that make a difference.

The main point is that the animals should have been there long enough to know the area and not corner themselves against fences that they didn't know existed or in corners created by other natural boundaries like cliffs or rivers that the animals were not aware of. How long that needs to be I don't really know. I guess I'd prefer to hunt animals that had been in an area longer than a season, but I suppose that's a pretty arbitrary measure.

Then of course we'd prefer to hunt animals that have recovered fully from the drugging and transport and reloaction. I'd say that goes without saying.

We'd also prefer to hunt animals that have not been too habituated to humans by boma feeding, too much human contact and having been kept in small pens for long periods with peoply watering them, working in the pens etc.

MS44,

In some areas of South Africa despite challenging high fence hunting areas, some ranches are taking off more than natural population growth supports, so animals need to be introduced to make trophy quality specimens available in the relatively near future. Otherwise the rancher will have nothing to hunt for many years and therefore no income from trophy hunting and the operation will fall apart.

I prefer to hunt animals where they naturally occur (whether or not they were born on the property) so I'd like to hunt my Gemsbok in the Kalahari and my Nyala in KZN etc. so that I try to capture the whole experience of hunting whatever species it was. That is prohibitively expensive for the average non-resident hunter. So I do realise however that this is not always practically or economically possible and if you are travelling half way around the world and you are pressed for time it will make sense to try to hunt what you want to in one or only a few areas.

Living in South Africa I have the benefit of meeting my criteria more easily, although I possibly won't always and that in and of itself potentially won't prevent me from taking a good trophy that was introduced (as long as it is "wild" based on the above tests which I of course acknowledge are all my own).

All of that said, I'd certainly try to avoid put and take situations altogether as far as possible if alternatives were reasonably within my reach. This is like much of hunting; you need to decide yourself with what you are comfortable.

The most important thing here is to understand what you are dealing with. in other words make sure that you as the hunter have all the information that matters to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
stewart,
I see you've been properly welcomed to the AR pile on. That bottom Sable is a fine looking bull, he represents himself as a larger bull than 36 inches. I shot a 37 inch bull with Fairgame in Zambia in 2005 I think.

If it is what you want to hunt, where you want to hunt and how you want to hunt piss on the rest, go do it. 5000 dollars seems just fine. Enjoy your safari.

Steve

+ 1
I personally dont care BUT AR Hunting memebrs each to his own, each has his own budget not everyone can hunt every year in the Best concessions Africa has to offer.
Why belittle somoene for their hunting choice ??

quote:

Posted 29 March 2012 20:31 Hide Post
Well, at this point I guess I have enough input to feel like the $5,000 trophy fee is a pretty good deal. There are some other factors in play here that I did not initially disclose: we are getting a heck of a deal on the daily rate and some credits on the total trophy fees up front so when trying to compare this offer to a sable in another country - with a higher daily rate and lower trophy fee - it is not an apples and apples comparrison.

mate why ask for opinions when you only give some of the factors in play??????
nothing against taking of animals that you "know" the history of, but please provide full info before asking opinions!!!!

Why didn't I disclose more info?? The other information was irrelavent with regard to the original question. I never asked about going to another country or shooting a sable in a different place. Some people that replied did not read the question or answer the question. The original question was. "what should I expect to pay for a 36 inch sable in RSA?"

Instead of answering the question, I got bashed by some here. Interestingly, I have received several PM's by members here almost apologizing for the comments made by others!! I started this thread and asked for a price opinion on a sable and instead got a lot of opinion but not really on the price. The other info regarding the daily rate, etc was irrelevant to my question. You ask what is the price.

You ask what is the price and instead of an answer, you get lectured. WOW! Some people here are intense!!

mstewart44
You will find that certain subjects tend to push peoples hot buttons. Canned hunting is one of them. Some of the information that you supplied, photos of the specific sables available for instance, imply that the hunt that you are contemplating fits the description of a canned hunt. That is the reason for the reaction that you got. Generally this site provides a wealth of knowledge, in fact you did get answers to your specific question, but if you touch on certain subjects you can expect to get some impassioned responses. Lion hunting in RSA is also one of those areas.

If the you are aware of the costs and conditions and are satisfied, enjoy your hunt and the ensuing trophies.

quote:

Originally posted by mstewart44:
Then I guess you would also frown on lion hunting in RSA?? That must not be hunting either?

oh boy.....I would be trying to delete that comment. Or would be registering under a new name promptly.

When they provide you with a photograph, taken beforehand at a live game auction, showing your prospective "quarry" standing in a pen - as they have done in this case - you can be certain that what you'll be doing is not hunting.

It's finding and shooting.

But if you understand and are willing to live with that, and if that's what you want to pay your $5,000 for, then by no means allow anyone to talk you out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
When they provide you with a photograph, taken beforehand at a live game auction, showing your prospective "quarry" standing in a pen - as they have done in this case - you can be certain that what you'll be doing is not hunting.

It's finding and shooting.

But if you understand and are willing to live with that, and if that's what you want to pay your $5,000 for, then by no means allow anyone to talk you out of it.

MR,
I understand and appreciate your passion, however, I would venture to guess that most, if not all of us have at some point hunted on a put and take concession of some kind.

Based on that, the only thing different about this sable hunt is that Stewart knows and understands the circumstances prior to arrival.

I hunted in RSA and Africa for the first time in 98. (I think)I was standing in the skinning shed one night having a cold one, a semi truck drove by with a load of zebra, It was then that what I thought was confirmed.

Steve

In this day and age when many set game cameras out to take pictures of what's hitting the bait tree some are fussing over a man who has an opportunity at a cull quality sable?



Marc, shoot the one with tips and decent mass. I'd recommend archery tackle at a water hole for him. Have a good time! Then spend some money on a quality taxidermy mount of your trophy.

Ann,
funny you brinhg trail camera's up. I think the comparison is valid. I think the use of trail camera's is "less fair chase" than is concession hunting.

That said, I have not and would not push my personal beliefs on their use upon any other sportsman.

Steve

mstewart ,
welcome to the forum , and congratulations in taking your first steps towards what will be i am sure your first of many wonderful african safaris - you are starting at a point where many many hunters start and you will have great fun progressing through the steps-

one thing i will say is that it appears that you know exactly what you are getting into as far as the experience and nature of the operation and that in itself suggests you are dealing with an upstanding outfit - and that there will be no "nasty surprises"

well done again and go enjoy yourself ,

regards

Terry R, I can appreciate that people have hot buttons. Everyone has a position when it comes to certain things like religion, politics, gun control, capital punishment, and I guess “put and take” hunting. But I have never, and I mean NEVER in my life tried to put down, bash, criticize, humiliate, or embarrass another person for THEIR beliefs. I have my core beliefs and I stand by them firmly but I do not push my agenda on others the way many of the people on this forum like to do. You may think you are RIGHT, but that doesn’t influence MY trip, the way I choose to hunt, or how I will spend my money.

Mac, I threw the lion hunting comment out there because I knew it would be throwing gas on an already hot fire. I almost posted that I was going to sneak up on that sable while he was in that pen and take him with my knife but I’m sure that would only cause more shit to stink. I do not intend to delete the lion hunting post nor am I going to change my log in. Honestly, no I don’t want to debate lion hunting in RSA. There are no winners in that debate, only opinions. This thread was not intended to get the opinion of whether “put and take” hunting was moral or ethical. All I was after was a price opinion. What I found was a bunch of opinionated people. And then there’s the guy whose call sign is Express Rifles who suggests (in his cartoon post with the cannon) it would be best to shoot me!! Really?? In spite of all that, I am satisfied with the few answers that were received and I have made a decision about how I will spend MY money during MY safari. Ann, I like your suggestion!!

Michael Robinson, it may be “finding and shooting” in your opinion but I see no difference in that and stalking around the deer woods looking for a big buck you have seen on a trail camera. You know he’s there. You hope to find him so you can shoot him. All the same in my book.

Steve (Ngana) – I have spoken to the American booking agent several times about the upcoming hunt. He told me that many times they buy animals and place them on the ranch that are never found or taken. I have no problem with “put and take” hunting. You still have to find your quarry over several thousand acres. You may or may not find your animal. I chased gemsbok for three days in 2008 on one ranch and never got a shot. We saw them plenty, but could not get the wind right, couldn’t get them in the open, etc. I am sure they were “put” there to be hunted but they out foxed us for several days. Just because the animal was “put” there does not mean you will “take” him. If there are those of you who do not want to hunt in this way, then go your own direction but don't ride my back because we disagree.

Thanks to those of you who recognize the “pile on” as someone put it and stood up to those who think theirs is the only opinion that matters. I don’t think in my entire life have I seen anything like this but I don’t frequent this forum all that often either. I actually have a life away from this forum and probably won’t ever post enough to get the label “one of us.” Lots of abuse thrown around on this forum but I guess if you know it all, then you better spread the word to those who are uninformed.

You all have a good one, I have to get ready to go hunting in a few weeks.

Stewart,
Most excellent response, I hope you don't missunderstand my comments, as I am totally 100 percent in support of you hunting whatever you want your way. I was simply stating that you know going in whats up.

There IS a pack mentality here and it has driven off many, many good posters with solid international experience. Forum dynamics suck.

The good old days:2002Zimbabwe-Did a 14day package hunt for free range animals.44"sable,54"
kudu ,impala,warthog,tesseebee,warthog,wildabeste AND leopard.$8900 See spring issue of Dallas Safari Game trails Magazine.If you like the deal you found on the sable,Do It my friend its
your money!!

Steve is right about the pack mentality on here. That's why some of use don't post hunt reports anymore. Go have a great time. Any time spent in Africa is great.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Stewart,
Most excellent response, I hope you don't missunderstand my comments, as I am totally 100 percent in support of you hunting whatever you want your way. I was simply stating that you know going in whats up.

There IS a pack mentality here and it has driven off many, many good posters with solid international experience. Forum dynamics suck.

I look forward to your hunt report, enjoy your trip.

I'm amused that once Ivan Carter post's in support, all the sycophants with their smug KIA comments cease to criticize the OP.

Pathetic and transparent behavior.

I do not see anything related to a mob mentality, just people with opinions and comments. Even on forums with high levels of moderation, it is not possible to control the discussion. People are not ganging up on you, nor was the bazooka emoticon meant to be "shooting you". Go and have fun on your hunt.

Mr Nganga please consider seeking out and talking to a professional, assuming you are not already under the care of a MHP.

quote:

Originally posted by mstewart44:
You ask what is the price and instead of an answer, you get lectured. WOW! Some people here are intense!!

What do expect when you post photos of animals captured and kept in a tiny compound?

It is your hunt, and if that si what you want to shoot, go right ahead and do it.

quote:

Originally posted by noreaster:
I do not see anything related to a mob mentality, just people with opinions and comments. Even on forums with high levels of moderation, it is not possible to control the discussion. People are not ganging up on you, nor was the bazooka emoticon meant to be "shooting you". Go and have fun on your hunt.

Mr Nganga please consider seeking out and talking to a professional, assuming you are not already under the care of a MHP.

Why,
Just because I have pointed out the truth? Read the posts before Ivan Carters, then see how many "pot shots" are taken afterwards. I in fact may be a phsyco but I saw no one else stepping forward to assist a fellow sportsman with a legit thread.

Sable in a box. How unique?

Bit like expensive chocolate.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by noreaster:
I do not see anything related to a mob mentality, just people with opinions and comments. Even on forums with high levels of moderation, it is not possible to control the discussion. People are not ganging up on you, nor was the bazooka emoticon meant to be "shooting you". Go and have fun on your hunt.

Mr Nganga please consider seeking out and talking to a professional, assuming you are not already under the care of a MHP.

Why,
Just because I have pointed out the truth? Read the posts before Ivan Carters, then see how many "pot shots" are taken afterwards. I in fact may be a phsyco but I saw no one else stepping forward to assist a fellow sportsman with a legit thread.

Legit is one opinion. Personally, I think it portrays hunters and hunting in a bad light. Sorry, but that is my opinion. Others may disagree. That is why ethics are not carved in stone.

quote:

Michael Robinson, it may be “finding and shooting” in your opinion but I see no difference in that and stalking around the deer woods looking for a big buck you have seen on a trail camera. You know he’s there. You hope to find him so you can shoot him. All the same in my book.

No, there is a big difference. The whitetail that gets photographed may or may not be in the same area when you go to hunt him. However, that sable will be there - the fence will make sure of that. The fact that you pick out which one you want before the hunt says all I need to know. You are free to do what you want, but please don't call it hunting and please don't try and equate it with fair chase.

"Michael Robinson, it may be 'finding and shooting' in your opinion but I see no difference in that and stalking around the deer woods looking for a big buck you have seen on a trail camera. You know he’s there. You hope to find him so you can shoot him. All the same in my book."

This statement is rediculous, bordering on obscene. That buck in the woods has grown to be old by being wise, and knowing how to evade hunters. If he wises up to you, he can leave the area, the county, the state...and certainly never be seen again.

The sable you are shooting (not hunting) has no such built up intelligence, cannot leave the area, and is not subject to many outside factors. Other hunters will not shoot him. He will not be eaten by coyotes (or lions, although I imagine they keep those in separate pens).

You will not need to pattern your sable to be successful. You will simply drive around the concession until you find him, take a few steps off the truck, and shoot him. I personally do not understand why you would choose to shoot this sable over an impala.

I understand and indeed support the choice to shoot how you want, as long as it is legal. But please, call it what it is.